Toa Hagah [Complete Customized Set]

[jimmybob83]

Toa Hagah

A customized complete collection.

Updated

 

 

Full Gallery (High Res):

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=551204

 

 

 

 

Toa Bomonga

Element: Earth

Weapon: Seismic Spear

Mask: Kanohi Krodan, Mask of Growth

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 Toa Gaaki

Element: Water

Weapon: Tidal Spear

Mask: Kanohi Pamatae, Mask of Clairvoyance

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Toa Kualus

Element: Ice

Weapon: Sub-Zero Spear

Mask: Kanohi Zilor, Mask of Rahi Control

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Toa Pouks

Element: Stone

Weapon: Avalanche Spear

Mask: Kanohi Sakron, Mask of Emulation

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I've wanted to do this project for forever. For those of you who don't know, we only got two of the six Toa Hagah as legit sets, and the other four were never pictured. We DID, however, know about their masks, and they are unique masks, never-before-seen. So the major hurdle to making good Toa Hagah MOCs is having four cool, unique Kanohi. (Sure, Toa Norik's Kanohi bends the rules, and is shaped like a different mask than it actually is. So, giving the remaining four Toa "old" masks and claiming that the same thing is going on with them COULD work. But to me, that's an enormous cop-out.) 

 

Gaaki and Bomonga have Kanohi pieces from the old Final Fighter knock-off Chinese/Russian sets (see below for info,) and Pouks and Kualus have what are (in my opinion) the only two Hero Factory heads that could even possibly be considered to look like decent Kanohi. 

 

There's a reason why I think it's an awesome idea to make the Toa Hagah as MOCs, as opposed to the Mangai or Helryx or any of those others. Since we've SEEN two of the Hagah, and since they have such defining characteristics, (metallic armor, spears that use pre-existing pieces, shields, Metru-style bodies,) then you can actually make a logical assumption about the appearances of the other four. They can be recognizable. You can make the best Toa MOC ever and call it one of the nameless Toa Mangai... but no one will know that that's what it is just by looking. So I've always wanted to make the Hagah because they are so distinctive, that (I hope,) you can just look at Gaaki and go, "Hey, that's supposed to be Gaaki, right?"

 

A lot of pieces were spray-painted for these MOCs. The gold and silver colors were impossible for me to match exactly, but I'm very happy with how close I was able to come. I put a lot of thought into which pieces should be used and tried several permutations. I almost gave them all some sort of shin-armor but decided it just didn't look good on most of them. I kept it on Bomonga to give him the heavy/beefy look. 

 

To anybody who is about to say, "B-b-but, Pouk's mask is already depicted on that one Matoran from that one comic that one time!!!1!" I have only this to say: that mask pictured.... Am I the ONLY one who thinks that that is CLEARLY just a Jutlin seen from the side? Am I the only one? I can't be. I reject your reality and substitute my own. Tyvm.

 

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Sidenote of Sadness: What I've ALWAYS wanted to do for the Toa Hagah was to have the four Toa wear the four masks from the Final Fighter/Unbeatable Warrior Blocko "Toa" sets. (See http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=550791) A long, long time ago, like eight years ago, I bought the two pictured (the red and blue ones) on ebay, but I've NEVER found the green or yellow ones (also pictured) anywhere. And I have looked, and looked. I've been on more shady Russian wholesale websites than I can count. They are just impossible to find. But, out of sheer collector-stubbornness, I periodically will look around the internet, to see if I can find those elusive "Toa."  

 

About 6 weeks ago, it LOOKED like I'd finally struck paydirt. I found a Russian Bionicle fansite, put out an add... and got a hit! I was sooo excited that I set out to finally do this Hagah project that I'd been dreaming of! I ordered all the parts and prepared to paint. And I was so enthralled by this project, that I decided to do my Rahkshi project (see my sig) too! Everything was going to work out!

But alas... it apparently was not meant to be. The guy who was supposed to sell me the parts (who will remain nameless).... I cannot even describe how bewildering an individual the guy was. There are no words. If you want to read the mind-melting, "what the heck?"-inducing, disappointing conversation that took place between us over a period of six WEEKS, you can find it here. (Pay attention to the dates.) http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=6210799 Weep, my friends. And I'm sorry I could never get a hold of TRULY unique Kanohi for the last two. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to do an update someday. 

 

Update

3D-printed remake masks. Better? Worse?

Edited February 3, 2015 by jimmybob83

[Specter Knight]

I... I actually have no Words.

[BrickPharaoh]

I think your customized projects are quite interesting. However, might I suggest that you design your own masks/weapons/armor parts and then have them 3D-printed? I think it might cost you a whole lot less than endeavoring upon this wild goose chase plus, you can design whatever you want and you can even have the parts printed in a color of your choice or repaint them to your liking.

That being said I think some of the new Bionicle elements and masks might intrigue you to use them as substitutes for things you've seen before.

 

[jimmybob83]

I think your customized projects are quite interesting. However, might I suggest that you design your own masks/weapons/armor parts and then have them 3D-printed? I think it might cost you a whole lot less than endeavoring upon this wild goose chase plus, you can design whatever you want and you can even have the parts printed in a color of your choice or repaint them to your liking.

That being said I think some of the new Bionicle elements and masks might intrigue you to use them as substitutes for things you've seen before.

 

You're assuming I have any artistic skills whatsoever. If you explore my Brickshelf you'd see that I did 3D print my best attempt to recreate one of those knockoff masks. I just don't have any 3D modeling experience and the only reason I got an A in high school art class was because I was a teacher's pet. And I have zero interest in 2015 Bionicle anything. 

 

That being said, 3D printed pieces... Gee, I never thought of that.... *sarcasm will become apparent when my 3rd project is revealed next week.* 

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

Wow, they look amazing but I do have a dislike of the Star feet being used as feet IMO, I never find bulk helmet to look like a Kanohi Mask and I really don't like Kualus chest armor and I don't think of Breez Brain Attack helmet as the mask of Rahkshi Control (I mostly think of it as for the mask of healing). All of there shoulder armor do look great but I'm amaze that you haven't used the knock off shoulder armor on one of them, also I like the bulkyness on Pouks

[Moku]

Wow, first the Rahkshi and now this!?  You've been on quite the roll buddy!  Great job using unique parts and techniques!

[Regitnui]

Again. Wow. I don't quite like the masks, but I've said that before about canon sets (*cough *mahri*cough) and those have grown on me.

[Chath]

Oh man have I wanted physical representations of these guys. I know it's the basic Toa Metru build so I'm not going to say much of that, but I love the way you created these (finally). The knock-off masks work surprisingly well for Gaaki and Bomonga, so good job on making that work. I do wish Kualus was white and silver instead of white and gold, but white and silver had been done before and it's a nice variation. Opposite goes for Pouks. Sadly, I don't really like the look of the Hero Factory helmets on those two. Kualus' neck seems pretty open, and Pouks' mask doesn't really feel like a traditional Kanohi, but there wasn't much you could do about that. I do, however, really REALLY love the spears, kudos on those. Bomonga and Pouks' bulk is also really cool, I like Whenua's Toa tools being used as shoulder guards.

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

Man some of those chest armour pieces look great! Really love Toa Pouks's shoulder armour as well - a really cool use of Whenua Metru's drills! I don't know if its just my association with Breez being female, but that along with the chest armour for Kualus makes him seem a little too feminine... Really cool idea to use knock-off Masks for both Bomonga and Gaaki, since not many people will relate to them. They are actually fairly good-looking masks too. 

 

Anywho, I've seen a lot of Hagah mocs (both custom, and from using existing pieces) and I have to say that these are probably the best yet. Great job and I look forward to seeing more custom projects from you!

 

-NotS

[jimmybob83]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I considered using the other knock-off armor pieces, Shadow, but I didn't want these to be clones of the knockoffs. I didn't originally intend to use the Blue Toa's chest piece but I felt it represented a slim female Toa better than my other options. I quite like the Star feet, about ten times better than most of the later-year Toa feet. And I'd argue that Pouks' mask only ranks in at about a 3 on the "Bucket-helmet-ness" scale, whereas Matau Metru's mask scores at least an 8. 

 

I also put a lot of thought into who would be gold and who would be silver. In my head, having the dark gold on top of the fleshy brown just didn't mix well, so Pouks got silver, leaving Kualus with gold. 

 

I actually didn't consider people's foreknowledge about Hero Factory as a factor that would influence their feelings about those two masks. Probably because I never got into Hero Factory. Kinda took one look at it and went "Nope." So in my head, those masks don't belong to anybody else. Apologies again for never tracking down the two other knockoff masks. *sad face* 

[Mr. Cup of Fail]

Well you could have just don't put the knockoff armor on the toa that already have a knockoff piece. I think it would be great if Kualus had the knockoff shoulder armor. Also I do like Gaaki chest armor but not Kualus chest. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by ShadowWolfHount

[TommyG]

Hypothetically, if you were to ever get those two Final Fighters bootlegs would you add their masks to these mocs?

 

Nice mocs btw, and a very impressive collection.

[VBBN]

It's a shame these "bootlegs" were so difficult to find, they actually were one of the cooler sets of Bionicle wannabes. They were obviously inspired by Bionicle sets, but didn't really ripoff any parts at all. Interesting to see them used (and repainted) here.

 

The Toa themselves aren't anything earth shattering building wise of course but I like your choices of weapons. Also, having done extensive paintwork in the past, I have to commend you on matching the silver and gold colors, really good paint matching there. (Metallic can be the worst). The only character I'm not too keen on is Kualus. I'm not sure if it's the breastplate or the mask, but something feels off.

 

(If I ever happen to find those other two you're looking for for sale by some miracle I'll point you in the right direction, would love to see the more ideal team!)

[Sybre]

I've been blown away. This is the most glorious Toa team I've ever seen. Also, I found the use of bootleg parts to be quite interesting. It definitely expands your options and make the Toa more unique. I'm very impressed.

 

Although, once people start canonizing the Hagah (and it's only a matter of time), you're in for it, my friend.

[Munty]

Funnily enough the very last thing I did before coming across this topic was mention my own Hagah project (started on a whim from spare parts and never continued since!) I agree wholehearted my with your initial point that the Hagah are easily relatable and recognisable. For this reason I'm rather surprised at how little your custom creations have in common with the official sets...

 

When I sat down to this task I looked at which pieces the official sets shared and which they didn't. It comes down to shins, spearhead, chestplate, shoulders and mask IIRC. As well as a 1-stud height difference. My biggest gripe with your team is probably thr feet. Norik and Iruini have metru feet but the rest of your team have different ones which seems odd when there is already so much room for variation.

 

I also find the use of non-bionicle parts very jarring and frankly damaging to the overall aesthetic of the team. This is probably partly down to my inner purist (but that guy loved your rahkshi!) and partly down to the fact that you've taken such a different rout to how I imagine my team (one day) which is obviously down to bias.

 

It's not juat the non-bionicle parts that I find odd but also the places you've used one part for another function. A foot for chest armour for example and the metru weapons for shoulders seem strange to me. It works on larger titan sets and MoCs but my brain can't handle seeing it on canister sets. I don't find it condusive to being part of a team either when they're all so different!

 

I admit I took a simpler route for my attempt and decided to divide the sets into two general designs; gold with Iruini's build or silver with Norik's. They would each have different spearheads and shins as well but I kept it pretty simple. I did consider making a third scheme using pearl dark grey armour for more variety but there aren't many choices for weapons or armour that seemed usable IIRC.

 

That's another thing that bugs me about these, I just don't see any need to resort to so much painting. There was no choice with the Rahkshi (and something I'm working on has the same limitations) but for the Hagah I think you could have easily used pre-existing parts in the correct colours.

 

Apologies for the critical post, I think you've done a great job realising your vision. It's simply very different from my own and uses a lot of shortcuts in the way of painting and foreign parts that I generally don't like. It just doesn't feel like Bionicle to me anymore. Rather it's more like seeing a System based creation with loads of Mega Bloks in it. It can still be a great MoC but not as good as a purely system one imo!

 

Looking forward to your third project and keep up the modding

 

(For the record I think Gaaki and Kualus are the better two!)

Edited January 15, 2015 by Munty

[UnderscoreChronix]

The gold on Kualus is a little odd, but wow. These are nice. 

[Munty]

I think the gold on white works better than silver on white, it's the colour scheme I had planned for my set too  

[Xabla]

Where did you get the first 2 bootleg masks/sets?

[jimmybob83]

If I got the two other Blocko masks I probably would swap them out, yes, assuming they look as good in real life as they do in the two or three grainy images that exist of them.

 

 My biggest gripe with your team is probably thr feet. Norik and Iruini have metru feet but the rest of your team have different ones which seems odd when there is already so much room for variation.

The teams from the Inika onward had non-uniform feet, so I can't see how it's all that odd, exactly. Being already locked into the Metru body design, which as we all know isn't very adaptable or innovative, I wanted to branch out anywhere I could.

 

I also find the use of non-bionicle parts very jarring and frankly damaging to the overall aesthetic of the team. This is probably partly down to my inner purist (but that guy loved your rahkshi!) and partly down to the fact that you've taken such a different rout to how I imagine my team (one day) which is obviously down to bias.

 

It's not juat the non-bionicle parts that I find odd but also the places you've used one part for another function. A foot for chest armour for example and the metru weapons for shoulders seem strange to me. It works on larger titan sets and MoCs but my brain can't handle seeing it on canister sets.

 

Toa Matoro Mahri had a toa-foot on his chest and one of the red Glatorian had feet for shoulders so, again, I don't see the strangeness. To me, the BEST thing about Lego is using pieces in unexpected ways. No disrespect to any Toa-MOCers intended, but, I see all these hyper-detailed models with custom built torsos and limbs, and they're cool and all, but they don't get my blood pumping the same way as when I see something and think "Huh, I would never have thought to use that piece that way."

 

I don't find it condusive to being part of a team either when they're all so different!

 

But like you said earlier... Iruini and Norik had different chests, shoulders, shins, spears, and masks. So I gave them different chests, shoulders, shins, spears, and masks. And feet. And I'll again draw parallels to the Mahri and Ignika/Phantoka: pretty much no similarity between Toa, yet they were teams.

 

That's another thing that bugs me about these, I just don't see any need to resort to so much painting. There was no choice with the Rahkshi (and something I'm working on has the same limitations) but for the Hagah I think you could have easily used pre-existing parts in the correct colours.

 

I also have to strenuously disagree there. Count up the pieces released in Iruini-gold some time, it's depressingly low. Plenty of Brutaka-gold! But not this variety. Come to think of it, are there ANY other masks in that particular gold? I don't think the original 2001/2002 gold masks are quite the same...

 

Apologies for the critical post, I think you've done a great job realising your vision. It's simply very different from my own and uses a lot of shortcuts in the way of painting and foreign parts that I generally don't like. It just doesn't feel like Bionicle to me anymore. Rather it's more like seeing a System based creation with loads of Mega Bloks in it. It can still be a great MoC but not as good as a purely system one imo!

 

I know it's all opinion but, I'm completely opposite. I'm curious what Kanohi you'd use in your Hagah set. I get the feeling you'd re-use already-released Kanohi, since you don't like my unofficial ones. But if you did that, you'd have to do the lame excuse, "I know he wears the mask of growth, BUT, he just molded it into the shape of a mask of strength, because... reasons..." and I don't like that at all. And the other great thing, imo, about using the Blocko parts, and about using parts in unexpected ways, is that it sets them apart from the crowd. A Hagah set (or any Toa, really,) made of completely predictable parts doesn't even come close to sticking in my mind when I see it. It's in one ear, out the other. You call it a shortcut... I'll call it unique and distinctive flare. 

 

And I know a LOT of people are "purists," but again, I've never seen the logic in it. If Lego released the piece in that color, then it's cool, but if I paint it that color instead, it's evil? I don't get it. To me, as long as it's purdy, it's coo'. For example, if you look at my Bionicle collection on Brickshelf, what you don't see is what's dominating the other 50% of that room: my Star Wars collection. Do you know how many 100's of awesome figures Hasbro could make if they wanted, but never have? With the advent of 3d printing, and with it getting better and better, let's say someone comes out with a very very nice action figure of a person that Hasbro never made. Am I going to refuse to put it on my shelf because it's "unofficial" and therefore "unclean"? No, I'd love to have it. In fact I have an unofficial Transformers Quintesson about 4 feet from me. So again, I know it's personal opinion, but I've just never understood the "purist" viewpoint.  
 

[Munty]

The teams from the Inika onward had non-uniform feet, so I can't see how it's all that odd, exactly. Being already locked into the Metru body design, which as we all know isn't very adaptable or innovative, I wanted to branch out anywhere I could.

 

Toa Matoro Mahri had a toa-foot on his chest and one of the red Glatorian had feet for shoulders so, again, I don't see the strangeness. To me, the BEST thing about Lego is using pieces in unexpected ways. No disrespect to any Toa-MOCers intended, but, I see all these hyper-detailed models with custom built torsos and limbs, and they're cool and all, but they don't get my blood pumping the same way as when I see something and think "Huh, I would never have thought to use that piece that way."

 

But like you said earlier... Iruini and Norik had different chests, shoulders, shins, spears, and masks. So I gave them different chests, shoulders, shins, spears, and masks. And feet. And I'll again draw parallels to the Mahri and Ignika/Phantoka: pretty much no similarity between Toa, yet they were teams.

I also have to strenuously disagree there. Count up the pieces released in Iruini-gold some time, it's depressingly low. Plenty of Brutaka-gold! But not this variety. Come to think of it, are there ANY other masks in that particular gold? I don't think the original 2001/2002 gold masks are quite the same...

 

I know the later sets may have had non-uniform feet and odd parts in unusual places but for me, applying the rules of later sets to these earlier ones seems almost like retconning. Once the Inika used different feet, then it became the norm, as did the other things you mentioned. At the time of the Metru though, the feet were something that were uniform and the Hagah are clearly of the Metru build for the most part. With so many parts that are already non-standard in the Hagah, I feel like you don't really need to change the feet either which is probably why I latch onto it as a gripe.

 

The fact that Iruini and Norik (and therefore presumably all the Hagah) had different chests/shoulders/etc. is fine. I don't think anyone trying to build them would try to dispute that. The only issue I have with these is that they're non-standard parts so they just don't fit with the Metru build. One of them has a Glatorian head, that's pretty wierd right there. So he has an organic face? It just doesn't make any sense to me seeing that part on this body. I think our difference in opinion largely comes down to one thing and that's loyalty to official subject matter (I don't like the way that sounds, not sure how to reword it so it sounds less condescending though! Just know it isn't meant to ) I've always planned to use official parts in official colours for my team, preferably from around the correct time (so no Glatorian or Mahri parts if it can be helped) Obviouslky you made a different choice when you planned your team so of course I'm going to be biased! I know for a fact that I could finish my team and post it up here and you (and many others probably!) would find it very boring as it wouldn't have any of the extra flare that yours does and would be more akin to a clone team because that's how I see the Hagah, like the Metru. We're just in different camps but that doesn't stop me wanting to comment on yours because you've still done a good job, just not the way I would have done it

 

I know it's all opinion but, I'm completely opposite. I'm curious what Kanohi you'd use in your Hagah set. I get the feeling you'd re-use already-released Kanohi, since you don't like my unofficial ones. But if you did that, you'd have to do the lame excuse, "I know he wears the mask of growth, BUT, he just molded it into the shape of a mask of strength, because... reasons..." and I don't like that at all. And the other great thing, imo, about using the Blocko parts, and about using parts in unexpected ways, is that it sets them apart from the crowd. A Hagah set (or any Toa, really,) made of completely predictable parts doesn't even come close to sticking in my mind when I see it. It's in one ear, out the other. You call it a shortcut... I'll call it unique and distinctive flare. 

 

And I know a LOT of people are "purists," but again, I've never seen the logic in it. If Lego released the piece in that color, then it's cool, but if I paint it that color instead, it's evil? I don't get it. To me, as long as it's purdy, it's coo'. For example, if you look at my Bionicle collection on Brickshelf, what you don't see is what's dominating the other 50% of that room: my Star Wars collection. Do you know how many 100's of awesome figures Hasbro could make if they wanted, but never have? With the advent of 3d printing, and with it getting better and better, let's say someone comes out with a very very nice action figure of a person that Hasbro never made. Am I going to refuse to put it on my shelf because it's "unofficial" and therefore "unclean"? No, I'd love to have it. In fact I have an unofficial Transformers Quintesson about 4 feet from me. So again, I know it's personal opinion, but I've just never understood the "purist" viewpoint.   

 

Honestly? I had no idea the Hagah had canonical masks, not to mention unique ones! The only set I've built so far is Pouks as I had enough spare parts for him. I copied Norik's build for him as I made him silver. Gave him Nuju Metru's ae-pick think for a spear head and Axonn's mask purely for aesthetic reasons! So you're quite right that not only he but the other ones I make will also end up with non-canonical masks. It's a shame but I don't see much of a way round it honestly. I know what you mean about not having nice stuff just because it isn't official but I think Lego is different to other things. If I collected figures, I don't know how I'd feel about it. Would probably depend on whether I collected the whole series (like Bionicle) or just the ones I like. If it was the latter then I wouldn't care who made the figure but if it was the former I'd hang onto the packagin too so would feel any different ones wouldn't be part of the display. I could still display them together though so again it isn't really comparable to Lego which is generally easy to tell apart from competitors (especially for fellow collectors of course!)  The only comparison I can make is warships which I used to model a great deal. I never cared that they were made by different companies, so long as they were in the same scale. But that's because they all looked uniform as I built and painted them in the same way. Plus of ourse they were all unique in the first place sooo... I find it hard to compare Lego to anything else it seems

 

I wouldn't say it's evil to use a part in a different colour if you need that specific part for something you're making. I'd say it's easy though and I'd almost go so far as to say it's cheating but again that's just down to a difference in opinion. I'd certainly never belittle anyone's work becuase it used painted pieces, I applaud your creativity with the Rahkshi as I've said before. If you didn't paint and scuplt all those pieces it simply wouldn't be possible. I feel that with the Hagah though, such a simple project, it IS possible but that we just have to be clever about it. I didn't comment on the lack of gold pieces above but I know you're right as of course I looked for other masks back when I started off and there is little to nothing in that colour. This didn't make me want to paint something though as I felt it would never look as good as the rest of the team. It made me look for other solutions, like giving some members pearl dark grey armour or having Iruini be the only gold one (for whatever reason!) There are always ways around such problems (that's a lie, sometimes there aren't... usually ) if you look hard enough though. 

 

It's all matter of choice in the end. I think you've done a good job here, just not the way I would do it. If it was then I would think you've done a great job so take it as a critical compliment if you can Maybe one day I'll finish mine hey? Then you can return the favour and tell me how boring they are and how the masks are all wrong lol 

 

As a sidenote, I just saw your kraata topic. I can't help with the ones you needI'm afraid but I almost certainly need some of the ones you have spare so I'm going to pm you now about that

[Mate.397]

I'll give A for effort, Bomonga and Gaaki's masks look interesting, but overall I wouldn't really call it fully custom(yes I know they have customized looks,not custom builds making the word 'unique look for each' fit better), first off, they are just Toa Metru builds with some parts changed or different armor slapped on, second, painting pieces to make it fit is always a cheap way to build MOCs, it only shows that instead of thinking of an actual solution to the problem you just go around it to make it fit, Kualus' Breez mask just doesn't work in my opinion 

[jimmybob83]

I'll give A for effort, Bomonga and Gaaki's masks look interesting, but overall I wouldn't really call it fully custom(yes I know they have customized looks,not custom builds making the word 'unique look for each' fit better), first off, they are just Toa Metru builds with some parts changed or different armor slapped on, second, painting pieces to make it fit is always a cheap way to build MOCs, it only shows that instead of thinking of an actual solution to the problem you just go around it to make it fit, Kualus' Breez mask just doesn't work in my opinion 

Wow, we really love our semantics here on BZP, don't we?

 

Firstly, of COURSE they're just Toa Metru builds. They're Toa HAGAH.

 

Munty's been pretty much entirely civil, but I find the above post kind of rude. "Cheap way to build MOCs"? In my mind, you are missing the point entirely. Like, you're in another time zone entirely. Have you ever played an MMO? You ever notice in EVERY MMO in existence, there's a dying system for your armor? That's because everyone likes different things in different colors. Any MMO that doesn't have a good dying system is always criticized harshly for it. People don't want to "work within" the confines of pre-selected options when it comes to visual aspects of their model, people like variety! Nobody has ever thought, while looking at their MMO character: "Gee, I wish I could make those shoulder pads silver... but oh well, I respect the designers limitations forced upon me." No, we think, "Gee, I wish I could make those shoulder pads silver... and I will!" 

 

In my aesthetic personal opinion, Gaaki's current shoulder armor (for example,) was the best fit, as far as shape is concerned. I looked through all the available pieces, ordered a lot, tried on several, and thought they blended best. But they weren't the right color. Sooo I overcame the obstacle. If I did what you advocate, and used only pieces that Lego made silver, I'd be stuck with a shape that I liked less. 

 

Just tell me in what version of reality is it better to make a model of any kind that has less-visually-appealing pieces just for the sake of staying with Lego authenticity? I don't comprehend it. Trying to put myself into that limited shortsighted mindset makes my brain ooze out of my ears. 

 

Note: It's perfectly reasonable to not like a MOC because you don't like the look of it, or the pieces used. I'm just taking issue with the "painting is evil" mentality. 

 

 

 

Honestly? I had no idea the Hagah had canonical masks, not to mention unique ones! 

And a lot of people apparently didn't know about the 42 Rahkshi being a thing, either. I guess I rank pretty high in Bionicle knowledge.  

[Munty]

 

Munty's been pretty much entirely civil, 

 

I should hope so, that's exactly what I was going for We have completely different styles and preferences and there's no way for me to give ANY kind of feedback (critical or otherwise) without first acknowledging that. I'm glad I got that across, pretty much lol

 

Honestly? I had no idea the Hagah had canonical masks, not to mention unique ones! 

And a lot of people apparently didn't know about the 42 Rahkshi being a thing, either. I guess I rank pretty high in Bionicle knowledge. 

 

I don't think I was aware of that either until the post about Tahu stars and the Golden armour popped up recently to be honest! I always knew there were buttloads of wild Kraata to collect but I guess I'd never really thought about it before that. On the topic of Kraata I posted in your other topic. I can't offer you much but I will give you money for the majority of your spares if that helps you out

[BrickPharaoh]

Here is why I disagree with part modding/painting.

 

It is, in more ways than it isn't, cheating. The main objective of using LEGO is to fit everything with everything else. Not aesthetically of course, but standard-wise. As some people have said about the Rahkshi you made, I think they would probably fit better in the Fan Art forum, because of how different they have grown to become from pure LEGO. If your objective is to make a good-looking figure that does not adhere to any aesthetic standards/restrictions then by all means feel free to do that.

 

But in most cases modding is very purpose-oriented, and once the piece you have modded has served its purpose, there's very little else that you can do with it apart from keeping the MOC on the shelf. This creates the problem of reducing the combinability of the pieces in the future, making part-modding a very near-sighted approach to solving an arguably temporary problem. Let's be completely honest. I highly doubt anyone makes MOCs for the sole purpose of permanently displaying them on their shelf, in spite of how long they may stay there. The MOC might take as many revisions as deemed necessary by its maker and possibly the judgment/opinion of his/her peers, which modding sometimes gets in the way of.

 

These are reasons why I personally do not MOD and don't think I'll ever do, apart from possibly making 3D-printed decorative elements. If you have any criticism for my thought process please do let me know. Also I personally don't find much of a problem using foreign parts to LEGO on a MOC, not as much as I loathe modding at least. This is because it is mostly reversible since the MOC's will have to be dismantled eventually.

 

Edit: this is actually one of the reasons why I love using LDD, since, while a smaller variety of pieces is available in LDD than actual pieces produced, you are not limited by such things as quantities or arguably piece color (LDD offers a pretty decent color palette).

 

Hope I haven't bored you to death with my opinion LOL!

Edited January 16, 2015 by Mohamed Marei

[Munty]

But in most cases modding is very purpose-oriented, and once the piece you have modded has served its purpose, there's very little else that you can do with it apart from keeping the MOC on the shelf. This creates the problem of reducing the combinability of the pieces in the future, making part-modding a very near-sighted approach to solving an arguably temporary problem. Let's be completely honest. I highly doubt anyone makes MOCs for the sole purpose of permanently displaying them on their shelf, in spite of how long they may stay there. The MOC might take as many revisions as deemed necessary by its maker and possibly the judgment/opinion of his/her peers, which modding sometimes gets in the way of.

 

I have a VERY strong feeling that jimmybob has no intention of ever dismantling the Rahkshi. When you spend so long planning a project and checking your canon then sourcing and modding all the parts to end up with something you're absolutely happy with, it's not the kind of thing you're likely to take apart again. Put away maybe but not take apart... I also believe that by their nature it's probably unlikely that some of the rahkshi CANNOT be dismantled due to the modification processes involved. This was a choice he made when he embarked on the project because it would have been immediately clear to anyone that it was the only possible way to achieve the end result he was going for. 

 

Bear in mind that all of the parts he's used (including the non-lego parts in this set) were sourced specifically for the one purpose of bringing his vision to life.I'm not a big fan of chopping up parts either but I think in a way I'd rather see that than non-lego parts if I'm honest. Even within the Rahkshi, my favourites were the ones that used Bionicle parts I was familiar with as, even though I knew they were modifications, they felt more true to the source material by using Bionicle parts rather than other Lego lines or even non-lego parts.

[GMoney2020]

Wow those look great. 

[TommyG]

Here is why I disagree with part modding/painting.

 

It is, in more ways than it isn't, cheating. The main objective of using LEGO is to fit everything with everything else. Not aesthetically of course, but standard-wise. As some people have said about the Rahkshi you made, I think they would probably fit better in the Fan Art forum, because of how different they have grown to become from pure LEGO. If your objective is to make a good-looking figure that does not adhere to any aesthetic standards/restrictions then by all means feel free to do that.

 

But in most cases modding is very purpose-oriented, and once the piece you have modded has served its purpose, there's very little else that you can do with it apart from keeping the MOC on the shelf. This creates the problem of reducing the combinability of the pieces in the future, making part-modding a very near-sighted approach to solving an arguably temporary problem. Let's be completely honest. I highly doubt anyone makes MOCs for the sole purpose of permanently displaying them on their shelf, in spite of how long they may stay there. The MOC might take as many revisions as deemed necessary by its maker and possibly the judgment/opinion of his/her peers, which modding sometimes gets in the way of.

 

These are reasons why I personally do not MOD and don't think I'll ever do, apart from possibly making 3D-printed decorative elements. If you have any criticism for my thought process please do let me know. Also I personally don't find much of a problem using foreign parts to LEGO on a MOC, not as much as I loathe modding at least. This is because it is mostly reversible since the MOC's will have to be dismantled eventually.

 

Edit: this is actually one of the reasons why I love using LDD, since, while a smaller variety of pieces is available in LDD than actual pieces produced, you are not limited by such things as quantities or arguably piece color (LDD offers a pretty decent color palette).

 

Hope I haven't bored you to death with my opinion LOL!

If it's to do with "the main objective of LEGO", then would it kill them to stop showing parts in non-existent colours in their media of TV shows, movies, web content and so fourth all the time? There's still no "official" way of properly constructing a lot of the Matoran from 2001 or 2003 (especially if they're Le-Matoran or Onu-Matoran in the latter's case) and to this day they're still doing it with parts shown in The LEGO Movie in non-existent colours. I'd say there's perhaps enough of a good enough reason for modding in that case.

[Mate.397]

 

I'll give A for effort, Bomonga and Gaaki's masks look interesting, but overall I wouldn't really call it fully custom(yes I know they have customized looks,not custom builds making the word 'unique look for each' fit better), first off, they are just Toa Metru builds with some parts changed or different armor slapped on, second, painting pieces to make it fit is always a cheap way to build MOCs, it only shows that instead of thinking of an actual solution to the problem you just go around it to make it fit, Kualus' Breez mask just doesn't work in my opinion 

Wow, we really love our semantics here on BZP, don't we?

 

Firstly, of COURSE they're just Toa Metru builds. They're Toa HAGAH.

 

Munty's been pretty much entirely civil, but I find the above post kind of rude. "Cheap way to build MOCs"? In my mind, you are missing the point entirely. Like, you're in another time zone entirely. Have you ever played an MMO? You ever notice in EVERY MMO in existence, there's a dying system for your armor? That's because everyone likes different things in different colors. Any MMO that doesn't have a good dying system is always criticized harshly for it. People don't want to "work within" the confines of pre-selected options when it comes to visual aspects of their model, people like variety! Nobody has ever thought, while looking at their MMO character: "Gee, I wish I could make those shoulder pads silver... but oh well, I respect the designers limitations forced upon me." No, we think, "Gee, I wish I could make those shoulder pads silver... and I will!" 

 

In my aesthetic personal opinion, Gaaki's current shoulder armor (for example,) was the best fit, as far as shape is concerned. I looked through all the available pieces, ordered a lot, tried on several, and thought they blended best. But they weren't the right color. Sooo I overcame the obstacle. If I did what you advocate, and used only pieces that Lego made silver, I'd be stuck with a shape that I liked less. 

 

Just tell me in what version of reality is it better to make a model of any kind that has less-visually-appealing pieces just for the sake of staying with Lego authenticity? I don't comprehend it. Trying to put myself into that limited shortsighted mindset makes my brain ooze out of my ears. 

 

Note: It's perfectly reasonable to not like a MOC because you don't like the look of it, or the pieces used. I'm just taking issue with the "painting is evil" mentality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build"), not to mention I never said painting parts is "evil". Also MMOs have nothing to do with this, that's an entirely different idea, just because the computer/console game allows stupid amount of coloring doesn't excuse painting every single part with that mentality, with that thinking we could just do set builds and painting them, calling them MOCs, that way we'd degrade to the level of unoriginal character creators who think taking an already existing character and changing it's colors make it "original"

[Munty]

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build")....

 

Well it kind of does doesn't it... Hence the term "team build"...

[Mate.397]

 

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build")....

 

Well it kind of does doesn't it... Hence the term "team build"...

 

Crazy idea, give Iruini and Norik the same custom build, done, team build still

[Fsnorglepuff]

Haha I love the discussion about customized parts... these Toa Hagah are just as good as anything LEGO could have put out and I am thrilled by your choices to use non-LEGO masks. And your paint jobs are virtually flawless, something that takes a fellow MOCist a lot of experience (and failures) in order to appreciate. This makes the Final Fighter masks look like they really belong. I spent a lot of time sculpting masks only to discover that nothing beats molded or 3D printed parts, so I'm off to see if I can get a hold of Gaaki's mask... 

[Sassy Dalmation]

I really like these builds. They definitely fit in well with the other Hagah. One minor nitpick, though, is Bomonga. I imagine him bulkier than in this form. All in all though, they are great.

[jimmybob83]

Let's be completely honest. I highly doubt anyone makes MOCs for the sole purpose of permanently displaying them on their shelf, in spite of how long they may stay there. 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe this is our problem: we're speaking two different languages. I'm not a MOCer who lives for tinkering with Lego. I'm a COLLECTOR who lives to display full and beautiful collections. My Rahkshi and Hagah are going to be on my shelf FOR LIFE. To do anything other than that would be.... unthinkable. What kind of monster are you, dismantling your perfectly pretty and displayable Lego sets??

 

 

 

I have a VERY strong feeling that jimmybob has no intention of ever dismantling the Rahkshi. When you spend so long planning a project and checking your canon then sourcing and modding all the parts to end up with something you're absolutely happy with, it's not the kind of thing you're likely to take apart again.

What he said.

 

 

 

If it's to do with "the main objective of LEGO", then would it kill them to stop showing parts in non-existent colours in their media of TV shows, movies, web content and so fourth all the time? There's still no "official" way of properly constructing a lot of the Matoran from 2001 or 2003 (especially if they're Le-Matoran or Onu-Matoran in the latter's case) and to this day they're still doing it with parts shown in The LEGO Movie in non-existent colours. I'd say there's perhaps enough of a good enough reason for modding in that case.

What he said, too. It's ground my gears since 2000 that we couldn't actually make most of the old "Tohunga" Matoran. 

 

 

 

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build"), not to mention I never said painting parts is "evil". Also MMOs have nothing to do with this, that's an entirely different idea, just because the computer/console game allows stupid amount of coloring doesn't excuse painting every single part with that mentality, with that thinking we could just do set builds and painting them, calling them MOCs, that way we'd degrade to the level of unoriginal character creators who think taking an already existing character and changing it's colors make it "original"

.... What? 1) It's not an "entirely different idea." You want maximum customization in a MMO because you're going to be staring at your character for 1000 hours and you want to be looking at something pretty. These sets are going to be on my shelf for the rest of eternity; why would I do anything less then make them as appealing as possible? You're not making sense... 2) But... I didn't take someone else's thing, paint it, and call it new... I put a lot of thought into picking the pieces I did while consciously staying within the Iruini/Norik guidelines. So again... not really making any sense.

 

 

 

Crazy idea, give Iruini and Norik the same custom build, done, team build still

But then I wouldn't have the official Norik and Iruini on my shelf. They wouldn't be genuine. Why would I ruin the integrity of my collection like that? Seriously, we're speaking different languages here. 

 

 

 

Haha I love the discussion about customized parts... these Toa Hagah are just as good as anything LEGO could have put out and I am thrilled by your choices to use non-LEGO masks. And your paint jobs are virtually flawless, something that takes a fellow MOCist a lot of experience (and failures) in order to appreciate. This makes the Final Fighter masks look like they really belong. I spent a lot of time sculpting masks only to discover that nothing beats molded or 3D printed parts, so I'm off to see if I can get a hold of Gaaki's mask... 

Thanks very much

[Mate.397]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build"), not to mention I never said painting parts is "evil". Also MMOs have nothing to do with this, that's an entirely different idea, just because the computer/console game allows stupid amount of coloring doesn't excuse painting every single part with that mentality, with that thinking we could just do set builds and painting them, calling them MOCs, that way we'd degrade to the level of unoriginal character creators who think taking an already existing character and changing it's colors make it "original"

.... What? 1) It's not an "entirely different idea." You want maximum customization in a MMO because you're going to be staring at your character for 1000 hours and you want to be looking at something pretty. These sets are going to be on my shelf for the rest of eternity; why would I do anything less then make them as appealing as possible? You're not making sense... 2) But... I didn't take someone else's thing, paint it, and call it new... I put a lot of thought into picking the pieces I did while consciously staying within the Iruini/Norik guidelines. So again... not really making any sense.

 

 

 

Crazy idea, give Iruini and Norik the same custom build, done, team build still

But then I wouldn't have the official Norik and Iruini on my shelf. They wouldn't be genuine. Why would I ruin the integrity of my collection like that? Seriously, we're speaking different languages here. 

 

 

 

 

I'm also a collector too, so don't be on a high horse about that, it doesn't make you anything special, and yes you are taking an existing thing since it's part of the actual Bionicle lore, which last time I checked you didn't create. I'm baffled that you think painting and gluing parts  is superior to actual imagination and effort of building something.

[jimmybob83]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build"), not to mention I never said painting parts is "evil". Also MMOs have nothing to do with this, that's an entirely different idea, just because the computer/console game allows stupid amount of coloring doesn't excuse painting every single part with that mentality, with that thinking we could just do set builds and painting them, calling them MOCs, that way we'd degrade to the level of unoriginal character creators who think taking an already existing character and changing it's colors make it "original"

.... What? 1) It's not an "entirely different idea." You want maximum customization in a MMO because you're going to be staring at your character for 1000 hours and you want to be looking at something pretty. These sets are going to be on my shelf for the rest of eternity; why would I do anything less then make them as appealing as possible? You're not making sense... 2) But... I didn't take someone else's thing, paint it, and call it new... I put a lot of thought into picking the pieces I did while consciously staying within the Iruini/Norik guidelines. So again... not really making any sense.

 

 

 

Crazy idea, give Iruini and Norik the same custom build, done, team build still

But then I wouldn't have the official Norik and Iruini on my shelf. They wouldn't be genuine. Why would I ruin the integrity of my collection like that? Seriously, we're speaking different languages here. 

 

 

 

 

I'm also a collector too, so don't be on a high horse about that, it doesn't make you anything special, and yes you are taking an existing thing since it's part of the actual Bionicle lore, which last time I checked you didn't create. I'm baffled that you think painting and gluing parts  is superior to actual imagination and effort of building something.

 

Ok, let's break this down one final time.

 

1) "Existing thing." When you first said that, you were talking about sets. You were referring to taking a set, painting it blue, then calling it "new." You can't just change what you were referring to in the middle of an argument. 

 

2) "Imagination." If you'd bothered to read or study my topics in any detail, you'd have noticed that in my Rahkshi topic I talked about the spine design for the light blue one. See, for 10 years I always considered the notion of making the Rahkshi an impossible task, because they never made any different spines. Then one day I was INSPIRED by that spine design. There's nothing you can complain about in that particular design, because there is no cutting or painting involved in it. It's just a number of minifig weapons arranged cleverly in an alternating, interlocking manner. After ten years, realizing I could make my OWN spines, THAT way... It was an enormous inspiration that required a lot of imagination. So again... claiming that putting thought into customization lacks "imagination" doesn't make any sense. 

 

3) "Effort." Do I really need to explain the effort of Bricklink buying from dozens of shops, comparing pieces, painting, and getting a hold of the Block parts? 

 

I don't enjoy nitpicking over vocabulary and semantics but, you opened the can of worms, which I am now closing. You have your opinion. We all now know what it is, congratulations. You'll never change my opinion. So, that's the end of it.

[Mate.397]

I just love how you make yourself sound like a martyr for doing a simple task like searching for parts (Dozens of shops? Seriously? That just sounds laughable) and buying them, it's not like BrickLink has a shortage of supplies or anything. (I buy from BrickLink and from what I saw, you don't need a dozen shops to get the parts you need) And other people have made their own versions of spines long before you just throwing it out there, it's not like you reinvented the wheel here. (So get off your high horse already.)Plus just gluing the parts there makes it too easy, you don't really have to worry about fitting one piece to another when you can just glue it, the only thing you put effort into is switching to a different piece to glue on the next Rahkshii back piece. 

[Nescent]

You're going to be on the front page a lot. I love your use of Blocko pieces, both here and with the Rahkshi. There's not much that can be done with the standard Metru build, but there are a lot of nice techniques here - the Whenua shovels as shoulder armor look especially nice.

[Sassy Dalmation]

I just love how you make yourself sound like a martyr for doing a simple task like searching for parts (Dozens of shops? Seriously? That just sounds laughable) and buying them, it's not like BrickLink has a shortage of supplies or anything. (I buy from BrickLink and from what I saw, you don't need a dozen shops to get the parts you need) And other people have made their own versions of spines long before you just throwing it out there, it's not like you reinvented the wheel here. (So get off your high horse already.)Plus just gluing the parts there makes it too easy, you don't really have to worry about fitting one piece to another when you can just glue it, the only thing you put effort into is switching to a different piece to glue on the next Rahkshii back piece.

 

To look for the best price for the right part, checking if it delivers to the country, etc. Plus, from what I've seen most stores have more system bricks than anything else, and the parts that are their on that persons store may be very different from what he needs. So I can understand dozens.

 

It really is quite rude to bash on a great deal of hard work. Constructive criticism is one thing, but what you are doing is criticizing every little detail, for no reason other than bootleg and glued parts.

[TommyG]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To begin with, just because Iruini and Norik were released with the Metru build doesn't mean you have to stick with it (hence the term "custom build"), not to mention I never said painting parts is "evil". Also MMOs have nothing to do with this, that's an entirely different idea, just because the computer/console game allows stupid amount of coloring doesn't excuse painting every single part with that mentality, with that thinking we could just do set builds and painting them, calling them MOCs, that way we'd degrade to the level of unoriginal character creators who think taking an already existing character and changing it's colors make it "original"

.... What? 1) It's not an "entirely different idea." You want maximum customization in a MMO because you're going to be staring at your character for 1000 hours and you want to be looking at something pretty. These sets are going to be on my shelf for the rest of eternity; why would I do anything less then make them as appealing as possible? You're not making sense... 2) But... I didn't take someone else's thing, paint it, and call it new... I put a lot of thought into picking the pieces I did while consciously staying within the Iruini/Norik guidelines. So again... not really making any sense.

 

 

 

Crazy idea, give Iruini and Norik the same custom build, done, team build still

But then I wouldn't have the official Norik and Iruini on my shelf. They wouldn't be genuine. Why would I ruin the integrity of my collection like that? Seriously, we're speaking different languages here. 

 

 

 

 

I'm also a collector too, so don't be on a high horse about that, it doesn't make you anything special, and yes you are taking an existing thing since it's part of the actual Bionicle lore, which last time I checked you didn't create. I'm baffled that you think painting and gluing parts  is superior to actual imagination and effort of building something.

 

Ok, let's break this down one final time.

 

1) "Existing thing." When you first said that, you were talking about sets. You were referring to taking a set, painting it blue, then calling it "new." You can't just change what you were referring to in the middle of an argument. 

 

2) "Imagination." If you'd bothered to read or study my topics in any detail, you'd have noticed that in my Rahkshi topic I talked about the spine design for the light blue one. See, for 10 years I always considered the notion of making the Rahkshi an impossible task, because they never made any different spines. Then one day I was INSPIRED by that spine design. There's nothing you can complain about in that particular design, because there is no cutting or painting involved in it. It's just a number of minifig weapons arranged cleverly in an alternating, interlocking manner. After ten years, realizing I could make my OWN spines, THAT way... It was an enormous inspiration that required a lot of imagination. So again... claiming that putting thought into customization lacks "imagination" doesn't make any sense. 

 

3) "Effort." Do I really need to explain the effort of Bricklink buying from dozens of shops, comparing pieces, painting, and getting a hold of the Block parts? 

 

I don't enjoy nitpicking over vocabulary and semantics but, you opened the can of worms, which I am now closing. You have your opinion. We all now know what it is, congratulations. You'll never change my opinion. So, that's the end of it.

 

@ 2) That's quite interesting. It's awesome to see all the different, unexpected ways LEGO parts can connect together.

[TheWatchfulGuardian]

Wonderful! I'm really impressed by your Mocs, both these and the Rahkski. It reminds me of the wonderful Toa Hagah B:NG made back in the day.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bbb373/BNGposters/hagah.png