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Canonization Contests in 2022


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Hi, guys. As you guys know, we have canonization contests happening since 2020. In 2020, we got Helryx and then Artakha. In 2021, we have the other four Toa Hagah. We still have contests for Zaria, Chiara, Orde, Toa Nidhiki, Tuyet, Lariska, the Golden-Skinned Being, and Marendar. In this month, it seems that we will start with either Tuyet or Zaria, Chiara, and Orde because Greg Farshtey said in TTV Messageboards that Tuyet has the Barded Broadsword and the Gelu’s Toa partners have certain weapons. Zaria has a staff, Chiara has a spear, and Orde has a mace. We know that Chiara has a Mask of Stealth, but we don’t know the other two Toa’s masks. 
 

Now, I am concerned about the contests because of how often they happen. 2021 was slower than 2020. Better speed things up. Besides, I got these extra things people should also try: 


Oh, and is using that computer program called Stud.io, where you can make 3D graphic Bionicle MOCs, allows for the contests? My friends asked me.

Edited by Lenny7092
Forgot the last part with the computer program.

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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I seriously hope that all of the upcoming contests get cancelled, at least from a canon perspective. None of these things need to be canonized, and these contests keep proving again and again that they are nothing but trouble.

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16 hours ago, Heyzorks said:

I enjoy these contests. And who doesn't want New bionicle models?

MOCs do not count as "new bionicle models" even if they're canonized. Also, and this is very important: Greg was never a set designer and has no eye for visual design, so I don't even know why he's an authority figure for these things.

Edited by Lorentz
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12 hours ago, Lorentz said:

I seriously hope that all of the upcoming contests get cancelled, at least from a canon perspective. None of these things need to be canonized, and these contests keep proving again and again that they are nothing but trouble.

I agree. Plus bionicle G1 has been over for a LOOOOOOOONNNNG time. And i don't know about all of you, but I've had my own MOCS of most of these characters for years. Personally, i like my own model of artahkha and am really proud of it. I feel like it's a slap in the face to MOCists everywhere to suddenly say that their work is less canon than anyone elses MOC for no arbitrary reason than a vote. If they had done the canonization contests before it ended, sure, but after all this time, just let us enjoy our own creations.

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I think I'm with the majority here. Who really cares what these characters look like? I truly don't understand this obsession some people have with forcing "official" canon appearances for everything. The joy of Bionicle has always been the freedom for people to come up with their own creations. 

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And I know I'm repeating myself here, but Greg has NEVER been an influencer on the physical designs of characters. He always said that he thought in words, not pictures. He is NOT in a position to approve new designs for official canon. If anything we should have the lead set designer, who I unfortunately don't know the name of. Greg is just a story guy. He has no authority over character appearances.

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People like seeing Bionicle's TONS of unknown characters get the respect they deserve, even if you can just "LEGO them". It was kinda weird going from the Mask of Creation having an image of BS01 when we didn't know G2 was a reboot to then having that stripped away. And IDK if we could get a specific set designer (if one in particular was the most important over others, throughout Bionicle's run) to still converse with fans like Greg; who were identified as being the most significant again? We already luckily have Greg as someone with canonisation authority for years, who may've also written canon for past contest models(?), then we'd have to bring in another person or two as well on top of it with LEGO's approval, it's logistics...

17 hours ago, Lorentz said:

MOCs do not count as "new bionicle models" even if they're canonized. Also, and this is very important: Greg was never a set designer and has no eye for visual design, so I don't even know why he's an authority figure for these things.

They're canon aren't they? With LEGO's approval right? So they're at least as "Bionicle model" as these:

Dark_Hunter_Ravager.pngTahtorak.png

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Pre-forums purge sig kept for historical purposes:

Some cool Bionicles are the combiners. Example: Toa Jovan

I've built a Krahka with 5 Toa Metru & Toa Norik, adding parts I needed to Norik. It needs 11 blue pieces (the ones that have +&O ends) but there's only 10 in all the Toa Metru sets. Do I have to attach her launcher to her arm? Please PM me if you can help me.

http://www.bzpower.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=309724

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2 hours ago, TommyG said:

People like seeing Bionicle's TONS of unknown characters get the respect they deserve, even if you can just "LEGO them". It was kinda weird going from the Mask of Creation having an image of BS01 when we didn't know G2 was a reboot to then having that stripped away. And IDK if we could get a specific set designer (if one in particular was the most important over others, throughout Bionicle's run) to still converse with fans like Greg; who were identified as being the most significant again? We already luckily have Greg as someone with canonisation authority for years, who may've also written canon for past contest models(?), then we'd have to bring in another person or two as well on top of it with LEGO's approval, it's logistics...

They're canon aren't they? With LEGO's approval right? So they're at least as "Bionicle model" as these:

 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t those contests canonizing characters that DIDN’T already exist? So a brand new character with a brand new model from the contest was added to the story. I don’t have a problem with that. The biggest reason that I hate the current canonization contests, is that these current contests aren't for new characters, they’re for characters over a decade old. Many of us (myself included) have already made our own versions of these characters in the over 10 years some of them have been out. This was interesting, because without an actual model, it inspired creativity, and gave each of us freedom to view the character in our own unique way. Even better, without a model, ALL OF OUR MOCs were legitimate, in the sense that each was just as valid as anyone else’s. But now, years after many of us already have our own models, the contests undo that spirit of creativity. It chooses an arbitrary model and says “this one specific mic made by some random person is better than all of yours, all of yours are now wrong, but this is the one true (insert character here)”. That feels wrong to me, and as I mentioned above, (in my opinion) spits on any MOC we’ve made of these characters, it disrespects our creativity, and it almost discourages making new MOCs old characters in favor of just seeing what other people come up with. Personally, I don’t think Greg (or anyone else for that matter) as the authority to declare a random MOC as legitimately canon over 10 years after the story ends. If they wanted to hold contests for new characters, awesome I can get behind that. Or hold contests designing sets for characters barely introduced in the storyline, interesting. But to hold a contest like this so long after Bionicle ending, where we’ve had so much time to make our models, seems really disrespectful to me. I don’t know about you, but I have my own MOCs for every set in canon contest lineup, and I am not looking forward to seeing every one of my MOCs become un-canonized.

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IDK, maybe saying that the character was never meant to be officially depicted is just a little bit much of extracted meaning for them just never giving certain characters a face? Like saying every fan interpretation was equally valid is like saying my hypothetical interpretation of a Artahka that looked like a Mahi goat was as valid.

Pre-forums purge sig kept for historical purposes:

Some cool Bionicles are the combiners. Example: Toa Jovan

I've built a Krahka with 5 Toa Metru & Toa Norik, adding parts I needed to Norik. It needs 11 blue pieces (the ones that have +&O ends) but there's only 10 in all the Toa Metru sets. Do I have to attach her launcher to her arm? Please PM me if you can help me.

http://www.bzpower.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=309724

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45 minutes ago, TommyG said:

IDK, maybe saying that the character was never meant to be officially depicted is just a little bit much of extracted meaning for them just never giving certain characters a face? Like saying every fan interpretation was equally valid is like saying my hypothetical interpretation of a Artahka that looked like a Mahi goat was as valid.

Your mahi goat interpretation of artahka can't be any worse than the "Hoseryx" interpretation that almost represented Helryx.  Furthermore, i would say that any interpretation of a character should at least somewhat follow descriptions of the character. So if you mahi goat is the right colors, has an ornate mask, and carries a hammer, I'd say sure, nice Artahka MOC. Plus i wouldn't have a problem if the contest to see what artakha looked like happened BEFORE bionicle ended. Either right before or right after artahka appeared in story. My issue with the contests is how long it's been since the story ended. Bionicle G1 (where all these characters are from) loosely went from 2000-2010. It's currently 2022. Bionicle G1 has officially been over longer than it ever ran. At this point, either make a G3 with new characters, or just leave fans in piece and let us enjoy our own creativity. 

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On 1/28/2022 at 3:59 PM, jchavoya said:

I agree. Plus bionicle G1 has been over for a LOOOOOOOONNNNG time. And i don't know about all of you, but I've had my own MOCS of most of these characters for years. Personally, i like my own model of artahkha and am really proud of it. I feel like it's a slap in the face to MOCists everywhere to suddenly say that their work is less canon than anyone elses MOC for no arbitrary reason than a vote. If they had done the canonization contests before it ended, sure, but after all this time, just let us enjoy our own creations.

This. 

I read this, and my opinion on the cannon contest went from "Meh, whatever" to "I agree with this statement fully" The highlighted line sums it up PERFECTLY why these contests shouldn't exist. I used to kinda always want to build my own Toa Hagah, and now that these "official" ones are there, I have no desire to build my own. Plus, you can't even build the ones int he artwork cause they changed the colours. The masks I'm willing to let slide.

EKnight

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27 minutes ago, Elephant Knight said:

This. 

I read this, and my opinion on the cannon contest went from "Meh, whatever" to "I agree with this statement fully" The highlighted line sums it up PERFECTLY why these contests shouldn't exist. I used to kinda always want to build my own Toa Hagah, and now that these "official" ones are there, I have no desire to build my own. Plus, you can't even build the ones int he artwork cause they changed the colours. The masks I'm willing to let slide.

EKnight

Yeah that's weird how they made it vary between the in-universe and model appearance like that for whatever reason was given or not. Plus it seems Bomonga's built without using the Rhotuka function properly? And then there's pieces being used from beyond the 2005 year the sets are supposed to fit into! It's a bit weird even ignoring the sorta-necessary unique Kanohi that of course don't have official LEGO pieces made, but maybe the latter's a mindset of if they were to have hypothetically approached other Toa Hagah sets with further newly-designed parts to differentiate them more than just reusing existing 2005 parts back then.

It's also pretty funny to think that The Yesterday Quest would get dedicated canonisation contests for its exclusive characters before it was even finished...

Edited by TommyG

Pre-forums purge sig kept for historical purposes:

Some cool Bionicles are the combiners. Example: Toa Jovan

I've built a Krahka with 5 Toa Metru & Toa Norik, adding parts I needed to Norik. It needs 11 blue pieces (the ones that have +&O ends) but there's only 10 in all the Toa Metru sets. Do I have to attach her launcher to her arm? Please PM me if you can help me.

http://www.bzpower.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=309724

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4 hours ago, jchavoya said:

My issue with the contests is how long it's been since the story ended. Bionicle G1 (where all these characters are from) loosely went from 2000-2010. It's currently 2022. Bionicle G1 has officially been over longer than it ever ran.

Agreed. I've always thought that the current canon contests were happening way too long after G1 ended.

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  • 2 weeks later...

all of the problems i have with the contests can be traced back to the people at the TTV running them.  between their almost total lack of transparency, their introduction of arbitrary new rules in the middle of the contests being run, and their inability to take genuine criticism or playful ribbing, they've made the whole thing a disaster for everyone involved.  but their biggest offense, in my opinion, has got to be the culture they've cultivated surrounding bionicle lore and canon, which can be summed up as "greg's word is law, we must only operate off of greg's word, therefore we must harass him at every turn for his insights on (insert inane thing here)."  why does it matter what the yesterday quest gang's weapons are, which direction the barbs on tuyet's broadsword face, what lariska's cup size is, or whatever other obscure and pointless piece of trivia they're obsessed with now?  are these questions really so monumentally important that they have to force greg to take time away from his real life to answer the questions of a handful of frothing neckbeards about a children's toyline twelve years dead?

i've said it before and i'll say it again- "don't mess with us bionicle fans, we're devoted to making sure absolutely no intrigue, mystery, or room for creative interpretation exists in our hobby."  screw the TTV, screw the canon contests, and screw bionicle canon.  just make your own stuff if you're so interested in it, and don't let daddy greg saying it is or isn't allowed stop you.

On 1/27/2022 at 6:04 PM, Lenny7092 said:

Now, I am concerned about the contests because of how often they happen. 2021 was slower than 2020. Better speed things up.

okay, this made me seethe.

do you have any earthly idea how entitled and selfish you sound here?  there's this thing called "real life" that everyone has- even your precious greg- which is currently being affected by a thing called "a global pandemic."  those two things deserve much higher priority and much more devoted time than a toy photography contest where the only prizes are bragging rights and your jpeg on a website.  not everyone wants to be, or can afford to be, as single-mindedly devoted to bionicle as you.

you make it out as if you are owed more of these trainwrecks.  you are not.  you are owed nothing.

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I really don't care what anyone else decides, to me, Lariska looks like the terrible MOC I made of her in 2009:lariska.jpg

 

And I've got to agree with Cap Marvelous, even if these contests weren't a cancer on the fandom, we're not entitled to them.

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41 minutes ago, Master Inika said:

I really don't care what anyone else decides, to me, Lariska looks like the terrible MOC I made of her in 2009.

You forgot to attach image of terrible MOC. All I see is a pretty good MOC of Lariska. 

 

On another note, as I said before, I feel the point of a lot of Lego is to inspire creativity.  And not giving us certain sets allowed us the opportunity to create our own equally correct, equally canon, and equally beautiful interpretations of these characters. The contests just disrespects everyone's work, discourages creativity of coming up with our own work, and (i might be in the minority here on this last thought) favors packing in as many pieces as we can (so unfortunately discourages simple MOCs). Personally, i think any MOC is great if it at least somewhat looks recognizable. Does it have to look obvious at first glance, no, but if you tell us what it is and we're like "okay, yeah, i can see that". I think it's amazing. So great work on your CANON Lariska.

Edited by jchavoya
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20 hours ago, capMARVELOUS said:

are these questions really so monumentally important that they have to force greg to take time away from his real life to answer the questions of a handful of frothing neckbeards about a children's toyline twelve years dead?

"Don't mess with us bionicle fans, we're devoted to making sure absolutely no intrigue, mystery, or room for creative interpretation exists in our hobby."

Dangerously based and well-said. 

Edited by Lorentz
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Obviously unpopular opinion here, but I believe contests can be a "springboard" for inspiration. How many times have we seen people revamp or build their vastly different takes on Tahu or any other existing character? If a character is canonised, you can just ignore it or simply label yours as one from another timeline or universe. The multiverse is canon in Bionicle, therefore everyone's Moc's are canon, isn't that quite something?

So in essence, the contests are only deciding the appearance of the Prime Universe characters :P

And if you happen to like the winners model, then it can be inspiration for a MOV.

That's how I think of it. Saying the contests make your Mocs less valid is only true if you let it be. I think there's a lot of inspirational stuff out of it. Future contests will be better, the Hagah was always going to be the worst due to the insane amount of specifics.

Edited by Axelford
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On 2/10/2022 at 3:27 PM, Axelford said:

Obviously unpopular opinion here, but I believe contests can be a "springboard" for inspiration. How many times have we seen people revamp or build their vastly different takes on Tahu or any other existing character? If a character is canonised, you can just ignore it or simply label yours as one from another timeline or universe. The multiverse is canon in Bionicle, therefore everyone's Moc's are canon, isn't that quite something?

So in essence, the contests are only deciding the appearance of the Prime Universe characters :P

And if you happen to like the winners model, then it can be inspiration for a MOV.

That's how I think of it. Saying the contests make your Mocs less valid is only true if you let it be. I think there's a lot of inspirational stuff out of it. Future contests will be better, the Hagah was always going to be the worst due to the insane amount of specifics.

Not a bad thought, that definitely can happen, but I would dispute that it necessarily does, especially with how they are being handled now. Admittedly, I never really thought about it until your post made me, so this is just me rambling off the top of my head:

Contests inspire creativity when they strike while the protosteel is hot, so to speak. The Certavus contest was a perfect one, IMO, because Certacus was a new character. It didn't feel so much like we were even competing as it was that we were collectively deciding how we imagined him. The Surel and Iron Wolf art contests fit this, too. Contests for new characters or characters with active storylines are better, because they encourage engagement with the story in a mutually positive way.

To a lesser degree, you could argue the same principle applies to fanfiction contests: the Toa Varian contest intrigued me because it was right as the Matoran Universe exodus was taking place, and I know I and a lot of other longtime fans wondered what would happen to the obscure characters like TSO's Toa in stasis, so having a chance to imagine what her life was like was a nice way to stimulate the fandom. Even if I didn't win or enter all these contests, having the chance to made them feel real and organic, and even for the ones that happened before I was part of the community (like the original Thousand Years Untold contest), I could still recognize and appreciate how well-integrated into the existing lore they were.

These contests are taking place years after these characters' storylines are relevant. I've had personal impressions in my head of what some of these characters would look like for over a decade. Frankly, even if I tried to respect the legitimacy of these contests, they're not going to change what I imagine when I imagine Toa Kualus. The contests aren't expanding the universe anymore, they're limiting it. The early contests were good because no one had any time for their personal impressions to harden in their minds before the contest was over, so there was a fun malleability to it all. Now, it's just like going back and rewriting characters who really felt like not having official depictions was sort of part of who they were now.

I'll use Toa Nidhiki for my example: not knowing what he looked like is part of his charm. He's green and Lhikan-sized, that's all we really need to know. If they do a Toa Nidhiki contest, that might just kill my enthusiasm for official contests entirely.

[As a side-note, I am aware Toa Iruini was originally supposed to be Toa Nidhiki. That would have been awesome, because it was the same year we learned Nidhiki was a Toa, so it would have felt like part of that revelation instead of an addition onto it.]

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I'm also not really into the canonisation contests. I've tried to keep an open mind about not judging other people's fun, but I just can't get into it. @Master Inikais right that the time since Gen1 ended matters, and I would add that it's not just that mental pictures have ossified, but it's also that the contest isn't a PART of Gen1, but something being tacked on by a subset of fans with the authorisation of one of the creators years later. 

And "ossified" is the word I think is most important. As long as Gen1 was running, things could still be added in or new vistas opened up, and even things that had already occurred could be retconned away. Now there's no real chance of either new vistas or retconning: it's just trying to paint in more and more detail into the crevices. At the risk of bringing up a fandom that is not exactly everyone's favourite, it's trying to "Pottermore" Bionicle. 

I say this too, as someone ever-ready to dig up more wastepaper basket notes on Middle-earth, so it's not that I don't like new content. But there's a difference between new content by the creator(s) and canonised fan-art. At my gut, Bionicle is LEGO to me: a physical toy. The only real way to expand the canon in my mind is for LEGO to develop more sets. Everything else is alt-canon, fanon. 

Not that fan-canon is bad! But I'd like the contests a whole lot more if it were "here's a character LEGO never made: go nuts and show us your version!" than "here's a character LEGO never made--make your own and we'll find one to arbitrarily elevate as Real." Which is less fun, at least for me, sounds potentially divisive, since it's easy to have two awesome builds with differing takes, and still isn't "a new set from LEGO."

 

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Thanks, @Hau1. Pottermore is exactly what's happening here, and it's not good. Seriously, it's like the Bionicle fandom has never heard the phrase death of the author* and it shows. The most fun Bionicle contests were the Rahi and Dark Hunter contests, and I'm sure most everyone will agree. What made them so great was how non-comprehensive they were--I loved the idea as a kid that Rahi Beasts was sort of an introductory work, and somewhere in the Archives or Order of Mata Nui library was a "full" version with thousands of entries. Even when they couldn't squeeze in multiple winners--like the Krakua contest--is was still so cool seeing what a Toa was like somewhere else in time, what was the same and what was different.

I don't want to rain on anyone's fun, either. If you enjoy these contests, enjoy them. But for me, contests as a part of official Bionicle require an active Bionicle to be effective.

*referencing the idea that the only integral part of a work of art is what is contained directly in the art itself and not necessarily including any external interpretation, not even that of its creator.

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Can we maybe all agree that all of the post-2011 canonizations are part of a Silver Timeline of sorts? As in, they're technically canon in their own way, but in a separate realm to the true canon of the officially published material. This would include some of the later serials and all of the recent contests. 

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Haven't there already been too many already, The main story became a mess with unfinished serials and now representations of characters are being added that aren't advertised by Lego themselves beside the web.

I think it's just as bad as G2 Makuta who never had a official Mask Builder body set released and the second was a messy combiner that required a lot of sets and a online guide to build it and a unreleased mask of ultimate power released. His Mask of Control was only included with Umarak a Henchman working for him in season 2.

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  • 3 weeks later...

We won. 

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5 hours ago, Heyzorks said:

 

But at what cost..?

The cost? Greg finally getting a break from the incessant nagging of a bunch of 20-something to 30-something year olds to make every little fanon detail of a long dead franchise canon.

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11 hours ago, Heyzorks said:

But at what cost..?

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  • 7 months later...

This aged like milk:

On 2/11/2022 at 9:27 AM, Axelford said:

Future contests will be better, the Hagah was always going to be the worst due to the insane amount of specifics.

Postmortem: After signing up as an Auditor to do damage control during the Hagah, when the contests ended prematurely my first thought was something like: "The mission, the nightmares, they're finally over." It was stressful, thankless work and I know the TTV Cast felt the same. There was a feeling of "we're doing this for you" but when watching and hearing the broad community, little feeling anyone really did want it. There was going to be a revote on whether they should continue, (I think people forgot that after the news about Greggory) so at least the community was being heard and the contests likely would have wrapped up anyway after Tuyet I believe.

I think it didn't have to end this way; I would have liked to have seen how the next contest would have gone, with our better review system. (The Auditor Team were people who actually weren't absent for months at a time and could take criticism on board, so I believe we may have had chance to improve things but who knows.) But that is the way the cookie crumbles.

 

On 2/13/2022 at 12:25 PM, Master Inika said:

Contests for new characters or characters with active storylines are better, because they encourage engagement with the story in a mutually positive way.

While I still disagree on some points, overall, I think my feelings have mellowed and I would say yes, the contests should have never happened, not like how they did anyway. I've been getting back in touch with my "Lego System" roots and more into Moc making again, because creating makes me happy. I think fun is important and I didn't see that during the contests. Lego and Bionicle is a Hobby, hobbies are escapism and relaxation from life's matters, so why make the hobby full of arguing, gatekeeping or winners and losers, that isn't a break, that's an extra burden! So, I see that clearly now and I do what makes me happy, building, not really thinking about canon in any way, just whatever ideas I like, with no fear of stepping on another's head-canon. 

(In response to my quote of you, Inika) I can strongly agree with that (The quoted statement) now and any contest would ideally be such, revisiting old characters never was ideal. That's why I'm happy the Fanon Contests are mixing in some stuff like the Bota Magna Dinos or this coming Red-Star one, it's essentially new territory for the story and people less likely have strong feelings about those background things. The Fanon Contests are certainly more fun, and I look forward to them continuing, the prizes are way better than a jpeg on BS01 and the broad range of characters and even Rahi makes it much more approachable, the "low-stakes" makes the environment more friendly and overall fosters a better fandom. There is a lot of cool stuff, fan projects etc. out there, with no "canon" on the line and that is great. Here is to the future. :biorules:

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