Prometheus

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

I just got back from seeing the movie Prometheus, and it was incredible. Anyone else seeing it?

I was surprised at the end, about the engineer. At first I was somewhat pleasantly surprised by it's hostility, but then I was expecting him to die on the ship controls, just like how we see one in the movie Alien, perhaps this is something of an alternate timeline like Star Trek? Not sure, but it was quite interesting.

I also live the things it talks about and the questions it poses. Such as the ones about creationism and the firm and deep stab to scientific optimism. Especially considering how sci-fi is usually enlightened but this movie was delightfully romantic, curiosity killed the cat indeed.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Proud Stigma

[Transcendence]

Haven't seen it, but holy carp, the soundtrack in the trailer... it's so atmospheric, huge, incredible and mind-blowing. Gotta listen to it all the time!

[Zulu Yankee Kilo Echo]

I want to see this movie so bad, it looks AWESOME!

[Transcendence]

Oh, and Charlize Theron is part of the cast so that makes it a killer movie, no matter what. That woman knows how to act. Always. I respect her a lot.

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

Haven't seen it, but holy carp, the soundtrack in the trailer... it's so atmospheric, huge, incredible and mind-blowing.Gotta listen to it all the time!

I know what you mean man, even in the trailer it was good but you will love it when you see the movie, spectacular indeed.

[Havelock Vetinari]

curiosity killed the cat indeed.

That's why the cat needs to develop plasma weapons. :PI haven't seen the movie yet, but I plan to attend a showing soon.

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

curiosity killed the cat indeed.

That's why the cat needs to develop plasma weapons. :PI haven't seen the movie yet, but I plan to attend a showing soon.

You'll probably want more then just plasma...

They seem to do absolutely nothing to the engineer, there was also a mutated crew member who got shot with plasma and set on fire and he ate what had to be several clips of ammo before finally going down.

[Takatu]

I can't find anyone to go see it with. >:| I've been pout-y all day about it lol.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Curses! Science don't fail me now!*Charges into the laboratory*The themes Proud described are quite interesting. Not what I would expect of a sci-fi movie at all. Though it is ironic, since from what Sky says, the movie seems have an almost anti-science approach to it....but if science did not exist we would never have the weapons needed to face such creatures.Fascinating.

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

It can seem that way, now I know we are talking from the perspective of a sci-fi movie, which usually tend to be pro-science. Though if you ask me, even if science became the most advanced it could be in all of time and existence, it still would not be able to answer all questions or solve all problems.

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

Your mentioning these things make the movie make a lot more sense, as prior to this I only saw the first Alien movie. The thing you mentioned in the second tag is something that the movie hinted at, but I disregarded and did not know until reading it just now.I personally loved the discussion between David and Charlie, (don't worry this won't spoil much if anything) where David asks Charlie why they made him. Charlie responds by shrugging his shoulders and saying "because we could". David then mentions that everyone there would probably be upset if humans were made for the same reason. I love this discussion because as humans we like to think we are special beings (and by extension, if we were made then our makers had a special reason to make us and/or special intentions for us), what David does is be (as far as I know) possibly the only one to question this expectation a lot of people seem to have, saying that humans may not have been special at all and we were just something either done lazily/carelessly or "because they could", I find it fun and quite necessary to explore when thinking of these things.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Proud Stigma

[Bundalings]

I just saw the movie, and thought it was fantastic. It dragged a little at times, but I suppose that was just to set up the atmosphere.I was confused, though, by the variety of aliens and where they came from.

I'm guessing the facehuggers/worm things were some sort of accident, created when the black goo touched the regular worms it kept showing on the ground.But then, I'm confused by the life cycle of the xenomorph. Charlie drinks some ooze, gives it to Shaw, who birth a squid... who infects an Engineer, who chestbusts a xenomorph. I guess that makes sense if my theory about the wormy monsters just being accidents is true, but if they were some intentional product, where do they fit into this lifecycle?

This is all coming from someone who's only knowledge of Alien comes from cultural osmosis.

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

I just saw the movie, and thought it was fantastic. It dragged a little at times, but I suppose that was just to set up the atmosphere.I was confused, though, by the variety of aliens and where they came from.

I'm guessing the facehuggers/worm things were some sort of accident, created when the black goo touched the regular worms it kept showing on the ground.But then, I'm confused by the life cycle of the xenomorph. Charlie drinks some ooze, gives it to Shaw, who birth a squid... who infects an Engineer, who chestbusts a xenomorph. I guess that makes sense if my theory about the wormy monsters just being accidents is true, but if they were some intentional product, where do they fit into this lifecycle?

This is all coming from someone who's only knowledge of Alien comes from cultural osmosis.

Contains spoilers from Alien.

That "squid" thing is what I like to call an impregnator, though I am not sure what the technical name is. In the first Alien movie it is what gave birth to the xenomorphs by latching onto one of the crew's face, said crew member did die by having a baby xenomorph pop out of his stomach. But either way everytime I have seen someone give birth to one, they had an impregnator on their face at some point, though the one in the first Alien movie was not that large, barely enough to hug the face of a victim, then again, that particular on in Alien was a newborn.

[Havelock Vetinari]

It can seem that way, now I know we are talking from the perspective of a sci-fi movie, which usually tend to be pro-science. Though if you ask me, even if science became the most advanced it could be in all of time and existence, it still would not be able to answer all questions or solve all problems.

Difference of opinion. I think the only chance we have to truly understand and survive lays within use of science. People with different views will draw different messages from this movie. Edited June 14, 2012 by Basilisk

[Bundalings]

Contains spoilers from Alien.

That "squid" thing is what I like to call an impregnator, though I am not sure what the technical name is. In the first Alien movie it is what gave birth to the xenomorphs by latching onto one of the crew's face, said crew member did die by having a baby xenomorph pop out of his stomach. But either way everytime I have seen someone give birth to one, they had an impregnator on their face at some point, though the one in the first Alien movie was not that large, barely enough to hug the face of a victim, then again, that particular on in Alien was a newborn.

Then what were the worms that broke that guy's arm early on? I'm not seeing how they fit into this life cycle.

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

This is speculation, but I don't think they do. Personally I think they were only present in the movie to illustrate the effects of the mysterious black ooze, seeing as the first victim whom they entered through his mouth was not mutated, just dead. Then the impregnators were created differently as you saw, and the Engineer was later giving birth after he was dead.

@ Basillisk: For sake of not instigating a debate, and laying a particular aspect aside, the beauty of art is the subjectivity.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Indeed. Subjectivity is an excellent trait for a movie to have.

[Vorahk1Panrahk2]

Saw the movie yesterday, and while my opinion is probably biased, I loved it. I went in expected a movie that meshed with the Alien universe while distancing itself from it, and that's exactly what I got. Is it flawed? Yes. The screenplay had issues, and some questions were left unanswered. But I enjoyed it so I'm willing to overlook them.

Contains spoilers from Alien.

That "squid" thing is what I like to call an impregnator, though I am not sure what the technical name is. In the first Alien movie it is what gave birth to the xenomorphs by latching onto one of the crew's face, said crew member did die by having a baby xenomorph pop out of his stomach. But either way everytime I have seen someone give birth to one, they had an impregnator on their face at some point, though the one in the first Alien movie was not that large, barely enough to hug the face of a victim, then again, that particular on in Alien was a newborn.

Then what were the worms that broke that guy's arm early on? I'm not seeing how they fit into this life cycle.

I think there are two possibilities here: The first is that an alien did in fact burst out of his, and we just didn't see it. After all, the worm did climb into his mouth the same way it did the Engineer at the end of movie. Also it seemed to have acid for blood, the same way everything related to the Xenomorph does. But why would the black ooze allow the life cycle to bypass egg and facehugger stage? No idea.The second option is that, as Proud Stigma said, the worm has nothing to do with the alien, and is just to show how the black ooze mutates living things. Given the premise of the movie, and the fact that Ridley Scott wants to distance this movie from Alien (something that, in my opinion, he did not accomplish), I think this is the more likely option.Also, maybe I was seeing things, but when the team entered the giant head chamber, it looked like there was image on the wall of a Xenomorph standing in a cross position. Anyone have any idea what that's about?

Edited June 15, 2012 by Vorahk1Panrahk2

[Jean Valjean]

I was going to post this topic the day after I watched it (or rather, on the same day, since I watched it at midnight), but I didn't have internet connection. So, with a heavy heart I concede the honor or starting such a topic to Stigma.Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out what the heck I just saw. I watched it twice, and I still haven't pieced much together. Actually, I like it, because Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection tried to quantify the aliens too much and explore the science behind them. It took away from the primary horror element of the first and second films, in which the aliens were the Its that came from Beyond. They were scary because you didn't know what they were. I think Prometheus brought that back. It's like the things I've heard about Lovecraftian cosmic horror. I've never actually read his stories but I know their elements. This is a perfect embodiment.I disagree with Tilius on what they should have done. Let me put it this way: I watched it a second time with my sister, and she really liked the ending for being okay with faith. If it had been more clear, I know for a fact she would hate the film, because then it feels like it's taking a stance, and that's not the point of the narrative. I like it generally as something gets you thinking. And it works for me, because I think the biggest underlying theme of the film was "What do you choose to believe when you're not given an answer?"Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh

[P~M]

I loved the references to Dune and 2001. I did not love how unbelievably stupid some of the characters were. "Oh, look! An alien snake thing! What to do... Oh, I know! Let's touch it!" Yeesh...

[Ultimate_Kardas]

I for one loved the movie. It definitely had it's problems, but overall I thought it was great.I found it funny though when they were walking, and the camera panned down to the floor and some little worms crawled out. I was just like "Hey! I feed my lizard those!"And even though David was amazing, this pretty much sums up my thoughts: (spoilers)~U_K~

[Xomeron]

UNMARKED SPOILERS AHEADI was really disappointed at this film. The Scientists were stupid beyond suspension of disbelief. But what really got me was the bad science; they tell us that the Engineers are genetically identical to humans.SO WHY ARE THEY TEN FEET TALL AND GREY?The end was predictable, oh so predictable, including the early model Xenomorph. The twist with Vickers? Saw it coming. The twist with Weylon? Saw it coming. Prometheus tried hard to live up to the legacy of Alien. It failed. Badly.

[Jean Valjean]

@PM: Yeah, I totally got the references, too, especially with David. The touching thing, though, is practically a mandatory moronic act in all horror films. They're required to have a moment where someone says "Don't touch that!" I laugh at it like it's a meme, because it almost is.@UK: Yeah, I noticed after the film that David did a lot of that. TV Tropes actually said this about the previously mentioned trope about touching: "David. Enough said. Unless you haven't seen the movie, in which case we apologize for not having seen enough."@cardworkMagician: I believed it. Just a few genes out of billions can make all the difference. Individual humans genetically vary by only the smallest of fractions, at the very most only 0.5%, and out of the countless genes in a strand of DNA, height and skin color account for only about a dozen genes. There are 7 foot tall Sudanese tribesmen and really short Native Americans, and yet in spite of all of their differences they're both human. Also consider that chimpanzees are 96-98% genetically identical to humans, and cats are 90% identical to us. I'd say that the Engineers had more in common with us than either of those two species.The intelligence of the scientists in question was believable. There were moments of stupidity, but Alien had those, too. They didn't quite break my willing suspension of disbelief.I don't think the predictability of the ending was an issue Ridley Scott cared about. He openly included it in the advertisements, and I think that even if he hadn't, we've all seen enough horror films that nothing comes as a surprise anymore anyway unless the whole point of the film is to build up to one big surprise, and you can't expect every film to be like that. Alien wasn't like that. I think you radically missed everything the artist was trying to express.Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh

[Vorahk1Panrahk2]

The end was predictable, oh so predictable, including the early model Xenomorph. The twist with Vickers? Saw it coming. The twist with Weylon? Saw it coming.

By 'twist with Vickers', do you mean the fact that she's Weyland's daughter? I'm actually still trying to figure out how that's relevant to anything. It seemed pretty unnecessary, and as a result I didn't feel any dramatic effect by the reveal.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Vorahk1Panrahk2

[Xomeron]

EK: Those Engineers, if they were built on human DNA, couldn't live; the human heart isn't powerful enough to pump blood to anyone more than about eight feet tall; this is what killed Andre the Giant

[Jean Valjean]

Which is why I mentioned that other species that don't look human here on Earth are also genetically very close to humans. The differences between the engineers and humans still don't seem to be enough that they're have to be any less than 99% identical. I'm assuming that when they said identical they meant a near complete match. After all, if they were unrelated to humans and evolved differently, the same alleles could have been expressed through genes absolutely nothing like that of a human's.I'm assuming that they were also comparing the genes to a sample of male DNA. It could very well be that a male human could have more in common genetically with a male Engineer than with a female human. Females have an entire chromosome not present in males, and while they are of the same species as their male counterparts and could be considered "identical" by that virtue, males and females have completely different organs. So I think that a male Engineer could have a few different genes so that its heart isn't the same organ as we humans know it, a stronger heart, and it would still be nearly identical to a human male.You could also consider that the very real possibility that the Engineers came from a planet with lighter gravity. Failing that assumption, it's also likely that even if their hearts were like human's, the species was advanced enough that they could live with it by inventing special steroids to give it strength. It could also explain their height and other features, which might not be genetic qualities. Asides from their black goo, it seems that their clothes seamlessly blend into their bodies and the entire structure of their ship seems organic, not to mention they had a temple dedicated to a certain organic friend we're all familiar with, so they have clearly applied their biological and medical sciences to all areas of their life.The scientists at the time were also clearly excited and prone to overstatement. That's how I read it while watching the film.Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh Edited July 8, 2012 by Emperor Kraggh

[Visaru]

I liked it. And also, I thought it was practically a direct prequel to Aliens, before I read this:

Prometheus is set on a different planet to the one in Alien, so the Engineer in the chair in Alien is a different one on a different planet.

And that totally changed what the movie was about. Now it was about the Engineers, and the way they created humanity, not the Aliens.But also, I was confused on some things-1- Why does the Engineer head explode in the lab?2- Was the black goo Alien blood or something related to the Alien DNA? It might be a reasonable theory, seeing that the worm thing it created had soem Alien-like attributes.3- Why did David impregnate Noomi Rapace's husband? To evolve the Alien into it's squid-monster form and then to the Xenomorph form? I assume he discovered how it works by some sort of scanner and wanted to use it as a weapon for Weyland.4- Why did the archeoligist with red hair mutate into a super-guy? Just the black goo again?5- And how did the Alien in Prometheus relate to the actual Aliens from Alien and Aliens and the sequels?

Edited July 9, 2012 by Visaru

[Turag Brookback]

My biggest problem with Prometheus is that other films like Alien versus Predator, whether you’re a fan of it or not, show that the Aliens have been around for a very long time already. Long before the crew of the Prometheus set off to find the Engineers at any rate.What follows is purely speculation on my part:I choose to believe that the Aliens already exist and that the Engineers are aware of them, perhaps studying them. Why? They are perfectly evolved killing machines and if you want to create a biological weapon capable of wiping out an entire species, they’re a good place to start.The Engineers could have created the black goo based on the Aliens, deconstructed their DNA maybe, to produce a substance just as dangerous but – supposedly – more manageable.We know that the Aliens mutate in embryo form to take on the attributes of their host, so it makes some kind of sense that the goo would have mutagenic properties too. In this case, however, it mutates those it infects to give them attributes of the Aliens; such as the worms having acidic blood, Fifield becoming more bestial and, in my opinion, attacking in an Alien-like way. Shaw’s “baby”, fertilised by the infected Holloway, had several similarities to a Facehugger, including its method of impregnating and it grew very quickly, like newborn Aliens. The creature at the end was, of course, very Alien-like.So that’s how I choose to see things anyway. Prometheus is not so much the origin story of the Aliens, but rather it showcases the effects of an experiment based on them. Perhaps the Engineer at the beginning of Alien was in the middle of studying them when it all went wrong for him.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Turag Brookback

[Visaru]

There's no way the Alien would have naturally evolved. It's too perfect. It would wipe out its entire food source.The engineers created Aliens as a superweapon. Maybe just to destroy humanity, but maybe not. The aliens were probably around far before Prometheus got there, they just ran into some weird alternate forms of the Alien. I beleive. That's how I saw it.

[Jean Valjean]

In response to Visaru's questions:

But also, I was confused on some things-1- Why does the Engineer head explode in the lab?I don't know about that one, but from my understanding of the director's intent with the film, I think Ridley Scott wanted to throw a curveball because he didn't want everything about the black goo to be explainable (presuming the black goo was what infected the engineer in the first place). The more the Alien gets boiled down into a science, the less scary it is and you sacrifice the classic element in horror of the fear of the unknown. In cosmic horror, the threat isn't as scary if you know what it is.2- Was the black goo Alien blood or something related to the Alien DNA? It might be a reasonable theory, seeing that the worm thing it created had soem Alien-like attributes.I don't believe it was Alien blood, otherwise it would have been acidic. I think it was some sort of mutagen that started the process of evolving creatures in the direction of creating the Alien.3- Why did David impregnate Noomi Rapace's husband? To evolve the Alien into it's squid-monster form and then to the Xenomorph form? I assume he discovered how it works by some sort of scanner and wanted to use it as a weapon for Weyland.He wasn't actually her husband, just her love interest, but on to your actual question. What actually happened was that Charlie said he'd do "anything and everything" to find out more about the Engineers, inadvertently giving David permission to poison him. David was ordered by Peter Weyland to "try harder", and I interpreted this as David experimenting. There's a viral video on the internet called Happy Birthday David where he says that he can do things that coworkers might "be uncomfortable with or find unethical", which I think was one of the ways in which Ridley Scott was setting up for this event. On a final note, since the mutagen appears to mutate organisms in the direction of becoming more and more like the Aliens with successive generations, I gathered that while Charlie had not undergone a full bodily transformation, on the cellular level his sperm were affected so that they would produce a facehugger fetus when settled in the uterus. It looks like David's investment turned out in the red.4- Why did the archeoligist with red hair mutate into a super-guy? Just the black goo again?Yeah, I think so.5- And how did the Alien in Prometheus relate to the actual Aliens from Alien and Aliens and the sequels?I'm not sure. It's called the Deacon by Ridley Scott and clearly of a different breed. I guessed that it looked different because of its non-human host, but its manner of birth was also incongruous with the Alien in Alien. Its parent facehugger, however, was different as well. It's hard to say the relation, but I suppose Ridley Scott meant to keep it that way. My guess is that he through it in to confirm that the mutagen created creatures that indeed did evolve in the direction of the Xenomorph after successive generations, but he kept it just different enough that the connection with the original Alien wasn't clear and people could feel free to scratch their heads.

To my understanding, Prometheus is also discontinuous with the AVP series, which is just as well. As much as I enjoyed them for simple action and as an opportunity to see my favorite costume played with, I dread that they would be considered canon. I think that it's just something that uses Alien's name, and could be part of the same franchise, but it isn't part of the same canon. In the case of Prometheus, the founder of Weyland Industries is Peter Weyland and not Charles Bishop Weyland, firmly establishing two different continuities.Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh

Edited July 11, 2012 by Merida

[The Lord Of Wednesday]

There was actually something in the movie that I wanted to point out earlier that I absolutely love. The naivete of the scientists in the movie, and how it is a very stupid thing put into practice. When you look at scientists today, they talk about the future as though all problems have ended and they will never happen again in the future. Granted there is nothing wrong with optimism, but even I know that it is probably a good idea to take some kind of weapon with you when exploring an alien world, and not approach a mutated alien worm with the idea that it won't pull some defensive moves on a biped it has never encountered before.

[Visaru]

To my understanding, Prometheus is also discontinuous with the AVP series, which is just as well. As much as I enjoyed them for simple action and as an opportunity to see my favorite costume played with, I dread that they would be considered canon. I think that it's just something that uses Alien's name, and could be part of the same franchise, but it isn't part of the same canon. In the case of Prometheus, the founder of Weyland Industries is Peter Weyland and not Charles Bishop Weyland, firmly establishing two different continuities.

Thanks for answering my questions, and for clarifying what the black goo actually was.And I agree about AVP. Predators didn't really fit with the sort of vision Ridley scott had of extraterrestrials- he saw them as strange, unexplainable things. The predators, from what I've read, seem sort like an average alien society. And I can't imagine the Alien in modern day times. It just doesn't work with their discovery in the future. (AVP did happen in modern era, right? If not, I feel a little stupid.)And I just saw the Weyland enterprises website. My goodness...That is a lot of background information. How many colonies did they describe in that website? It really expands the world so much, having that sort of rich site full of tiny little things. And, according to that site, people discovered life on Europa. That sort of explains a lot of the character's 'I don't care' reactions to the Engineers. A lot of that was survival instinct, but you'd think the people would be mildly interested if Engineers were the first alien life forms ever. Seeing as bacterial lifeforms have been seen, their reactions seem more justified to me. Maybe I'm just projecting how ecstatic I'd be if I saw the first extraterrestrials ever.

[Jean Valjean]

Were you actually able to read my spoiler? It did that thing where it only showed part of the information and stopped after the first paragraph, and I just noticed and edited it now.Anyway, I've been on a few other sites and have found the typical stuff about people bashing the film for being a big waste of their time. While I guess some of this comes from confusion, there's also the demographic that thinks that this is just typical Hollywood trying to get easy money. I don't think that's what this is really about at all. AVP, maybe, but this was directed by Ridley Scott, and he doesn't need to resort to cheap tricks to get an audience and make money. Unfortunately I think that for some people that will, no matter what, read this way, when it's more about the director finding an area where he'd like to exercise his artistic vision, and the Alien universe was apparently a place he wasn't finished with.Merida

[Visaru]

Actually I think the popularity of Alien and the money Ridley Scott could make was a little bit of a draw for him, but he also had this story about the origins of humanity he wanted to tell.And yup. I was able to read it. Glitch didn't affect me.

[Toa Zaz]

Hopefully, they'll release a director's cut of Prometheus that answers more questions and resolves it a little more, like they did with Blade Runner.