Should We Pay Attention To The Islanders?

[aldero]

From what we've seen in the recent story videos, the islanders aren't exactly characters. Sure, we have the young villager who has been widely celebrated for his cuteness, but the islanders are still, quite literally, copy-paste characters. 

 

If the story team wants to diversify the island and culture of Okoto, they should pay some attention to the islanders. Now, I'm not saying that every single islander should have a different personality, body-build and mask design, but rather just make them matter in the Okoto society by giving a handful of them names and occupations. It'll work as well as it did on the island of Mata Nui, trust me.

 

I don't have very much to offer up, so tell me what you think.

[Sumiki]

I think the story team is actively trying to avoid the over-world-building that toppled G1. Perhaps they went too far into the opposite direction, but I'd urge caution myself—after all, we're only a week into the new year.

[bonesiii]

I don't think we'll decide this really -- if the story pays attention to the islanders, we will; if it doesn't, we won't, yeah?

[The 1st Shadow]

Well, so long as we get more than 8 characters (6 Toa and 2 Mask Makers), I'm okay with anything. Because so far nothing we've seen indicates that the Protectors are anything more than either village leaders or villagers, with hardly a way to distinguish between them. They're like the SW Stormtroopers right now, I'd say.

[Regitnui]

I don't think we'll decide this really -- if the story pays attention to the islanders, we will; if it doesn't, we won't, yeah?

I agree with Bonesiii on a lot, and this is one of them.

[Latrodectus]

For what it's worth, the fire villager in the Lord of Skull Spiders instruction manual comic is a unique character, neither the little guy nor the Protector of Fire. 

 

However, the comic also implies that character became spider-chow. 

Edited January 7, 2015 by Latrodectus

[Lewa0111 Nuva]

I think the most likely way that would happen will be if/when they release a MNOG-style adventure game. ("OOOG?" Sounds like a caveman XD). If I remember right, in 2001 we didn't get any Matoran names outside of the MNOG at all, with the exception of the McToran. Then MNOG2 ramped it up with names for every single Matoran in the game, leading to hilarious ones like Tiribomba, Marka, Shu, etc.

 

Lewa0111 Nuva

[Munty]

I think the story team is actively trying to avoid the over-world-building that toppled G1. Perhaps they went too far into the opposite direction, but I'd urge caution myself—after all, we're only a week into the new year.

 

Right now, I kind of feel like they have gone too far in the other direction. There's simplification and then there's over-simplification. I'm hoping we get more named characters as the story progresses outside of the main circle of heroes and villains...

[fishers64]

I think there's a balance - sometimes the details that an author/team of authors gloss over/don't include can be important later, like the villagers. But in this case, sets tend to dictate the focus and direction of the story, so it's important not to emphasize the background and missing/minor details over BIG OBVIOUS STUFF. 

 

In any case, I think they could be interesting fanfic opportunities down the road. If they throw in just a biiit more detail, I could imagine someone writing a good story about them, and I'm hazarding a guess that might be the point - it's Lego, after all.  

[The 1st Shadow]

I think there's a balance - sometimes the details that an author/team of authors gloss over/don't include can be important later, like the villagers. But in this case, sets tend to dictate the focus and direction of the story, so it's important not to emphasize the background and missing/minor details over BIG OBVIOUS STUFF. 

 

That's really kinda the point. The Protectors are sets, and they've been given almost nothing, storyline-wise. Even the Lord of Skull Spiders has more in his character bio than they do!

[Mailli]

How would we be able to tell them apart if they did create individual characters? They all wear the same mask!

[bonesiii]

For what it's worth, the fire villager in the Lord of Skull Spiders instruction manual comic is a unique character, neither the little guy nor the Protector of Fire. 

 

However, the comic also implies that character became spider-chow. 

I was very curious about this, but when I found the image, it looks like you were probably misinterpreting, and that's the Protector of Fire:

 

http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/bionicle/-/media/franchises/bionicle%202014/build/pdf%20files/70790.pdf?l.r2=-1432340351

 

The mask is two-colored, same tones as his. All the other evidence so far indicates two-colored mask is Protector, one-colored is all villagers. He's only carrying one tool, but it's identical to PoF's. And he doesn't have that shoulder cannon, but it could easily be removeable (maybe out of ammo for example; maybe he went through a battle to get that close to the Skull Spider mask, which would make sense, and also explain the loss of one tool perhaps).

Edited January 7, 2015 by bonesiii

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Honestly, this doesn't bug me. This story isn't focused on villagers and is more bent on telling the story of the Toa. The (nameless) Protectors just assist them in their quest (I wouldn't be surprised if they were forgotten about soon after). While I do feel like there is a bit of over-simplifying going on, crowds of similar-looking beings representing villagers is nothing new in BIONICLE.

 

-NotS

[Latrodectus]

 

For what it's worth, the fire villager in the Lord of Skull Spiders instruction manual comic is a unique character, neither the little guy nor the Protector of Fire. 

 

However, the comic also implies that character became spider-chow. 

I was very curious about this, but when I found the image, it looks like you were probably misinterpreting, and that's the Protector of Fire:

 

http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/bionicle/-/media/franchises/bionicle%202014/build/pdf%20files/70790.pdf?l.r2=-1432340351

 

The mask is two-colored, same tones as his. All the other evidence so far indicates two-colored mask is Protector, one-colored is all villagers. He's only carrying one tool, but it's identical to PoF's. And he doesn't have that shoulder cannon, but it could easily be removeable (maybe out of ammo for example; maybe he went through a battle to get that close to the Skull Spider mask, which would make sense, and also explain the loss of one tool perhaps).

 

You're probably right. There are some other weird artistic inconsistencies in the comic, like how The Lord of Skull Spiders lacks orange bits, so it might be based on an earlier design (Whereas the other comics are more accurate to the final sets).

[MrSciFiGuy]

I do wish there was a bit of world-building right now, but its in the early stage of the story. Though, the Protectors dont even have names and they are the important ones. I understand that Lego wants it to be simple, but I don't want things to appear 2-dimensional. 

[Banana Gunz]

I think we should pay attention to the islanders. The story seems to make them out as important, since them/the entire island needs to be freed from evil, and they are a part of this world. Perhaps the emphasis on them is much less than before (sadly for me, I thought one of the best parts about Bionicle was an attention to the villagers and seeing the story from their perspective), but they still probably have a role.

[Tuuli]

I understand that Lego wants it to be simple, but I don't want things to appear 2-dimensional.

2-Late.

[Munty]

How is it too late? We're one week into Gen2, it will only get better from here on out with a developing story line and added depth. If you want to hate something for no good reason go ahead, please stop with these ridiculous, meaningless posts though. If you must comment then at least try to contribute something to the discussion...

[Regitnui]

I do wish there was a bit of world-building right now, but its in the early stage of the story. Though, the Protectors dont even have names and they are the important ones. I understand that Lego wants it to be simple, but I don't want things to appear 2-dimensional. 

I can make a funny and say that it all appears 2-dimensional due to the animation style, but then I remember the CG advert... Actually, I'd rather forget that.

[Catra]

I think the story team is actively trying to avoid the over-world-building that toppled G1.

 

i kinda gotta disagree here. yeah there was way too much world-building and canonization for things that ultimately didnt matter, but i really dont think individualizing the matoran in g1 was complicit in that

 

i feel that by giving the matoran some individuality and showing their daily lives behind the scenes of the main plot, it really added a lot of depth to the story, even if it was minor stuff that wasnt necessarily crucial to the plot. it still showed that Life Goes On even when youve got a bunch of bad guys wreaking havoc and it showed just how hardy the matoran populace was, even without toa (see: mnog and the bohrok animations, voya nui)

 

there was just as much put into the environment and its inhabitants as there was the toa themselves and it helped feel like the little guys were just as important to the goings-on of the plot as the main protagonists rather than just being nameless npcs

 

it also helped show that you didnt need to be some big powerful being with a lot of powers to be able to make a difference (again, the entirety of mnog)

 

not to mention, it gave the toa themselves a little bit more to their character by showing them helping their own people in a more direct, personal way (such as pohatu helping the po-matoran during the tahnok invasion, tahu rescuing takua from lava in mol, etc).

 

so yeah i definitely think we should pay more attention to the okoto villagers and give them some more individuality

[Sumiki]

 

I think the story team is actively trying to avoid the over-world-building that toppled G1.

 

i kinda gotta disagree here. yeah there was way too much world-building and canonization for things that ultimately didnt matter, but i really dont think individualizing the matoran in g1 was complicit in that

 

[snip]

Actually, I think we're both on the same page. I wasn't criticizing Matoran individuality in G1 for playing a part in its demise, but I think that the story team for G2 might see similar backstory as superfluous because of what happened to G1.

[Sir Kohran]

If I remember right, in 2001 we didn't get any Matoran names outside of the MNOG at all, with the exception of the McToran.

 

Hafu was released as a set within the Powerpack, separately to the McDonald's promotion.

[Lyichir]

Even if the islanders don't become important it's still worth paying attention to them.

 

Just look at the immensely-popular Fire Protector Jr. Is he going to be important to the story later on? It's impossible to tell at this point. But fans have latched onto him nonetheless, and he's inspired all sorts of art, MOCs, and theories.

 

This echoes something that I've experienced as part of the MLP fan community. Oftentimes fans latch onto a background character for even the subtlest differences from the "rest of the herd", naming them collectively and creating art, music, and other fanworks about them. Why? Because they're fertile ground for creativity! Unlike the main characters, nothing whatsoever is known about those individual background characters, and they're not likely to ever become prominent. As such, fans can create whatever narrative around them that they like, without fear that their headcanons or stories will be struck down by official media.

 

This was something the original Bionicle story was notoriously bad at. By meticulously filling in almost every detail even about marginally relevant characters, few opportunities remained to tell unique stories about canon characters. If you chose to write a story about a side character or a character who had faded from the spotlight, you could almost rely on that story having to become an "AU" (Alternate Universe) fic, since Greg and the persistent fandom would almost assuredly fill in whatever blank space in the story in which you chose to tell your own story.

 

So embrace the unnamed and unimportant characters. In a story based on a creative toy, those characters represent the greatest creative opportunity of all.

[Lewa0111 Nuva]

Even if the islanders don't become important it's still worth paying attention to them.

 

Just look at the immensely-popular Fire Protector Jr. Is he going to be important to the story later on? It's impossible to tell at this point. But fans have latched onto him nonetheless, and he's inspired all sorts of art, MOCs, and theories.

 

This echoes something that I've experienced as part of the MLP fan community. Oftentimes fans latch onto a background character for even the subtlest differences from the "rest of the herd", naming them collectively and creating art, music, and other fanworks about them. Why? Because they're fertile ground for creativity! Unlike the main characters, nothing whatsoever is known about those individual background characters, and they're not likely to ever become prominent. As such, fans can create whatever narrative around them that they like, without fear that their headcanons or stories will be struck down by official media.

 

This was something the original Bionicle story was notoriously bad at. By meticulously filling in almost every detail even about marginally relevant characters, few opportunities remained to tell unique stories about canon characters. If you chose to write a story about a side character or a character who had faded from the spotlight, you could almost rely on that story having to become an "AU" (Alternate Universe) fic, since Greg and the persistent fandom would almost assuredly fill in whatever blank space in the story in which you chose to tell your own story.

 

So embrace the unnamed and unimportant characters. In a story based on a creative toy, those characters represent the greatest creative opportunity of all.

 

This is true to a point; however, I think LEGO could still strike a better balance between "describe every single character in existence" (Old!Bionicle) and "no one besides the six Toa even get so much as a name" (New!Bionicle so far). Maybe just fill in a few characters, one or two from each tribe, and leave plenty of background characters unnamed for people to headcanon with. As others have mentioned, the islanders' perspective (especially in the MNOG and similar sources) was one of the most fun parts of 2001.

 

Lewa0111 Nuva

[The 1st Shadow]

 

Even if the islanders don't become important it's still worth paying attention to them.

 

Just look at the immensely-popular Fire Protector Jr. Is he going to be important to the story later on? It's impossible to tell at this point. But fans have latched onto him nonetheless, and he's inspired all sorts of art, MOCs, and theories.

 

This echoes something that I've experienced as part of the MLP fan community. Oftentimes fans latch onto a background character for even the subtlest differences from the "rest of the herd", naming them collectively and creating art, music, and other fanworks about them. Why? Because they're fertile ground for creativity! Unlike the main characters, nothing whatsoever is known about those individual background characters, and they're not likely to ever become prominent. As such, fans can create whatever narrative around them that they like, without fear that their headcanons or stories will be struck down by official media.

 

This was something the original Bionicle story was notoriously bad at. By meticulously filling in almost every detail even about marginally relevant characters, few opportunities remained to tell unique stories about canon characters. If you chose to write a story about a side character or a character who had faded from the spotlight, you could almost rely on that story having to become an "AU" (Alternate Universe) fic, since Greg and the persistent fandom would almost assuredly fill in whatever blank space in the story in which you chose to tell your own story.

 

So embrace the unnamed and unimportant characters. In a story based on a creative toy, those characters represent the greatest creative opportunity of all.

 

This is true to a point; however, I think LEGO could still strike a better balance between "describe every single character in existence" (Old!Bionicle) and "no one besides the six Toa even get so much as a name" (New!Bionicle so far). Maybe just fill in a few characters, one or two from each tribe, and leave plenty of background characters unnamed for people to headcanon with. As others have mentioned, the islanders' perspective (especially in the MNOG and similar sources) was one of the most fun parts of 2001.

 

Lewa0111 Nuva

 

Agreed. If G1 had started off focusing just on the Toa constantly saving unknown background characters, I know I would have gotten bored of it and probably left around '05. No, having some insight into who the islanders are and what they do made them feel worth saving. Helped me sympathize with them, make it feel like I was one of them and the Toa were saving me. That's what made G1 great, even though it was pushed past its limit in later years.

[UnderscoreChronix]

I agree. They are simplifying the story way too much. 

Even some of the the sets aren't real characters! All the Protectors but "Fire guy" haven't had any lines, character info or bio, or information at all apart from the names of their weapons. 

[Aanchir]

I would like it if we saw a wider range of designs for the ordinary villagers over time (not every one needs to be unique, but it wouldn't hurt to have three to six repeated villager designs for each tribe, kind of like in the BIONICLE movies, just to show that they're not all identical).

 

But currently, we're just getting to know the Toa and Protectors, so I don't think a whole lot of attention needs to be paid to the villagers just yet, at least from a story standpoint. Simply showing that they exist and giving a glimpse of their lifestyles and the plight the Toa are meant to save them from is sufficient. I'd love to learn more about what the villages of Okoto are like, but there will be plenty of time for that in the future. Right now, we haven't even learned much about the Protectors, and I think that's a higher priority for the time being.

[Lyichir]

I agree. They are simplifying the story way too much. 

Even some of the the sets aren't real characters! All the Protectors but "Fire guy" haven't had any lines, character info or bio, or information at all apart from the names of their weapons. 

We've literally only had four 90-second episodes. I think it's a little early to be asserting that the other Protectors "aren't real characters" just because they haven't had lines yet. Heck, in the Mata Nui Online Game, Tahu appeared in an early cutscene but didn't get a single line until near the end of the game. I suppose he wasn't a "real character", either?

 

It continues to amaze me how many people are willing to call the new story a lost cause when it has barely even started.

[The 1st Shadow]

 

I agree. They are simplifying the story way too much. 

Even some of the the sets aren't real characters! All the Protectors but "Fire guy" haven't had any lines, character info or bio, or information at all apart from the names of their weapons. 

We've literally only had four 90-second episodes. I think it's a little early to be asserting that the other Protectors "aren't real characters" just because they haven't had lines yet. Heck, in the Mata Nui Online Game, Tahu appeared in an early cutscene but didn't get a single line until near the end of the game. I suppose he wasn't a "real character", either?

 

It continues to amaze me how many people are willing to call the new story a lost cause when it has barely even started.

 

Well, for one thing, Tahu actually had a name during that cutscene. His name was known at the start of the line.

For another, he had an online bio that gave some insight into who he was or what he does.

 

The Protectors have been given neither of these things. At this point, they might as well be the Vahki or the Visorak, a single set that represents hundreds of beings that are nearly identical. Unless they're a society like the Skrall, in which individuals have no names, for the most part, there's no reason these six characters shouldn't be given the one defining feature that differentiates them from anyone else: a name.

[Lyichir]

 

 

I agree. They are simplifying the story way too much. 

Even some of the the sets aren't real characters! All the Protectors but "Fire guy" haven't had any lines, character info or bio, or information at all apart from the names of their weapons. 

We've literally only had four 90-second episodes. I think it's a little early to be asserting that the other Protectors "aren't real characters" just because they haven't had lines yet. Heck, in the Mata Nui Online Game, Tahu appeared in an early cutscene but didn't get a single line until near the end of the game. I suppose he wasn't a "real character", either?

 

It continues to amaze me how many people are willing to call the new story a lost cause when it has barely even started.

 

Well, for one thing, Tahu actually had a name during that cutscene. His name was known at the start of the line.

For another, he had an online bio that gave some insight into who he was or what he does.

 

The Protectors have been given neither of these things. At this point, they might as well be the Vahki or the Visorak, a single set that represents hundreds of beings that are nearly identical. Unless they're a society like the Skrall, in which individuals have no names, for the most part, there's no reason these six characters shouldn't be given the one defining feature that differentiates them from anyone else: a name.

 

They may not have names, but they do have titles. And a title can be used to convey identity as well, when it's used for only one individual. In a real life example, the current Dalai Lama was born with a name, but since being selected for the position he is referred to almost exclusively by that title (the sole exception being when discussing past Dalai Lamas comparatively, and even then they're often referred to by number rather than their birth names).

 

And don't even pretend that characters who have a title but no name are new to the reboot, because they're not. The Element Lords were never referred to by given names. Neither was the Shadowed One. And the latter in particular was a VERY important character in SEVERAL stories.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Lyichir

[The 1st Shadow]

They may not have names, but they do have titles. And a title can be used to convey identity as well, when it's used for only one individual. In a real life example, the current Dalai Lama was born with a name, but since being selected for the position he is referred to almost exclusively by that title (the sole exception being when discussing past Dalai Lamas comparatively, and even then they're often referred to by number rather than their birth names).

And don't even pretend that characters who have a title but no name are new to the reboot, because they're not. The Element Lords were never referred to by given names. Neither was the Shadowed One. And the latter in particular was a VERY important character in SEVERAL stories.

 

Okay, the ELs had identities, though. They had backstory. Same with TSO--he didn't need a name. 

"The ELs were once members of the Glatorian race who were selected by the Great Beings to be given special powers and to lead the tribes."

"This is TSO--he is the ruthless leader of the Dark Hunters who formed the organization years ago with his buddy Ancient."

 

The Protectors have had their bio pages copy/pasted from one to the next, with the only difference being Fire vs Water vs Ice. None of them give any information that even remotely defines who they are. Okay, so they don't have names. I can get behind that. But back in '01, the Toa, Turaga, Rahi, McToran, Makuta, and Mata Nui were all given some kind of story information that set them apart from anyone else. If I mentioned meeting a Turaga who focused on the future and had a translator with him, you'd know right away that I'm talking about Nuju, even though I didn't tell you the Turaga's name. If I'd told you I'd met the greatest athlete on all of Mata Nui, you'd know I was talking about Huki/Hewkii, rather than Taipu. If I told you I'd met a Toa who was funny and energetic, you'd know I was talking about Lewa. This information would have been found on their character pages, not just gradually introduced in-story.

 

So far, the Protectors are all identical. If I mentioned meeting a Protector who wore an elemental mask, carried an elemental blaster, and helped the Toa find their mask, which one would you think I'm talking about? Therein lies the problem--that's the exact description for ALL of them.

 

Say I walk up to you, pushing a wheelbarrow filled with bricks. I hand you one and say it's special. You compare it to many other bricks, but find absolutely no difference on the surface. Why should you care about this one piece of masonry? What makes it special. I say, "Oh, well that one has a core made from solid diamond." Until LEGO tells us about the diamonds inside these current "bricks," there's nothing unique or special about the Protectors. 

[Lyichir]

 

They may not have names, but they do have titles. And a title can be used to convey identity as well, when it's used for only one individual. In a real life example, the current Dalai Lama was born with a name, but since being selected for the position he is referred to almost exclusively by that title (the sole exception being when discussing past Dalai Lamas comparatively, and even then they're often referred to by number rather than their birth names).

And don't even pretend that characters who have a title but no name are new to the reboot, because they're not. The Element Lords were never referred to by given names. Neither was the Shadowed One. And the latter in particular was a VERY important character in SEVERAL stories.

 

Okay, the ELs had identities, though. They had backstory. Same with TSO--he didn't need a name. 

"The ELs were once members of the Glatorian race who were selected by the Great Beings to be given special powers and to lead the tribes."

"This is TSO--he is the ruthless leader of the Dark Hunters who formed the organization years ago with his buddy Ancient."

 

The Protectors have had their bio pages copy/pasted from one to the next, with the only difference being Fire vs Water vs Ice. None of them give any information that even remotely defines who they are. Okay, so they don't have names. I can get behind that. But back in '01, the Toa, Turaga, Rahi, McToran, Makuta, and Mata Nui were all given some kind of story information that set them apart from anyone else. If I mentioned meeting a Turaga who focused on the future and had a translator with him, you'd know right away that I'm talking about Nuju, even though I didn't tell you the Turaga's name. If I'd told you I'd met the greatest athlete on all of Mata Nui, you'd know I was talking about Huki/Hewkii, rather than Taipu. If I told you I'd met a Toa who was funny and energetic, you'd know I was talking about Lewa. This information would have been found on their character pages, not just gradually introduced in-story.

 

So far, the Protectors are all identical. If I mentioned meeting a Protector who wore an elemental mask, carried an elemental blaster, and helped the Toa find their mask, which one would you think I'm talking about? Therein lies the problem--that's the exact description for ALL of them.

 

Say I walk up to you, pushing a wheelbarrow filled with bricks. I hand you one and say it's special. You compare it to many other bricks, but find absolutely no difference on the surface. Why should you care about this one piece of masonry? What makes it special. I say, "Oh, well that one has a core made from solid diamond." Until LEGO tells us about the diamonds inside these current "bricks," there's nothing unique or special about the Protectors. 

 

And, I remind you again, it has been ten days since the start of 2015. The new story has more than eleven months in which to flesh out the characters. Sure, most of the Protectors don't have any interesting or unique characterization yet, and their bios didn't add any information to distinguish them from one another. But why don't you wait at least until they actually have had lines before you declare that they "aren't characters"? A little patience never hurt anybody.

 

 

[The 1st Shadow]

And, I remind you again, it has been ten days since the start of 2015. The new story has more than eleven months in which to flesh out the characters. Sure, most of the Protectors don't have any interesting or unique characterization yet, and their bios didn't add any information to distinguish them from one another. But why don't you wait at least until they actually have had lines before you declare that they "aren't characters"? A little patience never hurt anybody.

 

True, but the bios have been up for a couple months now. In '01, the bios immediately contained something to identify the characters by. They didn't wait until May to tell us that Lewa was the goofy and energetic one. They didn't wait until July to tell us that Nuju was the leader of Ko-Koro.

 

All I'm saying is that they could at least say, "the Protector of Fire is a hardy fighter and a master at sword-fighting," or "The Protector of Jungle is an exceptional athlete," or "the Protector of Ice has a great sense of humor."

 

One sentence with one or two details to differentiate them. That would not have been too hard, nor would it necessarily reveal EVERYTHING about the characters. We wouldn't know what makes the PoJ such a good athlete or what led to the PoF becoming a master swordsman. Just something that doesn't make them all look like the same person.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ~T1S~

[Ektris]

I want to, but being entirely identical pretty much makes that impossible. I'll echo too that maybe they did go a little too far.

Only because the youngin' is different has anyone latched onto him. And that's fine, I think he's cute and awesome too. But unless we see more of those, I probably won't care that much at all.

~|ET|~

Edited January 13, 2015 by Ektris

[Xabla]

No, none except for the Baby Fire Villager.