Nuile the Paracosmic Tulpa Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I know that "qi" is technically just correct as correct as "chi," but it just looks so incredibly awkward. Reading it makes absolutely no sense when the letter "q" does not have the "ch" sound in ordinary English words. So I'm most curious as to why you insist on using it so profusely.I still remain entirely unconvinced that Amon is Yakone. To have faked his own loss of bending (seriously... Aang would have noticed) for so many years and faking his own son's loss of bending? Tarrlok clearly does not like Amon at all, though, but seemed to have some respect for his father; he just disagreed with how he made his bid for power. It's all too improbable. His method of removing bending also looks nothing like bloodbending, and you seem to be big on how things look. Such as Mako being blood-bent in the finale trailer just because his arms are at awkward angles. He could have easily fallen into that position after having the right pressure points in his arms and legs blocked.~|ET|~I like the pinyin q pronounced ch. I learned the word as qi, and being that it is a correct form I prefer to use it that way. Personally, I think it looks good, but to each their own.And again, to each their own. But I will point out that, for one thing, I didn't say Tarrlok knew Amon's identity. At first I thought that was possible--which it still is, because Tarrlok could be merely acting--but honestly I agree with you there, that Tarrlok is just a pompous fool who played into Amon's hands unwittingly. But I don't think that proves that Amon isn't Yakone. If anything, it explains why Amon might not have taken Tarrlok's bending; because he thought he might be able to sway his son. If Tarrlok knew and was clearly opposed, Amon could easily have removed him. Besides, Tarrlok's surprise when Amon resisted bloodbending seemed genuine. As for his his technique for expelling bending looking nothing like bloodbending . . . aren't we talking about Yakone, the guy who, standing stock still, bloodbent a courtroom full of people? He can obviously bloodbend without his hands. Therefore, I should think he could "qibend" without his hands. He merely touches their heads for show. If he just pointed out shouted "bending--begone!" That would be awkward and, being so unlike Aang's technique, incredible. Besides, it's much more dramatic this way.Sincerely, Nuile: Lunatic Wordsmith Quote When I know I can't live without a pen and paper, when I know writing is as necessary to me as breathing . . . I know I am ready to start my voyage. A Musing Author . . . Want to read my books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I'm still not seeing how Amon could be Yakone. It requires so many assumptions (Yakone out-bent the Avatar [in the Avatar state, no less], Yakone is incredibly fit for his age [i think Bumi is the exception, not the rule, and Roku was the Avatar], Amon didn't actually take Amon's bending [but still pretended to], etc.) while having little actual support.I feel like my wild guess of Yakone having another, separate son who became Amon is more plausible for some of these reasons, and even then it's far out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanchir Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The assumption is that anyone in this universe who has the ability to kill or destroy, at whatever scale, would inevitably use their power for that purpose. Which, as has been shown repeatedly, is not the case. Those who end up doing so are portrayed as villains, and rightfully so. And that's when the good guys come in.Also another erroneous aspect of the flamethrower analogy is that a guy with a flamethrower can't have his fire blast cancelled out by another guy with a flamethrower, whereas a firebender can not only produce but manipulate fire. One person may be able to cause harm, but all it takes is one other person to significantly reduce or even eliminate any damage. And that's not even bringing in airbending, waterbending, or earthbending.Also, I don't know what the breakdown of bender vs. non-bender is, but I highly doubt it's so lopsided as to leave an entire group of non-benders at the mercy of one or a few bullies. There was that town in "Zuko Alone" with the thugs, but that was due to all the other Earthbenders having left to fight in the war.Regarding cybernetics, this is why it's important to watch the show. For the most part I've tried to avoid spoilers, but I can't address this without them:The Equalists have cybernetics, or at least the industrial-revolution-era equivalent of cybernetics. They have gloves and staves that are charged with electricity and can electrocute people with a touch. Granted, this would be an excellent way for non-benders to work on something like a police force, especially in the hypothetical non-bending town you mentioned, but Republic City already has the metalbending police force, who, mind you, the gloves and things are specifically designed to incapacitate. I'll also grant that the city is shown to have slums where violence is more common, but that's not because people can manipulate elements; it'll end up being a problem anywhere sooner or later. And on the occasion where it's shown, a police zeppelin arrives almost immediately. The metalbenders themselves appear to be trained to minimize such damages, using wrist cables to restrain people rather than heaving chunks of rocks around. And it seems to work reasonably well, compared to how real life works.But then the Equalists start bombing places and everything goes to heck.If instead of using their technology to forward a violent revolution they used it to help with the problem, I think that could work. Amon himself gives a big speech about how they've "evened out the playing field", and yet he still wants to strip everyone's bending. That leaves people with no natural abilities but tons of rather brutal taser-like weapons (and other stuff, watch to find out), which doesn't seem like it would help in the establishment of peace.Sorry if this seems kind of disjointed, I don't really write my arguments in a linear fashion.Something you're kind of ignoring, though, that's rarely brought up in the show is that the higher social status enjoyed by benders isn't merely a result of bender-against-non-bender crime or oppression. Benders also have access to jobs non-benders don't have, like working in the power plant the way Mako did in the third episode. So it's somewhat understandable that some radical non-benders might see the best solution for equality as eliminating bending entirely.Now, I don't sympathize with the Equalists too much. While some of them might have good intentions, waging war against their home city and imprisoning people just for being benders (or, in some cases, former benders whose power they have already stripped away) isn't what I'd consider an honorable way of achieving their goals. The cult of personality around Amon also does not seem like it would promote a healthy society once the revolution is over. Quote Latest MOC: PAIGE (Prototype Artificial Intelligence, Gynoid Expression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Also, when discussing old!Bumi's age, let's not forget jin. Go watch the very first Bumi episode if you don't remember. Bumi had extremely good jin, to the point of where he knew an eclipse was coming without any former knowledge of it. His good jin could be why he was so fit for a man of a 112. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevsky Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) However, Amon's use of only one hand is kind of a big difference. While the physical and spiritual sides of bending may not me entirely concrete, I think how the physical world affects the spiritual aspect is rather strict. Aang's last chakra got locked when he was killed by Azula, and was only unlocked when a rock hit him in the exact same spot. I wouldn't think a person's energy could be bent without touching the necessary points. Reposting image for relevance.I still think Amon may have some sort of "energy" power, but is simply using it to scramble other people's chi flow so they can't bend, similar to paralysis.I do agree with you to a certain extent. I think the martial art forms are extremely important to note, particularly when considered how much effort goes into making them authentic. However, I refuse to support such a hypothesis that the lack of the second creates a major difference because I do not see the purpose. A scrambling effect would completely dissolve the dramatic tension that the series has built up, make the sheer, palpable feeling of dread whenever Amon is in a scene with a bender meaningless, and significantly lower the stakes. Your theory is somewhat believable, but it would lead to Lin's sacrifice being meaningless (the most emotional moment of the series, thus far) and lead to a victory that is much less meaningful then if it was false, which is not something I think the writer's of this show would pull. Ah, but here's what I find truly intriguing. Look closely at Mako's scene in the finale teaser. He's not qiblocked. He's being bloodbent.Now look further at Amon when he says, "I--will-destroy you." He's not clenching a threatening fist. That's not a fist at all. He's bloodbending.What? You offered literally no basis to substantiate those claims. Without evidence, you're claim comes off as delusional, as if your desperately scrambling for a hint of evidence that could prove your theory correct even though it should have been laid to rest in episode 9. First off, nobody claimed that was a fist, so I fail to see how that proves your point. There's nothing in that hand that resembles any form of bloodbending, except for Yakone's inexplicably bulgy eye powers, but once you assume that, you could say that any character is bloodbending in any given screenshot. As for the Mako picture, again, you provided no context to make it a compelling case. Litererally the only thing that substantiates your claim is his outstretched hand. Not to mention that Mako spoke without any hint of a stutter or weakness within his voice, unlike anybody else under the influence of bloodbending. And why would Amon bloodbend him, when chi-blocking could produce the same result? Furthermore, if he was Amon, why would Tarrlock hire somebody to dress up as him and fake the loss of bending, and then have that imposter capture the avatar and risk losing her? Nobody in the show suspected he was Amon, so he could have handled the situation in a much more straightforward manner. I've seen some convoluted theories in this topic, but this is pretty extreme. As for Amon, I'm in the group that he's really Bumi, Aang's non-bender son. That's pretty petty motivation for his character, but it does fit. After all, bending has been shown to be determined a lot by genetics. If Tenzin got airbending and Kya got waterbending, perhaps Bumi got the ability to energybend? That would explain why he can remove bending. Honestly though, I hope it's someone that no one expects.Amon isn't Bumi, unless Bumi happens to be a racebender or something. I'm not inclined to believe that "leaked" picture, but if it is true it'll be a major disappointment for me. I think you're referring to this picture, which was most likely faked by a troll, someone with a grand total of two brain cells, or somebody who isn't a fan of Avatar. If it's true, I'll likely end up hanging up myself, because that's how seriously I take this show. <,< Edited June 19, 2012 by Derpman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuile the Paracosmic Tulpa Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I concede that my theory is based on a few what-ifs and that there's not a lot of solid support, but there's about as much fact behind it as one can expect to obtain in a weekly television series. And there's logic behind all the what-ifs. So far all of your arguments are based no more solidly than my theory itself. That's it precisely; it's all a matter of opinion and conjecture until the finale in four long days. We're all welcome to our theories until we learn the truth, and whoever ends up correct earns laughing rights. I personally agree with the plausibility of Yakone having a second child. It's certainly feasible. I don't believe in it, myself, but it would also explain Amon's surmised ability to bloodbend.On another note, as far as we know, could Roku lightningbend? I was just thinking about how Aang, as far as we know, could not metalbend or bloodbend. It's possible, of course, that he learned this in later years, or maybe not. Clearly he did not learn bloodbending. My point is, I'm wondering if the Avatar is capable of wielding all four elements and their more exclusive capabilities.Sincerely, Nuile: Lunatic Wordsmith Quote When I know I can't live without a pen and paper, when I know writing is as necessary to me as breathing . . . I know I am ready to start my voyage. A Musing Author . . . Want to read my books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Something you're kind of ignoring, though, that's rarely brought up in the show is that the higher social status enjoyed by benders isn't merely a result of bender-against-non-bender crime or oppression. Benders also have access to jobs non-benders don't have, like working in the power plant the way Mako did in the third episode. So it's somewhat understandable that some radical non-benders might see the best solution for equality as eliminating bending entirely.Now, I don't sympathize with the Equalists too much. While some of them might have good intentions, waging war against their home city and imprisoning people just for being benders (or, in some cases, former benders whose power they have already stripped away) isn't what I'd consider an honorable way of achieving their goals. The cult of personality around Amon also does not seem like it would promote a healthy society once the revolution is over.I don't really see that as a huge deal, either. Yes lightning benders like Mako can get better jobs like generating electricity, but those jobs give pretty direct benefits to everyone. Instead of having to mine, transport, and burn something like coal, which would also pollute the air, you just have a guy shoot electricity into a machine. If people feel it's a big deal, then they should pull for non-benders to be given similar options like adding generators that work off stationary bikes or something. I imagine similar workarounds could be achieved for other "bender-specific" jobs, like using a variant of the Equalist tech for police.On another note, as far as we know, could Roku lightningbend? I was just thinking about how Aang, as far as we know, could not metalbend or bloodbend. It's possible, of course, that he learned this in later years, or maybe not. Clearly he did not learn bloodbending. My point is, I'm wondering if the Avatar is capable of wielding all four elements and their more exclusive capabilities. Sincerely, Nuile: Lunatic Wordsmith I imagine it'd be an option to learn the specialized techniques, since the Avatar is pretty much just four benders in one plus an eternity of spiritual wisdom. Whether they'd bother to learn them is probably dependent on the Avatar and the conditions they're in. Things like bloodbending, being seen as immoral and only good under a full moon (or so was thought), would probably be ignored since it has little utility. Metalbending maybe, but it probably requires strict discipline, and while that's kind of the Avatar's schtick, it might pull focus from the other elements and throw him or her off balance. Lightning would probably depend on the Avatar and how they feel about using potentially lethal force, or how calm they can keep themselves.But don't forget that Aang was able to resist Yakone's bloodbending, at least while in the Avatar state, so it's not out of the question for bloodbending to be present in the list of powers, at least in a passive way. Edited June 19, 2012 by Bfahome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) I did just now notice something from episode nine, spoilered for anyone who hasn't seen it yet (it was only two weeks ago);While I definitely don't think Amon is Yakone, I just realized after a rewatch that Amon probably was very well working with Tarrlock. First, there's Amon's suspicious finding of Tarrlock's hideout. Second, Amon says "take no chances; electrocute the box." It took me three rewatches before I noticed that. Amon never went down stairs, and he would have no way of knowing where Tarrlock was keeping Korra. From his angle, he might of caught the slightest glimpse of the metal box, but not enough to deduce intelligently that it was a metal prison. It'd look really bad for Amon if his men went down there and found a metal crate with fish or something in there.But I'm still holding to my theory that Amon is not a liar and does believe in his ideals. How do I justify this? Amon is obviously a pragmatist; it is not unlikely that he could adopt a persona outside of his masked figure that would let him go around freely in public. In this persona, he could of met Tarrlock and manipulated him, either through gently pointing the way to power or maybe offering money. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to get a power-obsessed politician such as Tarrlock to do what you want if you toss in power and money in the deal. Tarrlock would of then done the things like forcing nonbenders into a curfew and such, cementing Amon's ideals in the general public, and thus reinforcing his power base.One might say it's against Amon's ideals to abuse nonbenders, but again, Amon is obviously a pragmatist. The greater good of the many is in his plan, or what least so I believe. He'd be willing to let some peaceful protestors be imprisoned if it meant his point was made. It doesn't make him a good person, but it's not necessarily evil either. Edited June 19, 2012 by Programmer Alex Humva Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I don't see how it's so unlikely that Amon could have followed Tarrlok there, and maybe even sent a scout in while he wasn't there.But it's not like he would have had to, anyway. As Tarrlok was walking up the stairs Korra was banging on the box and yelling that he'd never get away with it. Doesn't take a genius to recognize that sound.Also, I don't think Amon manipulated Tarrlok so directly, as Tarrlok was already headed for the power grab. His plan was to rule the city where Yakone failed, which he outright stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerMiner Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 My sister thinks the "Squeaky voiced liar", may be an Equalist due to the sound of his voice in the previous episode, but I really doubt it.. I honestly can't believe Lin's bending is gone. I just don't believe it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuile the Paracosmic Tulpa Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I imagine it'd be an option to learn the specialized techniques, since the Avatar is pretty much just four benders in one plus an eternity of spiritual wisdom. Whether they'd bother to learn them is probably dependent on the Avatar and the conditions they're in. Things like bloodbending, being seen as immoral and only good under a full moon (or so was thought), would probably be ignored since it has little utility. Metalbending maybe, but it probably requires strict discipline, and while that's kind of the Avatar's schtick, it might pull focus from the other elements and throw him or her off balance. Lightning would probably depend on the Avatar and how they feel about using potentially lethal force, or how calm they can keep themselves.But don't forget that Aang was able to resist Yakone's bloodbending, at least while in the Avatar state, so it's not out of the question for bloodbending to be present in the list of powers, at least in a passive way.I agree that they're probably capable, but I doubt if many did for the very reason you mentioned: balance. An Avatar has to master all four elements, and to master all the secondary elements as well would require so much discipline and time that the Avatar would probably be too busy for their duties. Unless they ignored everything there were supposed to do (like Kuruk) and dedicated their whole life to pointlessly mastering all the elements (unlike Kuruk), I doubt if any one Avatar has or ever would master all the secondary elements. There's also the fact that metalbending and bloodbending were not discovered until Aang's time, and certainly the Avatar has existed for far longer than lightningbending has been a known element.But wait, how does that make sense, anyway? The Avatar State gives the Avatar all the power and skill of the Avatars before him--which would mean, therefore, that there's bloodbending somewhere in the lineage of Avatars. Certainly it's possible that there were bloodbenders before Hammah . . . but that strikes me as rather odd.I did just now notice something from episode nine, spoilered for anyone who hasn't seen it yet (it was only two weeks ago);While I definitely don't think Amon is Yakone, I just realized after a rewatch that Amon probably was very well working with Tarrlock. First, there's Amon's suspicious finding of Tarrlock's hideout. Second, Amon says "take no chances; electrocute the box." It took me three rewatches before I noticed that. Amon never went down stairs, and he would have no way of knowing where Tarrlock was keeping Korra. From his angle, he might of caught the slightest glimpse of the metal box, but not enough to deduce intelligently that it was a metal prison. It'd look really bad for Amon if his men went down there and found a metal crate with fish or something in there.But I'm still holding to my theory that Amon is not a liar and does believe in his ideals. How do I justify this? Amon is obviously a pragmatist; it is not unlikely that he could adopt a persona outside of his masked figure that would let him go around freely in public. In this persona, he could of met Tarrlock and manipulated him, either through gently pointing the way to power or maybe offering money. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to get a power-obsessed politician such as Tarrlock to do what you want if you toss in power and money in the deal. Tarrlock would of then done the things like forcing nonbenders into a curfew and such, cementing Amon's ideals in the general public, and thus reinforcing his power base.One might say it's against Amon's ideals to abuse nonbenders, but again, Amon is obviously a pragmatist. The greater good of the many is in his plan, or what least so I believe. He'd be willing to let some peaceful protestors be imprisoned if it meant his point was made. It doesn't make him a good person, but it's not necessarily evil either. It's an interesting point and an intriguing twist on the possibility of Tarrlok's alliance with Amon, but I'm not buying it. On top of the points Bfahome made, I'm still not at all convinced that Amon is a man of his word, and moreover I don't at all believe that Tarrlok could be bought monetarily. Now I'll admit that he might have been manipulated, and I actually believe that he was; but not knowingly, not intentionally working with Amon. If he is working with Amon, I don't think it's because he sympathized with the Equalists. I don't think he would trust Amon unless Amon's intentions are not what they seem. Even if Amon offered Tarrlok power, why would he--a bender--trust a guy trying to eliminate benders? Honestly, I don't believe Tarrlok is a genius, but you're insulting his intelligence. Moreover, his rectitude; I do think he really wants to be a hero, and even as far as his ends justify, to him, his means, I don't think he would go this far to be a hero. In my opinion, either he's a villain working with an Amon who's not the Equalist he publicly claims to be, or he's an ambitious hero working in a foolish and pompous manner against Amon; I don't think you can have it both ways.Sincerely, Nuile: Lunatic Wordsmith Quote When I know I can't live without a pen and paper, when I know writing is as necessary to me as breathing . . . I know I am ready to start my voyage. A Musing Author . . . Want to read my books? 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Alex Humva Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 While I do ceed to Bfa, as he made good points against my case, I feel I need to respond to this part; If he is working with Amon, I don't think it's because he sympathized with the Equalists. I don't think he would trust Amon unless Amon's intentions are not what they seem. Even if Amon offered Tarrlok power, why would he--a bender--trust a guy trying to eliminate benders? Honestly, I don't believe Tarrlok is a genius, but you're insulting his intelligence. Amon is obviously a pragmatist; it is not unlikely that he could adopt a persona outside of his masked figure that would let him go around freely in public. In this persona, he could of met Tarrlock and manipulated him, either through gently pointing the way to power or maybe offering money.Note that. I specifically said Amon could of adopted a persona outside of the mask, another identity. He would of worked with Tarrlock without Tarrlock knowing the truth. You did twist my words somewhat there, but methinks it was a simple miscommunication. I'm saying Amon could very well exist outside of the mask, because really, you've got to take it off sometime, that thing has to start itching after a while. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 But wait, how does that make sense, anyway? The Avatar State gives the Avatar all the power and skill of the Avatars before him--which would mean, therefore, that there's bloodbending somewhere in the lineage of Avatars. Certainly it's possible that there were bloodbenders before Hammah . . . but that strikes me as rather odd.It doesn't necessarily mean that bloodbending was used before. It just means that the Avatar state grants him enough power to do it without the moon, or to at least resist it without the moon. Aang is aware of bloodbending, so it's not a stretch to conclude that he simply applied his water bending prowess to his own blood. He knew it could be done, so he did it with the power boost he got.It's difficult to know if Hama was the first to "invent" it, since there's no indication of its use before then and the characters seemed genuinely surprised by the revelation. It seems like such a discovery would be less likely in the past, since the Fire Nation jail was specifically designed to deprive waterbenders of any water to bend, leaving blood as the only "water" around. In a less limited scenario a waterbender might not go to such lengths if an easier option is available to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Something I feel I should point out; if my theory of Amon being a true energy bender is correct, and that is how he defied Tarrlock's blood bending, then it's entirely possible the Avatar state, which is all of the knowledge and energy of the past Avatars, would allow Aang to ignore the blood bending because that much energy allows him to keep himself under his own control. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuile the Paracosmic Tulpa Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) While I do ceed to Bfa, as he made good points against my case, I feel I need to respond to this part;If he is working with Amon, I don't think it's because he sympathized with the Equalists. I don't think he would trust Amon unless Amon's intentions are not what they seem. Even if Amon offered Tarrlok power, why would he--a bender--trust a guy trying to eliminate benders? Honestly, I don't believe Tarrlok is a genius, but you're insulting his intelligence. Amon is obviously a pragmatist; it is not unlikely that he could adopt a persona outside of his masked figure that would let him go around freely in public. In this persona, he could of met Tarrlock and manipulated him, either through gently pointing the way to power or maybe offering money.Note that. I specifically said Amon could of adopted a persona outside of the mask, another identity. He would of worked with Tarrlock without Tarrlock knowing the truth. You did twist my words somewhat there, but methinks it was a simple miscommunication. I'm saying Amon could very well exist outside of the mask, because really, you've got to take it off sometime, that thing has to start itching after a while. That, I confess, was my mistake. '^^ I will, however, note this:But I'm still holding to my theory that Amon is not a liar and does believe in his ideals. How do I justify this? Amon is obviously a pragmatist; it is not unlikely that he could adopt a persona outside of his masked figure that would let him go around freely in public. In this persona, he could of met Tarrlock and manipulated him, either through gently pointing the way to power or maybe offering money. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to get a power-obsessed politician such as Tarrlock to do what you want if you toss in power and money in the deal. Tarrlock would of then done the things like forcing nonbenders into a curfew and such, cementing Amon's ideals in the general public, and thus reinforcing his power base."Amon is not a liar"; but in the same breath you say he lied. Yeah, yeah, "Amon's a pragmatist"; he could be wearing the mask to conceal his true identity and he excuses it with a story that gains him sympathy among non-benders. But to me, it destroys his credibility. Again, you're trying to have it both ways, and I'm just not buying it.It doesn't necessarily mean that bloodbending was used before. It just means that the Avatar state grants him enough power to do it without the moon, or to at least resist it without the moon. Aang is aware of bloodbending, so it's not a stretch to conclude that he simply applied his water bending prowess to his own blood. He knew it could be done, so he did it with the power boost he got.It's difficult to know if Hama was the first to "invent" it, since there's no indication of its use before then and the characters seemed genuinely surprised by the revelation. It seems like such a discovery would be less likely in the past, since the Fire Nation jail was specifically designed to deprive waterbenders of any water to bend, leaving blood as the only "water" around. In a less limited scenario a waterbender might not go to such lengths if an easier option is available to them.True enough, it could just be the great power of the Avatars combined, not necessarily a knowledge of bloodbending that allowed him to prevail.Certainly, if bloodbending had been previously discovered, it was as arcane as it was in Hama's time. It's always possible that in the past a waterbender found themself in such desperate straits that they discovered bloodbending, or even just through experimentation. The world may never know . . . not that it's terribly important, merely interesting.Sincerely, Nuile: Lunatic Wordsmith Edited June 21, 2012 by Nuile: The Daft Wordbender Quote When I know I can't live without a pen and paper, when I know writing is as necessary to me as breathing . . . I know I am ready to start my voyage. A Musing Author . . . Want to read my books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Amon's not a liar; but in the same breath you say he lied. Yeah, yeah, "Amon's a pragmatist"; he could be wearing the mask to conceal his true identity and he excuses it with a story that gains him sympathy among non-benders. But to me, it destroys his credibility. Again, you're trying to have it both ways, and I'm not buying it.I apologize for poor phrasing on my part; I believe that Amon isn't lying about his past or his reasons for doing this, not that he's a perfect saint and never tells a lie. But that's also assuming that Amon is concealing his identity because he's actually someone else we know or someone trying to gain power in another persona. Could just be that he actually is scarred and, if not for the mask, would be easily caught out in public. Rather than hiding the truth, he's simply being smart and keeping his identity anon to make it harder for the police. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuile the Paracosmic Tulpa Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Amon's not a liar; but in the same breath you say he lied. Yeah, yeah, "Amon's a pragmatist"; he could be wearing the mask to conceal his true identity and he excuses it with a story that gains him sympathy among non-benders. But to me, it destroys his credibility. Again, you're trying to have it both ways, and I'm not buying it.I apologize for poor phrasing on my part; I believe that Amon isn't lying about his past or his reasons for doing this, not that he's a perfect saint and never tells a lie. But that's also assuming that Amon is concealing his identity because he's actually someone else we know or someone trying to gain power in another persona. Could just be that he actually is scarred and, if not for the mask, would be easily caught out in public. Rather than hiding the truth, he's simply being smart and keeping his identity anon to make it harder for the police.And the mask makes him so much less conspicuous. But right there; we're back to what I was saying. Either Amon lied about losing his face, or he was telling the truth and therefore I don't believe Tarrlok would work with him unless Amon was not the Equalist he claimed to be.Sincerely, Nuile: Lunatic Wordsmith Quote When I know I can't live without a pen and paper, when I know writing is as necessary to me as breathing . . . I know I am ready to start my voyage. A Musing Author . . . Want to read my books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Don't Ask Don't Tell. In this case rather than being politics, Amon simply doesn't say or deny he's an equalist, he's just a scarred war or gang victim, they seem to be popular in Republic City. Without the mask he's just another scarred man, and if he's the people person I think he is, could of manipulated Tarrlock to his own ends via using Tarrlock's own plans.Of course, I'm seeing conspiracies everywhere now. I'll be satisfied if Amon is just a guy who's doing what he thinks must be done and never got involved in politics Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioGio Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 You know, looking back, we should all have realized that Tarrlok wasn't a particularly noble character from basically his second appearance. I sort of got the sense that he was angling for a police state to be created. (Of course, I felt similarly suspicious of Lin Bei Fong, because honestly she was a bit too eager to send forces to a sports game.)I know that "qi" is technically just correct as correct as "chi," but it just looks so incredibly awkward. Reading it makes absolutely no sense when the letter "q" does not have the "ch" sound in ordinary English words. So I'm most curious as to why you insist on using it so profusely.Because that's how the sound [tɕʰ], so it's considered correct. Quote dig "You're a scientist? The proposal you make violates parsimony; it introduces extra unknowns without proof for them. One might as well say unicorns power it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) CALLED ITe:everything about that was amazingYEAH LIN, BACK IN THE AWESOME SEAT AGAINAvatar state, yip yip! Edited June 23, 2012 by Bfahome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerMiner Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) HOLY SEA PICKLE THAT EPISODE ROCKED.Amon being Yakone's son was dissapointing... For about 10 seconds. KORRA IS IN THE AVATAR STATE FINALLY YES Does this mean that Korra can give normal people bending? That was so epic.. Edited June 23, 2012 by Hero: Fighter of Light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanchir Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Amon being Yakone's other son could have been carried out really poorly. But actually, the way they did it with a lengthy flashback made it work quite well. And in fact it also helped make up for the relative lack of exposition when Tarrlok was revealed as Amon's son.The way Korra got her bending back and can now restore other people's bending was great. I wasn't expecting that to be resolved this season, but they managed splendidly. Not sure what to expect from Book 2, though. I assume she's still going to have to continue her airbending training, as was the case with Aang's Waterbending in Book 2, so I suppose she'll still be hanging out with Tenzin. Quote Latest MOC: PAIGE (Prototype Artificial Intelligence, Gynoid Expression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 So Nuile was right; I tip my hat to you, good sir.Also, ****S YEAH I PREDICTED AMON WAS YAKONE'S SON.Sadly it seems Amon is not an energy bender. At the same time, it's a wise decision; if it's just blood bending, then it doesn't apply under the 'you cannot give people bending' rule.So yeah. The episode was amazing, Amon being a bender is... somewhat sad for me, as I was hoping he was honest, but alas. The honest communist will have to wait. I look forward to season 2, and I still hope it's Book: Energy. Bumi, despite only appearing for a few seconds, was amazing all the same. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Vetinari Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'm curious, are there any non-benders in positions of authority? Quote I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The only cases that are immediately clear that I can think of is Sokka, the air nomad councilman, and Bumi. The modern ruling council appears to be entirely benders, and those three have one big factor in them; Avatar Aang. Being the friend of the closest thing to a deity incarnated helps you out there. Sokka was a friend, the air nomad probably got appointed by Aang, and Bumi is Aang's son. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'm curious, are there any non-benders in positions of authority?Depends on what you mean by "authority". The "current" council is made up of all benders, but Sokka and an Air Acolyte were on it in the past, showing that bending is not required to be a representative.Other than that, we don't see much in the way of government in the show.If you define it beyond government, then Hiroshi Sato probably has some authority given how insanely rich he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shockwave~ Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 nick was having issues through the first quarter for me... but the rest was awsome.not sure what they're gonna do now. i imagine the revolutions kinda dead now, as there leader was one. Quote 3DS Freind Code: 1693-0634-1082 Name: Joey I also have Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Pokemon Y and Kid Icarus: Uprising PM me to add me. Steam profile Click here for the BZP Destiny Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Vetinari Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 ...So a nonbender needs to have been friends or associates with what amounts to a prophet to get on the council?....Nice. Real Nice. Quote I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shockwave~ Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 not necessarily. those are just the only examples. we don't know. Quote 3DS Freind Code: 1693-0634-1082 Name: Joey I also have Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Pokemon Y and Kid Icarus: Uprising PM me to add me. Steam profile Click here for the BZP Destiny Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think this is the first time I've really been disappointed by LoK. Amon being a bender was the worst possible explanation, and although it was executed very well, it still made Amon much less threatening and interesting. His villain breakdown at the end just... killed it for me. If he'd been Yakone's son, but had somehow removed his own bending because he truly believed in his ideals it'd be a different story. I was also bothered by the fact that we only got vague answers about his motivation, his plans and how exactly he did what he did. And because Tarrlok blew them up, we'll never get answers.Iroh showing up was also not all it was cracked up to be. At the end of episode nine we were all "Awesome warboats are showing up with Zuko's grandkid, big battle is incoming!" And then they show up and are destroyed by the planes in a matter of minutes. Iroh doesn't even seem to care his fleet was anihilated, and then he spends the rest of the finale fighting planes. And yeah, it was cool, but it really wasn't necessary. Throwing him in seemed fanservicy to me. I was also hoping Korra would have to, you know, do stuff to get her bending out. Aang giving her her powers back just like that counteracted the whole patience thing LoK has going on. And I mean, the Avatar has mastered all four elements. Cool, but now what? What's she supposed to lean next season? I suppose this decision was reached when LoK was only supposed to be 12 episodes, but still.Now, I didn't hate or even dislike the fihnale, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't what I was expecting. It could've been handled better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think if Amon did truly believe in what he was doing, like Tarrlok said, his plan was to keep his powers in order to "equalize" all benders, but then use it on himself. He can't do the take-away thing without his bloodbending, and as far as public relations goes, taking people's powers is a lot better for your image than genocide, even if you do have to lie to everyone. I figure, if his motivation was genuine, that secretly being a bender was a calculated risk.Of course, I personally don't think his ideals were totally honest, and his main desire was power....So a nonbender needs to have been friends or associates with what amounts to a prophet to get on the council?....Nice. Real Nice.Yeah, it's not like Sokka did anything to earn the position himself. It was all Aang.(Did you forget the part where he kicked butt throughout the first three seasons?)Seriously it seems like you're just taking things and deliberately interpreting them in the worst possible way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanchir Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Anti-bender sentiment surely still exists, just as anti-Avatar sentiment surely existed in the Fire Nation after Aang won the war. But I don't think the Equalist movement will remain a threat any longer except maybe as disorganized thugs. Their leader, the individual on whose trust the whole movement was founded, has been exposed as a fraud. It's possible Amon's lieutenant or other high-ranking Equalists might remain involved in the movement, but it will no longer be a major threat to Republic City or to the rest of the world any more than the bending street gangs that they sought to eliminate.Meanwhile, there's now an easy way to lessen anti-bender sentiment in Republic City-- appoint/elect a non-bender from the Northern Water Tribe to take Tarrlok's place in the council. In fact, since the other council members (other than Tenzin) probably got their bending taken away, perhaps one of them could choose to continue without it, thus maintaining the trust of non-benders and benders alike. Though obviously, given how important bending is to people's identities, making such a choice would be a huge self-sacrifice and it would have to be one said council member arrives at by their own decision, not by caving to external pressures.Anyway, while everyone else was busy making Korra finale blog entries, I made a blog entry discussing the Avatar: The Last Airbender graphic novels I just got from Amazon.com here! Don't worry, nothing too spoilery. Just a discussion of what I liked best in the graphic novels, which won't reveal anything all that critical to those who haven't read them. Quote Latest MOC: PAIGE (Prototype Artificial Intelligence, Gynoid Expression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Vetinari Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 That wasn't what I was saying, he certainly earned it. But there is a huge disparity between benders and nonbenders on the council and considering nonbenders make up most of the population....Just doesn't sit right with me. Quote I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorek Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Episode was fantastic. I thought they had gotten rid of Tarrlok a bit too quickly, so it was nice to see him again. I don't particularly have a problem with the ending (it seemed designed to be fairly closed) but the leadup to it bothered me a bit; right before the closure we have this branching off to what seems like it will be an open-ended final moment. I would have even been okay with the thing ending on the "ohay look, Korra got her powers back". But the final moments of "JUST SO YOU KNOW EVERYTHING IS OKAY NOW" dragged on a bit.That said, Amon (how do you spell his real name?) and Tarrlok's final moments were a masterstroke of genius and tragedy, which made up for it. I didn't expect things to be that dark, but I was wrong.Everything else was great. I had expected Asami to die, but we'll see what season 2 brings for her (and Hiroshi), again. And even Mustache Man had a great moment.PRISON BREAK Quote BS01's Ambassador (Like us, Follow us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 nonbenders make up most of the population....Has there ever been anything that actually says this? As far as I know, there's been no real statistics on the population of the Avatar world.Plus, they're representatives, they don't have to match the most common traits of their constituents as long as they accurately convey the people's interests.Maybe most people feel that wielding the element associated with one's nation puts someone more in touch with their culture? I don't know, but aside from Tarrlok none of the council seems particularly devious about anything. In fact I wish they had been given better characterization beyond raising their hands. If anything they're doormats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shockwave~ Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 i still like the " why is there fence posts but no fence?" when i heard fencepost i saw what was coming. Quote 3DS Freind Code: 1693-0634-1082 Name: Joey I also have Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Pokemon Y and Kid Icarus: Uprising PM me to add me. Steam profile Click here for the BZP Destiny Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Humva Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks that if the authors had been given two 24 episode seasons, like they had in TLA, that the season finale would of turned out much better, and indeed, the season as a whole? We had great episodes to be sure, but double the amount would of given us so much more time to explore the city and the characters. Quote 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 "In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryker055 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think this is the first time I've really been disappointed by LoK. Amon being a bender was the worst possible explanation, and although it was executed very well, it still made Amon much less threatening and interesting. His villain breakdown at the end just... killed it for me. If he'd been Yakone's son, but had somehow removed his own bending because he truly believed in his ideals it'd be a different story. I was also bothered by the fact that we only got vague answers about his motivation, his plans and how exactly he did what he did. And because Tarrlok blew them up, we'll never get answers.Iroh showing up was also not all it was cracked up to be. At the end of episode nine we were all "Awesome warboats are showing up with Zuko's grandkid, big battle is incoming!" And then they show up and are destroyed by the planes in a matter of minutes. Iroh doesn't even seem to care his fleet was anihilated, and then he spends the rest of the finale fighting planes. And yeah, it was cool, but it really wasn't necessary. Throwing him in seemed fanservicy to me.I was also hoping Korra would have to, you know, do stuff to get her bending out. Aang giving her her powers back just like that counteracted the whole patience thing LoK has going on. And I mean, the Avatar has mastered all four elements. Cool, but now what? What's she supposed to lean next season? I suppose this decision was reached when LoK was only supposed to be 12 episodes, but still.Now, I didn't hate or even dislike the fihnale, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't what I was expecting. It could've been handled better. I'm right here with you on this one. I didn't hate it, but it was a huge letdown. At first I hated Amon's identity, but upon his resolution (Tarrlok's murder-suicide was one heck of a wham moment, and the backstory for both of them as sufficiently tragic) I warmed up to it a bit. What I didn't like was the explanation of how he debended people and how quickly it was resolved. They could've at least explained what was actually being done through the bloodbending.I also don't hate that Aang gave Korra the power to give people their bending back, but I just wish they would've done something less... obvious. More interesting. Eh, whatever. I wish Korra's Avatar State awakening could've been a bit more epic, but again, it's not terrible. The Lieutenant was the one-scene wonder for me. Too bad he didn't last long.So overall, I didn't hate it, but I was very disappointed. It was So Okay It's Average. Here's hoping for a better Season 2, assuming we do indeed get one. Things got pretty effectively wrapped up at the end of this one. Quote Check out Brown Box Reviews, where I review toys... and that's about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorek Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks that if the authors had been given two 24 episode seasons, like they had in TLA, that the season finale would of turned out much better, and indeed, the season as a whole? We had great episodes to be sure, but double the amount would of given us so much more time to explore the city and the characters.I'm not normally one to comment on this, but...augh"would have", not "would of". If there's anything that grinds me gears, it's that.However. To actually respond to your point... maybe. We'll never really know; I had assumed it was an executive decision to just do a shorter season (and then they were like "hey waitaminute... this is cool stuff. Give us another." but it might have been a creative one. They stressed that there would be no filler as a result of the shorter amount of episodes, and I think the series benefits from it. Obviously more Korra would be fantastic, but I did tend to tune out of TLA here and there because there were some episodes of little-to-no consequence, and I like knowing that every single episode here is the core plot. Quote BS01's Ambassador (Like us, Follow us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfahome Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks that if the authors had been given two 24 episode seasons, like they had in TLA, that the season finale would of turned out much better, and indeed, the season as a whole? We had great episodes to be sure, but double the amount would of given us so much more time to explore the city and the characters.Yes, I think this season (or story arc) deserved far more than twelve episodes. There's a lot that could've happened but didn't, the character development wouldn't have seemed so rushed, and the relationship debacle wouldn't have been quite so prominent. Even if it led to some more filler, I don't care, since at least it would've given a better sense that time was actually passing in the series. Focusing only on the big things may be good content-wise, but I could easily imagine the entire season (sans flashbacks, obviously) having taken place within a week or two. Maybe three, depending on how dense the Pro-Bending schedule is (and really, that's the main thing that indicates time).Granted, it's still an excellent show, and stands right up there with the first three seasons, but with more room it probably could've been better than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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