BZPRPG News and Discussion

[25K Now!]

 

We should at least try to get a start on that Jurassic Park thing we were planning with the Kanohi Dragon eggs. 

 

I am wondering how this could in any way go well.

 

Science and dragons will always go well.

[Voxumo]

... Hmm. A whole clan of organized crime. That... actually works quite well, really. A darker take on the Dasaka's Three Virtues...

 

And I do so love deconstructing those.

While not exactly a clan of organized crime, you do have Clan Vadiru which essentially at least works in Assassination and Theft... If you know the proper contacts of course. Just sayin.

[Timageness]

I predict a sudden influx of Dasaka who are missing parts of their fingers in the near future...

Interestingly enough, I have a Rahkshi over in Corpus who recently started doing something similar as well, though he takes the whole finger.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Timageness

[Keeper of Kraata]

Well, Maripi has a head start for missing fingers...

[Let's Henshin!]

Somehow Kelh managed to escaped with all his intact. 

 

And all this talk about Dasaka is another reminder that I need to finish my clan.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Sora Tryon

[25K Now!]

Somehow Kelh managed to escaped with all his intact. 

 

And all this talk about Dasaka is another reminder that I need to finish my clan.

You'll never finish it.

[Mel]

at least keep with the theme and have it be yakuza

 

Yakuza really aren't significantly different from any organized crime elsewhere though.

[Keeper of Kraata]

Except for the whole 'so formal they have business cards and offices' thing. That's pretty unique.

[Highly Suspicious Person]

Nah, the Yakuza are much more official and generally have a better reputation. Mainly due to the relief and recovery work they do whenever Japan has a big earthquake.

 

Kentoku natural disaster when?

[Keeper of Kraata]

A problem I see is that Kentoku still has a feudal society somewhat, which doesn't really work for Yakuza-type organizations, as that is what they grew out of.

[Palm]

I'm sorry for my strong inactivity. I'mean really feeling overwhelmed by my courses right now and I need to prioritize those things.

 

I'll be caught up soon!

[Keeper of Kraata]

Plans? Pffft, who needs them?

 

So yeah, Ko-Koro amulet-getters, that's a thing that's happening. I'm going to hold off on posting as Fyura again until Toa Fanixe posts again.

[Nato G]

Something I've seen pop up a few times that always been curious about: why is Makuta worship considered a crime? 

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Because it is Sacrilege. Makuta being the embodiment of all evil and wrong. Anyone who worships him would be in turn evil... Thus Criminal against all that the great spirit stands for. It would be like saying Down with the Queen while living in England or wanting to assassinate the President and all he stands for, Or that's how I see it anyway.

[Nato G]

Not true. There are numerous Makuta Worshiping characters in this game who are actually quite nice people, but they either keep their beliefs a secret, or get treated like scum because of them.

 

It seems a little unfair that the entire religion is discriminated against because of the extremists.  

[Prowl Nightwolf]

lol, yeah I guess one could see it that way. Though the public at large may not and based on the concept of your question do not see it that way. Think of it them maybe along the lines of the Salem Witch Trials. While it is possible that there could of been actual witches back then; It is more likely what the puritans believed to be witchcraft was likely some form of herbology or whatever you'd call our modem medicinal practices back then. So when one was thought of being a witch and therefore a devil worshiper they were punished for their crime and I believe burned at the steak. So most kept their beliefs a secret.

[Nato G]

The way I see it, it shouldn't be a crime to choose to believe in a being who clearly does exist, especially when you take into consideration that there's actually a lot more evidence for Makuta's existence than Mata Nui's. 

 

Now, killing and destroying because of belief in Makuta, that's criminal. But I don't see why worshiping him is. 

[Prowl Nightwolf]

well remember that Makuta is inherently evil. So anything associated with him is believed to be as well. The guy attacked the residence of Mata Nui. It would be like aligning yourself with a terrorist cell or something. Yeah you may think it is wrong as you are a nice guy/gal and all but guess what? you picked the wrong side and in this land will be punished for it. It doesn't matter of you are Gandhi and wouldn't hurt a fly. That is why it is a crime to worship or follow Makuta. This has been true all through history and apparently surfaces here. Though can you blame them? Is it right? Well flip the coin and one side says "yes" while the other will always hold true to "no".

[Nato G]

Yeah you may think it is wrong as you are a nice guy/gal and all but guess what?

 

you picked the wrong side 

 

You mean the side who recently took over an entire Koro?

[Geardirector]

It seems a little unfair that the entire religion is discriminated against because of the extremists.  

 

Those aren't the extremists, they're the norm. It's the pacifists and "nice" Makuta worshippers who are the irregular ones.

 

Makuta is an evil god, who on top of that does in fact exist beyond a shadow of a doubt. He has, on numerous occasions, attacked and terrorized the populations of Mata Nui. To worship him is not the same as having a different religion is in our world, because you can't make the arguement that, say, the Islamic God has in fact commited terrible acts against real people.

 

To say that discrimination against Makuta worshippers is unfair because real-life religious discrimination is unfair is a false equivalence.

[Timageness]

I was going to post my opinion on this, but every time I start writing, another post pops up that I'd had to reply to.

[25K Now!]

Of course people aren't going to like you if you affiliate yourself with that guy who basically ruined everyone's lives for centuries.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

 

Yeah you may think it is wrong as you are a nice guy/gal and all but guess what?

 

you picked the wrong side 

 

You mean the side who recently took over an entire Koro?

 

 

lol, Yeah nobody said they were not strong. Though taking a whole Koro hostage is not exactly the best means of showing the good of Makuta worshipers. Also I think jacking a whole Koro falls under the mantel of crime that should be punished. Can someone be drawn and quartered on here or would that be too graphic for the younger audience?

[Nato G]

Did you stop to consider that perhaps they took over the Koro because they weren't accepted in any of the others? 

[Geardirector]

Right, because invading a city and enslaving its population just because they don't want you there is a great idea.

[25K Now!]

Did you stop to consider that perhaps they took over the Koro because they weren't accepted in any of the others? 

No, because they took over the Koro due to being power-hungry maniacs.

 

I know you like playing the devil's advocate and all that jazz, but Makuta worshippers as a whole are Chaotic Evil with maybe a Lawful Evil or two sprinkled in there.

[Nato G]

Right, because invading a city and enslaving its population just because they don't want you there is a great idea.

 

Now this was before my time, but didn't the Makuta worshipers once have a city of their own? One city, as opposed to the six that everyone else has. Then someone went and blew that up. 

 

So yeah, I can't really fault them for wanting to take over a place. 

 

I know you like playing the devil's advocate and all that jazz, but Makuta worshippers as a whole are Chaotic Evil with maybe a Lawful Evil or two sprinkled in there.

 

Oh, I'm well aware of that. 

 

But I still don't see how it justifies the worship of Makuta being treated as a criminal offence. 

[25K Now!]

 

Right, because invading a city and enslaving its population just because they don't want you there is a great idea.

 

Now this was before my time, but didn't the Makuta worshipers once have a city of their own? One city, as opposed to the six that everyone else has. Then someone went and blew that up. 

 

So yeah, I can't really fault them for wanting to take over a place. 

 

I know you like playing the devil's advocate and all that jazz, but Makuta worshippers as a whole are Chaotic Evil with maybe a Lawful Evil or two sprinkled in there.

 

Oh, I'm well aware of that. 

 

But I still don't see how it justifies the worship of Makuta being treated as a criminal offence. 

 

No. They didn't have a city of their own. They never had a city of their own. Xa-koro was just Mata Nui's Mos Eisley.

 

So you can fault them for being crazy murderous maniacs.

 

And that's why it's justified. Because if you worship the Makuta, you're worshipping a diabolical entity that has been responsible for possibly thousands innocent deaths, the destruction of several locations (Snelly's Kingdom, KNI's Jianheim, Pala-koro), the corruption of the heroes that were to save the island, and all other sorts of horrible ######. And that's not taking into account what the large majority of (incredibly well-organised) worshippers do in their spare time (aka incredibly evil stuff).

 

Oh, but there are some that don't do evil ######, you might say. Yeah, I have a Makuta worshipper who doesn't really do ###### but drink tea, but he's still an evil twat. That's why he's a worshipper of the Makuta in the first place. Evil people worship the God of Evil. It's sort of the thing. And even if you aren't actively evil, you're supporting people who do evil.

 

By worshipping Makkybro, you've become an accomplice to his crimes and the crimes committed in his name by his myriad followers.

 

It's like funding terrorists. That's illegal. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Umi Tryon

[Nato G]

By worshipping Makkybro, you've become an accomplice to his crimes and the crimes committed in his name by his myriad followers.

 

It's like funding terrorists. That's illegal. 

 

Hm.... I hadn't considered that angle. I concede that you may have a point there. 

[Ghosthands]

Did you stop to consider that perhaps they took over the Koro because they weren't accepted in any of the others?

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-31074-J-Jonah-Jameson-laughing-gif-S-NWLY.gif

Edited March 6, 2015 by -Windrider-

[shadow pridak money gang]

ITT: victim complexing the worship of a guy who turned the six destined heroes of the island into rapists and murderers 

 

glad to see you have your head on straight ( :

 

-Tyler

[Constructelf]

Something I've seen pop up a few times that always been curious about: why is Makuta worship considered a crime?

This is the way I've always seen it.

 

Imagine you're in France during the Revolution. What happened to people who supported the Royals there?

 

Now, imagine if Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, and the nobility really all were colossal ebags and Maximilian Robespierre didn't go off his rocker and instate the Great Terror down the line.

 

Or just imagine any notably inept or malicious ruler ever that got ousted by a revolution motivated by just causes rather than political gain.

 

To the side of the revolutionaries, those people that they overthrew symbolizes all the they had to go through over the years, and by supporting those tyrants, not only are you condoning their crimes but you're also discrediting the principles of the revolution and the efforts of the people that participated in it. And Mata Nui help you if you're in a land that doesn't have a blanket law protecting free speech.

 

Finally, take into consideration that unlike those inept and malicious rulers who were still human, Makuta is essentially the embodiment of evil with (almost?) no redeeming traits. Unlike Mussolini, Makuta did not have a mother.

Edited March 6, 2015 by One-Eyed Construct

[25K Now!]

Makuta's only redeeming quality is his flair.

[Constructelf]

Something else I realized.

 

States and other political entities will do what is in their best interest. And given that the ideology of Makutaism has been consistently shown to cause chaos and destruction, it is in the best interests of the Koros to suppress it through the vehicles of censorship, laws banning it, and counterterrorism for the sake of maintaining order and public security; given that personal liberty doesn't seem to be as big of a thing in Mata Nui than say, in the USA, the Akiri can get away with more of these measures.

 

If you still can't agree that what they're doing by outlying Makutaism is right, at least view it from the context of realpolitik.

[Razgriz]

Never a dull moment here with all the sharp minds in here

 

Always on the cutting EDGE of morality

 

 

 

I hope I'm being clear enough with my coy wordplay if not let me know

[Palm]

I won't pretend to speak for every follower, as they all might try to justify taking Ko in their own way, but I can speak for Nightfall (with maybe SOME exception) that they took power in the name of Makuta in a bid for political, social, and military strength to further their plans. Not because they're angry for losing Xa-Koro.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Isn't that basically what I have been saying? So how come when thy all say it, it gets through? Eh all well. The truth gets out one way or the other. doesn't really matter if I am its catalyst or not.

[sunflower]

Should be good to note that not everyone on the other side of the line are Makuta Worshipers per se.  Many will be there just for power, the ability to destroy stuff, or because they like being on the winning side.  Makuta himself is either just bonus, or has nothing to do with it.

[Keeper of Kraata]

In other news, the Ga-Koro Amulet expedition is coming along... swimmingly.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Oh that was so bad... I see you changed your name and Avatar... Interesting.