The Dark Knight Rises

[Takatu]

Just saw the film today. There's one bit I didn't get - back in the plane, Bane stick's a needle in that guy's arm and takes some blood. What was that for?

IIRC, it was Dr. Pavel's blood he was pumping into the corpse, so when the crash was found, the body itself would must likely be mangled beyond recognition, but the DNA in the blood would confirm it. Thus, faking his death (they mentioned at one point that Pavel was confirmed dead).I could be missing some details, but that's how I understood it on my second viewing.

Would they not also find the other guy's DNA too, though?

I thought about that too, but given how far the plane fell, I don't think it's too far fetched that blood from most if not all of the bodies on it would bleed out and mix together. And yeah, Wayne found out about Bane's mask pumping painkillers into him while he was in the prison, which is why he beat on it and broke it when they fought again.

[Trevsky]

Ah, yes. The Dark Knight Rises. A cinematic juggernaut so freakishly large that it dragged it me to the theater on virtue of the fact that I actually really wanted to see it, not just because my friends were watching it: a sparkling gem that stood out in a stagnant pool of trivial, deplorable releases that have become the face of the mainstream Blockbuster. These days, every time I watch a major motion picture that occasionally demonstrates that Hollywood is capable of crafting material that isn't mindless schlock (or at the bare minium, mindless schlock that passes for legitimate entertainment e.g. The Avengers, I'm not that much of a cultural elitist) I feel rather comforted, as if the movie itself is a reassuring pat on the back to make me temporarily forget our decrepit cultural state. It's nice to have the medium of cinema partake in the reinforcement of the ever weakening barricade in my mind against the flooding idea that America has it's feet entrenched in a cesspool of rotting insipid, vapidness that is in danger of drowning what few silvers of artistic beauty, exigency, and integrity that have yet to be exploited and maligned by the singularity that exists as the modern entertainment complex.However, we are delving too far into my inner nerd psyche, and that is a truly scary place indeed. I must bring myself back onto track, or else my presence in this topic will be nothing more than somewhat over exaggerated ramblings. I saw Rises a week past, and the reason why it continues to stake a decent plot of ground in the evolving countryside that strings together my collective thoughts for one reason. It has nothing to do with the plot points, (which despite functioning excellently as a cohesive narrative, suffers from a minor myriad of problems that one could nitpick to no end) or the varied performances, which are largely phenomenal (Am I the only one who thought that Michael Caine completely stole the show?) or even the brilliant score. (nothing short of fantastic) No, it's themes and larger purpose which perpetually force their way into my reflections, and raise me to the following conclusion.The Dark Knight Rises, is by no means a perfect film. In fact, in my opinion it somewhat pales in comparison to its predecessor . It is, as the successful conclusion to Nolan's trilogy, an important film, one that merits discussion on the place of Blockbuster cinema and the Superhero genre in our society.

Rises ​is a continuation of The Dark Knight in terms of plot. However, it provides closure and completion of themes and motifs that were introduced in Batman Begin. In a manner that I can only describe as absolutely brilliant, Nolan's trilogy is cemented the biggest and most relevant trilogy in modern popular culture since The Lord of The Rings. I'm hesitant to even call this a Batman movie, as the cape and cowl as donned by a man who punches bad guys in the face repeatedly receive only a marginal amount of screen time. This is a Bruce Wayne movie, and it is wonderful because of that. For the first time ever, Wayne is finally a fully relatable character. Although acknowledged by the comics and animated series,' I think this movie touches on the idea that Wayne is actually a human being more completely than any other piece of Batman fiction I have seen. No longer is Batman an unreachable avatar of vengeance and justice, but a deeply flawed individual who needs to learn how to live again. Not only does add a fresh side to a character who has fascinated the public for over 70 years, it creates the most interesting character arc of any Batman movie, period. The beginning and end of the film, the first thing the writing team worked on in the creation of the story, are extremely personal. We first see a Wayne already broken by the black hole of raw emotional dysfunction that is required to become The Batman, the disappearance of his alter-ego bringing about a similar absence of will to simply exist in a state of happiness. This is completed when Bane breaks his back, bringing Wayne in a position where he must rise. This is how Rises connects so beautifully to Begins, which demonstrated the complex that created Batman. That movie is all about the fall and rise. Batman was created by the metaphorical and literal descent into horror and evil, and the subsequent rise to hope and justice. Not only that, Begins as well as Dark Knight establishes that it is not the man behind the mask who matters for the safety, but the symbol, which Rises resolves by having Blake take up the mantle. While Dark Knight focuses on the contrast between order and chaos, and of the ramifications that are required to preserve hope and purity in the face of that chaos and insanity, Rises is the completion of this rendition of Batman. When Wayne climbs out of the prison and recalls the well, the arc of the scared young boy who became Batman and the arc of the mentally and physically broken Batman are tied together in a simple visual parallel that is nothing short of brilliance. When Wayne (presumably) marries Selina Kyle and hangs up the mantle of the Bat, both arcs are completed.One could compare and contrast the three films to no end, but the point remains. Rises and in turn the entire trilogy serve to remind us that superheroes can stand for something greater in our culture then punching bad guys in the flashiest way possible. That is something truly brilliant.

[Linsanity]

I saw it last Friday, and I think it was the best movie in the trilogy. I liked Bane slightly better than the Joker, and Hathaway was amazing as Catwoman. Anyway, I have some quick questions:1. What does Catwoman mean when she says, "He should be so lucky," right after Fox says, "Mr. Wayne, I like your new girlfriend?'

2. Wouldn't there be a tsunami after the bomb exploded over the ocean?

3. Who's the girl that always hangs out with Selina Kyle? I'm pretty sure she was portrayed by Juno Temple.

Edited July 31, 2012 by King James

[Argentum]

Ah, yes. The Dark Knight Rises. A cinematic juggernaut so freakishly large that it dragged it me to the theater on virtue of the fact that I actually really wanted to see it, not just because my friends were watching it: a sparkling gem that stood out in a stagnant pool of trivial, deplorable releases that have become the face of the mainstream Blockbuster. These days, every time I watch a major motion picture that occasionally demonstrates that Hollywood is capable of crafting material that isn't mindless schlock (or at the bare minium, mindless schlock that passes for legitimate entertainment e.g. The Avengers, I'm not that much of a cultural elitist) I feel rather comforted, as if the movie itself is a reassuring pat on the back to make me temporarily forget our decrepit cultural state. It's nice to have the medium of cinema partake in the reinforcement of the ever weakening barricade in my mind against the flooding idea that America has it's feet entrenched in a cesspool of rotting insipid, vapidness that is in danger of drowning what few silvers of artistic beauty, exigency, and integrity that have yet to be exploited and maligned by the singularity that exists as the modern entertainment complex.However, we are delving too far into my inner nerd psyche, and that is a truly scary place indeed. I must bring myself back onto track, or else my presence in this topic will be nothing more than somewhat over exaggerated ramblings. I saw Rises a week past, and the reason why it continues to stake a decent plot of ground in the evolving countryside that strings together my collective thoughts for one reason. It has nothing to do with the plot points, (which despite functioning excellently as a cohesive narrative, suffers from a minor myriad of problems that one could nitpick to no end) or the varied performances, which are largely phenomenal (Am I the only one who thought that Michael Caine completely stole the show?) or even the brilliant score. (nothing short of fantastic) No, it's themes and larger purpose which perpetually force their way into my reflections, and raise me to the following conclusion.The Dark Knight Rises, is by no means a perfect film. In fact, in my opinion it somewhat pales in comparison to its predecessor . It is, as the successful conclusion to Nolan's trilogy, an important film, one that merits discussion on the place of Blockbuster cinema and the Superhero genre in our society.

Rises ​is a continuation of The Dark Knight in terms of plot. However, it provides closure and completion of themes and motifs that were introduced in Batman Begin. In a manner that I can only describe as absolutely brilliant, Nolan's trilogy is cemented the biggest and most relevant trilogy in modern popular culture since The Lord of The Rings. I'm hesitant to even call this a Batman movie, as the cape and cowl as donned by a man who punches bad guys in the face repeatedly receive only a marginal amount of screen time. This is a Bruce Wayne movie, and it is wonderful because of that. For the first time ever, Wayne is finally a fully relatable character. Although acknowledged by the comics and animated series,' I think this movie touches on the idea that Wayne is actually a human being more completely than any other piece of Batman fiction I have seen. No longer is Batman an unreachable avatar of vengeance and justice, but a deeply flawed individual who needs to learn how to live again. Not only does add a fresh side to a character who has fascinated the public for over 70 years, it creates the most interesting character arc of any Batman movie, period. The beginning and end of the film, the first thing the writing team worked on in the creation of the story, are extremely personal. We first see a Wayne already broken by the black hole of raw emotional dysfunction that is required to become The Batman, the disappearance of his alter-ego bringing about a similar absence of will to simply exist in a state of happiness. This is completed when Bane breaks his back, bringing Wayne in a position where he must rise. This is how Rises connects so beautifully to Begins, which demonstrated the complex that created Batman. That movie is all about the fall and rise. Batman was created by the metaphorical and literal descent into horror and evil, and the subsequent rise to hope and justice. Not only that, Begins as well as Dark Knight establishes that it is not the man behind the mask who matters for the safety, but the symbol, which Rises resolves by having Blake take up the mantle. While Dark Knight focuses on the contrast between order and chaos, and of the ramifications that are required to preserve hope and purity in the face of that chaos and insanity, Rises is the completion of this rendition of Batman. When Wayne climbs out of the prison and recalls the well, the arc of the scared young boy who became Batman and the arc of the mentally and physically broken Batman are tied together in a simple visual parallel that is nothing short of brilliance. When Wayne (presumably) marries Selina Kyle and hangs up the mantle of the Bat, both arcs are completed.One could compare and contrast the three films to no end, but the point remains. Rises and in turn the entire trilogy serve to remind us that superheroes can stand for something greater in our culture then punching bad guys in the flashiest way possible. That is something truly brilliant.

Did you eat a thesaurus or something?I saw the film yesterday, I definitely enjoyed it.

I fully understood Bane, whenever he said anything. It was a definite improvement from the preview. I wasn't sure when I first heard the voice, but it definitely grew on me by the end of the film.I knew it was going to be Talia. As soon as Bane was mentioned as Ra's child, I turned to my mate and said something along the lines of "rubbish", and it was.And I'm glad they involved a Robin without the whole creepy boy suit. It's the symbolism of Robin that counts, and with Blake doing Batman's work whilst he was gone, it really made me smile at the end.@KingJames ~ She means that he would be lucky if she was his girlfriend. Just a passing joke.

~Argentum~

Edited July 31, 2012 by ~Argentum~

[Laughing Man]

3. Who's the girl that always hangs out with Selina Kyle? I'm pretty sure she was portrayed by Juno Temple.

the character's name was Jen, although she was pretty much the movie version of Selina's friend/sidekick Holly Robinson from the comics.

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

No longer is Batman an unreachable avatar of vengeance and justice, but a deeply flawed individual who needs to learn how to live again

Another of the reasons I liked the film. It sets Batman up as something akin to a Frank Miller dream then reveals to us what a terrible idea that is

[HAZMAT]

1. What does Catwoman mean when she says, "He should be so lucky," right after Fox says, "Mr. Wayne, I like your new girlfriend?'

She means he would be lucky to have her as his girlfriend

[Zulu Yankee Kilo Echo]

2. Wouldn't there be a tsunami after the bomb exploded over the ocean?

There would probably be some sort of wave, but I don't think it would be big enough to do too much damage to Gotham. Then again, I'm not a nuclear physicist

[Promised Land]

2. Wouldn't there be a tsunami after the bomb exploded over the ocean?

Tsunamis are usually triggered by major disturbances under the surface of the ocean that displace large amounts of water very quickly. While a bomb that can wipe out Gotham City could have triggered one, it was probably too high up in the air when it detonated to do so and was also probably too far away to do any real damage even if it did, seeing as Gotham doesn't even seem to get hit by a shockwave when it goes off.

[Archer Vonn]

Ah, yes. The Dark Knight Rises. A cinematic juggernaut so freakishly large that it dragged it me to the theater on virtue of the fact that I actually really wanted to see it, not just because my friends were watching it: a sparkling gem that stood out in a stagnant pool of trivial, deplorable releases that have become the face of the mainstream Blockbuster. These days, every time I watch a major motion picture that occasionally demonstrates that Hollywood is capable of crafting material that isn't mindless schlock (or at the bare minium, mindless schlock that passes for legitimate entertainment e.g. The Avengers, I'm not that much of a cultural elitist) I feel rather comforted, as if the movie itself is a reassuring pat on the back to make me temporarily forget our decrepit cultural state. It's nice to have the medium of cinema partake in the reinforcement of the ever weakening barricade in my mind against the flooding idea that America has it's feet entrenched in a cesspool of rotting insipid, vapidness that is in danger of drowning what few silvers of artistic beauty, exigency, and integrity that have yet to be exploited and maligned by the singularity that exists as the modern entertainment complex.However, we are delving too far into my inner nerd psyche, and that is a truly scary place indeed. I must bring myself back onto track, or else my presence in this topic will be nothing more than somewhat over exaggerated ramblings. I saw Rises a week past, and the reason why it continues to stake a decent plot of ground in the evolving countryside that strings together my collective thoughts for one reason. It has nothing to do with the plot points, (which despite functioning excellently as a cohesive narrative, suffers from a minor myriad of problems that one could nitpick to no end) or the varied performances, which are largely phenomenal (Am I the only one who thought that Michael Caine completely stole the show?) or even the brilliant score. (nothing short of fantastic) No, it's themes and larger purpose which perpetually force their way into my reflections, and raise me to the following conclusion.The Dark Knight Rises, is by no means a perfect film. In fact, in my opinion it somewhat pales in comparison to its predecessor . It is, as the successful conclusion to Nolan's trilogy, an important film, one that merits discussion on the place of Blockbuster cinema and the Superhero genre in our society.

Rises ​is a continuation of The Dark Knight in terms of plot. However, it provides closure and completion of themes and motifs that were introduced in Batman Begin. In a manner that I can only describe as absolutely brilliant, Nolan's trilogy is cemented the biggest and most relevant trilogy in modern popular culture since The Lord of The Rings. I'm hesitant to even call this a Batman movie, as the cape and cowl as donned by a man who punches bad guys in the face repeatedly receive only a marginal amount of screen time. This is a Bruce Wayne movie, and it is wonderful because of that. For the first time ever, Wayne is finally a fully relatable character. Although acknowledged by the comics and animated series,' I think this movie touches on the idea that Wayne is actually a human being more completely than any other piece of Batman fiction I have seen. No longer is Batman an unreachable avatar of vengeance and justice, but a deeply flawed individual who needs to learn how to live again. Not only does add a fresh side to a character who has fascinated the public for over 70 years, it creates the most interesting character arc of any Batman movie, period. The beginning and end of the film, the first thing the writing team worked on in the creation of the story, are extremely personal. We first see a Wayne already broken by the black hole of raw emotional dysfunction that is required to become The Batman, the disappearance of his alter-ego bringing about a similar absence of will to simply exist in a state of happiness. This is completed when Bane breaks his back, bringing Wayne in a position where he must rise. This is how Rises connects so beautifully to Begins, which demonstrated the complex that created Batman. That movie is all about the fall and rise. Batman was created by the metaphorical and literal descent into horror and evil, and the subsequent rise to hope and justice. Not only that, Begins as well as Dark Knight establishes that it is not the man behind the mask who matters for the safety, but the symbol, which Rises resolves by having Blake take up the mantle. While Dark Knight focuses on the contrast between order and chaos, and of the ramifications that are required to preserve hope and purity in the face of that chaos and insanity, Rises is the completion of this rendition of Batman. When Wayne climbs out of the prison and recalls the well, the arc of the scared young boy who became Batman and the arc of the mentally and physically broken Batman are tied together in a simple visual parallel that is nothing short of brilliance. When Wayne (presumably) marries Selina Kyle and hangs up the mantle of the Bat, both arcs are completed.One could compare and contrast the three films to no end, but the point remains. Rises and in turn the entire trilogy serve to remind us that superheroes can stand for something greater in our culture then punching bad guys in the flashiest way possible. That is something truly brilliant.

This post made me donate to charity@James: 'He should be so lucky' is a common saying, go be cultured

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[Linsanity]

Thanks guys. All of you answered my questions pretty well, and now I understand the movie much better. @Tilius: Yeah, I actually liked his final voice. His accent was awesome. I also like how he displayed his personality through expressions in his eyes.

Edited August 3, 2012 by King James

[Brickeens]

Yeah, I really liked Bane's voice. I'm not sure what about it makes me like it so much, but it's great.

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[Jean Valjean]

Here's the thing: I'm not comparing him to the Joker. I mean, the Joker was the perfect personification of chaotic evil, but beyond that I have nothing left to comment on. I actually liked Batman Begins more, and Ra's al-Ghul is still my favorite villain. But ultimately, I don't compare Bane to either of them, because I choose to see the films independently.Merida

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[Takatu]

Agreed, the comparisons to the Joker shouldn't be made, they completely different villains. I actually thought Bane was better, Joker was most definitely memorable and entertaining, but Bane was this perfect balance of cold brutality and charisma. He was absolutely terrifying, not just when he's shooting people or breaking necks without a blink, but the large-scale stuff he does in the second half or so of the movie was pretty scary. Nice to see a villain that doesn't fall into the blatant traps comic book/Bond villains constantly fall for.I also adored what they did with his voice, Tom Hardy is a legend. And given he really only had his eyes and body language to work with in showing emotion and whatnot the whole movie, he was excellent. I loved that cocky walk he did throughout.

[Archer Vonn]

Nah Joker was better

Bane was just Talia's thug

[Takatu]

I've been seeing people say that a lot around the internet, but I didn't get that vibe at all. They seemed to be equal teammates to me. Heck, the one time Talia told him to do something directly he disobeyed (or tried to, before Catwoman blasted him). I just never saw her as the commander over Bane, just as the covert part of the overall plan while Bane did the more outward villainy.

[Axilus Prime]

I've been seeing people say that a lot around the internet, but I didn't get that vibe at all. They seemed to be equal teammates to me. Heck, the one time Talia told him to do something directly he disobeyed (or tried to, before Catwoman blasted him). I just never saw her as the commander over Bane, just as the covert part of the overall plan while Bane did the more outward villainy.

This.

[Archer Vonn]

If Bane wasn't just Talia's thug then he had no motivation and it's bad writing

Edited August 5, 2012 by ~JC~

[Axilus Prime]

If Bane wasn't just Talia's thug then he had no motivation and it's bad writing

Bane hated Gotham just as much as the rest of the League, and he believed in the League. When he was excommunicated, it was because Ra's al Ghul didn't want him associated with Talia. He cared about Talia, and because his mission of protecting her was fulfilled, he didn't hold a grudge against the League or its mission. Then they met again and became equal partners, both motivated, and it led into the flawless plot that is The Dark Knight Rises.

[Archer Vonn]

UGH I really don't need to put on my debate pants but I will anyway

Very first one is why did Bane protect Talia in the first place, looking out for a little kid, sure I guess that's really the only logical one. Someone who has that much goodness in their heart to risk their necks for a kid they don't know doesn't seem likely to want to later become a terrorist but let's say he got angsty later, okRa's banished him because he wanted Talia away from him, right, your words. If Bane loves the kid enough to risk his neck for her, he'd probably get P.O. at Ra's for keeping them apart.Getting mad at Ra's means he logically wouldn't want to go along with Ra's plan to destroy a city that never did anything to him, meaning that the only reason he would want to blow up the city is because Talia wanted him tooTL;DR he's Talia's thugBUT ok fine let's give him one more chance and say that he was very understanding towards Ra's reasons. Being understanding is not really a very villainous trait.

Edited August 5, 2012 by ~JC~

[Flex Lord Splash]

If Bane wasn't just Talia's thug then he had no motivation and it's bad writing

His motivation was that he was in LOVE with Talia. Did you not see the single tear escape his eyes when she was talking about that and when she said goodbye to him? That and he believed in the cause of the League of Shadows.

[Archer Vonn]

eww that's creepy he's like twenty years older than her

[Axilus Prime]

eww that's creepy he's like twenty years older than her

I know couples like that, trust me. It would also explain why Ra's wanted him away from her. XDThe fact is, Bane is not a pure evil villain like Joker, but he has the stuff to act and work perfectly like one. Unlike Joker, who cares for no one, Bane cares for only specific people, and the rest can go die in the inferno for all he cares.

[Archer Vonn]

That's exactly why I don't think he's as good a villain as the Joker- the Joker will, and did, risk everything to win, even his own life. Bane wouldn't.Don't get me wrong I'm just arguing Bane because I loved the Joker so much I thought he was a great character.

[Flex Lord Splash]

I can't compare the Joker and Bane. The Joker was one of the best acting jobs I've ever witnessed, and I can watch him again and again. Bane was still a very good villain though. Other than Raas Bane has been the only villain who can physically go toe to toe with Batman, in fact he was stronger then Batman, and a bit better at fighting. I thought Tom Hardy did an excellent job, and overall I loved Dark Knight Rises.

[Axilus Prime]

That's exactly why I don't think he's as good a villain as the Joker- the Joker will, and did, risk everything to win, even his own life. Bane wouldn't.Don't get me wrong I'm just arguing Bane because I loved the Joker so much I thought he was a great character.

True. Bane was a madman, but he had a cap on it. Like the Lizard from the Amazing Spider-Man, or Megatron from Transformers. (More like Megatron, since Bane is far more cruel and aggressive than the Lizard.)The Joker, on the other hand, has no cap, no motivation(something you were complaining about Bane having not enough of), no anything. He just thinks explosions and pain are that friggin' hilarious. XDThat's why I prefer Bane, actually.

[Archer Vonn]

Joker had plenty motivation- he wanted to watch the world burn. Pay attention.Also, [more importantly] he wanted to beat Batman. Which he did.You're downplaying the Joker go watch Dark Knight again

Edited August 5, 2012 by ~JC~

[Takatu]

Joker is plenty entertaining in his own way, I loved him. I just don't think he can be compared to Bane because they're so different. Joker was crazy and funny in a dark way, whereas Bane is just brutal and coldly intelligent. I think it's just personal taste, I prefer a villain like Bane simply because he's scarier. And again, he didn't fall into any of those typical traps that a lot of villains put themselves in:"He's dead.""Then show me his body.""Don't kill him, I want him to feel the fire and know he failed." *leaves*"...You know I have to kill you, of course. You'll just have to imagine the fire."And of course, instead of locking the one person who can stop his doomsday device away in a cell and believing there's just no possible way he could escape, he simply kills the guy on a football field. It's that general genre savvy-ness that made me like him as a villain.

[Axilus Prime]

Watching the world burn. Exactly what I said, but in Alfred's words. He thought it was fun. He had no real goal, he was just experimenting, messing around, tormenting people (And Batman.) for fun. To watch the world burn.

[Archer Vonn]

He wanted to BEAT BATMAN. That is a very tangible goal and he accomplished it.Joker didn't leave any ends loose either. Again just go watch Dark Knight. The Joker was scarier because he got to people. He didn't need to be big like Bane did, he was just smarter than anybody else and he proved how that could beat anything.

[Axilus Prime]

True. He did beat Batman.But then, you could say Bane's motivation was to watch Gotham burn. Why Gotham? It was corrupt enough to irk him and he couldn't see his own evil.

[Takatu]

Bane wasn't scary because he was big, at least no more than other bulky villains. He was scary, to me at least, because of how casually he murdered people and blew stuff up while making sure he didn't fall for the same weaknesses that many other villains do. It was his intelligence and complete indifference to human life that made him scary.Both bad guys are scary, just in different ways. Joker is the "crazy guy who'll mess with your head then knife you while giggling uncontrollably" scary, while Bane was the "guy who'll nuke a heavily populated city and not give it a second thought while very seriously claiming to be a freedom fighter" scary. Just depends on what gets to you more, personally, and while Joker was plenty terrifying, Bane just had a more lasting effect with me in that regard.

[Archer Vonn]

Bane has an effect on you more than Joker because you have probably seen TDKR more recently than TDKAlso at what point did the Joker show he was impartial to human life lol

[Axilus Prime]

Well, I watched TDK in the time I wasn't posting here, and I feel the same way. Add that to the fact that I watched BB and TDK before the first time I saw TDKR, and I'm safe.

Edited August 5, 2012 by TNG Prime

[Takatu]

Joker killed several people without blinking, and blew up a police station at one point which killed at least a few people. And no, Joker never had any kind of lasting effect like that when I saw the movie (and I can say I saw it in theaters at least twice). I just found Bane to be straight up scarier.

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[Jean Valjean]

Oh boy.So let me put it this way: the Joker is a very great embodiment of chaotic evil. Simple, archetypal, and acted in a very convincing fashion so as to show modern audiences that simple archetypes can still be cool. For that, I really have to give the director and Heath Ledger credit for their vision.However, that's about the best I can describe the character. He's chaotic and creepy and evil, without justification for his action and eerily understandable while blowing away all those theories that people could only act rationally. Sometimes it is a pleasure to view a character who is truly black.He came out of nowhere, caused a lot of chaos, and was eventually subdued after taking a few people down with him. Since he never really had a plan the movie's story consisted mostly of the protagonists passively reacting to the climate thrust upon them. The movie has a narrative more akin to man vs. nature, and the Joker knew it. He acknowledged himself as nothing more than a force, an agent of chaos, an embodiment of an archetype.On the other hand, Bane is the type of villain you want to end a series on. He's big and menacing and superior to the hero in many ways. The only way the hero, Batman, could defeat him was with help and greater conviction (and one very handy flying apparatus). Throughout the film, he had the upper hand and his dominance becomes the status quo. Definitely material for a big bad. He has a back story closely intertwined with the hero's, and an objetive that specifically counter's Batman's. It made his intrusion upon the hero's life all the more personal.Batman certainly completed the Joker, although the Joker hardly completed Batman. Even though he's traditionally Batman's most prominent enemy for being such a contrasting personality, the Joker didn't contribute much to Batman's story other than killing the woman he never would have been able to get anyway. However, I think Ra's al-Ghul and Bane contributed far more direct influence on Bruce's personal development. The Joker was good for a transition movie, but Batman definitely needed to end on a man vs. man conflict. The MvM struggle opens up for a story that defines the hero in more complex ways, and it also opens up for the possibility of a villain who can develop. While Bane didn't develop much onscreen, there was still the sense that he was a complex person underneath all the scheming.They're both dark villains. That's just what Christopher Nolan does. I remember when only Batman Begins was out and there were advertisements for The Dark Knight. I knew there was going to be a very serious, creepy twist to the Joker. That's what I got. Same happened with Bane. Although at the end of the day I think preferred Bane because Batman had to change and grow in order to defeat him. That, and I like commanding villains.

Merida

Edited August 6, 2012 by Merida