Water In The Chutes?

[The Iron Toa]

Aren't the transport chutes in Metru Nui filled with (protodermic) water? If so, how do the Matoran use them? Do they hold their breath? It doesn't seem like they could do that long enough to get anywhere.

[Meiko]

Yeah, they are filled with protodermis. I'm pretty sure that you can "breath" in protodermis, because it appears to have been done many times in many places.

[Taipu1]

What with our lack of understanding of the chemical nature of protodermis, so I don't think it can necessarily be called Protodermic water.Pretty sure someone had a theory that Protodermis was some kind of element/molecule that latched onto normal molecules, hence why non-protodermic stuff exists outside of the MU, and how a Toa of water could control Protodermic or non-protodermic water.It's certainly something protodermic in the chutes, given they can breath in it, I wouldn't say it was water. Possibly it is some form of air that when following the above theory becomes a liquid when with the protodermis element. This could explain how breathing is possible.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Taipu1

[The Iron Toa]

Oh, so it's not water, as in the water equivalent in the rest of the universe. So it's like an equivalent to liquid oxygen, maybe, except not extremely cold?

[Cambion]

I remember reading somewhere that passengers are required to hold their breath while riding in a chute. Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly--I'll try to find proof. But also, let me remind you that the only times that characters spoke inside a chute were in the 2nd and 3rd movies, which are not entirely canon.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Architect

[fishers64]

I remember reading somewhere that passengers are required to hold their breath while riding in a chute. Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly--I'll try to find proof. But also, let me remind you that the only times that characters spoke inside a chute were in the 2nd and 3rd movies, which are not entirely canon.

Nobody rode a chute in the third movie, and movies are more canon than other things. As for the question, it's a breathable fluid that doesn't have the properties of water - some type of breathable proto in a magnetic field.

[The Iron Toa]

I get it. Thanks, guys.

[bonesiii]

Actually, Greg confirmed that it is magnetized protowater. Other than being magnetized it is the same as the protowater in the Silver Sea, etc. Yes, they have to hold their breaths, but the chutes send them along at high enough speeds that this is not a problem, and probably being biomechanical and not functioning like us, they can hold their breaths for longer.Also, Taipu1, you implied that breathing is connected with protodermic substances, but it's the opposite. Greg confirmed the air in the MU that they breathe is not protodermic but is the same as the air on Spherus Magna. They cannot breathe protodermis.Unfortunately the movies made this all far more confusing by depicting them talking inside chutes, but this was confirmed non-canon. You -could- talk in chutes, but you'd make bubbles and sound distorted like talking underwater, and it would be dangerous as you're releasing your breath as you do. I forget exactly what really happened canonically in those scenes; it might be mentioned in the books, I don't recall, but they might have actually been talking while the sound and appearance of it in the movie would be artistic license, oversimplifying it.It's possible the magnetized nature of the water might enable something like breathing inside it, but as far as I know that is only fan speculation, not confirmed fact. Everything else we've seen in the canon says that you cannot breathe in protowater unless you have a Mask of Water Breathing or some such thing, and I don't see why magnetizing it would change that. It being magnetized was so that the machinery around it can control its speed and direction of flow.Edit: One simple solution although this was never confirmed, would be for all the tubes to simply not be filled totally, so there would be a space of air above the water always so people could surface like dolphins to breathe.

Edited June 12, 2012 by bonesiii

[Taipu1]

Also, Taipu1, you implied that breathing is connected with protodermic substances, but it's the opposite. Greg confirmed the air in the MU that they breathe is not protodermic but is the same as the air on Spherus Magna. They cannot breathe protodermis.

My implication was entirely misread. What I was trying to put across was that it wasn't possible for them to breath in water, Proto or not. I was thinking that were protodermis an element that attaches to other molecules, it could, for whatever reason, make air liquid, but the matoran could still breath this confusing proto-air liquid. The air outside the chutes would be non-protodermic, but they breath both proto and non-proto air the same.I'll admit it was poorly put across, and I'm not sure I conveyed what was going through my head at all well. It was also incorrect, if Gregs confirmed it's definitely proto-water.

[Dralcax]

They can hold their breath but still function, like a laptop being unplugged and running on battery power, they don't need outside sources, only what is stored in them, but it will run out sooner or later, but they can get there first.

[fishers64]

*re-watches chute movie segment* There's only one real instance of talking in there, where Nokama yells "Hang on!" when the flow is reversed, and a few grunts. I guess. even when holding breath, shock can do that to you. Or it's just creative license; I'm pretty sure it wasn't mentioned in the book. The Piraka/Inika are mentioned to have high lung capacity. Not sure if that extends to other Matoran/Toa, but that might be why they can hold there breath for longer. Also, wouldn't magnetizing the stuff make it move to the outside of the chute, leaving air in the middle? That's what it looks like in the movie.

[Makuta Matata]

I always thought it was magnetism...

[Katuko]

To me, it seemed like both the movie and the set animation of Matau depicted the chutes as having a water-like outer shell but a less dense fluid/air channel inside.

[Toa Zaz]

Huh. I'd thought it had some kind of liquid air deal like in The Abyss...So you have to hold your breath the duration of your travel? Seems impractical...

[bonesiii]

What I was trying to put across was that it wasn't possible for them to breath in water, Proto or not. I was thinking that were protodermis an element that attaches to other molecules, it could, for whatever reason, make air liquid, but the matoran could still breath this confusing proto-air liquid. The air outside the chutes would be non-protodermic, but they breath both proto and non-proto air the same.I'll admit it was poorly put across, and I'm not sure I conveyed what was going through my head at all well. It was also incorrect, if Gregs confirmed it's definitely proto-water.

I see. But yeah, it's probably for the best that something like this wasn't done as it's more confusing. I have for fanfics imagined something like this, but yeah.

There's only one real instance of talking in there, where Nokama yells "Hang on!" when the flow is reversed, and a few grunts. I guess. even when holding breath, shock can do that to you. Or it's just creative license; I'm pretty sure it wasn't mentioned in the book.

Alright, thanks for the info. Point is, that scene itself can be canon except for the visual and sound details of the talking itself, which we can attribute to cheap animation software or the like lol.

Also, wouldn't magnetizing the stuff make it move to the outside of the chute, leaving air in the middle? That's what it looks like in the movie.

Well, the purpose of it being magnetized was to move it forward through the tunnel, and thus carry along everybody else too. If what you said was the case then everything metal would simply stick to the outside too and it would be a drowning trap. The magnetism pulls the protowater and the beings inside forward. Anything nonmetallic is carried along by the water current as well.This can work easily if the outer casing functions something like a coil of electrified wire, by the way, under real-world physics. Electromagnets like that create a magnetic field with the polar line running right through the tube, parallel with its walls, not perpendicular. A magnetized liquid could thus be drawn through a tube like that in the same way. If a real-world ferroliquid was used, probably parts of the iron shards inside -would- be attracted to the wires, I dunno (you'd need the Mythbusters ), but this is a fictional liquid substance that is itself magnetized.Anyways, probably you're confusing the substance of the outer shell, which was also somewhat liquid (its solidity could be dialed up and down, and was down thus more liquid at chute stations), with the protowater inside the chute itself. Two different substances. I just found a clip on a certain site we can't mention, and it's clear from liquidlike texture flowing throughout the whole inside that the protowater is not just stuck on the walls but everywhere inside. You're probably looking at the parts where they dig their Toa Tools into the outer substance and it breaks up like a liquid and is forced along through the interior flow.But notice that that outer substance does not flow over the metal bracing rings; it is not the protowater but the other unknown protodermic substance that forms the walls, and that it is immediately mixed with the other substance filling the interior and pushed forward strongly by the current. Also, in 2005 the outer wall substance was shown having totally solidified, similar to crystallizing, and shattered at various places, the protowater itself having totally leaked out and dried up. This makes it clear it's a different substance.Also notice that Nokama uses her Toa Tools to swim in the inside substance the same as she would in any other water, strongly implying she has elemental control of it. At one point she and the other two Toa near her slow down with respect to everything else, which was apparently her slowing the water down elementally, perhaps to get a better sight through the walls of where they were.This is all made the clearest IMO on page 61 of the City Guide, BTW, which I have. Here's the quote:

Chutes are long cylindrical tubes made of liquid protodermis held in place by a sheath of magnetic energy [this is the outer wall substance]. Magnetized protodermis [the other substance; protowater] flows through the chutes at high speed, carrying with it Matoran and cargo...

Unfortunately it's still not as clear as how I word it, since both types are called protodermis. Based on further wording and quotes from Greg about both chutes and Force Spheres, it appears that the outer substance is a combination of magnetized protowater and actual infused magnetic energy. This is the "sheath" material, that can break off and form a spherical shape of a Force Sphere from time to time. The water on the inside by contrast is not infused with magnetic energy, and on page 63 this is made clear by this statement:

[sometimes] the magnetic energy sheath weakens and the liquid protodermis leaks out.

The entry on page 15 of the Encyclopedia is helpful too:

Chutes were long cylindrical tubes made of liquid protodermis held in place by a sheath of magnetic energy. The protodermis flowed through the chutes at a high rate of speed... Passengers were required to hold their breath while riding in a chute... Chutes could be boarded at a chute station or by "chute jumping," leaping onto a chute during the brief moments when the magnetic energy wavered and the outer layer could be penetrated.

None of this explains how it could crystallize and shatter in 2005, but I theorize that a total chute failure could involve a power surge of magnetism that might actually alter the outer substance to non-protowater. But really I don't think Greg ever confirmed that that particular liquid protodermis is protowater itself; it might already be some other type of liquid proto. But he did confirm the stuff inside is protowater.

I always thought it was magnetism...

It is, but magnetism alone would not be enough. It's magnetism indirectly pulling the magnetized protowater along. Thus even nonmagnetic cargo could be transported.

To me, it seemed like both the movie and the set animation of Matau depicted the chutes as having a water-like outer shell but a less dense fluid/air channel inside.

Almost correct except the liquid protowater inside is not at all air. I don't know if density is the difference over solidity under magnetic force, but same basic idea.

So you have to hold your breath the duration of your travel? Seems impractical...

For long-trip passengers it is (and this is why the whole Visorak underwater-chute-travel idea always struck me as odd, unless they're actually amphibious or carried "air bladders" or something). But for cargo it's more practical, and cargo was the most common thing used here. You could hop out at chute stations to catch your breath, or take various other vehicles to get to your destination instead of the chutes. Edited June 13, 2012 by bonesiii

[Dralcax]

Wait... If it's full of water, how was Nokama able to yell "Waah! Hang on!" in LoMN when the chute reversed?

[bonesiii]

Wait... If it's full of water, how was Nokama able to yell "Waah! Hang on!" in LoMN when the chute reversed?

See my above posts about that. Short answer, that part was confirmed non-canon by Greg, at least in terms of how it looked and sounded. She could do that but it would look bubbly, etc. like if a human did that underwater.

[Dralcax]

Wait... If it's full of water, how was Nokama able to yell "Waah! Hang on!" in LoMN when the chute reversed?

See my above posts about that. Short answer, that part was confirmed non-canon by Greg, at least in terms of how it looked and sounded. She could do that but it would look bubbly, etc. like if a human did that underwater.

Oh. Right. That's what I get for not reading all the posts in the topic.

[Flipz]

So you have to hold your breath the duration of your travel? Seems impractical...

For long-trip passengers it is (and this is why the whole Visorak underwater-chute-travel idea always struck me as odd, unless they're actually amphibious or carried "air bladders" or something). But for cargo it's more practical, and cargo was the most common thing used here. You could hop out at chute stations to catch your breath, or take various other vehicles to get to your destination instead of the chutes.

Couldn't it also have been possible for the Visorak to have traveled in large, hollow shipping containers? (Thus providing them with some air, if still a limited supply.)Also, just wondering, could a Toa of Magnetism potentially control the outer walls of a chute with their power? (I.E. to intentionally create a Force Sphere, or to weaken the outer wall of a chute so as to flood an area, or potentially even to defuse a Force Sphere safely?)

[The Iron Toa]

Those ideas sound feasible to me.

[bonesiii]

So you have to hold your breath the duration of your travel? Seems impractical...

For long-trip passengers it is (and this is why the whole Visorak underwater-chute-travel idea always struck me as odd, unless they're actually amphibious or carried "air bladders" or something). But for cargo it's more practical, and cargo was the most common thing used here. You could hop out at chute stations to catch your breath, or take various other vehicles to get to your destination instead of the chutes.

Couldn't it also have been possible for the Visorak to have traveled in large, hollow shipping containers? (Thus providing them with some air, if still a limited supply.)Also, just wondering, could a Toa of Magnetism potentially control the outer walls of a chute with their power? (I.E. to intentionally create a Force Sphere, or to weaken the outer wall of a chute so as to flood an area, or potentially even to defuse a Force Sphere safely?)

1) Sure. That'd be a much better "or something" than what I was thinking, heh.2) Absolutely yes. I dunno about the safely part, maybe if they had studied how the normal machines work, but probably yes, as they can sense their elements (Toa can).

[fishers64]

Couldn't it also have been possible for the Visorak to have traveled in large, hollow shipping containers? (Thus providing them with some air, if still a limited supply.)

I suspect ruthless Roodaka probably wouldn't have cared and kicked any stragglers into the chute. She probably wouldn't have bothered to march onto Xia and demand shipping containers, and if she had, she probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble of kicking them into the sea where the Toa Hordika couldn't find them.

[Nuparu1995]

Nah, just straight liquid Protodermis. I imagine the same stuff that filled the Silver Sea. As for holding their breath, it depends on how fast the chutes are (they seemed pretty fast in the movies), and Matoran may just be able to hold their breath longer than human beings can.

[Toatapio Nuva]

Chutes are not filled with protodermis. The outer shells are magnetized protodermis, but inside there is air.

[bonesiii]

fishers, I didn't understand what your post was referring to... Are you saying you don't think Visorak came to Metru Nui in shipping containers? I thought it was a plausible idea, and Roodaka wouldn't want her whole army to drown before arriving... (Also Sidorak was in charge at the time.)

I imagine the same stuff that filled the Silver Sea.

Yes; that is protowater. Except this kind was magnetized.

Chutes are not filled with protodermis. The outer shells are magnetized protodermis, but inside there is air.

Sorry, but no. See my posts above, especially the Encyclopedia quote. There's no air in there (other than the occasional bubble). Edited June 20, 2012 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

fishers, I didn't understand what your post was referring to... Are you saying you don't think Visorak came to Metru Nui in shipping containers? I thought it was a plausible idea, and Roodaka wouldn't want her whole army to drown before arriving... (Also Sidorak was in charge at the time.)

Yes, I don't think the shipping containers idea would have been used to get the Visorak to Metru Nui. For one thing, it seems out of character IMO for Roodaka and Sidorak to care about who arrived and who didn't; any who didn't survive would be written off as weak. Also, the army would have traveled overland to the chute entry point, which would have been at the edge of the sea near the Great Barrier (correct me if I'm wrong) which wouldn't have been a long enough distance to kill the entire army off (between there and Metru Nui). Further, if there were Visorak shipping containers lying about, wouldn't the Toa Hordika have ran into them at some point? Would Roodaka, with Metru Nui conquest a fait accompli, even bother kicking them into the sea? Would the Visorak, when they left Metru Nui later, have the inteligence to board shipping containers for the return trip out? Probably not...And then, of course, there is the small issue of getting the transport containers (threating Xians?) getting said containers to the chutes (do Roodaka and Sidorak really want to carry/strap onto their army shipping containers? Too much work for too little gain. Possible, but not likely.

[bonesiii]

But the distance from any chute entries is at least vastly farther than the short between-station distances in the city. What I'm saying is it's hard for me to believe that without some air supply, the entire army should drown halfway there. If even a small percentage of them survived it's strategically foolish to take such a big risk. Especially since once you're in, you can't go back.The distance might be double the Metru to Great Barrier distance too if the entrances are, say, at Xia, rather than just behind the Great Barrier.And yes, it's a big city, they could have easily stuffed them in one of the many skyscrapers the Toa didn't happen to go in. Metru Nui has plenty of shipping containers of its own as shown in the LoMN chute sequence, so the Hordika would have no special reason to want any the Visorak came in; I don't see why they would matter once they had arrived.Well, how do the Visorak normally travel from island to island? Are there chutes between all the islands? Perhaps containers with air, in chutes, is the normal method of transporting the Visorak army. Admittedly the order to close the Metru Nui gates, if they knew of them and if that actually did happen and stay that way in 2005 (I forget what was figured out in previous discussions on that lol) would be a problem, and boats could be used normally. But yeah...I'm not saying it had to be shipping containers per se -- admittedly on second thought, it would be difficult to make sure they were airtight unless they were the type Metru Nui already has. But something, yanno? Unless Visorak don't need to breathe as often as normal beings... Also, what about Sidorak and Roodaka themselves? I'd think they'd ensure the safest, most-air-supplied method for themselves, at least.Another consideration is that they were called there by a master planner; Makuta. He may have planned ahead for this sort of thing as a contingency, especially since he's the one that ordered the gates closed.Edit: BS01 quote:

Teridax then sent most of the remaining Toa Mangai on various missions from which they never returned, such as sending two Toa to Xia for experimentation, and two others, along with the Chronicler Kodan, to seal off the sea gates. Eliminator ambushed and killed the latter group, including Kodan.

So, yeah, the gates apparently were not closed, and Dumekuta hired Eliminator to make sure, although it could have been afterward. But if the gates are open, Makuta could have telepathically communicated that and had the Visorak come by boat, if boat is their normal method. So maybe evidence that air-tank-of-some-kind-in-chutes is a method they have used before. I dunno... it's confusing... Edited June 20, 2012 by bonesiii

[darkslizer]

I think there is probably some water-hybrid material in the chutes. I mean, assuming that Nokama could have used her water powers to fix the reversed flow of the chutes, she probably would have, considering she is one of the smartest.Honestly, If it was possible, it would have happened, or it could possibly just be that Greg Farshtey just didn't think that elemental powers should solve so much of their problems.

[bonesiii]

I think there is probably some water-hybrid material in the chutes. I mean, assuming that Nokama could have used her water powers to fix the reversed flow of the chutes, she probably would have, considering she is one of the smartest.Honestly, If it was possible, it would have happened, or it could possibly just be that Greg Farshtey just didn't think that elemental powers should solve so much of their problems.

Again, we know it's normal protowater, other than being magnetized; Greg confirmed it.As for Nokama in the chutes, I thought of that too (and was waiting for someone to bring it up ). There's just too much existing water with far too much pressure to reverse an island-wide system, she only has a limited amount of elemental energy and the Metru had recently used their reserves in fighting Morby (I might be wrong on the timing of this point, it's been a while...). Also, don't forget that disruptions to the flow can cause deadly Force Spheres to rip off; that was the whole reason Kongu tried to refuse to reverse the flow in the first place. Nokama only controls water, not magnetism, so she couldn't necessarily prevent that.Also, there was an alternative; leave the chute, that would not waste her elemental energy, although I think it's implied she did use it a few times including to direct herself to the ring and direct the other Toa to her. Since that inexpensive option was available, why use a vastly more expensive option even if you could? Besides, they got into the chutes to make it easier to get where they were going; that would be doing the opposite.If leaving the chute was impossible for some reason then I could see your point. But just because something is possible alone does not mean it would happen. It depends on whether the people who had that power would want to use an easier or safer option. Edited June 20, 2012 by bonesiii

[fishers64]

But the distance from any chute entries is at least vastly farther than the short between-station distances in the city. What I'm saying is it's hard for me to believe that without some air supply, the entire army should drown halfway there. If even a small percentage of them survived it's strategically foolish to take such a big risk. Especially since once you're in, you can't go back.The distance might be double the Metru to Great Barrier distance too if the entrances are, say, at Xia, rather than just behind the Great Barrier.And yes, it's a big city, they could have easily stuffed them in one of the many skyscrapers the Toa didn't happen to go in. Metru Nui has plenty of shipping containers of its own as shown in the LoMN chute sequence, so the Hordika would have no special reason to want any the Visorak came in; I don't see why they would matter once they had arrived.Well, how do the Visorak normally travel from island to island? Are there chutes between all the islands? Perhaps containers with air, in chutes, is the normal method of transporting the Visorak army. Admittedly the order to close the Metru Nui gates, if they knew of them and if that actually did happen and stay that way in 2005 (I forget what was figured out in previous discussions on that lol) would be a problem, and boats could be used normally. But yeah...I'm not saying it had to be shipping containers per se -- admittedly on second thought, it would be difficult to make sure they were airtight unless they were the type Metru Nui already has. But something, yanno? Unless Visorak don't need to breathe as often as normal beings... Also, what about Sidorak and Roodaka themselves? I'd think they'd ensure the safest, most-air-supplied method for themselves, at least.Another consideration is that they were called there by a master planner; Makuta. He may have planned ahead for this sort of thing as a contingency, especially since he's the one that ordered the gates closed.Edit: BS01 quote:

Teridax then sent most of the remaining Toa Mangai on various missions from which they never returned, such as sending two Toa to Xia for experimentation, and two others, along with the Chronicler Kodan, to seal off the sea gates. Eliminator ambushed and killed the latter group, including Kodan.

So, yeah, the gates apparently were not closed, and Dumekuta hired Eliminator to make sure, although it could have been afterward. But if the gates are open, Makuta could have telepathically communicated that and had the Visorak come by boat, if boat is their normal method. So maybe evidence that air-tank-of-some-kind-in-chutes is a method they have used before. I dunno... it's confusing...

Hmm...To answer the normal-method-of-transport question, this came to mind...

“They do,” said Nuparu, pointing toward the ocean. It had become a sea of Boggarak, skating across the water’s surface, heading for the island. Behind them, floating on pieces of flotsam and jetsam of all types, were thousands more Visorak. All of them were coming right for Artidax.

I don't know - they could have been desperate or something there. Do Visorak row boats? Really, they're spiders, bones. I personally doubt Roodaka and Sidorak would have volunteered to row. And a big ship probably wouldn't have fit through those gates even if they were open.I agree that Roodaka would have done an air-supplied method for herself and Sidorak, but no source I remember said they must have came through the chutes. Roodaka had a mutated Nui-Kopen, I think, which she could have used to get to Metru Nui in the first place, seeing as it covered the distance from Metru Nui to the Great Barrier later (Bionicle Adventures #8) so she could cut a piece of Makuta's cage.As for the rest of it, okay, fine. But the type of containers used on Metru Nui is kind of irrelevant, seeing as they are going to Metru Nui. I was thinking they would have to take containers from Xia across the water and overland to the edge of the Great Barrier sea (maybe not...). Watertight probably wouldn't be a problem - the Xians have to take their machines or whatever across the water to get it to their trading partners - it makes sense that they would have watertight containers. Airtight might be a stretch, although I suspect it might not be too much of one...but now I'm arguing against my own theory.And Makuta could have stuck the canisters there beforehand...not sure about that...

[Toatapio Nuva]

I read the encyclopedia quote. It makes no sense whatsoever, but it seems that the chutes are filled with protodermis story-wise. Only this is not visible in any form of media whatsoever. Chutes have always been depicted as different, in the movie, the comics... I wonder why. Maybe it would've been silly for Greg to write: "Then they took a deep breath and hopped into the chute..."Oh well, you always have head-canon that makes more sense.Still, how did the Toa Metru survive in the chutes? They were in there for a long time. They didn't even seem stressed from the lack of air. And if the chutes are filled with water, Le-Matoran and Po-Matoran probably avoid them as much as possible. Doesn't seem practical. Besides, it was Le-Matoran who invented chutes.

[bonesiii]

Well, Toatapio, all of that is what the other posts in this topic have been discussing. I think points I raised in my earlier posts address most of that. Also, the movie does clearly show liquid filling the chutes, and I can't think of any other media that would contradict that. Promo animations, etc. all show it filled with liquid. The one exception is the hollow shattered outer walls in 2005 after the system was decimated by the Great Cataclysm, but clearly the filling protowater would have leaked out of those broken tubes long ago.But if you're thinking of some media that showed them not appearing filled, can you provide an image of it? I can't think of any off the top of my head. I know the movies show it because I just watched a clip on that site we can't mention a few days ago.Anyways, some humans can hold their breaths for about as long as the Metru were depicted, and they may have stopped at stations to catch their breaths and the movie simply didn't include those scenes. Movies rarely show everything that is meant to have happened as it would take too long, be boring, etc. The only real problem is how it looked and sounded when they briefly exclaimed in surprise when the flow reversed, but notice they got out very quickly after that, and anyways that's a matter of animation inaccuracy, as Greg confirmed.And by the way, the whole point of the flow being reversed also confirms it was liquid. You can't reverse a nonexistent flow. And as I pointed out above, if it was just the magnetism in air pulling things along, nonmagnetic materials would be unaffected, plus it could cause all kinds of unwanted side effects like Matoran sticking to the walls lol. Having the magnetism move protowater which then in turn moves things in it solves all of this.As for Le-Matoran inventing it, it's a great point, and in hindsight Ga would make more sense, but the Le were basically the inventors of transport methods while the Ga were usually studying things and purifying protodermis. That decision would make Ga impractical as the chute inventors. They could have made a different decision, but they didn't. Also I think of it as Le because the chutes are often high up in the air, sort of like how on Mata Nui the Le-Matoran could run through the treetops, which really is more of a Plants elemental association, but it counts as air related because they're up higher in the air than groundwalking.Edit: to fishers, good points all, especially the Nui-Kopen, I forgot 'bout that.

Edited June 21, 2012 by bonesiii

[Toatapio Nuva]

I watched the movie and noticed that the Metru seem to be in water. So you were right.Look at any chutes in any of the comics and you'll see there's no water inside them. But I guess that's non-canon then.Still, I think the system seems very inpractical. Now I understand why some Matoran like to travel in Ussal carts rather than chutes.

[bonesiii]

Still, I think the system seems very inpractical. Now I understand why some Matoran like to travel in Ussal carts rather than chutes.

Exactly; there's a variety of methods of travel. Including airships too.

Look at any chutes in any of the comics and you'll see there's no water inside them. But I guess that's non-canon then.

I don't think it's fair to say there's no water inside them. Water is difficult to illustrate in a black-line-border drawing method as is used in the comics (and I often use myself). The traditional way to do it is to show waves on a surface, but there are no waves inside a perfect tube of water. Doing blackline bubbles would also not look very good.The scenes I see on a quick survey of some comic images seem to consistently show a trail of lines behind anybody in there, which could be interpreted as a standard speed indicator in cartoon physics, or as a liquid motion trail. Showing liquid with CGI is far easier to visually understand.One scene that could be interpreted as water-filled is the page with Nokama asking Vhisola about the Force Sphere, here. Instead of the overlapping chutes looking transparent as you'd expect if they were filled with air, they appear opaque, not showing the crisscrossing ones behind them through them, which is closer to how water would look. On the next page (after some ads), you can see all kinds of rippley black lines surrounding him besides the standard speed trailers, indicating that yes, he is in water. There also appears to be floating debris amidst the water. On the last panel, even though he's trying to summon an airstorm, Matau thinks, "can't breathe". Clearly, he has been holding his breath, and the air he's making is not enough yet.A few pages later I admit the Morby shattering two chutes is confusing; it looks just like the 2005 shattered chutes except pieces are still falling, with no water leaking out. You could still explain that as the water fell out already, as water would, and the pieces shown there are stragglers. It may also have been an already disabled chute; several regions were "ghost towns" as it were, or the water may have been diverted since the Morby was known to be in the area.In this comic, the Vahki shattering a chute also looks like no water, yes. But the fiery effect as it shatters might be interpreted as vaporizing the water. Not sure what their power was off the top of my head to be able to even do that though. A few moments later the Vahki flies out, again no water shown. The chute looks level, but might not be per se; the water might have been stopped by chute managers at that point, and gravitationally flow the other way. Probably the weakest explanation; another might simply be that the comic artist forgot the chute was supposed to have water, even though he played a role in depicting it a few comics ago lol.So yeah, I can see why you'd think the comic didn't show water, but I think it's clear it does, especially Matau's line about not being able to breathe. Clearly Greg knew it had water at the time since he wrote that line. Whether that was made clear to the artist is unclear though.

[Toatapio Nuva]

Quote from BIONICLE Adventures #2: Trial by Fire:"Matau pushed his power to their limit, forcing the air around him to swirl violently. Suddenly, he was in the center of a whirlwind which sucked the breath from his lungs."Pretty trivial, yeah, but it says nothing about water or drowning anywhere. That's why I never knew chutes had water in them. I dismissed the watery chutes of Legends of Metru Nui as a non-canon artistic license thingy. Really, besides the movie (I'm too tired to analyze the comics), the only reference to there being water in chutes is in the encyclopedia. But I must admit that those things make it canon.In my head though, I still refuse to accept this.

[bonesiii]

What is the context of that quote? I don't have time to check, but in the comic I just mentioned, Matau was making new air inside a Force Sphere and trying to make a whirlwind. Mightn't that be where the air came from? Also, Greg wrote both Trial by Fire and the Encyclopedia, as well as that comic strip, and of course the answers he gave to people on here confirming it's water-filled, so I doubt it was meant to imply otherwise. BS01 appears to confirm you're talking about the Force Sphere incident, so until I can see the full context, that would be my theory.