Bionicle 2015 vs Bionicle 2001?

[Toa of Gallifrey]

 

 

For me the question is if it will ever surpass 2008 (which I have hopes that it will).

 

Well, for starters the color schemes are one hundred times more vibrant and interesting than anything produced in 2008, and the Toa Mata actually look like themselves. I'd say it's well on its way to surpassing 2008, if it hasn't already.

 

Just to make a quick clarification that I don't mean the sets. while I liked them, they're hardly my favorites (that'd be 2004 and 2007 which I already consider 2015 to be just as good and probably better), I meant the story. Even then that's for comparison to the climax year of this gen.

 

 

[Aanchir]

Here's my two cents on the whole "2015 Toa have weaknesses makes them better".

 

First off, all that we have seen is that the Toa have little quirks added purly for comedy, not to give them "flaws" to overcome, so in my opinion, this has no bearing on wether or not 2015 Toa are any better.

I think it's too early to assume that the flaws of the Toa are JUST for comedy. I see potential for a lot of different kinds of storytelling in those flaws. Sort of like Zane's stoic attitude and humorlessness in LEGO Ninjago. Even just in one episode (Episode 2, "Home"), there are some moments when those quirky traits are played entirely for laughs, and other moments when you really sympathize with Zane over how much trouble he has fitting in with the rest of his team.

 

And I don't want them to be "flaws to overcome", necessarily. I don't just want Kopaka to stop being clumsy or Tahu to stop being forgetful or Onua to stop being lethargic. They can maybe improve on these things in small measures, but more importantly than that, I want them to learn to tolerate one another's weaknesses, acknowledge their own weaknesses, and count on each other to help them through those weaknesses.

 

I think this will send a much better message for kids. You don't get to simply decide what challenges you face in real life, and they don't simply go away as soon as you acknowledge them. As a learning-disabled person, I know this from experience. But by creating a support network you can make facing those challenges a lot easier.

 

Even if the writers don't choose to take these things in that direction, though, even giving the characters more humorous traits makes them more interesting to me than placing them on a lofty pedestal and constantly treating them with the utmost seriousness.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Aanchir

[Spiffy247]

Aanchir, I can relate with your learning disability. I have mental disorders. So I know exactly what you are talking about.

[abstractAgamid]

 

 

 

2015's characterization is far more dumbed-down than G1, for now at least, which makes it worse.

Currently I have to disagree. Even though we haven't seen much of them, the new Toa are already more complex than the original ones, with actual weaknesses other than just attitude problems. If you're referring to the Protectors, we've hardly seen them at all, so I think it's a bit early to judge.

 

Sleepiness and having no sense of humor are more character flaws than weaknesses, really (although there is some potential with some of the others, yet to be reached).

 

I'll have a greater chance of seeing an interesting character if I wait for the villains, though.

 

Flaws, weaknesses, what's the difference? Though I didn't want to say "flaws" because it would imply that a clumsy or lethargic person is "flawed" rather than that just being a part of who they are. Either way, they add more depth to the characters than them just being perfect in every way except for always wanting to do everything by themselves.

 

 

 

Sleepiness and clumsiness aren't really personality flaws. An interesting character weakness is something created by the personality. Clumsiness and sleepiness are just weaknesses of the body. They can be made into symptoms of personality flaws: Clumsiness can be the result of a lack of restraint, while sleepiness can be the result of perfectionist overworking or a lack of self-control. However, neither on the traits their own really adds depth to the characters.

That is like saying a physical or mental disability doesn't add depth to a character. And I would argue the contrary. That kind of trait doesn't have to be a RESULT of the personality to AFFECT the personality. A person who lives their life with a physical limitation will be a different person than somebody who lived their life without said limitation. Just look at Toph from Avatar: The Last Airbender. Her blindness is a defining character trait. It's the reason she learned Earthbending from the badger-moles, which is part of why she became a master Earthbender in the first place. And if it weren't for her blindness, she wouldn't have been subject to the kind of pity and coddling that gave her such a willful and rebellious personality.

 

Likewise, let's look at Kopaka. He's clumsy, probably due to a lack of coordination. And even if that doesn't on its own make him a complex character, the way he RESPONDS to that limitation does. Instead of just acknowledging that aspect of himself, he is ashamed of his clumsiness. He tries to cover it up in order to put on a show of perfection. That already makes him a more complex character than he was in 2001, in my opinion, because his actual self-image becomes important to his characterization.

 

I have a feeling his character development will involve learning to relax that pride and acknowledge his own limitations.

 

Well, yes, I didn't mean it as "inferior", but they really seem to be tacked-on and more... childish(not in a positive way)? You can see it from the style the character bios were written in. It's as if they were trying really hard to include more people.

 

Although, you did have some interesting traits in G1 heroes, like Nuju's anti-social tendencies and the whole Onu-/Ko-Matoran past/future conflict. (I do agree that it would be nice to see some more different flaws.)

 

Oh, and I also pretty much agree with your stance on "overcoming" flaws, I generally don't find characters ascending to a universal "best form" very interesting.

Edited January 8, 2015 by abstractAgamid

[Aanchir]

Well, yes, I didn't mean it as "inferior", but they really seem to be tacked-on and more... childish(not in a positive way)? You can see it from the style the character bios were written in. It's as if they were trying really hard to include more people.

 

Although, you did have some interesting traits in G1 heroes, like Nuju's anti-social tendencies and the whole Onu-/Ko-Matoran past/future conflict. (I do agree that it would be nice to see some more different flaws.)

 

Oh, and I also pretty much agree with your stance on "overcoming" flaws, I generally don't find characters ascending to a universal "best form" very interesting.

Yes, starting in 2004 I feel like classic BIONICLE did get better about coming up with better sources of conflict for its characters than just the bickering the Toa Mata were prone to. Like you mention, the Toa Metru got in disagreements over real cultural differences. It was interesting to see how despite living together in one city, the Matoran of Metru Nui were considerably more divided on a cultural level than those on Mata Nui. Never on Mata Nui did we hear the kind of scorn the Toa Metru had for one another's professions or cultures. But over time the Toa Metru learned to appreciate one another's different backgrounds and ways of thinking.

 

On a side note, I think the 2004 storyline also did a good job by sending the Toa off in pairs or groups of three for certain quests, so that not all their achievements had to be either as individuals or as a team of six. Those moments when the team was split up into smaller groups were a great chance to explore the chemistry between different characters, and I hope that once the 2015 Toa finally meet each other they might have opportunities to bond with one another in this fashion.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Aanchir

[Xarok]

 

For me the question is if it will ever surpass 2008 (which I have hopes that it will).

 

Well, for starters the color schemes are one hundred times more vibrant and interesting than anything produced in 2008, and the Toa Mata actually look like themselves. I'd say it's well on its way to surpassing 2008, if it hasn't already.

 

I remember being pretty disillusioned by the 2008 Toa. I enjoyed Lewa and Tahu's revamps, but I will say I prefer the 2015 Toa over the 2008 ones.

[Spiffy247]

 

 

For me the question is if it will ever surpass 2008 (which I have hopes that it will).

 

Well, for starters the color schemes are one hundred times more vibrant and interesting than anything produced in 2008, and the Toa Mata actually look like themselves. I'd say it's well on its way to surpassing 2008, if it hasn't already.

 

I remember being pretty disillusioned by the 2008 Toa. I enjoyed Lewa and Tahu's revamps, but I will say I prefer the 2015 Toa over the 2008 ones.

 

I think I like all the 2015 Toa more than I like all the 2008 Toa.

[Kaxix]

It seems now the Toa are more prepared to fight their enemies than they were in 2001. We don't know too much about them story-wise, but as sets they have armour and weapons that the Toa Mata didn't have. 

The animations are good and fun to watch, but I still prefer the CGI.

However, I think we should wait at least six months to obtain more information.

[fishers64]

However, I think we should wait at least six months to obtain more information.

Nah, I think we should get more 2015 information before that. If I have to wait a whole six months, I'm going to be disappointed. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by fishers64

[Irrie]

 

 

 

For me the question is if it will ever surpass 2008 (which I have hopes that it will).

 

Well, for starters the color schemes are one hundred times more vibrant and interesting than anything produced in 2008, and the Toa Mata actually look like themselves. I'd say it's well on its way to surpassing 2008, if it hasn't already.

 

I remember being pretty disillusioned by the 2008 Toa. I enjoyed Lewa and Tahu's revamps, but I will say I prefer the 2015 Toa over the 2008 ones.

 

I think I like all the 2015 Toa more than I like all the 2008 Toa.

 

I like them both. They were each unique, the 2008 Toa having very creative weapons and an awesome silver/gunmetal-based color scheme, and the 2015 Toa drawing aspects of dual-function weapons and gearboxes. 

[Latrodectus]

2008 is the year of grey and silver. So many grey and silver Inika builds... *shiver*

[Kaxix]

 

However, I think we should wait at least six months to obtain more information.

Nah, I think we should get more 2015 information before that. If I have to wait a whole six months, I'm going to be disappointed. 

 

I meant we should give to the new Bionicle the same time the old had in 2001 to develop some story.

Of course we are going to get something more before the end of that period.

[boston100]

Personally i think nothing can top 2001. I loved the simple animation and the lack of cheesy characters. Yes, i know it had its bad moments but overall i think it was amazing.

and of course the fact that kopaka, the coolest hero ever, is now clumsy ( just ruins the image of a stoic, elegant hero to me) kinda puts me off 2015. Yes i guess its good that the to a have flaws, but did the have to make kopeck clumsy? couldn't they just make him to proud or to independent  him being clumsy just ruins it for me

[Dark709]

I don't think anything can top the original Bionicle. But maybe this new Bionicle storyline will somehow be tied into the old one (perhaps this one takes place on a different Magna).

[Lyichir]

I don't think anything can top the original Bionicle. But maybe this new Bionicle storyline will somehow be tied into the old one (perhaps this one takes place on a different Magna).

See, I just can't even comprehend why people are so desperate for there to be a connection.

 

If the new Bionicle is better than the classic one (as I suspect it eventually will be), then why would you want to connect it to the old one? If it can tell a great story without all the baggage the old canon entails, then it's better off standing on its own.

 

But even if the new Bionicle's story pales in comparison to the classic Bionicle, it has nothing to gain by being connected to the old story. It won't just get better by osmosis if they tie it back to the original canon! If anything, a sub-par reboot being tied back to the original will just further taint the classic story the same way postmortem retcons have been doing since the theme ended. The classic story is a closed book, and continuing to paste additions on to the end of it isn't going to improve anything.

 

For better or for worse, the old Bionicle story is over. It's long past time to accept that and move on.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Lyichir

[hiddenderek]

I don't have much confidence in the story so far. All there is is a few cheaply animated 30 second shorts with one guy voicing everything. Will there be shorts longer than a minute (maybe like, at least 4 or 5) with actual conversations between the toa? If all that's going to be produced is just some mini shorts and a book that would be really dissapointing for me.

[Lyichir]

I don't have much confidence in the story so far. All there is is a few cheaply animated 30 second shorts with one guy voicing everything. Will there be shorts longer than a minute (maybe like, at least 4 or 5) with actual conversations between the toa? If all that's going to be produced is just some mini shorts and a book that would be really dissapointing for me.

At the NYCC panel we were told they'd all be around 90 seconds. But we were also told there would be a LOT over the course of the year. And yes, they're all going to be voiced by the same guy. Wish people would get over that already.

 

As for books, we don't know how many there will be or what they'll entail. Just that there will be some.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Lyichir

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Yeah we only have 4 animations right now but the Toa haven't retrieved their golden masks or fought the Lord of Skull Spiders yet! Lots of time before summer and I'm sure they will continue into the second half of the year as well. Lots of time for story!

 

-NotS 

[Lyichir]

Yeah we only have 4 animations right now but the Toa haven't retrieved their golden masks or fought the Lord of Skull Spiders yet! Lots of time before summer and I'm sure they will continue into the second half of the year as well. Lots of time for story!

 

-NotS

More to the point—the Toa haven't even met one another yet. Until that happens the story has hardly even started.

[Devak]

As someone who is a lot older and wiser now, i can say this: 

 

Lego threw us a MASSIVE bone by putting effort into honoring the old fans. They could've put out something only Bionicle in name, but decided to partially recreate that old feeling, while appealing to the new.

 

I like the more varied color schemes. I never was truly a fan of the Hero Factory type build, but i can understand why Lego uses it. The translucency on the Protectors is a very cool feature.

 

Some  things i like:

 

*lego has combined various good things. The original story with fresh details, old heroes with new looks, old unique design choices with new means (e.g. the various poses, color combinations in new ways).

*respect for the original BIONICLE line.

*there is already a sense of who's who and why. If i recall correctly 2001 started with mostly "what is going on here?". 2015 starts off strong, but it obviously misses the extreme depth and richness of the old Bionicle. But the year is young. 

*A richer colorscheme. This is really something that needs to be said. Especially the Earth and Stone sets -to my memory- suffered perpetually from this.The neon green and the purple look like good additions. 

 

Some things i don't like:

*Inconsistent Metalcolor. The gold on Tahu and Kopaka looks really, really good and makes them almost polar (heh) opposites. Opposing elements with the "hero" look. But then it breaks down. Onua uses purple *YAY!*, orange *YAY!* and gold and silver (huh?). I would've preferred a slightly more rigid coloring. More on this below.

*lack of character for the protectors. I liked the names of the Turaga, but now it's just "protector of X". I would like this explored.

*lack of character for the villains. The spiders remind me of the Visorak, but even the Visorak had more character than these spiders. 

 

 

As to colors:

As i said, i liked the gold/white and gold/red colors on Kopaka resp. Tahu. Lewa has a cool Green/orange/Gunmetal scheme going on (with some weird silver if i read the review right). These are definitely improvements over the 2001 sets. 

Onua is a weird mess of colors, and i don't like it. I would've prefered if the Silver was reserved for Earth and Water, and gunmetal for Jungle and Rock. (NOTE: maybe gunmetal for Earth and silver for Rock). So simply put: a more straightforward Color-coding.

 

I feel that the alternate weapon modes are a strong aspect of '15 bionicle, better than the limited abilities of the '01 toa. 

 

 

All in all, the year is off to a strong start. The biggest flaw is the lack of a proper, rich villain. Makuta (sorry Teridax, but your mythical status could never live up to another name) is without a doubt still one of the most iconic villains i know. But in here he's just a background character. The spider is nice, but i felt Bionicle became stronger when the richer villains (or in some cases, just plain opponents) came into play in stead of the Goons. 

[Aanchir]

The gold on Tahu and Kopaka looks really, really good and makes them almost polar (heh) opposites. Opposing elements with the "hero" look. But then it breaks down. Onua uses purple *YAY!*, orange *YAY!* and gold and silver (huh?). I would've preferred a slightly more rigid coloring. More on this below.

Onua doesn't use any orange... did you mean black?

 

As to colors:

As i said, i liked the gold/white and gold/red colors on Kopaka resp. Tahu. Lewa has a cool Green/orange/Gunmetal scheme going on (with some weird silver if i read the review right). These are definitely improvements over the 2001 sets. 

Onua is a weird mess of colors, and i don't like it. I would've prefered if the Silver was reserved for Earth and Water, and gunmetal for Jungle and Rock. (NOTE: maybe gunmetal for Earth and silver for Rock). So simply put: a more straightforward Color-coding.

Slight correction: Lewa and Pohatu use Silver Metallic rather than Titanium Metallic ("gunmetal") for their armor. The only gunmetal parts in those sets are Lewa's axe blades and Pohatu's boomerangs. Gali is actually the only Toa who has Titanium Metallic armor, and she uses it in combination with Silver Metallic — but it's more effective than you might expect.

 

Surprisingly, I have yet to see any photos from anybody who's swapped Onua's Warm Gold armor pieces with Silver Metallic ones. I'd expect that to be one of the first things a person might do to improve his color scheme if they felt it was too busy. I for one am very interested in seeing what that would look like.

[Blueblur21]

 

Yeah we only have 4 animations right now but the Toa haven't retrieved their golden masks or fought the Lord of Skull Spiders yet! Lots of time before summer and I'm sure they will continue into the second half of the year as well. Lots of time for story!

 

-NotS

More to the point—the Toa haven't even met one another yet. Until that happens the story has hardly even started.

 

Maybe this time I'll get my Kopaka/Gali love story. 

[Xabla]

I love 2001 but there was one thing 2015 did better: eye sockets/brain piece. Broke a nail trying to get one out. No wonder why no one every uses them alone on MOCs.

[Irrie]

I love 2001 but there was one thing 2015 did better: eye sockets/brain piece. Broke a nail trying to get one out. No wonder why no one every uses them alone on MOCs.

http://www.bzpower.com/story.php?ID=186

It's still a grueling process. 

[Latrodectus]

I love 2001 but there was one thing 2015 did better: eye sockets/brain piece. Broke a nail trying to get one out. No wonder why no one every uses them alone on MOCs.

On the minus side, the eyes don't shine very well under light. The main reason is the red axle piece; I think making it out of clear plastic would fit the issue. 

[Nescent]

I love 2001 but there was one thing 2015 did better: eye sockets/brain piece. Broke a nail trying to get one out. No wonder why no one every uses them alone on MOCs.

http://www.bzpower.com/story.php?ID=186

It's still a grueling process. 

They're not so hard to remove if you have the Thornatus V6. Grab this piece, place the head in between the liftarms, and slide an axle through one of the pinholes into the brain's axle hole. Then you can grip the huge Technic piece, and pull on the head to pop it out. I did get a couple of bend marks doing this though.

[Devak]

 

The gold on Tahu and Kopaka looks really, really good and makes them almost polar (heh) opposites. Opposing elements with the "hero" look. But then it breaks down. Onua uses purple *YAY!*, orange *YAY!* and gold and silver (huh?). I would've preferred a slightly more rigid coloring. More on this below.

Onua doesn't use any orange... did you mean black?

 

As to colors:

As i said, i liked the gold/white and gold/red colors on Kopaka resp. Tahu. Lewa has a cool Green/orange/Gunmetal scheme going on (with some weird silver if i read the review right). These are definitely improvements over the 2001 sets. 

Onua is a weird mess of colors, and i don't like it. I would've prefered if the Silver was reserved for Earth and Water, and gunmetal for Jungle and Rock. (NOTE: maybe gunmetal for Earth and silver for Rock). So simply put: a more straightforward Color-coding.

Slight correction: Lewa and Pohatu use Silver Metallic rather than Titanium Metallic ("gunmetal") for their armor. The only gunmetal parts in those sets are Lewa's axe blades and Pohatu's boomerangs. Gali is actually the only Toa who has Titanium Metallic armor, and she uses it in combination with Silver Metallic — but it's more effective than you might expect.

 

Surprisingly, I have yet to see any photos from anybody who's swapped Onua's Warm Gold armor pieces with Silver Metallic ones. I'd expect that to be one of the first things a person might do to improve his color scheme if they felt it was too busy. I for one am very interested in seeing what that would look like.

 

Sorry, on second note i counted Gold twice (once as orange, once as gold).

 

As to the right metallic colors: i used the Characters page as a quick reference guide (i have seen the reviews though) and the colors are hard to tell apart from a quick glance. So i was just being too quick.

 

Yes, the double metallic (gunmetal boomerangs and axes vs silver armor) is weird on them, IMHO. And i think the gold looks weird on Onua. I would like to see a more coherent use of gunmetal vs silver. Maybe it's just me. I think the Lewa axes should've been silver (in line with the rest of his armor) and the Gali "axes" gunmetal (since her armor is indeed gunmetal. It's hard to see on the pictures). I think Pohatu with silver and Onua with gunmetal would've made a better overall color scheme. 

 

To further iterate: The Orange looks good on Lewa, but the yellow/orange on Gali looks horrible (and those red pins. yuck). Pohatu's burnt orange/brown color with the lime green actually looks very good, and i'm happy with it. It's a vast improvement. Tahu looks really cool, but given that he's had...what 5 sets now? the novelty has worn off. it's cool, but we-expected-this cool. 

 

 

BTW: i only found out about the reboot today, when i was looking at Minecraft lego (i love the delicious irony) and clicked, just for curiosity, at the "other brands" page.

 

to finish: i feel like buying all 6 sets and mixing and matching to fit it to my needs. also, for some reason, half the sets are cheaper than the other half....

Edited January 11, 2015 by Toa Devak: Toa of Energy

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

More to the point—the Toa haven't even met one another yet. Until that happens the story has hardly even started.

And I'm still convinced that these "silly" character quirks will be utilized to a great degree once they meet each other. Each Toa compliments another and I can't wait to see them interact!

 

-NotS

[Devak]

 

More to the point—the Toa haven't even met one another yet. Until that happens the story has hardly even started.

And I'm still convinced that these "silly" character quirks will be utilized to a great degree once they meet each other. Each Toa compliments another and I can't wait to see them interact!

 

-NotS

 

Yes, i would love to see a more in-depth team interaction than G1. Tahu seemed to grow up so fast. I'd like to see more Tahu VS Kopaka, each their own half of the team. Tahu trying to out-hero Kopaka and kopaka trying to out-perfectionist Tahu. 

 

But yea, we barely got story so far. I'm curious.

[Xabla]

 

More to the point—the Toa haven't even met one another yet. Until that happens the story has hardly even started.

And I'm still convinced that these "silly" character quirks will be utilized to a great degree once they meet each other. Each Toa compliments another and I can't wait to see them interact!

 

-NotS

 

Plot Twist: Toa never meet each other

[32one]

2015's sets have much better moccing potential, piece durability and articulation, but I'm not yet convinced that the story will be able to to match G1. The toa now have the "Mask of [their element]", so what masks will the next toa team have? Different masks with the same power? The 'flaws' of characters are explicitly stated in their bios rather than being revealed through books and other media, and are also too trivial and silly (snoring? afraid of the dark?) for me to find interesting.

 

2008 is the year of grey and silver. So many grey and silver Inika builds... *shiver*

 

And 2015 is the year of grey, black, silver, gold, gunmetal, and transparent colours, usually all on each set. We lose the clean, simple colour schemes, but at least we no longer have the Inika builds 

 

[derhenson]

I loved the more raw aesthetic of the oldest sets. As far as the colors go, I prefer 2001 over 2015 (the hyper-saturated palette is a bit of an eyesore for me). However, my favorite color schemes were those from the middle chapters, with the darker, tarnished colors and metallics.

Edited January 12, 2015 by derhenson

[Nescent]

As far as the colors go, I prefer 2001 over 2015 (the hyper-saturated palette is a bit of an eyesore for me).

 

The 2001 sets are more vibrant than the 2015 sets...all of the primary colors were 100% red, 100% blue, etc., whereas the new colors are softer, some with a white tint (look at Lewa). Perhaps they seem more saturated because they have more pieces, and thus more surface area showing off color, but some of them are still clearly darker. Gali uses lots of gunmetal, for example.

 

I do of course agree that 2015 is overall much more bright and colorful than the likes of the Toa Metru/Inika, and personally I am very glad. Dark colors were good, but for a while we only got dark colors, which was too much.

[derhenson]

 

As far as the colors go, I prefer 2001 over 2015 (the hyper-saturated palette is a bit of an eyesore for me).

 

 

The 2001 sets are more vibrant than the 2015 sets...all of the primary colors were 100% red, 100% blue, etc., whereas the new colors are softer, some with a white tint (look at Lewa). Perhaps they seem more saturated because they have more pieces, and thus more surface area showing off color, but some of them are still clearly darker. Gali uses lots of gunmetal, for example.

 

I do of course agree that 2015 is overall much more bright and colorful than the likes of the Toa Metru/Inika, and personally I am very glad. Dark colors were good, but for a while we only got dark colors, which was too much.

Yeah, you're right that the 2001 sets were more saturated (I was probably thinking more broadly about the early years). Sorry for the misinformed post. However, I'd still say that the 2015 sets appear brighter and more vibrant, such that it appears cartoonish to my eye.

[Latrodectus]

And 2015 is the year of grey, black, silver, gold, gunmetal, and transparent colours, usually all on each set. We lose the clean, simple colour schemes, but at least we no longer have the Inika builds 

I'd take that any day if it means that we see some actual bright colors. Lewa looks positively vibrant compared to anything from 2004 to 2008 outside the Barraki and Visorak, and he's practically half-silver. Part of that is the set's big smooth shells serve as good sources of the brighter colors, while silver is restricted to the more detailed shapes. 

 

Also, the masks designs for 2015 look wonderful. At first I wasn't enamored by Lewa's very different Miru, but the smile in the mask design won me over. I think my favorite mask designs (with a few exceptions like the Arthron and the Great Rau) are from 2001, but 2015 certainly is one of the better years. Way better than 2002's awful Nuva masks for updating the original Kanohi.

 

On a side note, mentioning the Arthron made me remember how good Jaller Mahri was. The fun crab, the amazing color scheme, the unique armor pieces, the sword, the mask, he was just a very solid canister set and was the best of the Mahri by far.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Latrodectus

[derhenson]

I seem to be in a minority with my color palette preferences...

[Spiffy247]

I seem to be in a minority with my color palette preferences...

I have an idea! Maybe instead you could be in a suit of bacon! It's better than being in a minority.

[abstractAgamid]

 

Well, yes, I didn't mean it as "inferior", but they really seem to be tacked-on and more... childish(not in a positive way)? You can see it from the style the character bios were written in. It's as if they were trying really hard to include more people.

 

Although, you did have some interesting traits in G1 heroes, like Nuju's anti-social tendencies and the whole Onu-/Ko-Matoran past/future conflict. (I do agree that it would be nice to see some more different flaws.)

 

Oh, and I also pretty much agree with your stance on "overcoming" flaws, I generally don't find characters ascending to a universal "best form" very interesting.

Yes, starting in 2004 I feel like classic BIONICLE did get better about coming up with better sources of conflict for its characters than just the bickering the Toa Mata were prone to. Like you mention, the Toa Metru got in disagreements over real cultural differences. It was interesting to see how despite living together in one city, the Matoran of Metru Nui were considerably more divided on a cultural level than those on Mata Nui. Never on Mata Nui did we hear the kind of scorn the Toa Metru had for one another's professions or cultures. But over time the Toa Metru learned to appreciate one another's different backgrounds and ways of thinking.

 

On a side note, I think the 2004 storyline also did a good job by sending the Toa off in pairs or groups of three for certain quests, so that not all their achievements had to be either as individuals or as a team of six. Those moments when the team was split up into smaller groups were a great chance to explore the chemistry between different characters, and I hope that once the 2015 Toa finally meet each other they might have opportunities to bond with one another in this fashion.

 

They don't have to be cultural differences, though (I'd actually prefer if they weren't).

Edited January 16, 2015 by abstractAgamid

[Lyichir]

 

 

Well, yes, I didn't mean it as "inferior", but they really seem to be tacked-on and more... childish(not in a positive way)? You can see it from the style the character bios were written in. It's as if they were trying really hard to include more people.

 

Although, you did have some interesting traits in G1 heroes, like Nuju's anti-social tendencies and the whole Onu-/Ko-Matoran past/future conflict. (I do agree that it would be nice to see some more different flaws.)

 

Oh, and I also pretty much agree with your stance on "overcoming" flaws, I generally don't find characters ascending to a universal "best form" very interesting.

Yes, starting in 2004 I feel like classic BIONICLE did get better about coming up with better sources of conflict for its characters than just the bickering the Toa Mata were prone to. Like you mention, the Toa Metru got in disagreements over real cultural differences. It was interesting to see how despite living together in one city, the Matoran of Metru Nui were considerably more divided on a cultural level than those on Mata Nui. Never on Mata Nui did we hear the kind of scorn the Toa Metru had for one another's professions or cultures. But over time the Toa Metru learned to appreciate one another's different backgrounds and ways of thinking.

 

On a side note, I think the 2004 storyline also did a good job by sending the Toa off in pairs or groups of three for certain quests, so that not all their achievements had to be either as individuals or as a team of six. Those moments when the team was split up into smaller groups were a great chance to explore the chemistry between different characters, and I hope that once the 2015 Toa finally meet each other they might have opportunities to bond with one another in this fashion.

 

They don't have to be cultural differences, though (I'd actually prefer if they weren't).

 

Oh, of course they don't have to be. It's just that cultural differences made for better conflicts than the Toa Mata's general disagreeableness. Genuine conflicts of personality, attitude and worldview would probably be better than both, so long as it doesn't come at the expense of logic (real conflict in a team generally comes from a failure to work together effectively, not from repeatedly refusing to work together at all).

[Hasreadit]

I think that 2015 beats out 2001 by a lot set wise. These Toa are my favorite ever and they look super cool. However, 2001 had better Rahi and the Rahi had cooler functions back then.

 

My only complaints about 2015 are the lack of opponents (a single Toa could probably take the LoSS, arachnids have eight legs, and it looks like they've removed Mask Powers and all the depth in the story which made the original Bionicle so cool. I expect all of my complaints to be solved because Bionicle is just starting out and has only been out for 16 days