Thoughts on the Non-backwards Compatibility of New Masks?

[Seaborgium]

I'm relatively optimistic about the reboot. One of the strong points of the new Toa are(with one or two exceptions) the mask designs. However, as we all know by now the masks are not compatible with Gen1 heads. I understand why a change in system might be called for, but I do wish that the new masks could be used for Gen1 Bionicles, and that I could put Gen1 masks on Gen2 toa.

 

So anyway, what are all of your thoughts on the new mack system and it's lack of compatibility?

[UngluedBike]

Unacceptable. They could have put an axle on the masks, and an axle hole on the head, problem solved.

[dotcom]

It's fine. We got far far worse cases when it came to lack of compatibility before (Hordika & Inika) and this new system at the least is very versatile since the masks can be used all over the place.

 

And anyway, it's not really like you can't use new masks for older stuff and older masks for new sets--you'd just have to also switch the heads. And let's be honest here, once the mask is on, how much difference does the head even make? Not that much! It's really a fairly minor issue, and the new system incorporates great design with a great function and great versatility in the way masks can now be used (plus, it's actually much more realistic, for a mask). I'm not bothered in the least, and with any hope this system will be here to stay.

[believe victims]

It bugs me a little because I like backwards compatibility with these things but it's not a game-changer or anything. (The connection is technically less versatile than the old connection, but it's still pretty useful, so it's fine.)

[Prime Axiom]

 It's better now. Now they feel like actual masks. 

[Zeb]

I love the new connection. The faces on the heads can finally have a full face with no weird mouth-thing, the connection points are more realistic for a mask, and the new masks' compatibility with Y-joints and a variety of parts with 2-stud-long axle holes makes it very versatile, especially as you can use the masks as armor fairly easily if you have a Y-joint. Sure, it's unfortunate that the new heads aren't compatible with old masks, but the new masks are backwards compatible with the HF Brain Attack heads. If you want to use an older axle mask, then use a Brain attack head (or whatever else you have). I mean, if you have an axle mask you probably have the head that goes with it. Well, unless you're a mask collector, in which case you probably have tons of masks with no heads to go with them. Also, it was worth the removal of the axle connection point on the new heads & masks, since we now have the lever function that launches masks. And also, like someone said earlier, the new masks are more backwards compatible than say, the Hordika or Inika masks.

 

Also, if you want to use an older head with newer torsos or vice versa, or if you have any info on that, I started a topic inquiring about the best ways to attach this head to that torso, or that head to this torso.

[Cambion]

i'm a bit disappointed, because i would have liked consistency (the axle connection worked just fine). honestly, though, it won't be a big deal once we come up with a way to use the new masks without using the new heads. it'll happen.

[Aanchir]

Unacceptable. They could have put an axle on the masks, and an axle hole on the head, problem solved.

No they couldn't have. It would have ruined both the aesthetics and function of the new head pieces.

 

Personally, I don't really care about the lack of backwards compatibility. The new heads and masks are fantastic designs in my opinion, and I haven't heard a single suggestion for how to make them backwards compatible that wouldn't spoil one of the factors I love about the new designs. Besides, as has been pointed out, the Toa Hordika and Toa Inika heads and masks were far worse as far as compatibility were concerned.

[Zeb]

i'm a bit disappointed, because i would have liked consistency (the axle connection worked just fine). honestly, though, it won't be a big deal once we come up with a way to use the new masks without using the new heads. it'll happen.

It already happened. They can attach to Y-joints, Brain Attack 2013 heads, standard CCBS hands, as well as even a 2-stud-long Technic pin. So the new masks have backwards compatibility, can function as armor when used with a Y-joint, and characters can hold the masks.

[Lyichir]

More and more these days I feel like backwards compatibility for masks is overrated. It's no huge burden to attach a head that IS compatible with older masks to a newer model if you're really desperate to use an old mask on it. And design-wise, it'd be pretty pointless for the designers to limit themselves to a ten-year-old standard attachment when a new connection method can allow for better looks and functionality. I might be a bit upset if the new heads are replaced within a year or two of the new theme's debut, but for now 2015 represents a fresh start for Bionicle and that's as good a time as any to change things up.

[Cambion]

 

i'm a bit disappointed, because i would have liked consistency (the axle connection worked just fine). honestly, though, it won't be a big deal once we come up with a way to use the new masks without using the new heads. it'll happen.

It already happened. They can attach to Y-joints, Brain Attack 2013 heads, standard CCBS hands, as well as even a 2-stud-long Technic pin. So the new masks have backwards compatibility, can function as armor when used with a Y-joint, and characters can hold the masks.

 

oh! alright then, awesome. do they work with Metru or Mata heads? seems like they'd fit onto Metrus at least.

[user-402520536]

I love the new connection. The faces on the heads can finally have a full face with no weird mouth-thing, the connection points are more realistic for a mask, and the new masks' compatibility with Y-joints and a variety of parts with 2-stud-long axle holes makes it very versatile, especially as you can use the masks as armor fairly easily if you have a Y-joint.

 

My thoughts EXACTLY.

[Lyichir]

 

 

i'm a bit disappointed, because i would have liked consistency (the axle connection worked just fine). honestly, though, it won't be a big deal once we come up with a way to use the new masks without using the new heads. it'll happen.

It already happened. They can attach to Y-joints, Brain Attack 2013 heads, standard CCBS hands, as well as even a 2-stud-long Technic pin. So the new masks have backwards compatibility, can function as armor when used with a Y-joint, and characters can hold the masks.

 

oh! alright then, awesome. do they work with Metru or Mata heads? seems like they'd fit onto Metrus at least.

 

No, they don't fit onto Metru heads. The only heads they fit on (other than the new ones) are Brain Attack heads, but they fit onto a number of non-head parts or constructions.

 

BZP really needs some sort of "Bionicle 2015 FAQ" topic. I feel like I've answered this question a dozen times...

[believe victims]

If you want to use an older axle mask, then use a Brain attack head

 

No, don't. I've seen this suggestion a million times and aesthetically it's a terrible suggestion. The BA head simply does not look good with a Bionicle mask on it. It both leaves most of the mask empty and usually leaves the bar on the back poking out the the chin (or, if you use it the other way, the entire bottom of the head.) Even the Glatorian head looks better with an old mask on it (and even then I don't recommend that either.)

 

Also I find it interesting that two people have mentioned Hordika and Inika masks as if A. nobody complained about those (especially the latter) and B. a flaw existing in the old iteration means it cannot possibly be criticized in the new one (which is something that really bugs me because it implies all criticisms are based in nostalgia)

Edited November 12, 2014 by Lucina

[Zeb]

 

If you want to use an older axle mask, then use a Brain attack head

 

No, don't. I've seen this suggestion a million times and aesthetically it's a terrible suggestion. The BA head simply does not look good with a Bionicle mask on it. It both leaves most of the mask empty and usually leaves the bar on the back poking out the the chin (or, if you use it the other way, the entire bottom of the head.) Even the Glatorian head looks better with an old mask on it (and even then I don't recommend that either.)

 

Also I find it interesting that two people have mentioned Hordika and Inika masks as if A. nobody complained about those (especially the latter) and B. a flaw existing in the old iteration means it cannot possibly be criticized in the new one (which is something that really bugs me because it implies all criticisms are based in nostalgia)

 

Well then fine, don't use a Brain Attack head. Use a Metru or Mata head. (There are plenty of techniques for attaching those to a new torso. I even have a topic about it right now.) And like I've said before, if you have an old mask you probably have its corresponding head. And I added that the new masks/head were better at backwards compatibility than those 2 heads & masks to show it was at the least better than those were, meaning even if you look at the worst perspective, the head could've been worse. I know people didn't really like those heads. (I thought the Inika masks were interesting, but they were totally out of place with the other masks and could be used for almost nothing other than just masks.) And besides, if the designers had put an axle on the new head it would have ruined the otherwise perfect look it has. The axle/stud connections on the older Mata & Metru heads were ok, but it did make the heads look a little weird. And when you think about it, the more you try to be backwards compatible, the more you limit yourself. Giving the masks the ability to attach to a Y-joint, hand, 2013 head, etc. was well worth the loss of axle/stud connections.

[fishers64]

The problem with limiting backwards head compatibility is the loss of variety in eye color. While all of my sets save good old Norik are CCBS torsos that will easily fit with the new heads, the lack of compatibility with the two Glatorian heads I own...yeah.

 

And while connecting a Metru Head to CCBS is easy enough, the problem comes when you want to connect a Glatorian/Bionicle 2015 head to a Metru torso. I know of no part to fix that. 

 

(Won't more kids these days have more CCBS torsos? That's been around since 2011 - there's plenty in the wild.)

Edited November 12, 2014 by fishers64

[believe victims]

And while connecting a Metru Head to CCBS is easy enough, the problem comes when you want to connect a Glatorian/Bionicle 2015 head to a Metru torso. I know of no part to fix that. 

 

seems like a pretty good piece for that job

 

if it's too long a slightly more complex solution could be made to work with these pieces.

[Aanchir]

 

And while connecting a Metru Head to CCBS is easy enough, the problem comes when you want to connect a Glatorian/Bionicle 2015 head to a Metru torso. I know of no part to fix that.

 

seems like a pretty good piece for that job

 

if it's too long a slightly more complex solution could be made to work with these pieces.

 

Another simple solution to use one of these and one of these instead of a Y-joint and a cross axle. That should work just fine for Toa Metru builds.

 

The proportions will be altered slightly because the neck of the new head piece is half a module longer than the neck of a Toa Metru head, but considering that about half of the sets with Toa Metru torsos (Nokama, Nuju, Lhikan, Norik, and Iruini) would be half a module taller than this solution and the other half (Vakama, Onewa Matau, and Whenua) would be half a module shorter, it should serve just fine as a happy medium between those two.

[Banana Gunz]

It's a little upsetting but it's not the end of the world. Swapping out the heads can be annoying, but not very difficult at all.

[dotcom]

 

Also I find it interesting that two people have mentioned Hordika and Inika masks as if A. nobody complained about those (especially the latter) and B. a flaw existing in the old iteration means it cannot possibly be criticized in the new one (which is something that really bugs me because it implies all criticisms are based in nostalgia)

 

I personally only brought up those masks as a way to say that it really could have been worse, (obviously people complained about those, and rightfully so, because even ignoring their lack of compatibility with other heads, they were almost useless in every way) and to point out that a surprising amount of the original Bionicle's masks were not compatible with what most think about when they refer to "Gen 1" heads. Compared to the issues with those masks, the lack of backwards compatibility (which is frankly debatable as a real flaw) is pretty inconsequential, and really hardly even comparable.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Eh, it's been 5 years. it would have been nice to have some sort of axle but if the designers felt like the new design was better for the mask flipping gimmick than I can see why they'd remove it. Plus, you can always just replace the head altogether, like you had to with Inika masks back in 06.

 

-NotS

Edited November 13, 2014 by Nidhiki of the Shadows

[Blueblur21]

There is no reason for masks to be backwards compatible, especially since this is a reboot. Everything is new, and so are the masks. You have 5000+ masks to choose from in 9000 different colors from the old generation. Use those. 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Blueblur21

[Voltex]

There is no reason for masks to be backwards compatible, especially sine this is a reboot. 

 

That's basically my opinion on this question as well. I don't need them (or expect them) to be backwards compatible, because it's a reboot and it's been five years.

Besides, the new heads and mask connections look really cool. I'm happy to see them.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I'm fine with the Masks not being compatible with Gen 1 Bionicle heads. I don't usually switch around Masks on my sets. I usually build them and don't take them apart unless I'm making a combiner model from the sets. And as others have said, one can switch the heads around if they did want to put Gen 2 Masks on older Bionicle sets.

[Sad-Machine]

I personally have mixed feelings about it,I dislike the fact we will have limited masks for mocing.But I appreciate that Lego is trying to start complety fresh with this,I just hope they release mask packs to give MOCers more variety with masks.

[bioniclepluslotr]

Want to use old masks? Use old head.

[Munty]

Backwards compatibility would've been nice... But purely to serve those of us hit heaviest with nostalgia. Otherwise I can't think of a single reason why TLG would ever have considered making the masks axle compatible over trying something new, functional and exciting (though I don't really like the play feature myself ) We're moving forward with these new sets, no point getting bogged down with past successes. That's the sort of thing that lumbered us with half a decade of Inika torso builds...

 

And of course as has been mentioned numerous times, we can always just use the old heads...

Edited November 17, 2014 by Munty

[J46 Nui]

The new heads are easily put on the old sets, with maybe a swapping of an additional piece, and there are old-mask compatible heads that can attach to the new sets' bodies, so I don't really have any problem with these. Plus, having an actual face under the mask is really great and makes up for it.

[bioniclefan123456]

Im not exactly optimistic about it, but If they are anything like knights kingdom, then I suppose there is some backwards compatibility...

[masterchirox580]

Does it really matter, I mean do people complain about the metru heads not being backwards compatible, no, well why should people complain about this, not to mention there's always the power of sellotape. And I personally like the new system, the old masks would normally have a hole where the connection point was which looked a little weird, now it's gone and there are no holes in the masks. 

[Ektris]

Of course I am disappointed. But given this is a fresh start, what was the need?

 

~|ET|~

[Aanchir]

Im not exactly optimistic about it, but If they are anything like knights kingdom, then I suppose there is some backwards compatibility...

They're much better than Knights' Kingdom visors, because unlike those which could hardly attach to anything, the new masks can attach to all sorts of things. The new masks can literally attach directly to a Technic Y-joint (any type; they attach particularly securely to the classic ones) or a 2M Technic pin. Basically anything 2M wide with a hole on each side, unless it has something sticking off the front or sides that would collide with the inside of the mask.