Oh, quite well-said indeed. I've always thought the Toa (barring the Hordika) should use standard human proportions and then work off of those for interest.

For instance, the original Toa had very close to perfect human proportions – shoulders eight studs wide (going by the ball placement here), hips five. That gave material to work off of – Kopaka and Lewa had thin shoulders, giving them a lighter appearance, while Onua's hunch emphasized his shoulders even though they were no wider than Tahu or Gali's. Then, of course, you had Pohatu, whose proportions were flipped – but they still looked fine. All of them had torsoes three studs deep, plus their gears and chest adornments.

Flash forward to the Toa Mahri. Hips – five; shoulders – eleven on five of them, fifteen on Kongu. Chest depths – three on Nuparu; two on Hahli, Hewkii, and Kongu; more on Matoro due to his hunch; and Jaller was the only one with a reasonable depth, thanks to his crab armor. Proportion-wise, there's no getting around any of this, especially not Kongu's.

And don't even think about how long their limbs are. Kongu's length is the only one that would have approached realism on any of the others...

As Rayg put it nicely in the Tanma review talkback, if you're building something that's basically human, make it look like one. Start with basic 5-7-3 proportions, then work from there – i.e. give Onua wider shoulders (perhaps the 11 width) to evoke strength, then maybe a torso with only standard depth and thinner shoulders for a Toa like Lewa, who is light and fast rather than heavy and bulky.

Mutant Toa? Alter things; if they've become part animal, give them animalistic proportions. (Hewkii's monkey arms and tiny legs... *shudder*) Villains? Go wild if they aren't basically human. (The Piraka, for instance, we so animalistic that their wide and hunched shoulders worked well.)

But for Mata Nui's sake make the Toa actually have accurate proportions.

ToM, yes, the arms have grown longer as well.

If you look at standard humans, standing up, our hands almost reach our knees, so the same should be done for Bionicle.

-CF

At the end of the day, you have to realize that these are not human. That means they don't have to look anthing like them...

So if humans were squat and thin bodied, would you then want the sets to be the same because that's what humans look like?

Half the stuff the toa and matoran etc. do anyway isn't human at all, so why should the bodies be?

At the end of the day, you have to realize that these are not human. That means they don't have to look anthing like them...

 

So if humans were squat and thin bodied, would you then want the sets to be the same because that's what humans look like?

 

Half the stuff the toa and matoran etc. do anyway isn't human at all, so why should the bodies be?

These sets are marketed to humans, correct? Humans are(I think) more likely to pick that which resembles them.

Therefore, logic dictates that sets with human proportions should sell better.

And isn't that all Lego cares about; selling better?

~D

Because the way the Nuva Phantoka have things, it looks absolutely terrible?

There's a way to alter proportions to non-human standards and have it still look good. Usually, that involves many other things on the entity in question being non-human. However, the Toa are entirely human in shape, making the broad, flat chest and ludicrous ape-arms look just bad.

As Rayg put it, if something doesn't have human proportions, it will have the proportions of some other animal, and the Toa are, in real-world standards, humans, not other animals.

At the end of the day, you have to realize that these are not human. That means they don't have to look anthing like them...

 

So if humans were squat and thin bodied, would you then want the sets to be the same because that's what humans look like?

 

Half the stuff the toa and matoran etc. do anyway isn't human at all, so why should the bodies be?

These sets are marketed to humans, correct? Humans are(I think) more likely to pick that which resembles them.

 

Therefore, logic dictates that sets with human proportions should sell better.

 

And isn't that all Lego cares about; selling better?

 

 

~D

It would be an interesting thing to check out... but I don't see kids which Lego is shooting for, realy caring about if the anatomy of a human = the exact same structue of a Toa. It never crossed my mind until I was a teen.

Kids like new things that stand out. A wierd shape or four arms may catch their eye more than something standard or expected.

I could be wrong though.... this would be an interesting study.

See, going for something even remotely similar to humans was the problem in the first place. Quadroped robots should be used. And when I say Quadbots, I mean like the Quadroped Robots in Metroid Prime Two, not Vahki in Quad form. I'll try to get a picture of what I mean.

Or like Tachikoma.

~D

Tachikoma? I'll have to see what that is...

Yeah, not exactly what I pictured, but they work, too.

Rather, I was picturing something like this. Emphasis on the small, near sphere body, the helmet head and the segmented legs. Wait, that's the whole thing.

Har. My big gripe has always been with the long arms in proportion to legs. Maybe the Inika weren't that bad, but when the arm pieces grew longer than the legs...

Anyhow, interesting read.

Tachikoma? I'll have to see what that is...

 

Yeah, not exactly what I pictured, but they work, too.

 

Rather, I was picturing something like this. Emphasis on the small, near sphere body, the helmet head and the segmented legs. Wait, that's the whole thing.

I don't play video games, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

But that pic is pretty rad. MOC it.

Nidhiki was a quadreped. I wouldn't mind more quadrepeds. The Visorak had four legs. Hmm, it'd be cool to have four legged bad guys, with a chest and arms...or just legs like that pic.

Har. My big gripe has always been with the long arms in proportion to legs. Maybe the Inika weren't that bad, but when the arm pieces grew longer than the legs...

 

Anyhow, interesting read.

 

Yes, IMO, for legs and arms, the limb pieces are either 7 or 8 studs long, and the standard joints are 5 or 7 long. (unless custom MOCing) Either joint will work with the 8 length for a leg, but shouldn't be used as an arm, almost never IMO. (That means you Lewa and Kopaka Phantoka!) I also think a 7 joint and a 7 leg looks bad for legs (but I think it's OK for legs, or at least too late to stop it.)

Hmm, perhaps I'm digging myself into a hole. Just go and MOC....

Hoorah!

 

If only...

 

Maybe with the *censored* we'll get new bodies.

 

 

BtB

"censored"? Um, summer? Or next year? I don't know....(maybe that's good)

-CF

Is there any reason why they should have human proportions? Is there any reason that a bipedal being should be forced to conform to our shape and build? I'm not sure if there's any evidence that the target audience actually desires a being with perfectly human proportions - for all we know, they may actually prefer beings with exaggerated shoulders, long arms, and relatively flat bodies.

I'm simply curious to hear your reasoning behind this .

@ChocoFro: I'm pretty sure the censored word was the Summer group name, correct?

Edit: I has an offer for you, CF, in my latest blog entry.

Is there any reason why they should have human proportions? Is there any reason that a bipedal being should be forced to conform to our shape and build? I'm not sure if there's any evidence that the target audience actually desires a being with perfectly human proportions - for all we know, they may actually prefer beings with exaggerated shoulders, long arms, and relatively flat bodies.

 

I'm simply curious to hear your reasoning behind this .

Well, I don't know about the target audience's preferences to shoulders, but to answer your first question:

I think some people here have already given reasons, such as basing it off humans (us) and the general sense of that.

I also explained myself in this entry's entry.

Personally, I think it's absurd to have shoulders that big, as stated before.

Plus, Bionicle have muscle tissue protected by armor. So, while not exactly, they are like humans with armor (like a knight). Maybe that's a bad example, but as so much as been said already and I don't feel like repeating myself or anybody else....

I don't believe you gave your opinion on this topic either. What do you think of the Toa having shoulders twice the size of their waist? (In human proportions, the arms fall right at the body's sides.)

-CF

@ChocoFro: I'm pretty sure the censored word was the Summer group name, correct?

Correct.

 

BtB

Wow...I'm out of the loop.