Theory: The Ancient City

fishers64 · January 6, 2015

Recent promo inserts from the Lego magazine have hinted that there is an "ancient city" on Okoto. My theory is that said city is shown right here in the Legend video:

These screenshots from the Legend video sure look like a city to me. If it's not the Ancient city, than what is it?

It also sort of begs the question of why they put these shots in here if they weren't significant. More interestingly, it looks like the city is floating, in this last picture, on some sort of cloud or steam, and that there is a very subtle difference in the architecture that indicates things are wrecked. (But why is there a floating city in the middle of an island? Weird.)

Also, this image + "all lived in harmony" may indicate that all of the tribes lived together in the Ancient city. :shrugs:

The masks being scattered may have led to the Protectors abandoning the city and being scattered too, or having to go all over the island to protect the masks.

I'm sure ya'll can take a gatling gun to this one. Go!

Lyichir · January 6, 2015

I would not be at all surprised if the ancient city has a role akin to Metru Nui. Not that it will necessarily become the main setting or anything, but rather that it was an ancestral home of the people of Okoto that was lost to them, leading to them spreading out into very clearly demarcated villages. Also, I have little doubt what remains of the ancient city is now underground—the classic story never failed to hide secrets beneath the surface of the island, and there's nothing identifiable as a city on the overhead map of the island. I expect the Toa to venture into the Ancient City in the second half of this year, and discover/face off against whatever evil may be lurking there.

Banana Gunz · January 6, 2015

I completely agree with this theory, and what Lyichir said about it being like Metru-Nui. All fingers point towards it and it just makes sense to me.

Chro · January 6, 2015

That's the Ancient City. The game/app thing basically confirms it, regardless of whether or not it's canon... in his bio LOSS is said to guard the way to the city, and the boss fight occurs on a road towards what is clearly shown to be the same city, right at the island's center.

As Lyi said, a Metru Nui scenario with it would be awesome.

**bonesiii** · January 6, 2015

I didn't see it as floating, I saw it as having a cliff on one side for some reason (maybe protective), with some fog down there. But I can see how you get that. :shrugs:

Lewa0111 Nuva · January 6, 2015

Hold on a second, wait-wait-wait-wait-whoa. I never noticed it before you posted these four pictures together, but check out the last one, with the villagers fishing. Now look at the structure on the far right of the third picture, the one that looks like a bunch of giant masks in a ring with horns sticking up? The pillars (or whatever) the villagers are fishing on do bear a resemblance to the horns on that mask-structure-thing.

What if the Ancient City, or at least part of it, is underwater in the shallows of Ga-Koto (or whatever the water village is called)? I'm sort of picturing a modern-Alexandria style ruin. There's a thought.

:mirunu: Lewa0111 Nuva

Munty · January 6, 2015

Not sure it can be floating as it's clearly below the mountain tops as can be seen in all the posted images above. I'd say that makes it a plateau at the very most. Chro is also right about the app. The bridge on which the boss fight takes place is actually visible in the second and third images in the bottom right corner. Given that said bridge leads directly to that temple-like structure I don't think there's any doubt that this is where the 2015 storyline will take us. Perhaps the skull-baddies have taken over this city and it has faded into legend for some reason? The Toa will discover it is the source of the infestation and attack it later in the year.

Although thinking about it, do we know where Ekimu and Makuta used to forge their masks? Perhaps this is it! Look at that big structure on the left of each picture. Looks kind of like an anvil to me and it's placed even higher up than the 'temple' although that could make the lower structure more akin to an arena and the anvil structure the temple. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that anvil structure is the great forge though and the lower structure is perhaps the temple of time?

Then the city would have been abandonned after the incident with the MoUP and Ekimu and Makuta laid to rest in the area (maybe the 'arena' is their tomb?) It could even be that the real 'big-bad' in 2015 is not Makuta himself but the MoUP exerting it's will from wherever Ekimu tossed it. It could be attracting the Skull spiders and other foes to the city or even somehow manifesting them itself. Makuta will undoubtedly have links to the evil of the mask and so could still appear as a sort of possessed baddie (in titan form with MoUP of course!) to conclude the storyline. After the Toa defeat him, the mask will be contained/destroyed by Ekimu (in Titan form with the MoC) and the brothers will reconcile and leave Okoto for some other mysterious location.

That conclusion would seem to tie up all the loose ends and allow the writers to either introduce a new threat to Okoto without Ekimu/Mkuta being involved OR establish a new location with one or both or the brothers in charge once more. There are just so many ways to go from that ending if Makuta is shown to be a victim of the mask he created rather than the true villain everyone is expecting and then allowing both maskmakers to leave Okoto and embark on new adventures. Could see a LOT of new Toa teams if they split up and travel to different islands. Perhaps we'll even get a truly BAD Toa team later on and a Makuta/Ekimu war a few years down the line for the grand finale. They could each start afresh on new islands, each of which could give us a year of content or both running concurrently for two years. Then when their individual stories are over, TLG could finally giveus the 'Ekimu is the bad guy' twist and have him attack Makuta's island with his own super powerful Toa (or Toa-like) team.

I want to see that happen

Rooster Nui · January 6, 2015

Yeah, when I first found out about the "ancient city", I hoped it would be something akin to Metru Nui, and it looks as if it is shaping up to be that.

The 1st Shadow · January 6, 2015

Not sure it can be floating as it's clearly below the mountain tops as can be seen in all the posted images above. I'd say that makes it a plateau at the very most. Chro is also right about the app. The bridge on which the boss fight takes place is actually visible in the second and third images in the bottom right corner. Given that said bridge leads directly to that temple-like structure I don't think there's any doubt that this is where the 2015 storyline will take us. Perhaps the skull-baddies have taken over this city and it has faded into legend for some reason? The Toa will discover it is the source of the infestation and attack it later in the year.

Although thinking about it, do we know where Ekimu and Makuta used to forge their masks? Perhaps this is it! Look at that big structure on the left of each picture. Looks kind of like an anvil to me and it's placed even higher up than the 'temple' although that could make the lower structure more akin to an arena and the anvil structure the temple. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that anvil structure is the great forge though and the lower structure is perhaps the temple of time?

Neither structure is the Temple of Time. I'd say that the one on the hill is probably the Mask Makers' Forge.

Anyway, the LoSS is said to be guarding the Ancient City. What if the Protectors used to live there, but then the skull spiders drove them out, and are now guarding the place to keep the villagers from returning? That being the case, each tribe would have gone off to their respective elemental corner of the land to wait for the Toa's arrival.

fishers64 · January 6, 2015

Hold on a second, wait-wait-wait-wait-whoa. I never noticed it before you posted these four pictures together, but check out the last one, with the villagers fishing. Now look at the structure on the far right of the third picture, the one that looks like a bunch of giant masks in a ring with horns sticking up? The pillars (or whatever) the villagers are fishing on do bear a resemblance to the horns on that mask-structure-thing.

What if the Ancient City, or at least part of it, is underwater in the shallows of Ga-Koto (or whatever the water village is called)? I'm sort of picturing a modern-Alexandria style ruin. There's a thought.

Lewa0111 Nuva

This is probably an illusion because I posted that pic out of chronological order. The Legend video strongly implies that "villagers fishing" was before the other events of the Legend, including the Mask Makers' tragedy.

Side note: I can't help but notice that it shows a Ta-Villager fishing though. We may yet have more evidence of varying tastes on yonder island, meaning that a Ko-Villager ice fisherwoman is possible in Gen 2 canon. But that's probably me being silly.

Munty · January 7, 2015

Neither structure is the Temple of Time. I'd say that the one on the hill is probably the Mask Makers' Forge.

Anyway, the LoSS is said to be guarding the Ancient City. What if the Protectors used to live there, but then the skull spiders drove them out, and are now guarding the place to keep the villagers from returning? That being the case, each tribe would have gone off to their respective elemental corner of the land to wait for the Toa's arrival.

You're quite right, I've only watched the cartoons once and had forgotten it was depicted... I still stand by my hunch that the anvil looking building could be the forge though. I may rewatch the cartoons as I know there is a little visible scenery in the legend.

I'm not sure I can buy into the possibility of the Protectors living in the Ancient City. They need to be with their people or how can they protect them? Of course it could be that the majority of the villagers also lived there but if that was the case I doubt the skull spiders could have pushed them out of the city so completely. After all, if they're strong enough for that then why haven't they wiped out the villagers completely? It definitely follows to reason that someone lived their prior to the spiders' arrival though (or the tragedy at any rate) so the question is who? It could be a kind or Karda Nui scenario where the population of the island originated from but eventually left for some reason, possibly long before the tragedy. Of course theories like that leave us wide open for another Metru Nui flashback storyline which has already been done... Another alternative is that rather than being the place the villagers came from it's where they go to in the end. Not to die per se, but perhaps the protectors of old retire to the ancient city when they name their successors? We already had the discussion about inheritance and reproduction so where does everyone go? It would also mean the Ancient city is inhabited by pretty weak and defenceless old-timers. Heroes in their day but not anymore.

Perhaps it's not called the Ancient City because IT is old but because the people who live their are the ANCIENTS? B-)

EDIT : More like a brief addendum than an edit but here it is anyway...

Just rewatched the legend and all we really see of the forge is that there are clearly other buildings nearby. We can see them in the background of the shot where Ekimu and Makuta shake hands. This could suggest that it IS in the ancient city as it is certainly in some sort of populated area.

The trouble with this however is that when Ekimu knocks the mask from Makuta's face we see an explosion decimate a small part of the island. If that's where the ancient city was it definitely aint there no more! I have no idea how the two brothers survived but the explosion essentially shoots a hole out of the island so whatever the location of the forge WAS it may well be no more.

Of course... The video does show Makuta getting into all sorts of trouble prior to the mask being removed so perhaps they were in a different part of the island at that point?

Something else I gleaned from rewatching this was that the narrator quite clearly states "THE MASK TOOK CONTROL OF MAKUTA". It may not be hugely relevant in this topic but it is in another one so I'll leave it here for reference and my highly unreliable brain!

A final somewhat unrelated point. Does anyone else think that funny shaped protrusion in the middle of the island looks like a minifig hand? It's a robot! There's a giant robotic minifig inside the Ancient City!!! Nailed it

Edited January 7, 2015 by Munty

aldero · January 7, 2015

I think this crumbling city will be the jumping-off point for the rest of the story. Similar to when the Toa Mata descended into the Bohrok Nest, our heroes will enter the city to complete their mission. In this city, they find many secrets beyond their knowledge, and they eventually find ancient enemies of Okoto dormant in the city. The Toa's journey leads them to the legendary Maskmaker's forge, where they find out the secrets of unlocking the elements, and when they venture deeper into the city, they find the Mask of Ultimate Power, and it's guardians.

When the Toa defeat the guardians of the Mask, one of the guardians, in a last-ditch effort, attempts to destroy the Mask of Ultimate Power, which causes another shockwave to ripple across Okoto, awakening the legendary Ekimu - and his corrupted brother, Makuta.

I don't know, I make up these ridiculous theories all the time. Nevertheless, this Ancient City will undoubtedly play a major role in the story and be the setting for the Summer wave.

Munty · January 7, 2015

Ridiculous nothing, that's a very well thought out and perfectly reasonable storyline. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Ancient City is the jumping-off point as you call it. Makes logical sense that if that's where the LoSS is then that's where the Toa will be heading. We even see them going there in the game. I imagine it could be the mid-year story as opposed to the end though as I think the majority of the island is simply infested with skull spiders. The baddies we're inevitably going to get in the next wave are probably IN the city with the LoSS playing bodyguard. When the new sets are released it will probably be because the Toa have defeated the SS and LoSS and made their way into the city where much tougher foes are waiting for them. My guess is 6 toa sized, skull-themed villains and one friendly sub-titan (kind of LoSS) Maybe a sighting of Ekimu or Makuta in their small forms but it might be a bit early for that if we're only just getting up to the second level badguys...

**Nidhiki of the Shadows** · January 7, 2015

That's the Ancient City. The game/app thing basically confirms it, regardless of whether or not it's canon... in his bio LOSS is said to guard the way to the city, and the boss fight occurs on a road towards what is clearly shown to be the same city, right at the island's center.

As Lyi said, a Metru Nui scenario with it would be awesome.

The fact that it is in the center of the island is so awesome. Definitely reminiscent of Kini-Nui/Mangaia in 2001.

-NotS

Edited January 7, 2015 by Nidhiki of the Shadows

Zeb · January 7, 2015

Look.

The city shown in the Legend animation is almost definitely the ancient city. Notice the large anvil-shaped building and broken buildings and overgrown plants all over the place.

fishers64 · January 7, 2015

It's all starting to make sense now - why those pictures, and why they were included.

MrSciFiGuy · January 8, 2015

Well, from playing the Lego app game, it appears that the Ancient city is at the heart of the island, but LoSS creatures are there and probably keep everyone out, so they keep it abandoned. It'll be interesting to see if the Toa fight their way into the new city, facing the summer sets as enemies?

Munty · January 8, 2015

I'm still curious as to where the forge is. I'm almost 100% positive that it will be in the ancient city as it just makes sense. If it is though, how is it that Makuta and Ekimu have their 'fight' right on the NorthWest coast? The video seems to suggest that the mask is removed fairly soon after Makuta dons it but there is time for him to make a few earthquakes and such so who knows?

Also, I'd never really paid attention to that image of the Toa overlooking the city but it's clearly the same architecture and definitely very old so could be the one! It does look VERY old though, kind of hundreds of years old... In which case perhaps the forge isn't there after all. I don't think the media we've seen so far suggests that there was a huge padding of time between the tragedy and the Toa arriving was there?

fishers64 · January 8, 2015

I don't think the media we've seen so far suggests that there was a huge padding of time between the tragedy and the Toa arriving was there?

I would think that calling that part of time "The Legend" seems to suggest that a bunch of time has passed between then and now. After all, legends take time to develop.

It also suggests that the full story of the Legend may not be 100% factual, like the 2001 Legend was. How remains to be seen - that vid sounds like straight up factual storytelling to me, but that could be a shrewd cognitive illusion.

The 1st Shadow · January 8, 2015

I'm still curious as to where the forge is. I'm almost 100% positive that it will be in the ancient city as it just makes sense. If it is though, how is it that Makuta and Ekimu have their 'fight' right on the NorthWest coast? The video seems to suggest that the mask is removed fairly soon after Makuta dons it but there is time for him to make a few earthquakes and such so who knows?

Perhaps he went far away to put the mask on, hoping that he could get ahead of Ekimu and do what he needed to before his brother could stop him.

Munty · January 8, 2015

I would think that calling that part of time "The Legend" seems to suggest that a bunch of time has passed between then and now. After all, legends take time to develop.

It also suggests that the full story of the Legend may not be 100% factual, like the 2001 Legend was. How remains to be seen - that vid sounds like straight up factual storytelling to me, but that could be a shrewd cognitive illusion.

Good point, legends do tend to be pretty old don't they? Otherwise I suppose it would just be history! It would certainly leave the story a lot more room to grow if they leave a gap there for us. There are plenty of things that could happen in that time after all. Like the masks being spread all over the ialand. Who built those plinths by the way???

Perhaps he went far away to put the mask on, hoping that he could get ahead of Ekimu and do what he needed to before his brother could stop him.

Another good point, it's certainly a distinct possibility! What does the video show? Did he put it on immediately after forging it or doesn't it make that clear? And what were his intentions with the MoUP if he deemed it necessary to sneak away to put it on? Doesn't paint him in a very favourable light!

The 1st Shadow · January 8, 2015

Perhaps he went far away to put the mask on, hoping that he could get ahead of Ekimu and do what he needed to before his brother could stop him.
Another good point, it's certainly a distinct possibility! What does the video show? Did he put it on immediately after forging it or doesn't it make that clear? And what were his intentions with the MoUP if he deemed it necessary to sneak away to put it on? Doesn't paint him in a very favourable light!

The video shows him forging the mask, and then it cuts to him in the desert putting the mask on. Since we've been given no evidence that these guys can teleport, I'm gonna say he had to sneak off.

**bonesiii** · January 8, 2015

Maybe he wanted to test it far away from any observers, in case he'd forged it wrong?

It would be bad strategy to walk up and declare he'd made an illegal mask, then put it on and find out it doesn't even work. Better to test it first, THEN do that, and if they try to stop him, use the mask to defend himself (or maybe try to conquer... not sure if he was that far gone yet at the time though).

But he messed up the other way -- underestimating how powerful it was.

Problem is Ekimu seems to get onscene pretty quickly, so maybe this doesn't work. I dunno.

The 1st Shadow · January 8, 2015

Problem is Ekimu seems to get onscene pretty quickly, so maybe this doesn't work. I dunno.

Well, if you noticed that the person you grew up with suddenly walked out with something unfamiliar in his hands while giving no explanation, wouldn't you get a little suspicious? Also, we don't know how mask-making works in this world. Perhaps there was some kind of elemental residue that Ekimu noticed, deducing from it what his brother had made and immediately ran after him.

**bonesiii** · January 8, 2015

Yeah, either of those ideas would work.

Akavakaku · January 9, 2015

Ah, that explains it! I was wondering why the Mask Forge was in the Stone region wastelands.

Prowl Nightwolf · January 9, 2015

Ok, I am lost... what is this about a game? They released a game already that we can play to get part of the story?

fishers64 · January 9, 2015

Ok, I am lost... what is this about a game? They released a game already that we can play to get part of the story?

It's a cell phone (iOS, Android) game where you fight the skull spiders.

The Meta Knight · January 9, 2015

I'm not sure I can buy into the possibility of the Protectors living in the Ancient City. They need to be with their people or how can they protect them?

I believe he was referring to the Protectors' species, although I do think your theory on them living there is reasonable.

On a side note, who believes this image also depicts the Ancient City? I don't think that large temple that takes up most of the image (the one on the far left of the image on the OP) is the Temple of Time considering it really doesn't look that much like it, but it's clearly something important. Given the anvil shape, I think it's safe to assume it's the Mask Makers' forge. Perhaps it's the place where Ekimu was laid to rest given it's prominence in the above-linked picture. That's the only reason I can think of that would explain the Toas' obvious interest in it.

Akavakaku · January 9, 2015

I think the image is definitely the city, but the differences in Gali's axe and Kopaka's spear from the true versions raises the possibility that this was concept art, not a final design.

The Meta Knight · January 10, 2015

I think the image is definitely the city, but the differences in Gali's axe and Kopaka's spear from the true versions raises the possibility that this was concept art, not a final design.

They don't look that different to me. I think it's just artistic variation. Even if it is just concept art, the image looks pretty final to me; the Toa are basically in their final forms, and the Forge in the image (as I noted) looks just like the Forge in the OP image. So even if it is just concept art, it's probably final enough to be taken into account.

**Nidhiki of the Shadows** · January 10, 2015

Well - I think its safe to assume the Toa entering the city will be the starting point for the summer story?

-NotS

Munty · January 10, 2015

Agreed, The Ancient City will surely be visited to kick off the next wave. I think that pic is almost certainly going to turn out to be the same city too and that the anvil building WILL be the forge. The differences between the cartoon images of the city and the more impressive depiction is probably just down to style. I for one would much rather imagine the city as the sprawling, ancient ruins seen in the latter than the fairly small looking island city in the former anyway...

**Nidhiki of the Shadows** · January 12, 2015

It's interesting how the summer story and winter story aren't super clearly defined. The promo image for the Toa shows them reaching for the Mask of Creation, and the final boss in the app takes place in the ancient city. But I think it's safe to assume that after retrieving their gold masks, the Toa will travel there for their first true mission together to face the summer villains and retrieve the MoC. At the end of the day, yeah, this picture says it all (also, does anyone wonder about the symbol next to where Onua is latched on?)

-NotS

The 1st Shadow · January 12, 2015

At the end of the day, yeah, this picture says it all (also, does anyone wonder about the symbol next to where Onua is latched on?)

-NotS

It almost resembles the Mask of Skull Spiders, from what I can see. Curious.

**Nidhiki of the Shadows** · January 12, 2015

It almost resembles the Mask of Skull Spiders, from what I can see. Curious.

Hmmm, quite possible! Also seems to be another one on the back of that pillar in the shade, partially obscured by vines. Looks different. Hmmm...

-NotS

The 1st Shadow · January 12, 2015

It almost resembles the Mask of Skull Spiders, from what I can see. Curious.
Hmmm, quite possible! Also seems to be another one on the back of that pillar in the shade, partially obscured by vines. Looks different. Hmmm...

-NotS

Almost looks to be a different mask, though in the same style. I can't tell what it might look like, though.

Prowl Nightwolf · January 14, 2015

So what are you saying, you think the Lord of Skull spiders cold be in the Temple grounds itself? Based on that picture where the ruins seems overrun with foliage it is a safe bet all manner of nefarious creatures could be making their home on the grounds.

Xabla · January 14, 2015

I like this theory. Seems very accurate. I think LOSS has made his home the ancient city. What if the Skull Spiders are really peaceful creatures like IFB of Bohrok (kind of)

fishers64 · January 15, 2015

I like this theory. Seems very accurate. I think LOSS has made his home the ancient city. What if the Skull Spiders are really peaceful creatures like IFB of Bohrok (kind of)

I tend to doubt this - they are portrayed very much as villains who want to stop the Toa from getting their masks.

They could have been peaceful and made vicious by the MoUP or Makuta, though.

Theory: The Ancient City

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