Mystical Bionicle vs. Epic Bionicle

[Toa Alvarno]

Towards the middle of Bionicle Gen 1, they started to turn the story a lot darker by introducing the Voya Nui storyline, and from then on, the whole atmosphere of the series, I could say, turned into more of an epic feel. Now that Bionicle has rebooted, it has gone back to that mystical feel, but which do you guys prefer? Would you rather they maintain this kind of atmosphere throughout the rest of the reboot or they gradually go back to the epic feel of 2006-2008?

[UnderscoreChronix]

I think the current wave is a bit of both. 

[Owlexander]

I liked the seriousness of G1 and hope that there's at least a bit of that seriousness here with G2.

[Iblis]

This is really ambiguous...

 

I don't care much for the Ignika Saga, making a 'jump' from 2005 to 2008 is what I sometimes do when ..."reminiscing", I liked the themes in the early years but I also liked the ""epicness"" of later years. I'd enjoy seeing both in G2, although if I'm thinking of the correct types of epic feelings; I think that would require a huge amount of world building to be able to pull it off, & well... I'm not sure how much I trust that a dramatic delivery change is going to happen so I think it's going to take a while for that to happen.

 

Oh yeah & I don't see them as mutually incompatible, but hey, descriptive words are great.

[RahiSpeak]

I would like it to go through phases. Start in the mystical phase then build into the epic phase as the conflict reaches its climax, then sustain that for a little while. After that, settle back into the mystical and even somewhat mysterious phase as the Toa ponder the repercusions of "defeating" evil. Out of nowhere they make a discovery that rapidly brings it back into epic.

 

Essentially, I would like the mystical phase to be for the expansion of the world and developement of story while the epic phase is for nearing the seeming end of the conflict. Because these things often go hand in hand, they would probably be interspersed throughout the year while maintaining a prevailing mood. This mood would change from year to year.

[Irrie]

I loved the dark and gritty feel of Ignition, especially the Inika and Mahri sagas. The bizarre masks, the scary enemies, the amazing titans, it all gave a lot of improvement to Bionicle's story. I even loved the silver Inika builds of the Mistika saga (yeah I know, I'm a heretic). 

In G2, it's pretty apparent that they're starting out with a mystical feel, but I really hope that it becomes more epic as time goes on. 

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I think the current wave is a bit of both. 

I agree with this. There isn't nearly as much mystery as 2001 and the world-building is handled in a completely different manner. It doesn't feel very mystical per se, it feels more like it has elements of the later years in its explicitly action-packed story (Epic, as you said). It's like taking the established format of the more action/fantasy feel of Bionicle and applying it to the simpicity and straightforwardness of the original years, but I don't think it captures mystical feel very well.

 

2001 gave you a world to a explore and digest before taking part in the conflict. 2015 just throws you in the conflict right away. Nothing wrong with that - I like the direction this reboot is going, but to say it feels like the first years of Bionicle is overstating it in my opinion.

 

-NotS

[Archon~]

Epic saga definitely.

[Xabla]

Mysterious.

[ToaDraco]

I loved the Ignika ark and I loved the seriousness and epic tone it set, so yes that should return. That being said, why not both? I think they could have the mystery while also have an epic tone. Having villains that pose a threat aren't going mess around and I want villains that are intimidating and ruthless. Having the setting be mysterious while the conflicts are epic and dire would be a good balance between the two 'feels' imo.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ToaDraco

[MrSciFiGuy]

It is probably just a phase, just like how Gen 1 opened up. We got 3 years of storyline to expect, and they will be full of adventure and island mystery. From then we will have to see if they really open up the world and how much depth they go into.

[Xabla]

Yeah. Their needs to be about a balance and mix of both.

[fishers64]

I lean towards epic, but taking all of the mystical feel away isn't the way to go. You have to start with mystical and build up the epicness, and you can't rush straight to the epic without taking the time to establish the mystical atmosphere of it all. 

 

You have to establish the mystery before you can solve it. Solving it is what gives the enemies the incentive to come and fight the protagonists, and that's how you get epic.

[Adventurer]

Personally I prefer mystical, but I think a good balance of both is the best for the series. Maybe have cycles starting with mystery and ending in epic conclusions? Not an insightful thought, but I think that's what they've kind of aimed for a lot of the time.

[Prime Axiom]

 False dichotomy. 

Mystical vibes can feel epic so long as the story is well written

[Cressona]

I think it's all about the balance-- what first attracted me to Bionicle was the mystical aspects of it, but after a lull of interest in 2005, what got me back into it was the beginnings of that less mythological, epic feel that the Ignition quest brought, and the vast amount of lore and world to explore.

 

In G2, there's a chance they can hit on both points, and even be more on-point than G1, especially in the later years.  Where G1 missed the mark, I think, was the scale and complexity of the world and the byzantine plotlines, first in the serials and side-quests, but eventually bleeding into the main story.  With a simplified, streamlined G2, we may see the mythical elements that made early G1 such a success as we get to know Okoto, and as the Toa go on their quest and interact with legendary figures like Ekimu; but as the story goes on, if they manage to keep the world trimmed down and the plot focused directly on the main heroes and villains, we may be able to see the scale of the story expand significantly without also incurring the heavy burdens that G1 took on as it did so.

[believe victims]

I prefer what isn't quite a split between mystical and epic, which I would like to call "mythical". It's got the story of an epic but the magic and mystery of mystical. I can definitely say I never want to go back to the atmosphere of 2006 onward; that grimdark atmosphere did not suit Bionicle well.

[Xabla]

I think dark and mysterious suited Bionicle. 

[Irrie]

I think dark and mysterious suited Bionicle. 

It did. It was a huge improvement from what we were getting earlier. The flashy armor, the overly bright colors, they were all wrong. The dark colors and metallic armor added some new flavor and zest to the story. 

[Xabla]

 

I think dark and mysterious suited Bionicle. 

It did. It was a huge improvement from what we were getting earlier. The flashy armor, the overly bright colors, they were all wrong. The dark colors and metallic armor added some new flavor and zest to the story. 

 

Yeah. In 2005 I was like, where are the colors?

[dviddy]

I quibble entirely with the split between "mystical" and "epic".

 

The earlier stories had a very mystical, legendary story feel to them, something that made the story seem larger-than-life, and that seems more to match the "epic" description I've seen elsewhere. Nothing about the latter years screams "epic" to me, it's a more closely-told story where the main characters are more defined than any others, little-to-no world-building, and personal tasks that are said to have Universe-wide repercussions, but don't seem to be written that way. A more descriptive split would definitely be the "lighthearted/mythical vs grimdark" split the story clearly possesses. Or the "fantasy to science fiction" split where the more mystical elements were all explained away as made-up-technobabble.

 

But trying to cut it as "mystical vs epic" seems to be a purposefully leading description where you've set the topic up to purposefully go a certain direction.

[Tuuli]

I liked the earlier, more "voodoo" years of bionicle mainly 2001-2003 saga on the island of Mata-nui which is to date my always favorite location.

[Irrie]

 

 

I think dark and mysterious suited Bionicle. 

It did. It was a huge improvement from what we were getting earlier. The flashy armor, the overly bright colors, they were all wrong. The dark colors and metallic armor added some new flavor and zest to the story. 

 

Yeah. In 2005 I was like, where are the colors?

 

I seriously don't know what you're talking about, there were plenty of colors in 2005, as well as some new color combinations that were introduced. Lego also experimented with metallics some more, which gave us some nice-looking Hordika (if you discount their gapyness). The metallic + dark color combinations really gave the sets some new flavor. 

[Saint-14]

I enjoyed the fact that Bionicle matured as the fanbase did. Yes, there would always be children buying it, but the large fanbase that was established in the early years were kept in the loop as the story made sure to keep both the young and old fans entertained

 

So I would want the new generation to do the same, although having more epic story lines would be great

[Hewkii8730]

I hope lego try something new and exciting

[Lyichir]

 

 

 

I think dark and mysterious suited Bionicle.

It did. It was a huge improvement from what we were getting earlier. The flashy armor, the overly bright colors, they were all wrong. The dark colors and metallic armor added some new flavor and zest to the story.

 

Yeah. In 2005 I was like, where are the colors?

 

I seriously don't know what you're talking about, there were plenty of colors in 2005, as well as some new color combinations that were introduced. Lego also experimented with metallics some more, which gave us some nice-looking Hordika (if you discount their gapyness). The metallic + dark color combinations really gave the sets some new flavor.

 

The Visorak used some interesting color combos. The Hordika just used the dull Toa Metru color schemes, with added silver (which they had already had for weapons anyway). Keep in mind, by 2005 Lego had been "experimenting" with metallic colors for three full years. The Toa Hagah combined two of those same color schemes with metallic colors... but only Iruini combined those colors in a new way. And of the titan sets, only Keetongu had a color scheme that hadn't been seen before, thanks largely to using a primary color that was new for that year.

 

2005 had more visually interesting color schemes than 2004, I'll grant you that. But the Metru era in general was the most drab era of Bionicle as far as color schemes were concerned, and every year after 2005 (and before 2004) made much better use of color than those years.

[boston100]

I really like the mystical feel. Both are gret but playing Mnog with the mystic feel was the greatest. There are thousands of epic stories but few mystical ones in the way bionicle was

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

I'm gonna have to agree with others in saying "epic" isn't really the descriptor of choice for seperating 2005-2009 from 2001-2004, and that "needlessly and hilariously grim" is probably a better use of words.

 

Honestly, Mystical Epic Bionicle would be my preferred bionicle. :t

Edited February 17, 2015 by Rahkshi Lalonde

[toa kopaka4372]

I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy here. Mystical and epic aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact often go hand-in-hand.

 

Nonetheless, I would like G2 BIONICLE to go down the same path as G1 did. Start out small with a mysterious, unexplored world with many mysteries before expanding it and providing answers to those mysteries. G1 did it almost perfectly, and I'd like G2 to do something similar, while still retaining its own identity.

[Lyichir]

I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy here. Mystical and epic aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact often go hand-in-hand.

 

Nonetheless, I would like G2 BIONICLE to go down the same path as G1 did. Start out small with a mysterious, unexplored world with many mysteries before expanding it and providing answers to those mysteries. G1 did it almost perfectly, and I'd like G2 to do something similar, while still retaining its own identity.

I too would love to see that so long as they don't make the original Bionicle's mistake of answering ALL the mysteries and filling in all the empty spaces. By the end of the story there was precious little in the Matoran Universe that HADN'T been explored. And thanks to the way the story kept raising the stakes of the Toa's quest, there was little doubt that any far-flung Toa teams you could conceive of (on the tiny southern islands, perhaps) couldn't achieve anything on the scale of the main characters without interfering with the main story.

 

Perhaps that was the natural consequence of writing a bounded universe, but nonetheless it was creatively limiting to the nth degree. I hope the new story never loses the sense that there are still unexplored frontiers bursting with stories waiting to be told.

[toa kopaka4372]

 

I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy here. Mystical and epic aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact often go hand-in-hand.

 

Nonetheless, I would like G2 BIONICLE to go down the same path as G1 did. Start out small with a mysterious, unexplored world with many mysteries before expanding it and providing answers to those mysteries. G1 did it almost perfectly, and I'd like G2 to do something similar, while still retaining its own identity.

I too would love to see that so long as they don't make the original Bionicle's mistake of answering ALL the mysteries and filling in all the empty spaces. By the end of the story there was precious little in the Matoran Universe that HADN'T been explored. And thanks to the way the story kept raising the stakes of the Toa's quest, there was little doubt that any far-flung Toa teams you could conceive of (on the tiny southern islands, perhaps) couldn't achieve anything on the scale of the main characters without interfering with the main story.

 

Perhaps that was the natural consequence of writing a bounded universe, but nonetheless it was creatively limiting to the nth degree. I hope the new story never loses the sense that there are still unexplored frontiers bursting with stories waiting to be told.

 

I see where you're coming from, but I think there was still plenty you could explore in the Matoran Universe. The Southern Islands, which you mentioned, were never really explored, and there are large chunks in the universe's history that haven't been elaborated on. Plus, G1 ended with Spherus Magna, leaving us with an entire unexplored planet. And while perhaps classic BIONICLE answered too many questions, it at least left some of the big ones mostly intact, like the Great Beings, whom we still know very little about. 

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

 And while perhaps classic BIONICLE answered too many questions, it at least left some of the big ones mostly intact, like the Great Beings, whom we still know very little about. 

 

 

Honestly, we know more about them than we probably should. :t

[Iblis]

 

Honestly, we know more about them than we probably should. :t

 

 

I strongly agree, although I think it's one of those cases where adding more information would make it less bad; I feel that where it was left at was a dip in a graph. It gave enough information to destroy any interesting mystery in it, & simply look like a half-written case of imagination-failure...

[banana92]

I like the way it is starting, with the mysterious feel, your not coming into the world with all the details right in your face, you're discovering as the discover, which leads to a majestic feeling, and over time evolves into an epic, when the discovery have been made, and you realize you tasks, in G1, we started on mata-nui, and all we knew was it was a tropical paradise in trouble, and it slowly grew from there, this also allows the writer time and means to introduce knew things with out having to tell you where they came from, its part of the mystery, if in the beginning, you are told who is the hero, who is the villain, and there overall goal, then you've been told the whole story, because you know the good guys will win, and any of this is left a mystery, then you never know what to expect next, because it leaves room for change, but hey that's my rant for another day, both styles have there perks, a mystery for ever will fill itself with detail, and an epic forever we soon be unable to compete with itself without repetition.

[graywolf89]

I like the way it is starting, with the mysterious feel, your not coming into the world with all the details right in your face, you're discovering as the discover, which leads to a majestic feeling, and over time evolves into an epic, when the discovery have been made, and you realize you tasks, in G1, we started on mata-nui, and all we knew was it was a tropical paradise in trouble, and it slowly grew from there, this also allows the writer time and means to introduce knew things with out having to tell you where they came from, its part of the mystery, if in the beginning, you are told who is the hero, who is the villain, and there overall goal, then you've been told the whole story, because you know the good guys will win, and any of this is left a mystery, then you never know what to expect next, because it leaves room for change, but hey that's my rant for another day, both styles have there perks, a mystery for ever will fill itself with detail, and an epic forever we soon be unable to compete with itself without repetition.

 

 

There isn't really any mystery to Okoto at all, because the story is just that sparse. So far we know that there are six elemental regions, but that's it. We haven't even visited the villages yet, even though we're about half way through the webisodes. You need to know some stuff in order to have a mystery. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by graywolf89

[Tarvaxx]

As longs as legends and myths aren't fake and they don't try to science-ify everything like they did in the later years, which really took away the original atmosphere it had (giving everything a logical explanation later on, instead of letting myths and legends be the true reality. The real world has science and logic. It's not fun in the real world. Let's not try and drain fun out of something that has artistic freedom. Let's make magic and mystery the actual driving force). Then yeah, I'll be really happy.

 

The best way to describe it is to use Pokemon as an example. Groudon and Kyogre control land and sea, now let's say later Pokemon became logic obsessed and decided to say that the sun gets really hot during a specific time and during that time Groudon likes to come out and bathe in that heat, or a similar description for Kyogre. Not only that, but they come up with a very convoluted and detailed description for what elements "really" are and how they work so it makes logical sense.

[UngluedBike]

I like a combo, but not with as much of a childish feel as G2.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Definitely epic. I consider 2004-2008 to be the best years of G1 (especially 2004, 2007 and 2008).

[CaT in Rogue]

I like a good combination of both, though I have to say I lean bit more towards the epic side. I'm somewhat impatient, and rarely find something too ambiguous too interesting.