Why Hero Factory is Way Darker than it Seems

[Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of]

When Hero Factory was announced, every hardcore BIONICLE fanboy threw up in their mouths a little. Gaudily colored heroes pre ordered from a factory to fight the villain of the week? No thank you! What happened to the dark, multidimensional, epic sagas of days gone by? The suspense and intrigue? All we have now are flat, boring characters, dialogue that sounds like it comes from a script, and a Power Ramgers style storyline with little to no improvement on the actual sets. And then Ordeal of Fire happened. Not only do we have a vastly superior building system to BIONICLE in every way shape or for, that is still 120% compatible with BIONICLE, System, and Technic pieces alike, but the story started taking steps in the right direction, too. And now we've built up from Power Rangers to the two words any BIONICLE fan has been fangirl shrieking about: Core Hunter. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?Rise of The Rookies: While series 1 was very childish, it built a very strong foundation for what was to come. It also introduced the light hearted, action packed, and humor oriented episodic style that now defines the HF story. But beyond that, it introduced Dunkan Bulk and his Rapid Fire Metal Sphere Shooter. Why is this significant, you may ask? Does a projectile that fires densely packed metal spheres at high velocity in rapid succession sound familiar to you? Did BIONICLE have frigging machine guns? The answers to those questions should be yes and no, respectively.Ordeal of Fire: Here's where it gets good. We have a gang of druggies who are heavily armed and hopped up on Hero Pod Fuel that brutally smashes Alpha 1, as well as a blood reference ("Ugh, now I have Hero oil on my hands. Nitroblast, get me a washcloth."). Did BIONICLE have their characters leak oil when injured? I didn't think so. And any police officer can tell you that if a gangster is on spthe right stuff, they can get scary, especially if their toting giant freaking uranium tipped drills. But the real gem in this saga is when Mark Surge, dip urging our climactic battle, takes a mother beeping cargo ship and flies it at full speed into a dude's face, smashing him so frigging hard he's entire body is ripped from its limb, leaving a mangled and sparking hand still firmly plugged into the wall. Hero Factory isn't dark enough my left foot. But wait, it gets better.Savage Planet: Here, we have a bat guano insane professor dressed in a skeleton suit run around with someone's skull, driving spikes of energy crystal into the backs of random sentient animals, forcing them to do his bidding while they're still fully conscious of what their doing (see: Raw Jaw). Mind ####, much?And then in the first minute of the show we have a plucky young hero voiced by Spongebob Squarepants of all people get brutally mauled by wolves right on camera in a relatively graphic display. Yep. Real light, guys.Finally,Breakout: Whoo boy, this ones a doozy. We have a homicidal psychopath create a black hole in the middle of the Hero Factory, releasing swarms of criminal scum across the universe to wreak untold havoc while the psychopath himself locks down the galaxy's greatest beacon of justice, stealing their top secret files, and then tries to blow the whole place up while it's still full of civilians. Then we have a schizophrenic murderer try to slam a giant space rock into a space station (also full of civilians), who ends up being impaled by a lightning sword and short circuiting (read: having every one of your blood vessels supercharged with hundreds or possibly even thousands of volts while you're made of METAL, one of the best conductors of electricity out there.) Next up we have a dude who shoots corrosive acid at you attempt to unleash swarms of angry poisonous minions on the world, whose favorite tactic as stated by his online bio is to create a small incision with a laser and pump you full of acid so you melt from the inside out. Then we have Jawblade, a massive shark who not only takes a bite out of Furno and mauls him Fangz style but who also uses Oxidium to rust robots. Imagine having your whole body slowly age and crust over before your eyes until you can't move without causing yourself extreme, excruciating pain. It's like aging and getting arthritis but ten times worse and it happens in undera minute. Voltix pumps Stringer full of lightning ala Surge and Splitface, but instead of impaling and short circuiting him he overloads his Hero Core, so that's basically like having a defibrillator hooked up to a nuclear power plant used on you when your heart is working just fine. The books give us the Doom Box, aka the claustrophobic's worst nightmare, a box that expands to encompass an entire galaxy, then crushes everything inside it slowly and brutally and did I mention it can't be turned off? And finally, Core Hunter. A serial killer that doesn't just kill you, but takes a giant pincer and rips your very heart and soul out of your body and wears it as a trophy.Good luck sleeping at night, kiddos.

[Klak]

Wow. I have to admit, there's a lot of fridge horror in HF that I missed. Though it's not as dark and gritty as a storyline where the main villain wins and becomes the universe, another villain is crushed by a portal with one half of their body in the space between spaces, one hero is eviscerated to save the universe, one villain is dispersed into molecules while being organic and spreads all throughout the universe, one literally disappears to death, someone gets a moon dropped on them, venom is pumped into the bloodstream of several Toa turning one of them evil, a civilization is marooned on a random island with barely any memory of their past, snake monsters inhabiting armor work for beings that used to be organic but became gas inside of metal, someone switches bodies with an Eldritch Abomination, someone mind screwed that Eldritch Abomination, (all that's for starters, and Bionicle is not even that gritty) HF definitely seems to have some gritty moments for a kid's series.Well done!

[dotcom]

Wow. I have to admit, there's a lot of fridge horror in HF that I missed. Though it's not as dark and gritty as a storyline where the main villain wins and becomes the universe, another villain is crushed by a portal with one half of their body in the space between spaces, one hero is eviscerated to save the universe, one villain is dispersed into molecules while being organic and spreads all throughout the universe, one literally disappears to death, someone gets a moon dropped on them, venom is pumped into the bloodstream of several Toa turning one of them evil, a civilization is marooned on a random island with barely any memory of their past, snake monsters inhabiting armor work for beings that used to be organic but became gas inside of metal, someone switches bodies with an Eldritch Abomination, someone mind screwed that Eldritch Abomination, (all that's for starters, and Bionicle is not even that gritty) HF definitely seems to have some gritty moments for a kid's series.Well done!

Yes, let's discuss the ten years of Bionicle's story, including the obscure parts, against three years of Hero Factory. That makes sense.Most of the things you mentioned aren't even dark at all. Fridge Horror =/= actually horror. (Bionicle was also a kids series.)I like this way of looking at HF, but it's much too apologetic. HF doesn't need to be "dark and gritty," it's perfectly okay as a silly thing. Its tone is fine, the writing is what needs work.(And you forgot how Evo wanted to kill the little Reapas before they were even born in Breakout. And how Stormer made SD intentionally crash his ultra hispeedz nitron cycle or What Ever into a glacier.)

[Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of]

Wow. I have to admit, there's a lot of fridge horror in HF that I missed. Though it's not as dark and gritty as a storyline where the main villain wins and becomes the universe, another villain is crushed by a portal with one half of their body in the space between spaces, one hero is eviscerated to save the universe, one villain is dispersed into molecules while being organic and spreads all throughout the universe, one literally disappears to death, someone gets a moon dropped on them, venom is pumped into the bloodstream of several Toa turning one of them evil, a civilization is marooned on a random island with barely any memory of their past, snake monsters inhabiting armor work for beings that used to be organic but became gas inside of metal, someone switches bodies with an Eldritch Abomination, someone mind screwed that Eldritch Abomination, (all that's for starters, and Bionicle is not even that gritty) HF definitely seems to have some gritty moments for a kid's series.Well done!

Yes, let's discuss the ten years of Bionicle's story, including the obscure parts, against three years of Hero Factory. That makes sense.Most of the things you mentioned aren't even dark at all. Fridge Horror =/= actually horror. (Bionicle was also a kids series.)I like this way of looking at HF, but it's much too apologetic. HF doesn't need to be "dark and gritty," it's perfectly okay as a silly thing. Its tone is fine, the writing is what needs work.(And you forgot how Evo wanted to kill the little Reapas before they were even born in Breakout. And how Stormer made SD intentionally crash his ultra hispeedz nitron cycle or What Ever into a glacier.)

Thanks, I also love the fun style of the main story and what not, but I just hear way, way to much complaining about how it's too light or whatever when if you actually think about it and not just look at the surface, you can make Hero Factory to be just as intense or dark as you want it to be! Another thing I forgot to mention is that if you read the array of missiles Dunkan Bulk has on the Hero Factory website, Atomic is listed. That's right, we have a hero running around shooting nukes at people. Edited August 11, 2012 by Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of

[FrozenFlash]

I'm not sure whether this is considered "dark" or not but in Core Crisis, Bulk was (mostly) crushed underneath the metal bars. Imagine how much that must hurt if you were underneath that.

[Klak]

Wow. I have to admit, there's a lot of fridge horror in HF that I missed. Though it's not as dark and gritty as a storyline where the main villain wins and becomes the universe, another villain is crushed by a portal with one half of their body in the space between spaces, one hero is eviscerated to save the universe, one villain is dispersed into molecules while being organic and spreads all throughout the universe, one literally disappears to death, someone gets a moon dropped on them, venom is pumped into the bloodstream of several Toa turning one of them evil, a civilization is marooned on a random island with barely any memory of their past, snake monsters inhabiting armor work for beings that used to be organic but became gas inside of metal, someone switches bodies with an Eldritch Abomination, someone mind screwed that Eldritch Abomination, (all that's for starters, and Bionicle is not even that gritty) HF definitely seems to have some gritty moments for a kid's series.Well done!

Yes, let's discuss the ten years of Bionicle's story, including the obscure parts, against three years of Hero Factory. That makes sense.Most of the things you mentioned aren't even dark at all. Fridge Horror =/= actually horror.(Bionicle was also a kids series.)I like this way of looking at HF, but it's much too apologetic. HF doesn't need to be "dark and gritty," it's perfectly okay as a silly thing. Its tone is fine, the writing is what needs work.(And you forgot how Evo wanted to kill the little Reapas before they were even born in Breakout. And how Stormer made SD intentionally crash his ultra hispeedz nitron cycle or What Ever into a glacier.)

Lol@how you dislike the fact I compared Bionicle to Hero Factory when the original poster did the exact same thing.Plus, Fridge horror was referring to Hero Factory, not Bionicle.And HF is also a kids series, so I don't see how that detracts from my point. Edited August 11, 2012 by MakutaKlak

[dotcom]

Lol@how you dislike the fact I compared Bionicle to Hero Factory when the original poster did the exact same thing. Plus, Fridge horror was referring to Hero Factory, not Bionicle.And HF is also a kids series, so I don't see how that detracts from my point.

The point is you don't have a point. You made a point of stacking 10 years of Bio. against three of Hero Factory. (Which is like comparing the rad math skillz of a 10 and a three year old). You made a point of calling HF a kid's series when doing that as well. (Back to my analogy, a kid that's ten and a kid who's three are both still just kids). Also, the original poster never said: "Okay I guess Bionicle was kind of dark, BUT LOOK AT ALL THIS STUFF iT DIDN'T DO." It was talking about HF in its own merits.

[~Shockwave~]

robot violence =/= organic violence.we watched jazz get ripped in half in the first transformers movie, but it wasn't that bad really.and i know that when i listened to the podcast that involved (what was her name?) getting torn in half by a portal, i cringed.and hero factory doesn't really draw attention to that.

[WeatherDragon]

I would not call it 'dark', friend. The hand being cut off and the Witch Doctor enslaving creatures is just average (the dismemberment of the hand was calmly recieved by children because...not only did he just shrug it off...but he's a robot, too). It has gotten a little more hardcore...but I, personally, wouldn't call it 'dark'.

[Klak]

Lol@how you dislike the fact I compared Bionicle to Hero Factory when the original poster did the exact same thing.Plus, Fridge horror was referring to Hero Factory, not Bionicle.And HF is also a kids series, so I don't see how that detracts from my point.

The point is you don't have a point. You made a point of stacking 10 years of Bio. against three of Hero Factory. (Which is like comparing the rad math skillz of a 10 and a three year old). You made a point of calling HF a kid's series when doing that as well. (Back to my analogy, a kid that's ten and a kid who's three are both still just kids).

Well, I stated my opinion, and clearly defended it. That counts as a point.

Also, the original poster never said: "Okay I guess Bionicle was kind of dark, BUT LOOK AT ALL THIS STUFF iT DIDN'T DO." It was talking about HF in its own merits.

That's a comparison/contrast. Hence my post. And I'm the one who doesn't "have a point"?And I didn't mean "kids series" as a condescending note as you assume. Edited August 11, 2012 by MakutaKlak

[Flex Lord Splash]

But don't robots feel no pain? That's where Bionicle is superior in my eyes, they weren't just robots, they were part organic too. That and they had awesome mask powers, and elemental powers. The characters in Bionicle were more living and breathing and epic in my opinion, while Hero Machine will always just be robots, no matter how dark or gritty they try to make it.

[Toa Zaz]

No offense, but you seem to be relatively sheltered when it comes to depictions of violence in cinema. Cannibal Holocaust, A Serbian Film, those are violent. This is toyetic kiddy fair with mild to moderately violent undercurrents. Most of the instances you mentioned happened (partially) offscreen; were desensitized by the perpetrators being robots or usage fantasy weapons, etc.; and/or were undercut by jokes to create comic relief. In the TV series, Bulk's weapon is a laser gun, and he never actually shoots (although attempts to) anyone with it. In Ordeal of Fire, the Fire Villains, aside from Fire Lord, serve as goons as opposed to drug-addicted terrorists. Also, aside from what Fire Lord does to Furno in the comic, they don't really "smash" the heroes. Instead, they mostly shoot fireballs at stuff which oddly enough don't seem to really do any genuine damage. The line where Fire Lord comments on having fluids on his hands seems to be played more for laughs then anything else. Drilldozer's weapon is too fantastical enough to be threatening. Admittedly, Fire Lord's amputation was fairly gruesome, but afterwards he seemed more resigned than in actual pain. In Savage Planet, Witch Doctor's skull was made of stone, and the addition of Quaza Spikes to the animals likely wasn't painful, as getting them broken off certainly wasn't. It's hard to feel too sorry for the animals being forced to witness themselves do the Witch Doctor's bidding because he never really made them do anything that evil, just put Quaza in a box. They weren't forced to kill people or anything. Also, Rocka being "mauled" by wolves was not only totally offscreen, but he didn't seem all that hurt afterwards and he was back in the groove of things in a couple of minutes. In Breakout, Black Phantom or Voltix or Von Nebula or whoever you were referring to isn't homicidal at all (he doesn't kill a single person). Also, he wasn't trying to blow up the factory, but merely destroy the assembly tower to prevent the creation of more heroes. Splitface's goal wasn't necessarily to kill the civilians in the space stations, but to disable the structure itself to prevent communication through it, and he didn't short circuit, he was just knocked into an asteroid and seemed fine afterwards. Toxic Reapa's tactic, like much of the online material, never actually played out in any other media and is likely non-canon and irrelevant. Furno seemed totally fine despite everything Jawblade did to him. Stringer actually stated that being electrocuted by Voltix helped recharge his core. Now, I haven't read the books (I don't think they're out yet in America), but the Doom Box, conceptually, is so outlandish and cartoon-like that it doesn't seem very threatening. Besides, as the books (or at least Legion of Darkness) are prequels, there's no way the whole galaxy could actually be crushed, anyway. ...Although, how they handle Core Hunter is still fair game for more violent content. Interestingly, in the online material (which, as I said before, is still likely non-canon), they seem to be playing him somewhat more seriously than the other villains, so hopefully they actually will go the darker way out with this. We'll see pretty soon, since the new episode has apparently aired in Korea.

[dotcom]

Lol@how you dislike the fact I compared Bionicle to Hero Factory when the original poster did the exact same thing. Plus, Fridge horror was referring to Hero Factory, not Bionicle. And HF is also a kids series, so I don't see how that detracts from my point.

The point is you don't have a point. You made a point of stacking 10 years of Bio. against three of Hero Factory. (Which is like comparing the rad math skillz of a 10 and a three year old). You made a point of calling HF a kid's series when doing that as well. (Back to my analogy, a kid that's ten and a kid who's three are both still just kids).

Well, I stated my opinion, and clearly defended it. That counts as a point.

Also, the original poster never said: "Okay I guess Bionicle was kind of dark, BUT LOOK AT ALL THIS STUFF IT DIDN'T DO." It was talking about HF in its own merits.

That's a comparison/contrast. Hence my post. And I'm the one who doesn't "have a point"? And I didn't mean "kids series" as a condescending note as you assume.

You are able to clearly defend the position that Bionicle was "darker" because Bionicle was longer. Try finding that amount of "dark" material in 2001-2003. There isn't any. Tuyet getting cut in half, and the very few things like that happened in one obscure supplemental material to the main story eight years in. That's really not comparable to the very first years of some other series. It's not a very sound argument.But really, what ever. This isn't as big a deal as it's being made, by me.@Zaz: The entire point of this is that HF is a kid's series. Nobody cares if R rated movies or somesuch are very violent. That's to be expected. This is talking about how "dark" this is exactly because it's supposed to be a "toyetic kiddy fair" (Not that I know what that means, but it sounds appropos)That said, I do agree that HF is handled in a way that these things are handled are too outlandish and fantastical to be taken very seriously at all. The robot angle also detracts from this perspective, though I'm pretty sure they've been shown to feel pain too, so it's not as ignorable as one would think.But, like I said in my original post, I don't really like to think of HF as dark. That's boring.

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

Quite honestly, I think the majority of the things in the first post are just being blown out of proportion. While I understand it, I find it ridiculous at all when the Heroes cry out in "pain" when they are hit, considering that they are robots. Villains as well (sans Splitface). I can agree with Fire Lord's hand and Core Hunter, but the others don't honestly seem to be as bad as you are making them out to be, IMO.Also, on the subject of dark things in Bionicle between 01-03:2001 had Lewa getting infected and fighting Onua, the whole concept of Infected Mask seemed kinda dark to some I'm sure, Kopaka getting "crushed" by Pohatu's boulders, Lewa almost drowning... And that is all I can think of for 01 that people may find dark.2002 also had Lewa getting enslaved by the Krana, Tahu as well. Then the whole destroying of the villages, Matoran's homes, the Levahk (acid and all that, and yeah I know it is in HF too) and then, on that subject, all of Le-Koro getting enslaved. And that is all I can think of ATM.And then in 2003 there was Jaller's death, more destruction of Matoran homes, Tahu getting infected and getting mad at Gali and co. And the Toa getting their powers sucked away and being made seemingly hopeless. Then the multiple times people almost got crushed to dust by Nuhvahk Kal. And then the Bohrok Kal's deaths. And the Rahkshi's. And Makuta's "death" when Takanuva hit him with a ball of Protodermis or whatever it was.All in all, there were quite a few "dark" instances in Bionicle between 01-03. I didn't name them all, and I'm sure some of them aren't all that dark, but they were there. I guess it is just the consistencies were different for them due to being Bio-mechanical as opposed to HF characters, which are fully robotic (sans Splitface).Just my two cents, I suppose. Either way, I still think the original post exaggerated a little bit with things. Then again, I most likely did in this post =/

[Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of]

No offense, but you seem to be relatively sheltered when it comes to depictions of violence in cinema. Cannibal Holocaust, A Serbian Film, those are violent. This is toyetic kiddy fair with mild to moderately violent undercurrents. Most of the instances you mentioned happened (partially) offscreen; were desensitized by the perpetrators being robots or usage fantasy weapons, etc.; and/or were undercut by jokes to create comic relief. In the TV series, Bulk's weapon is a laser gun, and he never actually shoots (although attempts to) anyone with it. In Ordeal of Fire, the Fire Villains, aside from Fire Lord, serve as goons as opposed to drug-addicted terrorists. Also, aside from what Fire Lord does to Furno in the comic, they don't really "smash" the heroes. Instead, they mostly shoot fireballs at stuff which oddly enough don't seem to really do any genuine damage. The line where Fire Lord comments on having fluids on his hands seems to be played more for laughs then anything else. Drilldozer's weapon is too fantastical enough to be threatening. Admittedly, Fire Lord's amputation was fairly gruesome, but afterwards he seemed more resigned than in actual pain. In Savage Planet, Witch Doctor's skull was made of stone, and the addition of Quaza Spikes to the animals likely wasn't painful, as getting them broken off certainly wasn't. It's hard to feel too sorry for the animals being forced to witness themselves do the Witch Doctor's bidding because he never really made them do anything that evil, just put Quaza in a box. They weren't forced to kill people or anything. Also, Rocka being "mauled" by wolves was not only totally offscreen, but he didn't seem all that hurt afterwards and he was back in the groove of things in a couple of minutes. In Breakout, Black Phantom or Voltix or Von Nebula or whoever you were referring to isn't homicidal at all (he doesn't kill a single person). Also, he wasn't trying to blow up the factory, but merely destroy the assembly tower to prevent the creation of more heroes. Splitface's goal wasn't necessarily to kill the civilians in the space stations, but to disable the structure itself to prevent communication through it, and he didn't short circuit, he was just knocked into an asteroid and seemed fine afterwards. Toxic Reapa's tactic, like much of the online material, never actually played out in any other media and is likely non-canon and irrelevant. Furno seemed totally fine despite everything Jawblade did to him. Stringer actually stated that being electrocuted by Voltix helped recharge his core. Now, I haven't read the books (I don't think they're out yet in America), but the Doom Box, conceptually, is so outlandish and cartoon-like that it doesn't seem very threatening. Besides, as the books (or at least Legion of Darkness) are prequels, there's no way the whole galaxy could actually be crushed, anyway. ...Although, how they handle Core Hunter is still fair game for more violent content. Interestingly, in the online material (which, as I said before, is still likely non-canon), they seem to be playing him somewhat more seriously than the other villains, so hopefully they actually will go the darker way out with this. We'll see pretty soon, since the new episode has apparently aired in Korea.

OK, this is going to devolve into a flame war pretty soon, so let me clarify. OBVIOUSLY robot violence=/=organic violence, OBVIOUSLY every character is a robot, OBVIOUSLY everything in the OP was greatly reduced on screen because it's for little kids, OBVIOUSLY if you wanted a horror story you would go watch a horror film. And yes, I was being slightly sarcastic and hyperbolic in the OP. I'm absolutely sick, however, of how BIONICLE fanboys get all butthurt over how the new LEGO constraction theme is too 'kiddy' compared to BIONICLE when it frigging isn't. No, we don't have a bot get bisected by a portal. But guess what? Even that, one of if not the most graphic scenes in BIONICLE canon (btw, it was on an obscure freaking podcast that very few actual little kids were going to find, so this was them being extravagant) was described solely as "The portal closed, Takanuva looked back, and was horrified by what he saw. Mercifully, death came quickly." So yeah, guys, very intense. So horrific. Talk about gore. I'd say watching Splitface writhe in agony with two disjointed screams coming from his mouth is way more graphic, even if it's not as actually painful as being cut in half. Also, that was shown in mainstream media, not a side podcast for AFOL nerds like us. My point is, other than the fact that we had deaths in BIONICLE and not yet in HF (and they may be coming up soon - I wouldn't be surprised if Thresher is killed or scrapped or whatever in the books), all the violence beyond kid friendly is left to the I agitation in both series, so if you want to write fanfiction, go nuts with the robo violence. Have bots tear each other lmb from limb. If you think official stuff is too light, read between the li ex like I did. Think, "If I was crushed under a poopload of steel girders and my lifesource is rapidly being drained hile a vicious and literally heartless killer is attepting to melt me, how would I feel?". And if no matter what you can't enjoy HF, whether forit's humor, refreshing episodic story after the multimedia monstrosity that BIONICLE became, or it's light to moderate undercurrents of violence, please please PLEASE don't come online and on plain about it. The vast majority of the fan base has gotten over it, including pretty much the entirety of BZP, and yet wherever I go there's a small bot vocal minority of Hate Dumb whining about how much HF sucks. I guess this was just a shock move on my part, so if the mods want to lock this they can, or. We can keep it open as a "Discuss the more Mature Parts of HF's story topic". I apologize for my slightly immature behavior and I hope we can all agree to have fun with HF and LEGO no matter how we do so. :)P.S. Sentient robots would totally have pain sensors in a robot dominated society. Otherwise they'd just be emotionless killing machines and wouldn't have a society. My theory is that pain programs are like that little battery symbol on your electronic that turns red when it's almost out of power, it's like a warning for bots to get themselves repaired o they don't keep fighting and get destroyed.P.P.S. Michael Bay's (cruddy) Transformers was totally about sentient robots beating each other and nobody seemed to think that wans't violent enough.

[Black Six]

Hey guys, let's all take a deep breath and calm down here, shall we?

[Axilus Prime]

Michael Bay's Transformers was awesome. All three.Anyway, back on-topic, movies are only two things. Visual and sound. If you do not use these things to make the tone right, it will not come out properly.You are correct, those things, in your writing, inspired darker images in my head. However, the animators and sound engineers made it more lighthearted so kids can watch it and not proceed immediately afterwards to having nightmares.Or so they say. The kids I know aren't like that.

[fishers64]

Anyone can read anything into anything. If you prefer to read HF as dark and gritty, that's your opinion...Personally, that interpretation in the OP made me feel like HF was making fun of robot-mauling situations, however. Quite disturbing. Although I guess threats to the galaxy could be a whole lot worse than the mild offscreen ineffective wolf-mauling in Hero Factory.

[Podu]

I never got into any HF content story-wise, dismissing it simply as another LEGO's series that has a crippled storyline.Speaking of violence, how is BIONICLE not violent? Jallar was brutally murdered by a Turahk, and Makuta was crushed by a gaint door and had greenish gas leaking out of him. That's quite disturbing imo.

[Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of]

You mean Jaller glowed red for a couple seconds and fell to the floor.

[Klak]

Anyone can read anything into anything. If you prefer to read HF as dark and gritty, that's your opinion...Personally, that interpretation in the OP made me feel like HF was making fun of robot-mauling situations, however. Quite disturbing. Although I guess threats to the galaxy could be a whole lot worse than the mild offscreen ineffective wolf-mauling in Hero Factory.

Indeed.

I never got into any HF content story-wise, dismissing it simply as another LEGO's series that has a crippled storyline.Speaking of violence, how is BIONICLE not violent? Jallar was brutally murdered by a Turahk, and Makuta was crushed by a gaint door and had greenish gas leaking out of him. That's quite disturbing imo.

It is, which is my whole point. OP compared them, and I pointed out how while HF might have had a speck of grittiness, it still hadn't reached Bionicle level grittiness. I don't know why people, specifically the OP, get so upset over that mere disagreement. And yet we're the melancholic ones? Edited August 15, 2012 by KlakWest

[Podu]

It is, which is my whole point. OP compared them, and I pointed out how while HF might have had a speck of grittiness, it still hadn't reached Bionicle level grittiness. I don't know why people, specifically the OP, get so upset over that mere disagreement. And yet we're the "melancholic" ones?[slightly edited ]

Well I guess his point is, BIONICLE-violence is justified. Like the cases I mentioned, they were there for plot progression and the morality of story that kind of stuff. While HF-violence is more like the comical humor where the characters are treated with extreme violence (i.e. amputation w/ gore) but still manage to survive and laugh at it afterwards. Still I don't see why he made such a big deal out of it. It is not like kids nowadays cannot judge from comical violence from real-life violence. If anything, it's their parents' repsonsibility to control their exposure to the Internet and the media and whatnot.

[Lyichir]

I agree with your points about some of the fridge horror in Hero Factory, but I'm just as happy leaving it in the fridge. Many of the points you made, such as Fire Lord's hand being ripped off, would be horrific if not for the rules of the Hero Factory universe (Fire Lord is a robot, and if that had affected him like it would a human, he wouldn't have been able to shrug it off so easily). And while others are more legitimately dark, like Fire Lord and his cronies being obviously based on drug addiction and every single thing about Core Hunter, they're the kind of dark that wouldn't faze most kids. Moreover, the darkness of the series is offset by the humor, and the fact that pretty much every story arc culminates in a happy ending.And you know what? I'm okay with that. Bionicle may have been awesome for its continuous mysteries wrapped in enigmas, but not every Lego theme has to be Bionicle. Hero Factory's less serious nature appeals to me, and I'm sure it appeals to a great number of kids as well. Hero Factory doesn't need to be dark to be good. What it does need is better writing, with deeper and more consistent character development. I wouldn't mind if next year one of the villains is defeated by being tricked onto a souped up merry-go-round, so long as the heroes tricking them aren't making out-of-character jokes like Stringer's infamous "cattle-wrangling" quip from Savage Planet. What makes Hero Factory good, in my opinion, is the variety of both Hero and Villain characters, and the story should focus on making each of them more compelling. And if the story does take a darker turn, that's fine too, so long as the characters remain consistent and compelling.

[Klak]

I agree with your points about some of the fridge horror in Hero Factory, but I'm just as happy leaving it in the fridge. Many of the points you made, such as Fire Lord's hand being ripped off, would be horrific if not for the rules of the Hero Factory universe (Fire Lord is a robot, and if that had affected him like it would a human, he wouldn't have been able to shrug it off so easily). And while others are more legitimately dark, like Fire Lord and his cronies being obviously based on drug addiction and every single thing about Core Hunter, they're the kind of dark that wouldn't faze most kids. Moreover, the darkness of the series is offset by the humor, and the fact that pretty much every story arc culminates in a happy ending.And you know what? I'm okay with that. Bionicle may have been awesome for its continuous mysteries wrapped in enigmas, but not every Lego theme has to be Bionicle. Hero Factory's less serious nature appeals to me, and I'm sure it appeals to a great number of kids as well. Hero Factory doesn't need to be dark to be good. What it does need is better writing, with deeper and more consistent character development. I wouldn't mind if next year one of the villains is defeated by being tricked onto a souped up merry-go-round, so long as the heroes tricking them aren't making out-of-character jokes like Stringer's infamous "cattle-wrangling" quip from Savage Planet. What makes Hero Factory good, in my opinion, is the variety of both Hero and Villain characters, and the story should focus on making each of them more compelling. And if the story does take a darker turn, that's fine too, so long as the characters remain consistent and compelling.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the OP wants to point this out to compare both lines (because he seems to have a strange grudge against Bionicle fans), and HF is the successor to Bionicle. Those who compared both lines in response are only following in suit.

[Makuta DUSt]

we watched jazz get ripped in half in the first transformers movie, but it wasn't that bad really.

Wasn't that bad? Okay, but in the video game, he had his soul sucked out to fuel another robot.Back to the topic.Dear god, I never realised that Hero Factory had all... this going on. The way you describe Core Hunter, it reminds me of the Meta from Red vs. Blue.

[Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of]

Did you even read my second to latest post, KlakWest? You know, the one where I admitted hat I personally prefer HF just the way it is and I only posted this topic where I purposefully exaggerated the fridge horror solely for a shock move because I was tired of people complaining about HF, not because I think it needs to be dark? It honestly took me quite a while to find all the examples in the OP and I blew them way out of proportion. And I have also said that by far the majority of BZP has gotten over BIONICLE worship, but there are always people everywhere I go online that say Oh, HF =Power Rangers when it DOESN'T. Just because it's funny and about good guys fighting bad guys doesn't mean it's juvenile crud. The reason I posted this here is not because I have a grudge against BIONICLE fans, (which was rude of you to assume seeing as I explained all this in my post if you scroll up) in fact I AM a big BIONICLE fan, this was posted here for the benefit of the guys who go around posting stuff about how horrid HF is as a shock move, not because of my personal beliefs. Why did I post it here, on BZP, if I think it's one of the more mature communities? Because not only is it the largest BIONICLE site on the web, meaning some of those people will actually see this, but because I was hoping nobody her would allow it to devolve into a flame war of BIONICLE vs. HF. Which it has. Next time I'll post elsewhere. :/

[fishers64]

I agree with your points about some of the fridge horror in Hero Factory, but I'm just as happy leaving it in the fridge. Many of the points you made, such as Fire Lord's hand being ripped off, would be horrific if not for the rules of the Hero Factory universe (Fire Lord is a robot, and if that had affected him like it would a human, he wouldn't have been able to shrug it off so easily). And while others are more legitimately dark, like Fire Lord and his cronies being obviously based on drug addiction and every single thing about Core Hunter, they're the kind of dark that wouldn't faze most kids. Moreover, the darkness of the series is offset by the humor, and the fact that pretty much every story arc culminates in a happy ending.And you know what? I'm okay with that. Bionicle may have been awesome for its continuous mysteries wrapped in enigmas, but not every Lego theme has to be Bionicle. Hero Factory's less serious nature appeals to me, and I'm sure it appeals to a great number of kids as well. Hero Factory doesn't need to be dark to be good. What it does need is better writing, with deeper and more consistent character development. I wouldn't mind if next year one of the villains is defeated by being tricked onto a souped up merry-go-round, so long as the heroes tricking them aren't making out-of-character jokes like Stringer's infamous "cattle-wrangling" quip from Savage Planet. What makes Hero Factory good, in my opinion, is the variety of both Hero and Villain characters, and the story should focus on making each of them more compelling. And if the story does take a darker turn, that's fine too, so long as the characters remain consistent and compelling.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the OP wants to point this out to compare both lines (because he seems to have a strange grudge against Bionicle fans), and HF is the successor to Bionicle. Those who compared both lines in response are only following in suit.

The OP does not have a grudge against Bionicle fans, he just would like to point out that Hero Factory isn't completely cheesy lines and watered-down action, like some Bionicle fans could believe, but do not necessarily. He is adressing a misconception that may or may not exist among us, but has the possibility to exist.Edit: @Xalen: Yes, I've seen a few posts about here knocking HF slightly for a shallow story... Edited August 15, 2012 by fishers64

[dotcom]

Anyone can read anything into anything. If you prefer to read HF as dark and gritty, that's your opinion...Personally, that interpretation in the OP made me feel like HF was making fun of robot-mauling situations, however. Quite disturbing. Although I guess threats to the galaxy could be a whole lot worse than the mild offscreen ineffective wolf-mauling in Hero Factory.

Indeed.

I never got into any HF content story-wise, dismissing it simply as another LEGO's series that has a crippled storyline.Speaking of violence, how is BIONICLE not violent? Jallar was brutally murdered by a Turahk, and Makuta was crushed by a gaint door and had greenish gas leaking out of him. That's quite disturbing imo.

It is, which is my whole point. OP compared them, and I pointed out how while HF might have had a speck of grittiness, it still hadn't reached Bionicle level grittiness. I don't know why people, specifically the OP, get so upset over that mere disagreement. And yet we're the melancholic ones?

Bionicle didn't reach "Bionicle level grittiness" for a long time, though. That's something you persistently decide to ignore.

[Klak]

Did you even read my second to latest post, KlakWest? You know, the one where I admitted hat I personally prefer HF just the way it is and I only posted this topic where I purposefully exaggerated the fridge horror solely for a shock move because I was tired of people complaining about HF, not because I think it needs to be dark?

I did, but I don't see how it makes me wrong in any way.

It honestly took me quite a while to find all the examples in the OP and I blew them way out of proportion.

Awesome, and you impressed me.

And I have also said that by far the majority of BZP has gotten over BIONICLE worship, but there are always people everywhere I go online that say Oh, HF =Power Rangers when it DOESN'T. Just because it's funny and about good guys fighting bad guys doesn't mean it's juvenile crud.

1. Liking Bionicle more than HF=/=Bionicle worship. 2. Just because someone disagrees with you on HF doesn't mean they think it's juvenile crud. And comparing it to Power Rangers isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the latter's popularity and fame.

The reason I posted this here is not because I have a grudge against BIONICLE fans, (which was rude of you to assume seeing as I explained all this in my post if you scroll up)

You angrily posted a negative reaction to Bionicle fans, saying that some worshipped the line. That seems like a grudge to me. Again, the key word is "seems", which you can see in my post above.

in fact I AM a big BIONICLE fan, this was posted here for the benefit of the guys who go around posting stuff about how horrid HF is as a shock move, not because of my personal beliefs. Why did I post it here, on BZP, if I think it's one of the more mature communities? Because not only is it the largest BIONICLE site on the web, meaning some of those people will actually see this, but because I was hoping nobody her would allow it to devolve into a flame war of BIONICLE vs. HF. Which it has. Next time I'll post elsewhere. :/

I clearly appreciated your topic, that's not the point here, you are misunderstanding me. And it really wouldn't have descended into a flame war had dotcom and everyone else refused to get angry over a silly comparison that I made.

Anyone can read anything into anything. If you prefer to read HF as dark and gritty, that's your opinion...Personally, that interpretation in the OP made me feel like HF was making fun of robot-mauling situations, however. Quite disturbing. Although I guess threats to the galaxy could be a whole lot worse than the mild offscreen ineffective wolf-mauling in Hero Factory.

Indeed.

I never got into any HF content story-wise, dismissing it simply as another LEGO's series that has a crippled storyline.Speaking of violence, how is BIONICLE not violent? Jallar was brutally murdered by a Turahk, and Makuta was crushed by a gaint door and had greenish gas leaking out of him. That's quite disturbing imo.

It is, which is my whole point. OP compared them, and I pointed out how while HF might have had a speck of grittiness, it still hadn't reached Bionicle level grittiness. I don't know why people, specifically the OP, get so upset over that mere disagreement. And yet we're the melancholic ones?

Bionicle didn't reach "Bionicle level grittiness" for a long time, though. That's something you persistently decide to ignore.

The OP ignored it, so I ignored it. Like I said, I was following suit. That is a fact that you persistently decide to ignore.

I agree with your points about some of the fridge horror in Hero Factory, but I'm just as happy leaving it in the fridge. Many of the points you made, such as Fire Lord's hand being ripped off, would be horrific if not for the rules of the Hero Factory universe (Fire Lord is a robot, and if that had affected him like it would a human, he wouldn't have been able to shrug it off so easily). And while others are more legitimately dark, like Fire Lord and his cronies being obviously based on drug addiction and every single thing about Core Hunter, they're the kind of dark that wouldn't faze most kids. Moreover, the darkness of the series is offset by the humor, and the fact that pretty much every story arc culminates in a happy ending.And you know what? I'm okay with that. Bionicle may have been awesome for its continuous mysteries wrapped in enigmas, but not every Lego theme has to be Bionicle. Hero Factory's less serious nature appeals to me, and I'm sure it appeals to a great number of kids as well. Hero Factory doesn't need to be dark to be good. What it does need is better writing, with deeper and more consistent character development. I wouldn't mind if next year one of the villains is defeated by being tricked onto a souped up merry-go-round, so long as the heroes tricking them aren't making out-of-character jokes like Stringer's infamous "cattle-wrangling" quip from Savage Planet. What makes Hero Factory good, in my opinion, is the variety of both Hero and Villain characters, and the story should focus on making each of them more compelling. And if the story does take a darker turn, that's fine too, so long as the characters remain consistent and compelling.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the OP wants to point this out to compare both lines (because he seems to have a strange grudge against Bionicle fans), and HF is the successor to Bionicle. Those who compared both lines in response are only following in suit.

The OP does not have a grudge against Bionicle fans, he just would like to point out that Hero Factory isn't completely cheesy lines and watered-down action, like some Bionicle fans could believe, but do not necessarily. He is adressing a misconception that may or may not exist among us, but has the possibility to exist.Edit: @Xalen: Yes, I've seen a few posts about here knocking HF slightly for a shallow story...

It seemed like he did, that's why I said the word "seems". If he didn't, then no worries. Like I said earlier, his topic was surprising in pointing out these things.

[Black Six]

Xalen, you need to calm down. This is the second time I've had to post in this topic. If I have to come here again, it will be to close it.

[Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of]

Alright, the first thin I want to say here is that I am not and never will be criticizing your ultimate decision on whether or not to close this topic, as it apparently remains a very sore subject that I thought had calmed down. As topic starter I accept full responsibility for this topic and understand that all blame if there is any will go towards me, and I'm fine with that. However, I would like to call attention to the fact that not only have all three primary members in this debate (Myself, KlakWest, and UndyingUmbrage) have remained relatively mature throughout, as well as the fact that the thread of discussion perhaps most likely to lead to flaming has already been resolved.

Wow. I have to admit, there's a lot of fridge horror in HF that I missed. Though it's not as dark and gritty as a storyline where the main villain wins and becomes the universe, another villain is crushed by a portal with one half of their body in the space between spaces, one hero is eviscerated to save the universe, one villain is dispersed into molecules while being organic and spreads all throughout the universe, one literally disappears to death, someone gets a moon dropped on them, venom is pumped into the bloodstream of several Toa turning one of them evil, a civilization is marooned on a random island with barely any memory of their past, snake monsters inhabiting armor work for beings that used to be organic but became gas inside of metal, someone switches bodies with an Eldritch Abomination, someone mind screwed that Eldritch Abomination, (all that's for starters, and Bionicle is not even that gritty) HF definitely seems to have some gritty moments for a kid's series.Well done!

KlakWest's first post, here, was mature and rational, giving me, as the poster props for my research, but also comparing the totes of BIONICLE violence with HF's relatively minimalistic and played-for-laughs violence.

Yes, let's discuss the ten years of Bionicle's story, including the obscure parts, against three years of Hero Factory. That makes sense.Most of the things you mentioned aren't even dark at all. Fridge Horror =/= actually horror. (Bionicle was also a kids series.)I like this way of looking at HF, but it's much too apologetic. HF doesn't need to be "dark and gritty," it's perfectly okay as a silly thing. Its tone is fine, the writing is what needs work.(And you forgot how Evo wanted to kill the little Reapas before they were even born in Breakout. And how Stormer made SD intentionally crash his ultra hispeedz nitron cycle or What Ever into a glacier.)

Here UU enters the conversation, and while it was slightly sarcastic, after expressing his disagreement with KW's point he went on to maturely discuss the topic at hand.

Thanks, I also love the fun style of the main story and what not, but I just hear way, way to much complaining about how it's too light or whatever when if you actually think about it and not just look at the surface, you can make Hero Factory to be just as intense or dark as you want it to be! Another thing I forgot to mention is that if you read the array of missiles Dunkan Bulk has on the Hero Factory website, Atomic is listed. That's right, we have a hero running around shooting nukes at people.

Here I addressed the issue at hand before it became a problem by establishing my perspective to dispel any ideas I was a BIONICLE hater, then continued with the primary discussion. No signs of flaming yet.

Lol@how you dislike the fact I compared Bionicle to Hero Factory when the original poster did the exact same thing.Plus, Fridge horror was referring to Hero Factory, not Bionicle.And HF is also a kids series, so I don't see how that detracts from my point.

Here is where the first possibilities of flaming start to show up, and where I realized what a sore spot I'd accidentally touched on. As more people posted in agreement with KlakWest, I decided to take preemptive action and actually address the issue:

No offense, but you seem to be relatively sheltered when it comes to depictions of violence in cinema. Cannibal Holocaust, A Serbian Film, those are violent. This is toyetic kiddy fair with mild to moderately violent undercurrents. Most of the instances you mentioned happened (partially) offscreen; were desensitized by the perpetrators being robots or usage fantasy weapons, etc.; and/or were undercut by jokes to create comic relief. In the TV series, Bulk's weapon is a laser gun, and he never actually shoots (although attempts to) anyone with it. In Ordeal of Fire, the Fire Villains, aside from Fire Lord, serve as goons as opposed to drug-addicted terrorists. Also, aside from what Fire Lord does to Furno in the comic, they don't really "smash" the heroes. Instead, they mostly shoot fireballs at stuff which oddly enough don't seem to really do any genuine damage. The line where Fire Lord comments on having fluids on his hands seems to be played more for laughs then anything else. Drilldozer's weapon is too fantastical enough to be threatening. Admittedly, Fire Lord's amputation was fairly gruesome, but afterwards he seemed more resigned than in actual pain. In Savage Planet, Witch Doctor's skull was made of stone, and the addition of Quaza Spikes to the animals likely wasn't painful, as getting them broken off certainly wasn't. It's hard to feel too sorry for the animals being forced to witness themselves do the Witch Doctor's bidding because he never really made them do anything that evil, just put Quaza in a box. They weren't forced to kill people or anything. Also, Rocka being "mauled" by wolves was not only totally offscreen, but he didn't seem all that hurt afterwards and he was back in the groove of things in a couple of minutes. In Breakout, Black Phantom or Voltix or Von Nebula or whoever you were referring to isn't homicidal at all (he doesn't kill a single person). Also, he wasn't trying to blow up the factory, but merely destroy the assembly tower to prevent the creation of more heroes. Splitface's goal wasn't necessarily to kill the civilians in the space stations, but to disable the structure itself to prevent communication through it, and he didn't short circuit, he was just knocked into an asteroid and seemed fine afterwards. Toxic Reapa's tactic, like much of the online material, never actually played out in any other media and is likely non-canon and irrelevant. Furno seemed totally fine despite everything Jawblade did to him. Stringer actually stated that being electrocuted by Voltix helped recharge his core. Now, I haven't read the books (I don't think they're out yet in America), but the Doom Box, conceptually, is so outlandish and cartoon-like that it doesn't seem very threatening. Besides, as the books (or at least Legion of Darkness) are prequels, there's no way the whole galaxy could actually be crushed, anyway. ...Although, how they handle Core Hunter is still fair game for more violent content. Interestingly, in the online material (which, as I said before, is still likely non-canon), they seem to be playing him somewhat more seriously than the other villains, so hopefully they actually will go the darker way out with this. We'll see pretty soon, since the new episode has apparently aired in Korea.

OK, this is going to devolve into a flame war pretty soon, so let me clarify. OBVIOUSLY robot violence=/=organic violence, OBVIOUSLY every character is a robot, OBVIOUSLY everything in the OP was greatly reduced on screen because it's for little kids, OBVIOUSLY if you wanted a horror story you would go watch a horror film. And yes, I was being slightly sarcastic and hyperbolic in the OP. I'm absolutely sick, however, of how BIONICLE fanboys get all butthurt over how the new LEGO constraction theme is too 'kiddy' compared to BIONICLE when it frigging isn't. No, we don't have a bot get bisected by a portal. But guess what? Even that, one of if not the most graphic scenes in BIONICLE canon (btw, it was on an obscure freaking podcast that very few actual little kids were going to find, so this was them being extravagant) was described solely as "The portal closed, Takanuva looked back, and was horrified by what he saw. Mercifully, death came quickly." So yeah, guys, very intense. So horrific. Talk about gore. I'd say watching Splitface writhe in agony with two disjointed screams coming from his mouth is way more graphic, even if it's not as actually painful as being cut in half. Also, that was shown in mainstream media, not a side podcast for AFOL nerds like us. My point is, other than the fact that we had deaths in BIONICLE and not yet in HF (and they may be coming up soon - I wouldn't be surprised if Thresher is killed or scrapped or whatever in the books), all the violence beyond kid friendly is left to the I agitation in both series, so if you want to write fanfiction, go nuts with the robo violence. Have bots tear each other lmb from limb. If you think official stuff is too light, read between the li ex like I did. Think, "If I was crushed under a poopload of steel girders and my lifesource is rapidly being drained hile a vicious and literally heartless killer is attepting to melt me, how would I feel?". And if no matter what you can't enjoy HF, whether forit's humor, refreshing episodic story after the multimedia monstrosity that BIONICLE became, or it's light to moderate undercurrents of violence, please please PLEASE don't come online and on plain about it. The vast majority of the fan base has gotten over it, including pretty much the entirety of BZP, and yet wherever I go there's a small bot vocal minority of Hate Dumb whining about how much HF sucks. I guess this was just a shock move on my part, so if the mods want to lock this they can, or. We can keep it open as a "Discuss the more Mature Parts of HF's story topic". I apologize for my slightly immature behavior and I hope we can all agree to have fun with HF and LEGO no matter how we do so. :)P.S. Sentient robots would totally have pain sensors in a robot dominated society. Otherwise they'd just be emotionless killing machines and wouldn't have a society. My theory is that pain programs are like that little battery symbol on your electronic that turns red when it's almost out of power, it's like a warning for bots to get themselves repaired o they don't keep fighting and get destroyed.P.P.S. Michael Bay's (cruddy) Transformers was totally about sentient robots beating each other and nobody seemed to think that wans't violent enough.

Here is where I addressed the issue. The first half of the post was me venting my frustration on the fact that people seemed to have missed the point of the topic, but I feel I kept myself under control throughout, and even apologized for my immaturity and said that if the mods tout this had too much potential to create bad feelings, they should by all means lock it. After this you stepped in for the first time, and I'm not sure whether because of my Wall of Text or the threat of administrative interference (probably the latter ) we all calmed down a good deal and continued to discuss the actual topic, as demonstrated by my next post, a lighthearted silly thing with a "colon P" emoticon to denote the silliness:

You mean Jaller glowed red for a couple seconds and fell to the floor.

I agree with your points about some of the fridge horror in Hero Factory, but I'm just as happy leaving it in the fridge. Many of the points you made, such as Fire Lord's hand being ripped off, would be horrific if not for the rules of the Hero Factory universe (Fire Lord is a robot, and if that had affected him like it would a human, he wouldn't have been able to shrug it off so easily). And while others are more legitimately dark, like Fire Lord and his cronies being obviously based on drug addiction and every single thing about Core Hunter, they're the kind of dark that wouldn't faze most kids. Moreover, the darkness of the series is offset by the humor, and the fact that pretty much every story arc culminates in a happy ending.And you know what? I'm okay with that. Bionicle may have been awesome for its continuous mysteries wrapped in enigmas, but not every Lego theme has to be Bionicle. Hero Factory's less serious nature appeals to me, and I'm sure it appeals to a great number of kids as well. Hero Factory doesn't need to be dark to be good. What it does need is better writing, with deeper and more consistent character development. I wouldn't mind if next year one of the villains is defeated by being tricked onto a souped up merry-go-round, so long as the heroes tricking them aren't making out-of-character jokes like Stringer's infamous "cattle-wrangling" quip from Savage Planet. What makes Hero Factory good, in my opinion, is the variety of both Hero and Villain characters, and the story should focus on making each of them more compelling. And if the story does take a darker turn, that's fine too, so long as the characters remain consistent and compelling.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the OP wants to point this out to compare both lines (because he seems to have a strange grudge against Bionicle fans), and HF is the successor to Bionicle. Those who compared both lines in response are only following in suit.

Here, it was perceived from an active poster in the topic that I had a grudge against BIONICLE, reopening the possibilities of hostility. This was also entirely my fault, as I was the one who originally used a couple minor comparisons between the two lines in the OP, which were mostly for humor value. (I didn't think anyone would take 'Did we have machine guns in BIONICLE' seriously, but in retrospect that obviously needed a laugh emoticon to go along with it to remove chances of mistaking it for an actual point)

Did you even read my second to latest post, KlakWest? You know, the one where I admitted hat I personally prefer HF just the way it is and I only posted this topic where I purposefully exaggerated the fridge horror solely for a shock move because I was tired of people complaining about HF, not because I think it needs to be dark? It honestly took me quite a while to find all the examples in the OP and I blew them way out of proportion. And I have also said that by far the majority of BZP has gotten over BIONICLE worship, but there are always people everywhere I go online that say Oh, HF =Power Rangers when it DOESN'T. Just because it's funny and about good guys fighting bad guys doesn't mean it's juvenile crud. The reason I posted this here is not because I have a grudge against BIONICLE fans, (which was rude of you to assume seeing as I explained all this in my post if you scroll up) in fact I AM a big BIONICLE fan, this was posted here for the benefit of the guys who go around posting stuff about how horrid HF is as a shock move, not because of my personal beliefs. Why did I post it here, on BZP, if I think it's one of the more mature communities? Because not only is it the largest BIONICLE site on the web, meaning some of those people will actually see this, but because I was hoping nobody her would allow it to devolve into a flame war of BIONICLE vs. HF. Which it has. Next time I'll post elsewhere. :/

This is my resignation post, where I felt the topic was going to be locked for sure. Again. This was me venting my frustration, this time at the fact that I had thought we'd gotten over the BIONICLE vs. HF debate. However, I also referred KW to my post where I explained my points so he could read them and hopefully reconsider his opinion on my 'grudge' against BIONICLE fans, without insulting him. I was slightly passive aggressive, though, and for that I apologize.

The OP does not have a grudge against Bionicle fans, he just would like to point out that Hero Factory isn't completely cheesy lines and watered-down action, like some Bionicle fans could believe, but do not necessarily. He is adressing a misconception that may or may not exist among us, but has the possibility to exist.Edit: @Xalen: Yes, I've seen a few posts about here knocking HF slightly for a shallow story...

This is by far the best post in the entire topic. An impartial third party stepped in and concisely explained my point to KW using the facts from my posts, and he did it perfectly and without letting his personal opinion, which he had expressed as different from both mine and KW's earlier, get involved. I would like to request that no matter what happens here fishers64 gets a proto boost, please.

I did, but I don't see how it makes me wrong in any way.

It honestly took me quite a while to find all the examples in the OP and I blew them way out of proportion.

Awesome, and you impressed me.

And I have also said that by far the majority of BZP has gotten over BIONICLE worship, but there are always people everywhere I go online that say Oh, HF =Power Rangers when it DOESN'T. Just because it's funny and about good guys fighting bad guys doesn't mean it's juvenile crud.

1. Liking Bionicle more than HF=/=Bionicle worship. 2. Just because someone disagrees with you on HF doesn't mean they think it's juvenile crud. And comparing it to Power Rangers isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the latter's popularity and fame.

The reason I posted this here is not because I have a grudge against BIONICLE fans, (which was rude of you to assume seeing as I explained all this in my post if you scroll up)

You angrily posted a negative reaction to Bionicle fans, saying that some worshipped the line. That seems like a grudge to me. Again, the key word is "seems", which you can see in my post above.

in fact I AM a big BIONICLE fan, this was posted here for the benefit of the guys who go around posting stuff about how horrid HF is as a shock move, not because of my personal beliefs. Why did I post it here, on BZP, if I think it's one of the more mature communities? Because not only is it the largest BIONICLE site on the web, meaning some of those people will actually see this, but because I was hoping nobody her would allow it to devolve into a flame war of BIONICLE vs. HF. Which it has. Next time I'll post elsewhere. :/

I clearly appreciated your topic, that's not the point here, you are misunderstanding me. And it really wouldn't have descended into a flame war had dotcom and everyone else refused to get angry over a silly comparison that I made.

Anyone can read anything into anything. If you prefer to read HF as dark and gritty, that's your opinion...Personally, that interpretation in the OP made me feel like HF was making fun of robot-mauling situations, however. Quite disturbing. Although I guess threats to the galaxy could be a whole lot worse than the mild offscreen ineffective wolf-mauling in Hero Factory.

Indeed.

I never got into any HF content story-wise, dismissing it simply as another LEGO's series that has a crippled storyline.Speaking of violence, how is BIONICLE not violent? Jallar was brutally murdered by a Turahk, and Makuta was crushed by a gaint door and had greenish gas leaking out of him. That's quite disturbing imo.

It is, which is my whole point. OP compared them, and I pointed out how while HF might have had a speck of grittiness, it still hadn't reached Bionicle level grittiness. I don't know why people, specifically the OP, get so upset over that mere disagreement. And yet we're the melancholic ones?

Bionicle didn't reach "Bionicle level grittiness" for a long time, though. That's something you persistently decide to ignore.

The OP ignored it, so I ignored it. Like I said, I was following suit. That is a fact that you persistently decide to ignore.

I agree with your points about some of the fridge horror in Hero Factory, but I'm just as happy leaving it in the fridge. Many of the points you made, such as Fire Lord's hand being ripped off, would be horrific if not for the rules of the Hero Factory universe (Fire Lord is a robot, and if that had affected him like it would a human, he wouldn't have been able to shrug it off so easily). And while others are more legitimately dark, like Fire Lord and his cronies being obviously based on drug addiction and every single thing about Core Hunter, they're the kind of dark that wouldn't faze most kids. Moreover, the darkness of the series is offset by the humor, and the fact that pretty much every story arc culminates in a happy ending.And you know what? I'm okay with that. Bionicle may have been awesome for its continuous mysteries wrapped in enigmas, but not every Lego theme has to be Bionicle. Hero Factory's less serious nature appeals to me, and I'm sure it appeals to a great number of kids as well. Hero Factory doesn't need to be dark to be good. What it does need is better writing, with deeper and more consistent character development. I wouldn't mind if next year one of the villains is defeated by being tricked onto a souped up merry-go-round, so long as the heroes tricking them aren't making out-of-character jokes like Stringer's infamous "cattle-wrangling" quip from Savage Planet. What makes Hero Factory good, in my opinion, is the variety of both Hero and Villain characters, and the story should focus on making each of them more compelling. And if the story does take a darker turn, that's fine too, so long as the characters remain consistent and compelling.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the OP wants to point this out to compare both lines (because he seems to have a strange grudge against Bionicle fans), and HF is the successor to Bionicle. Those who compared both lines in response are only following in suit.

The OP does not have a grudge against Bionicle fans, he just would like to point out that Hero Factory isn't completely cheesy lines and watered-down action, like some Bionicle fans could believe, but do not necessarily. He is adressing a misconception that may or may not exist among us, but has the possibility to exist.Edit: @Xalen: Yes, I've seen a few posts about here knocking HF slightly for a shallow story...

It seemed like he did, that's why I said the word "seems". If he didn't, then no worries. Like I said earlier, his topic was surprising in pointing out these things.

And KW responded to fishers64 PERFECTLY. He explained his stance, why he thought I had a grudge, addressed all points made towards him in a concise, cal , and mature manner, and apologized and attempted to make amends with me at the end. (Just for the record, I think you've handled yourself admirably in this situation, KW, and I have zero hard feelings towards you. )

Xalen, you need to calm down. This is the second time I've had to post in this topic. If I have to come here again, it will be to close it.

So in conclusion, I believe that if this topic needs to be closed it will be an unfortunate necessity, but I personally believe we have an excellent opportunity for debate and discussion here now that our issues with each other have been resolved, and would like to see this opportunity taken. Either way. However, is perfectly understandable and I will respect your decision no matter what and will take full responsibility for this argument, including proto loss if needs be. Thank you very much for your time and I apologize for creating the need for you to step in not once, but twice.

[Stryker055]

It's about as dark as your average episode of Spongebob.

[Delta Titan Sparta]

When it's put that way, you've got a point, Xalen. I don't think the ripping-the-heart-out-and-wearing-it-as-a-trophy thing was in Bionicle. An excellent argument.

[Klak]

And KW responded to fishers64 PERFECTLY. He explained his stance, why he thought I had a grudge, addressed all points made towards him in a concise, cal , and mature manner, and apologized and attempted to make amends with me at the end. (Just for the record, I think you've handled yourself admirably in this situation, KW, and I have zero hard feelings towards you. )

*bows* Thanks, no hard feelings towards you either. Sorry if I seemed strange.

It's about as dark as your average episode of Spongebob.

But you're Batman! Nothing's dark for you! Edited August 17, 2012 by KlakWest

[toa kopaka4372]

No, I don't really see HF as dark, but then again, it doesn't need to be. It's supposed to be silly, and that's fine, although I wish its story were less predictable and the stakes were higher. Thankfully Breakout seems to be remedying these problems somewhat.Also, 'd like to point out that violence alone does not necessarily equal "dark". By that logic Tom&Jerry is one of the violent shows out there.

Edited August 18, 2012 by toa kopaka4372

[~Shockwave~]

here's the thing. i really don't think Hf is dark. story wise, it's ok, but bionicle had a better story. (so far, i doubt it will change, but who knows)that being said, we must look at how the violence is handled, not the violence itself. lets take a few examples from various fiction:in prime, in the first five minutes a character dies. why is this important? for one, you got to watch the entire thing, no moving the camera at the point where cliff was stabbed. you see it all. and if you listen to the music in most of the series, that really helps bring it out. most of it is dark, or at best solemn. and in ninjago, the music is not really bright and shiny, but it's more upbeat. like most of the series. and some of that music is powerful.where in hf, if i remember correctly, the music can only be described as bright and shiny. and that makes all the difference in the world. why are horror movies scary? listen to the score. pairing minor tones with horror sets a terrifying mood. change the music and you have a horror movie that cannot be taken seriously. not to mention you don't see any of that. if you aren't seeing the violence to bright and shiny music, it makes for a much different feeling than the one you get from a show like prime.but that's okay, hero factory isn't supposed to be violent. it's a kids show. kid shows aren't generally violent.it's not that hf haters hate it because it's kiddy. the ones you talk about hate it because it's not bionicle. no amount of violence will change that. they just grab on to the most common reason.in summery: violence is not the answer. [/rant]

[Athmos]

Psssshhhh..... In my opinion, that ain't dark. Or horror. Or whatever anyone wants to call it. It's entertainment.

[UltToaNovaJoshNova]

Bionicle is god compared to hero factory. I don't care what you say but listen hero factory is not dark and gritty. it is a horrible excuse for a replacement. It is kidish compared to bionicle it is random has no clear storyline and it lacks good taste in heroes and villians.

[Velox]

Please remember to check the date of the last post in a topic before posting: the revival limit in LEGO Discussion is 30 days, as per the Rules.

 

Topic revived; topic closed.