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Unpopular opinion time

Necro

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Having now actually looked at the reborted Bioniceties, I'll be perfectly honest: I am really disappointed.

 

The masks look less like magical artifacts and more like a cross between an industrial welder's mask and a goalie's facemask, the armor looks less like Lego and more like Megablocks, the hand pieces look even more ridiculous than they did a few years ago(Want some cool Bionicle hands? Look no further than Axonn's giant four-fingered maulers. Otherwise these did just fine without looking like painted Hulk Hands), and as far as I can tell there's no actual internal intricacy or interesting design, it's 90% molded plastic pieces made specifically for that set which simplify the design, and a bunch of ball joints for what basically amounts to a build-it-yourself action figure rather than a building set or something interesting. The only thing I'm really that pleased about is making Pohatu brown instead of making him grey or black or whatever they had started making the Po-sets.

 

I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but for me personally, this is a letdown. I was expecting a return to old form, and it looks like it's just dressing the new standard up in nostalgic clothes. Hoping someone that actually saw them can correct me(Some rear pics would be great since that might give more insight to how they're constructed).

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I had the exact same thoughts. I was just fearful that I would get absolutely demolished on the forums for saying it. :P

 

-Rez

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Not sure what's wrong with the hand pieces. Your comparison with Axonn's hands is totally out of place anyway, or would you expect those hands to be used for the Toa? Internal intricacy? The gear functions have more intricacy than any other BIONICLE canister set I can think of. As far as this is concerned:

 

 

it's 90% molded plastic pieces made specifically for that set which simplify the design

What? Have you even looked at the sets? Apart from weapons, head/mask, one new armor piece and the gearbox piece (which seems to be a Technic piece that will surely find other uses), they don't even have new parts - it's all extremely versatile parts we already had from Hero Factory, though there are quite a few recolours.

 

-Gata signoff.png

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the armor looks less like Lego and more like Megablocks

There.

 

There it is. The inevitable comparison to MegaBloks.

 

I can now rest in peace.

 

-TNTOS-

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I disagree with many of your assessments, but then again I've seen the sets in person, know how intricate and diverse they are, and even own a figure built from many of the new parts. Maybe when reviews show up it'll change your opinion.

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Not sure what's wrong with the hand pieces. Your comparison with Axonn's hands is totally out of place anyway, or would you expect those hands to be used for the Toa? Internal intricacy? The gear functions have more intricacy than any other BIONICLE canister set I can think of.

 

I was using Axonn's hands as an example of the only "realistic" Bionicle hands that I've actually been fond of, not to say that those should be on every single one of them. And as far as I can tell from the photos I've seen - which again, have all been straight-on and from the front - there are no gear functions, so I was unaware of their existence, hence this line:

 

 

 

Some rear pics would be great since that might give more insight to how they're constructed

 

 

 

 

 

What? Have you even looked at the sets? Apart from weapons, head/mask, one new armor piece and the gearbox piece (which seems to be a Technic piece that will surely find other uses), they don't even have new parts - it's all extremely versatile parts we already had from Hero Factory, though there are quite a few recolours.

 

Yes, I have looked at them. And with the front-only photos that I have seen, it just looks like a basic technic skeleton covered in gigantic pieces of armor, primarily oversized chestplates and shoulderplates. Maybe I'm out of the loop because every time I've browsed through the lego aisle, none of the Hero Factory sets felt worth their price to me, so I have never bought any of them, but I'm just giving my impressions.

 

 

I disagree with many of your assessments, but then again I've seen the sets in person, know how intricate and diverse they are, and even own a figure built from many of the new parts. Maybe when reviews show up it'll change your opinion.

 

And there's the issue. Everyone that seems to think otherwise has seen them in-person, whereas the internet is all that is available to me for their designs, and the photos that are online aren't the most helpful in the world. People are saying they're great, but those same people on here praised the sets that I really lost interest in. And there's nothing wrong with that, if people like that, more power to them, it means they're having more fun than me. But when the people going "This is really great" also said that about things I didn't like, and the only photos I can find suggest it's a thing I won't like, what reason do I have to think otherwise?

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If you think the armor looks more like Mega Bloks than LEGO, I suspect you're a little fuzzy on the differences between Mega Bloks and LEGO.

 

Mega Bloks regularly introduces highly-detailed, limited-use new parts purely for freshness and aesthetics, rather than using more versatile parts that are designed for years and years of functional applications. LEGO is characterized by building things from much more basic existing parts, and when it DOES introduce new parts, they are usually designed to be useful for more than one application. Just compare the Mega Bloks Pirates of the Caribbean sets with the LEGO Pirates of the Caribbean theme. The set with the water wheel is an example that stands out.

 

Mega Bloks parts also often have a matte finish, sometimes with a slightly oily consistency. LEGO parts, by contrast, tend to be very shiny and have a smooth consistency. This image is a good comparison. If anything, the new BIONICLE sets feel more like actual LEGO than BIONICLE sets ever have in the past.

 

Of course, you DO call the new sets "90% molded plastic pieces made specifically for that set which simplify the design", which is way more true of classic BIONICLE than it is of the new BIONICLE. Over 50% of the parts AND part designs in each Bohrok were custom-tailored for building Bohrok, and many of those parts like the frame pieces for the torso and head, the Krana holders, both new types of gear, and several of the shields were hardly ever used for building anything OTHER than Bohrok.

 

In contrast, the new Tahu includes just twelve new parts in six new designs, out of 89 parts total. Only the Kanohi Hau is not shared with any other character. And only the lavaboard pieces are shared with ONLY one other character. The other new parts — his head, eyes, gearbox, and piston detail element — are all used by between five and eleven other characters from this first wave alone. And these are not sets that come in groups of six identical sets like Bohrok, Bohrok Va, and Bohrok-Kal. These are sets that have more diverse proportions, armor, and equipment than most series of Toa and Matoran, and more "internal intricacy" than any series of Toa or Matoran has ever had.

 

Maybe my Flickr album will clear up some things. But it's also possible that the issue isn't just the images you've seen but how you're looking at them.

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Admittedly the Megablocks comparison was probably a bit off the mark. The armor pieces just look so streamlined and so "clean", for lack of a better word, that my first thought was to their heavy use of specific molded pieces.

 

Maybe I'm just being a bit cynical, but the difference with those is that there was some versatility in them; the Toa Mata bodies had well over a dozen sockets to attach parts to on them, even if they only used about seven of them. The Bohrok body pieces only used five but had eight(There was also a functional purpose to their design, the ability to roll into a ball). As far as I've been able to tell up to this point, the new sets were exactly the same as the past few Toa sets that I just got bored with; a skinny technic skeleton with some molded armor pieces attached by a two-stud rod. That said though, there's clearly some sort of gear function in the backs of them, though nobody has mentioned any of that until now so I have no idea what it is. There's also more complexity than the front suggests.

 

I suppose I'll be cautiously optimistic, but I'm hesitant any time something is being rebooted. For every Dark Knight trilogy, there's a Transformers saga that makes Bad Dudes vs. Dragon Ninja look like a masterpiece of storytelling. For every Captain America, there's a Pink Panther. I can't trust a reboot until I can see it in-person.

 

I am still not a fan of the molded hands though. Constantly clenched fists lack any sort of expression, at least with the old ones there was some interpretation, and they were much more versatile.

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I suppose I'll be cautiously optimistic, but I'm hesitant any time something is being rebooted. For every Dark Knight trilogy, there's a Transformers saga that makes Bad Dudes vs. Dragon Ninja look like a masterpiece of storytelling.

What I got from this is that they should reboot Bad Dudes vs. Dragon Ninja to try and make it better.

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Admittedly the Megablocks comparison was probably a bit off the mark. The armor pieces just look so streamlined and so "clean", for lack of a better word, that my first thought was to their heavy use of specific molded pieces.

 

Maybe I'm just being a bit cynical, but the difference with those is that there was some versatility in them; the Toa Mata bodies had well over a dozen sockets to attach parts to on them, even if they only used about seven of them. The Bohrok body pieces only used five but had eight(There was also a functional purpose to their design, the ability to roll into a ball). As far as I've been able to tell up to this point, the new sets were exactly the same as the past few Toa sets that I just got bored with; a skinny technic skeleton with some molded armor pieces attached by a two-stud rod.

 

That said though, there's clearly some sort of gear function in the backs of them, though nobody has mentioned any of that until now so I have no idea what it is. There's also more complexity than the front suggests.

The Toa Mata torsos had 18 connection points, yes. The 7x9 Hero Factory torso beams used for most of the Toa have twelve, and the 9x9 ones like Onua uses have 14. It's not a huge difference all things considered — it's just that the Toa Mata torso used pin holes and axle holes, while the Hero Factory torso beams use pin holes and ball joints.

 

Have you really not figured out how the gear functions work? I'd think with as much extensive reporting and discussion as there's been you'd have seen it mentioned SOMEWHERE (or been able to discern it yourself from photos). But yes, the design of the gear functions is brilliant.

 

For starters, all the Toa use the type of 3x3 knob gears that were used for sets like the Ussanui or Boxor. The difference between the angle of one gear and the angle of the gear it meshes with is always exactly 45 degrees. This is in many cases a lot more convenient than the old gears that you had to carefully line up if you wanted the characters' shoulder joints to both have a vertical resting position.

 

In addition to all that, the shoulders themselves are attached via ball joints, so you can put them in any pose without having to remove the arms and change the position of the gears. Thanks to the ball joint with through hole (which was introduced during BIONICLE's run) and the 4M axle with end stop (which wasn't introduced until later), these ball joints won't pop off as easily as a ball joint without a through hole would back in the days when people were trying to increase the articulation of their Toa Metru.

 

The Toa use a new Technic beam piece rather than an enclosed gearbox. It's five modules wide, six modules tall, and two modules thick. Here is a render of it by a Eurobricks user. Like the 9x7 torso beam, it has twelve attachment points.

 

Another great thing about the new gear functions is they have friction, so any character who uses them can hold a pose with their arms raised without the arms falling right back down due to gravity. The same member who created the render above also created this mock-up of how many of them incorporate friction using small eight-tooth gears and friction pins. Lewa does it slightly different by incorporating the gears and friction pin between his shoulders and armpit, since the way his shoulders are raised would cause the design in this illustration to collide with the neck joint.

 

Also, Onua's giant hammer is too heavy for a mere friction pin to allow him to hold a pose, so in his case the small gears and friction pin are dropped entirely and he instead has Y-joints and ball joints with through holes attached to the 3M sides of the beam. Sort of like how the original Toa Kaita Akamai and Wairuha each used a ball joint on their crotch to add friction to the bottom gearbox, so their legs didn't just swing freely.

 

This picture I took during the event shows all six sets, and it's easy to see the gearboxes on a lot of the sets. Pohatu and Gali each only have one arm geared, while most of the others have both arms geared (except maybe Kopaka, I honestly forget whether both of his arms are geared).

 

A lot of the characters even include armor of some kind for their lower back. Lewa's is particularly clever, using one of these and one of the same talon pieces he uses on his shoulders. It provides good coverage and is nice and streamlined.

 

Feel free to ask me any other questions you might have! Not only was I actually there at the event, but since I was allowed to bring home a MOC built from the new pieces, I actually have those at my fingertips for reference, and once I'm home I'll even be able to take more pictures for you. You can also look at my photo gallery right here.

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I suppose I'll be cautiously optimistic, but I'm hesitant any time something is being rebooted. For every Dark Knight trilogy, there's a Transformers saga that makes Bad Dudes vs. Dragon Ninja look like a masterpiece of storytelling.

What I got from this is that they should reboot Bad Dudes vs. Dragon Ninja to try and make it better.

 

 

I would buy a Bad Dudes vs. Dragon Ninja reboot in a heartbeat. There is no other dude I trust to be bad enough to save President Ronnie.

 

 

*Big ol' bit of text*

 

Bravo sir, you have managed to, for the time being, sway my opinion. Still need to see them in-person before I'm totally sold, but I am at the least excited now. I am very happy to be, by outward appearances, wrong on this one.

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