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33 minutes ago, Lorentz said:

Icarax already acts exactly like Starscream

Granted, Starscream's whole schtick was being a snivelling, bombastic weasel who thought he could do better than Megatron, but never did anything to back that up or actually accomplish anything meaningful. Whereas Icarax at least had a reputation for being a formidable warrior, and was allegedly the best hand-to-hand combatant in the Brotherhood. 

Edited by Nato G

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Nato G said:

Whereas Icarax at least had a reputation for being a formidable warrior

That describes Starscream too. It's the only reason why Megatron keeps him around. Icarax isn't as obnoxious as Starscream, that's their main difference, so I'm curious why anyone would want him to be more like his parallel. 

Edited by Lorentz

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On 4/7/2022 at 9:00 PM, Lorentz said:

Icarax already acts exactly like Starscream, how would you have him act more like him?

Both of them fighting each other, like Icarax finding Teridax, so he would fight him. He would have first attack Teridax from behind to start a fight. It would be interesting if Icarax would try to control the Great Spirit Robot, but would have tot fight Teridax for it first.

Edited by Lenny7092
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5 hours ago, Lenny7092 said:

Both of them fighting each other, like Icarax finding Teridax, so he would fight him. He would have first attack Teridax from behind to start a fight. It would be interesting if Icarax would try to control the Great Spirit Robot, but would have tot fight Teridax for it first.

I see. I suppose it would have been cool to see them go toe to toe, but with the way the story was written, it wouldn't have been possible. I guess they could have just given us more details during the Mutran Chronicles flashback, but if not, a lot of things about the 2008 storyline would have had to been different. Namely, Teridax and Icarax were in totally different places the entire time.

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On 7/10/2021 at 12:34 AM, TERIDAX941 said:

I would've kept Tahu as a Nuva. Golden Armor is cool, but I loved his Nuva look, and I like to keep the Nuva as a complete team, not 5 and a tag on.

I also would have let Krika survive, maybe let him assist the heroes during their rebellion against Teridax.

I agree, even if he's stronger than he was as a toa nuva, the adaptive armor should have a nuva armored form setting look. The golden armor having only been created for the mata design was stupid since the stars set is a av-matoran build which looks nothing like the toa mata body.

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/18/2022 at 12:16 PM, (-Kopaka Toa of Ice-) said:

I agree, even if he's stronger than he was as a toa nuva, the adaptive armor should have a nuva armored form setting look. The golden armor having only been created for the mata design was stupid since the stars set is a av-matoran build which looks nothing like the toa mata body.

Well, the Story Team were forced to work with what they were given. The Set Designers didn't make the Stars with any story in mind whatsoever, they just made chibi versions of iconic characters throughout the years. It kinda sucks, but that's the only reason they did it. If they made Tahu Star based on the Nuva version, this whole mess would have been avoided.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I definitely wish they had handled the switch to Bara Magna differently. My interest in the story definitely fell off a lot at that point. Since then, I've learned a lot more about the story of Spherus Magna (thanks to Duckbricks' 9-hour story overview) and it's very interesting, but going straight from the rich, incredible world within the GSR to this postapocalyptic Mad Max world we didn't know or care about wasn't great IMO.

One possible route they could have gone with it (assuming they were able to continue Bionicle for a few more years) would be to, after Teridax took over the GSR and ejected the Ignika, flashback to when Spherus Magna was whole, introduce what the world was like at that point, learn about Annona, show how the Great Beings broke off from the rest of the population, the discovery of energized protodermis and how that affected the world, and the development of the prototype GSR and eventually the final GSR. For the story, to keep people who cared about the Matoran universe interested, you could keep cutting away from the Spherus Magna A-plot and showing how things inside the GSR were going after Teridax took over. From what I've seen, there's a lot of stuff going on at that point that we never see in the comics, so it would have allowed them to flesh that out a lot more while also giving us a reason to care about Spherus Magna and want to see it reformed. Then, you could basically keep the Bara Magna story the same from that point.

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20 hours ago, Kopekemaster said:

I definitely wish they had handled the switch to Bara Magna differently. My interest in the story definitely fell off a lot at that point. Since then, I've learned a lot more about the story of Spherus Magna (thanks to Duckbricks' 9-hour story overview) and it's very interesting, but going straight from the rich, incredible world within the GSR to this postapocalyptic Mad Max world we didn't know or care about wasn't great IMO.

I like your thinking; definitely agree that while Bara Magna was an interesting concept, the way we were thrust into it was pretty alienating at the time.

Another possible route I can see could have been to have just a few familiar characters possibly escaping the GSR to follow Mata Nui into space; the story could have followed them as they landed on Bara Magna and searched for what had become of him - that way, we would have been discovering this new world and society at the same pace as these familiar faces, and so letting us get invested in it more easily because of its direct impact on characters who we know. The culture-clash between the MU inhabitants and the Bara Magnans could have been interesting to see, too.

I find it notable, after all, that every other time that Bionicle had switched protagonists - 2004 and 2006 - the switch was still to characters who we knew from the theme's early days, so we weren't being asked to accept someone completely new taking over. As good a move as this was, I suspect that it made it all the more jarring to be thrown into 2009 where we knew literally no-one; even the 'familiar' character of Mata Nui had only been a name before that point, not someone we'd met, so it felt like we were being asked to just start over from scratch. I feel like discovering Bara Magna first through the eyes of a very small group of known characters, even if nothing else changed beyond that, could also have been a better way to ease into the new world ^^

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11 hours ago, That Matoran with a Vahi said:

even the 'familiar' character of Mata Nui had only been a name before that point, not someone we'd met, so it felt like we were being asked to just start over from scratch. 

Especially since the Mata Nui we got didn't even really fit with everything we'd seen and heard about him prior to that point in the story. Even before he actually got put to sleep, Mata Nui always came across as a distant, uncaring god, and the 2009/10 story never really spent enough time reconciling his new personality with past depictions. 

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On 7/6/2022 at 5:16 PM, Nato G said:

Especially since the Mata Nui we got didn't even really fit with everything we'd seen and heard about him prior to that point in the story. Even before he actually got put to sleep, Mata Nui always came across as a distant, uncaring god, and the 2009/10 story never really spent enough time reconciling his new personality with past depictions. 

Yeah, Mata Nui was kinda weird. I don't remember exactly how they handled it, but he adapted awfully quickly to seeing other beings that weren't microscopic compared to him. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/24/2022 at 5:51 PM, Zidonaro said:

Moltoran versions of Kongu, Tamaru, Onepu and Taipu honestly.

Make a big set including all 4 and call it "Kolhii Match" or something.

Fun fact, for anyone who doesn't know: The 2003 Matoran design was actually developed before the 2001 McToran one - but it was too complex for a McDonald's toy so they had to simplify it.  

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On 7/27/2022 at 3:29 PM, Lorentz said:

Fun fact, for anyone who doesn't know: The 2003 Matoran design was actually developed before the 2001 McToran one - but it was too complex for a McDonald's toy so they had to simplify it.  

Do you have a source for that? Sounds really interesting.

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On 7/8/2021 at 1:36 PM, Xboxtravis said:
  • No pop-alternative music and rapping in the 2006 advertising. Sure it impressed the edgy pre-teen I was at the time, but in hindsight its pretty bad (dare I say, "Its cringe"?).

 

You take that back right now. 06 wouldn't be the same without move along. And if it is gone, then we probably wouldn't have got cryoshell for 07-09.

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I'd put less emphasis on the novels as the 'primary' source of canon. Mainly because for colourful, robotic toys, I think a visual medium is necessary for kids to tell who's who. The movies are probably too short to convey the necessary details, but web games or a TV show would be ideal.

I'd also switch the Toa Norik and Toa Iruni sets back into Toa Dume and Toa Nidhiki, as they were initially designed to be. They're so obviously depicting Nidhiki and Dume that it's kind of weird they aren't. 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/5/2022 at 8:37 AM, Mukaukau Nuva said:

as they were initially designed to be.

This is a myth. The set designers don't have characters in mind when making new figures unless they were specifically told by the story team to do so in advance, like with the Toa Mata Nui figures in 2009, and Toa Lhikan in 2004. When the story team saw the sets for the first time, someone suggested they could be Dume and Nidhiki, but the idea was quickly shot down because the Story Head had plans to use those characters later. That whole conversation lasted about 15 seconds before they figured they could work as Norik and Iruini instead. 

If the set designers actually did have certain characters in mind when designing sets, they'd be stepping out line to a certain degree because it'd be limiting the Story Team's creative freedom. The only way they could have been, or should have been, designed with a character in mind, is if the Story Team told them to do it, and if that had happened, it wouldn't have been a suggestion brought up and then shot down at a later meeting.

The Set Designers knew at that point that Turaga and Toa have different shaped masks, so it'd be pretty weird for them to give Toa Dume the same mold as his Noble masks. As for Iruini/Nidhiki.... Yeah, there's a lot more coincidences there, but for all we know, the Set Designers didn't even know Nidhiki had ever been a Toa. Probably just liked the aesthetic of the Vahki head in general and decided to adapt it into a mask. 

Edited by Lorentz

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1 hour ago, Lorentz said:

This is a myth.

The creative team can deny it all they like, but that's clearly who they're meant to be (if not Dume and Nidhiki specifically, then they're supposed to represent the same characters that the Dume and Nidhiki sets ended up representing). Greg may have said otherwise, but honestly, his word means nothing to me (Greg's role in the Bionicle project is vastly overblown, in my opinion), so I don't really pay him any heed, and there's too many coincidences that suggest otherwise:

The Norik set is red, has the same mask, and uses the 04 Matoran chest armor (like the Dume set). The Iruni set is green, has a Vahki-like mask, uses the same chest armor as the Nidhiki set, has gold armor like Lhikan, and the spearhead piece they've chosen is even similar to Nidhiki's pincers (like the Nidhiki set). To me, that's too coincidental to buy that they were designed to be something totally unrelated. Most of the time, that's definitely true, but I don't think it was the case this time.

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There's a Greg quote linked on BS01 that confirms those sets were originally planned to be Nidhiki and Dume. Apparently the statement was initially made in an old topic here on BZP, but it looks like that original topic has been lost. 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Nato G said:

There's a Greg quote linked on BS01 that confirms those sets were originally planned to be Nidhiki and Dume. Apparently the statement was initially made in an old topic here on BZP, but it looks like that original topic has been lost. 

That quote doesn't tell the full story. It's incomplete information that was never updated. Look here:
https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page193#post7709-line4,17
https://greg.thegreatarchives.com/2003-2008/page133#post5289-line4

"Actually, the sets were never "originally" anything, really, because the set designers don't think in terms of characters when they design. When they were shown to the story team, someone suggested that was who they could be. The head of the story team at that time, Bob Thompson, said no, because he might want to tell a Toa Nidhiki or Toa Dume story down the road and so he didn't want sets out for them now. The whole conversation took about three seconds at which point the idea was scrapped."

Edited by Lorentz

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23 hours ago, Mukaukau Nuva said:

Greg may have said otherwise, but honestly, his word means nothing to me (Greg's role in the Bionicle project is vastly overblown, in my opinion)

Why would he lie about this so many times?

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/11/2021 at 12:39 AM, JMSOG said:

Let's see what I can come up with off the top of my head.

  • Malum was banished for nearly killing Strakk, and then Strakk was banished for nearly killing Ackar. Nothing interesting was done with Strakk in that moment, and it feels like a missed opportunity.

Malum was known for anger issues so his banishment was obvious. Strakk was a greedy mercenary for hire outside the arena for doing anything instead of being a fair protector like  https://biosector01.com/wiki/Strakk
So he had his fate coming for fighting dirty and sneaking up on Ackar. So he was exiled like biosector01 wiki shows https://biosector01.com/wiki/BIONICLE:_The_Legend_Reborn

Edited by (-Kopaka Toa of Ice-)
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/17/2022 at 2:16 PM, velika lives said:

if I could only change one thing it would be 1-4 movies for ignition. I feel like they only made movies for the worst parts of the story.

2004 is one of Bionicle's best years story-wise.

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You can just edit your posts instead of posting again, you know.

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I don't think I mentioned this one yet, but I would have loved to have seen all the Matoran masks have minor power levels. I get there was a desire to make the Great and Noble Masks more heroic, but it would have been neat to give the regular masks some small buffs. Especially since the ability of say an Onu-Matoran being able to use a Kaukau as a brief breathing device in a flooded mine, or a Le-Matoran using a Ruru in the dark underbrush, etc. would have been great story possibilities. Even if they were "nerfed" compared to the Toa/Turaga masks, it would have been a fun possibility to have seen explored in the series. 

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On 10/6/2022 at 9:34 AM, (-Kopaka Toa of Ice-) said:

Malum was known for anger issues so his banishment was obvious. Strakk was a greedy mercenary for hire outside the arena for doing anything instead of being a fair protector like  https://biosector01.com/wiki/Strakk
So he had his fate coming for fighting dirty and sneaking up on Ackar. So he was exiled like biosector01 wiki shows https://biosector01.com/wiki/BIONICLE:_The_Legend_Reborn

The weird thing is that... TLR Strakk is just nothing like Strakk otherwise. Strakk is, if anything, too coldly detached from fighting (like only helping for money). Him attacking Ackar is stupid. What did he think would happen?

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On 10/29/2022 at 1:22 PM, Xboxtravis said:

I don't think I mentioned this one yet, but I would have loved to have seen all the Matoran masks have minor power levels. 

I'm a bit leery about this simply because of how much it would've potentially unbalanced things. The whole point of Matoran is that they're the weak, small, normal people who need Toa to protect them (which makes the instances of them defending themselves more impressive). If they had access to mask powers it would make them more powerful raise the question of why they even needed protectors (especially in some of the settings where Matoran already had access to powerful weapons). 

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On 10/30/2022 at 7:51 PM, Nato G said:

I'm a bit leery about this simply because of how much it would've potentially unbalanced things. The whole point of Matoran is that they're the weak, small, normal people who need Toa to protect them (which makes the instances of them defending themselves more impressive). If they had access to mask powers it would make them more powerful raise the question of why they even needed protectors (especially in some of the settings where Matoran already had access to powerful weapons). 

That is true from a power balance perspective, but the Matoran were already capable of forming Matoran-Nui in the story which had strength comparable to a Toa as is... and that is a feature we only saw happen once and they kind of glossed over and ignored it for the rest of the franchise. In that sense I think mask powers would actually prove to be more useful from a narrative perspective, and also easy to nerf by removing the mask... and if its clear the mask powers are much much weaker than the Toa or even Turaga mask levels it could not shake up the story that much.

Like say on a Matoran a mask of x-ray vision doesn't fully make them see through walls, but say gives them better vision, or a mask of water breathing allows them to hold their breath longer but not full on water-breath like the Noble and Great masks could. It would still be weaker, but their masks would have more use beyond just decorative functions. 

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On 11/1/2022 at 10:45 AM, Xboxtravis said:

Like say on a Matoran a mask of x-ray vision doesn't fully make them see through walls, but say gives them better vision, or a mask of water breathing allows them to hold their breath longer but not full on water-breath like the Noble and Great masks could. It would still be weaker, but their masks would have more use beyond just decorative functions. 

In my headcanon, Matoran are able to access latent, passive versions of their Mask Powers, similar how they're able to access latent, passive versions of their elemental powers. Basically exactly like you described. 

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On 11/4/2022 at 8:16 AM, confused piraka said:

Matoran are just mask holders

What?

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1 hour ago, confused piraka said:

sure there cool/cute and all but they never do much of any thing important, so like I said mask holders.

The masks they wear have no power I'm pretty sure.

Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

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