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Can a Glatorian beat a Toa?


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Hello! I've always wondered how strong a Glatorian is, and if it's possible for a Glatorian to kill or incapacitate a Toa. Since it is described in a book that a team of toa was captured by some vorox, the vorox took away their elemental powers, ¿But aren't the toa supposed to be able to hold their own? They also had the oldest toa of all

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Glatorian and Toa are roughly equal. Toa probably have better endurance and are way harder to injur, while Glatorian might be physically stronger or faster. Either way it all balances out so that they're largely interchangeable for the purposes of the story. People asked Greg this question a lot, and his answers were vague. He said that there was no reason to directly compare them like that until the story specifically called for it, and that was unlikely. Overall, he made it clear that they were about the same when you evened out their strengths and weaknesses. 

Also, the Toa were probably so shocked and confused that their powers were gone that they weren't able to put up much of a fight. Adding to that, Glatorian are much better melee fighters since Toa just rely on their powers 90% of the time. 

Edited by Lorentz
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On paper, looking at their Mask and elemental powers, and all of the other weird details that have been canonised about Toa over the years (that even without a Mask Of Strength, an average Toa can comfortably lift up to one tonne in weight, that their armour is bulletproof, etc) the answer should be no. 

In practice, however, questions like this will always come down to whatever the writer wants, that best services the story they're writing. 

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As everyone has mentioned, toa have masks and elemental powers, but I think one factor people have mentioned is that a lot of glatorian have elemental powers too now thanks to mata nui. In addition, toa have such a strict sense of morality, where glatorian have had to do whatever it takes to survive. I think a toa would have a moral crisis beating a glatorian down or using masks powers against someone who can’t fight back. A glatorian on the other hand might not have any issues turning a toa to scrap metal. Strakk for instance I think would pull a dirty trick and pretend to be dead, only to attack the toa as soon it’s back is turned.

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1 hour ago, Nato The Whisperer said:

He only gave powers to five of them. 

Didn't he actually give powers to their weapons? Changed it so that the wielder can tap into their inner potential? So from that couldn't technically any glatorian have powers if they are just loaned the weapon?

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Physically, Toa would be stronger, i think, because Glatorians are organic, and Toa are half organic half protodermis. And even thier organic tissues made from protodermis, just another form of it. But if you count fight abilities and technique, Glatorians would be better, because as was mentionet above by Lorentz, they had more experience in fighting, and didn't have elemental powers before, until Mata Nui gave it to them. Also about the fact of taking toa powers, Vorox were able to block them with the help of devise, given to them by Velika. If i recall stryline correctly.

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On 1/29/2022 at 3:22 PM, jchavoya said:

Didn't he actually give powers to their weapons? Changed it so that the wielder can tap into their inner potential? So from that couldn't technically any glatorian have powers if they are just loaned the weapon?

I think he modified the weapons so that they could better channel the power, but still gave the power to just those five Glatorian. 

In my headcanon, worthy Glatorians touch the dormant Mask of Life to gain elemental powers and become new "Toa"

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19 hours ago, Raph said:

Physically, Toa would be stronger, i think, because Glatorians are organic, and Toa are half organic half protodermis.

I think it's closer to 80% mechanical, 20% organic for Toa. But given that the "organic" parts are also technically an artificial material mimicking flesh, the line gets really blurry. I also believe it's canon that Glatorian have a metal-based skeletal structure (rather than calcium-based like humans), so that might make them more durable?

Generally I try not to think too hard about it and just headcanon that Toa and Glatorian are more or less on-par physically.

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7 hours ago, Nato G said:

I think it's closer to 80% mechanical, 20% organic for Toa. But given that the "organic" parts are also technically an artificial material mimicking flesh, the line gets really blurry. I also believe it's canon that Glatorian have a metal-based skeletal structure (rather than calcium-based like humans), so that might make them more durable?

Generally I try not to think too hard about it and just headcanon that Toa and Glatorian are more or less on-par physically.

Fair. I forgot that Glatorians had netallic bone structure. i'm realy just posting, not trying to think about it to serious. Not that it's such an important to me either.

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It might be fair to think of it this way, ordering various species from weakest to strongest:

Real human: Just as a reference point, we're really weak.

Glatorian: Humans with metallic bones and who also have the benefit of longer lifespans, allowing them to become better fighters than we ever could. Plus, they're probably as tall as Toa (seven feet) and have access to more dangerous technology. (Of course, considering humans on an individual basis vs. governments is difficult.)

MU resident: I'm going to rank Toa/Skakdi/other canister-sized guys in here. All the strengths of Glatorian, plus elemental and mask powers. Not impossible, it'd still be an engaging fight, but it's definitely skewed in the Toa's favor. Remember when Takanuva (almost) fought Gresh in the comics--should Greg really be able survive a blast of Takanuva's light? Probably not, but this is one part where the elemental powers aren't treated as real elements. Takanuva would just be firing energy at him, not literal solar rays. Even though he should be.

Makuta: Probably the most OP characters in all of Bionicle. There's a reason Greg had to blind or mutate them all to make 2008 a vaguely fair fight.

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6 hours ago, Master Inika said:

and have access to more dangerous technology.

Such as what? They don't even have guns.

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On 2/6/2022 at 12:56 AM, Lorentz said:

Such as what? They don't even have guns.

Force blasters are functionally the same thing as guns. I'm also thinking of Core War-era elementally-charged weapons.

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On 2/5/2022 at 4:30 PM, Master Inika said:

--should Greg really be able survive a blast of Takanuva's light?

Well Greg wrote the books, he wasn't supposed to be fighting in them! :P
 

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25 minutes ago, Xboxtravis said:

Well Greg wrote the books, he wasn't supposed to be fighting in them! :P
 

Good catch. Y'all know what I meant.

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19 hours ago, Master Inika said:

Force blasters are functionally the same thing as guns. I'm also thinking of Core War-era elementally-charged weapons.

Those always sounded no more powerful than Cordak blasters or half the crazy Xian weapons out there.

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On 2/10/2022 at 1:23 PM, Lorentz said:

Those always sounded no more powerful than Cordak blasters or half the crazy Xian weapons out there.

But they don't sound less powerful, either, at least not to me. Admittedly, we never actually see the Force blasters in action.

(That's one annoying thing about the Spherus Magna culture, we never really got a feel for exactly how advanced it was, so it's hard to compare them to others.)

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To make a sports analogy: "can [MEDIOCRE TEAM X] beat [SUPERSTAR TEAM Y]?"

Yes. That's why they play the game.

In other words, I dislike the video-gamifying idea that you can assign a rank/stat/power level to different characters, and a question like this verges on that: we're not talking about "could a Matoran defeat the GSR?" but about whether one warrior creature could beat a similarly-sized second warrior creature. Even if you can determine that Creature A is stronger/faster/more powerful than Creature B, that doesn't mean that Creature A would always win. If it did, there'd be no underdogs winning, no upsets.

Edited by Hau1
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/12/2022 at 5:12 PM, Hau1 said:

To make a sports analogy: "can [MEDIOCRE TEAM X] beat [SUPERSTAR TEAM Y]?"

Yes. That's why they play the game.

Your sports analogy doesn't really hold up, since the Toa and Glatorians have never fought each other in the story.

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