Why is Keetongu considered a Rahi?

[Zidonaro]

Really, why? He has a humanoid shape, walks on two legs, super intelligent, able to speak his own language, can use tools, can communicate with Matoran if there's a translator availabe, and even uses Tahtorak as steeds. He's as smart as a Skakdi or a Vortixx.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Zidonaro

[Nato G]

Basically, Matoran are kinda speciesist? 

According to canon, the word rahi literally translates to "not us" in the Matoran language. So it can be applied to absolutely any other creature or species. 

[Master Inika]

I wonder if Keetongu's species were created by the Makuta out of viruses and liquid protodermis. That's probably the most objective definiton of Rahi we'll get, even if some (like Crystal Serpents and Protodax) do not fit that description.

[Humble_Matoran]

Let's not forget our big orange boi made the cover of a dark hunters book

[TuragaNuva]

3 hours ago, Humble_Matoran said:

Let's not forget our big orange boi made the cover of a dark hunters book

Well, technically that was Triglax.

[Xboxtravis]

8 hours ago, Master Inika said:

I wonder if Keetongu's species were created by the Makuta out of viruses and liquid protodermis. That's probably the most objective definiton of Rahi we'll get, even if some (like Crystal Serpents and Protodax) do not fit that description.

That is my thoughts too, some Makuta created Keetongu perhaps as a purposeful anti-dote to the Visorak. Then when the Makuta turned evil they hunted down his species.

[Sir Kohran]

16 hours ago, Gecko Greavesy said:

Basically, Matoran are kinda speciesist? 

According to canon, the word rahi literally translates to "not us" in the Matoran language. So it can be applied to absolutely any other creature or species. 

Would Krana, Kraata and Makuta count as Rahi too then?

Edited April 6, 2021 by Sir Kohran

[Master Inika]

11 hours ago, Xboxtravis said:

That is my thoughts too, some Makuta created Keetongu perhaps as a purposeful anti-dote to the Visorak. Then when the Makuta turned evil they hunted down his species.

That's a really cool headcanon. This does presume that Keetongu's species were created after or alongside the Visorak. For some reason I assumed his species would have been older.

4 hours ago, Sir Kohran said:

Would Krana, Kraata and Makuta count as Rahi too then?

According to BS01, Matoran consider Krana and Kraata (and even Shadow Leeches) to be Rahi, "even though they are not", but not Makuta. It raises some really interesting questions about epistemology--how can Matoran identify something as a Rahi and be wrong? Since the definition is already so subjective, isn't anything Matoran consider Rahi technically one?

[Humble_Matoran]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:37 AM, TuragaNuva said:

Well, technically that was Triglax.

"oops" -Lego

But yeah, it is kind of a weird subject. Matoran definitely see krana as rahi, which I can see in their mind, and especially since the queens are rahi. Kraata is a weird though because I always veiwed them as 'extensions' of Makuta...I wouldn't necessarily call that a rahi, but I honestly don't know what I would classify it. Kind of like Makuta now has his own 'species', for lack of a better term. 

12 hours ago, Master Inika said:

epistemology--how can Matoran identify something as a Rahi and be wrong? Since the definition is already so subjective, isn't anything Matoran consider Rahi technically one?

Good point though, I guess it depends on who is defining things and the matter of perspective. Especially since the games were from the matorans' perspective

[Master Inika]

10 hours ago, Humble_Matoran said:

"oops" -Lego

But yeah, it is kind of a weird subject. Matoran definitely see krana as rahi, which I can see in their mind, and especially since the queens are rahi. Kraata is a weird though because I always veiwed them as 'extensions' of Makuta...I wouldn't necessarily call that a rahi, but I honestly don't know what I would classify it. Kind of like Makuta now has his own 'species', for lack of a better term. 

Good point though, I guess it depends on who is defining things and the matter of perspective. Especially since the games were from the matorans' perspective

According to BS01, even the Bahrag are in that not-Rahi-but-considered-Rahi-by-Matoran category.

Rahi are, to us, a type of fauna in a fictional LEGO franchise. For us to disagree with the characters in the fictional franchise about what is a Rahi creates a weird objective definition for something that we know it's real. Imagine if Pikachu wasn't really a Pokémon--Ash Ketchum and Professor Oak just erroneously thought he was.

[Lenny7092]

I am wondering about that, too. Don’t forget Krahka the shape-shifting Rahi and the Tahtorak the giant green lizard Rahi. They are intelligent, too.

[Lorentz]

Because he was made by the Makuta. 

[Zidonaro]

17 hours ago, Lenny7092 said:

I am wondering about that, too. Don’t forget Krahka the shape-shifting Rahi and the Tahtorak the giant green lizard Rahi. They are intelligent, too.

Tahtorak has more of a beast/dragon shape and can barely speak Matoran, so I can understand why he is considered a Rahi. But yes, I wouldn't consider Krahka a Rahi. 

[Disciple]

Did you watch Godzilla vs. Kong? Kong walks on two legs, uses tools, intelligently strategizes and even communicates through sign language. But at the end of the day, he's still a giant ape. 

[Zidonaro]

1 hour ago, Disciple said:

Did you watch Godzilla vs. Kong? Kong walks on two legs, uses tools, intelligently strategizes and even communicates through sign language. But at the end of the day, he's still a giant ape. 

He can't speak. Keetongu even has his own complex language. I think we would have to see if his species had an advanced civilization built with cities and the likes, but since all his members were wiped out, we can't.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Zidonaro

[Smudge8]

Loved reading what's been said so far. I'm most inclined to think that creatures like keetongu and krahka are rahi simply because the matoran say so. 

That being said, keetongu's species might have gotten labeled as rahi because they isolated themselves (wether intentionally or not) from the wider matoran society.

[Master Inika]

New theory: Keetongu is the only Keetongu who can actually speak, like Meowth.

Imagine Keetongu finally reuniting with his species (in an alternative universe or something) and they all just grunt incoherently

[Lorentz]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:57 PM, Smudge8 said:

Loved reading what's been said so far. I'm most inclined to think that creatures like keetongu and krahka are rahi simply because the matoran say so. 

That being said, keetongu's species might have gotten labeled as rahi because they isolated themselves (wether intentionally or not) from the wider matoran society.

Why is it so hard to believe that it's simply because Makuta created them?

[Zidonaro]

5 hours ago, Lorentz said:

Why is it so hard to believe that it's simply because Makuta created them?

Because being created by Makuta isn't a requisite to be a Rahi, as various other Rahi were created by the Great Beigns and even Artakha.

[TERIDAX941]

17 hours ago, Zidonaro said:

Because being created by Makuta isn't a requisite to be a Rahi, as various other Rahi were created by the Great Beigns and even Artakha.

That makes me wonder, did the Makuta make any other type of beings other than Rahi? Rahi creation was their primary job before they went power crazy, but did they actually create other things too? (Not including Rahkshi, and the poor souls they mutated *cough*Voporak*cough*)

Edited April 17, 2021 by TERIDAX941

[Lorentz]

21 hours ago, Zidonaro said:

Because being created by Makuta isn't a requisite to be a Rahi, as various other Rahi were created by the Great Beigns and even Artakha.

Okay, well how about made from viruses then?

Edited April 17, 2021 by Lorentz

[Max_Nui]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:12 PM, Lorentz said:

Okay, well how about made from viruses then?

According to Biosector01 concerning the Crystal Serpents:  "Artakha did not use viruses to create the Crystal Serpents."

So, unfortunately specifying virus doesn't work either.

https://biosector01.com/wiki/Crystal_Serpents

It might be helpful to find a list of all rahi created without viruses.

[Lorentz]

14 hours ago, Max Nui said:

According to Biosector01 concerning the Crystal Serpents:  "Artakha did not use viruses to create the Crystal Serpents."

So, unfortunately specifying virus doesn't work either.

https://biosector01.com/wiki/Crystal_Serpents

It might be helpful to find a list of all rahi created without viruses.

Considering that Crystal Serpents are a unique, one-off experiment (and there's only four of them) I wouldn't classify them as real Rahi.

[TheLegoRoleplayer]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:04 AM, Lorentz said:

Because he was made by the Makuta. 

That's incorrect, Keetongu was not made by Makuta as far as we know. We have no confirmation on Keetongu's origin, nor that of the rest of his race. So we don't know if he was made from Viruses, or Makuta, or by anyone really. And with how many random races Mata Nui and the Great Beings created, he could just as been created by either of them rather than the Makuta. 

[TERIDAX941]

I would imaging the reason why he's called a rahi is because the Rahaga (and Roodaka at a later date) called him that. Since the Rahaga are the self proclaimed Rahi experts, I'm certain they'd know whether he's a true "Rahi" or some other species like many of the Dark hunters were. (there are many Dark Hunters that are very animalistic but they're considered an actual species, it wouldn't surprise me that a Rahi would be quite intelligent, but still be considered a Rahi)

[Lorentz]

21 hours ago, TheLegoRoleplayer said:

That's incorrect, Keetongu was not made by Makuta as far as we know.

Virtually every single Rahi was made by the Brotherhood of Makuta; that was their whole job. The Great Beings designed the original specimens then the Makuta made the rest. Artahka tried making Rahi once and it didn't really work out. Beyond that, everything else was pumped out of the Makuta's lairs. 

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

For what it’s worth, there seem to be two different definitions of Rahi: the Matoran definition and the real definition. The Matoran think anything foreign, alien or otherwise dissimilar to them is a Rahi. It needs to have at least one of so many traits (it can speak, it’s a biped, it has discernible facial features, etc.) in order to be considered a “person.” The actual definition is more specific: it is a large marine creature created by the Great Beings or it is any creature created by the Makuta using viruses...or it’s a Crystal Serpent.

It’s kind of like an inverse situation of the word “animal” in the real world: a lot of people use it to describe any creature that isn’t human, implying humans are distinct from animals. But the actual definition is any organism in the kingdom Animalia, which includes, of course, humans.

By the way, there is also a third definition that fell out of use early on. In 2002, the official site had two sections for non-sapient character bios: “Rahi” and “Creatures.” The Rahi section only included the Rahi released as Titan sets in 2001, while the Creatures section had the Rahi that could be built using the Master Builder Set. The implication was that the name “Rahi” specifically referred to large, dangerous animals that Makuta fitted with Infected Masks.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[MR.StrawBerry13]

On 4/6/2021 at 8:39 AM, Nato The Whisperer said:

Basically, Matoran are kinda speciesist? 

According to canon, the word rahi literally translates to "not us" in the Matoran language. So it can be applied to absolutely any other creature or species. 

imagine them just calling agori rahi

[Lorentz]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:37 AM, MR.StrawBerry13 said:

imagine them just calling agori rahi

Rahi is their word for beast or animal. The literal translation of the word is "not us" but that doesn't really matter, because there's a lot of words in english that have meanings that don't line up perfectly to their literal composition. Butterfly and kidnap are some examples.

Also, If you saw a giant talking orangutan, you still might call him an animal or beast, although maybe not to his face. But if you saw very human-like aliens, you wouldn't call them that at all. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Lorentz

[confused piraka]

you would think the Matoran of Metru Nui would not call them Rahi because(in my view)they are smarter