I suppose that's true... although with the Toa, the storyline still makes sence. Any individual warrior can ge good, noble, ext, but you still need a whole lotof warriors to fight an army. I do wish the Makuta had been more powerful... or better yet, if they had just left Teridax with the only Makuta title and labled these others as things he created but were smarter than Rahkshi.

Personally, Glatorian already seemed weak not because Bara Magna didn't attach power or significance to them, but rather because they already seemed like weaker Demitoa.

And the Toa were already at a low level to begin with by that point.

woah for a second i thought this was anon's blog

I have felt in some areas that it was cheapened, but in others it was stronger and I liked some things more. I'm not too picky on this and I have enjoyed the story, but I can understand why some people are like this.

And yeah, while I love the Makuta I think it was sorta odd how they twisted them into a lesser evil. I mean, I love Krika and Mutran...great personalities, but when you think about the 2001 Makuta and all his ominous spookiness, it does appear a tad degrading.

I liked the Makuta of 2008. They didn't strike me as mere minions-- certainly, they were subordinate to Teridax's rule, but that doesn't make them minions any more than it makes Saruman a mere minion of Sauron, or Darth Vader a mere minion of Emperor Palpatine.

Anyway, I think it's silly that everything has to be divided up into classes so often. With the Skrall, it's OK, because it's suitable for their culture. But with the Makuta, that simplifies them and makes them less meaningful. As it is, Teridax is on top by merit of his brains and ambition, and that makes him far more terrifying in personality than it would if he just happened to be of a better "class" than the others and ruled them by his power alone.

"Mischievous spirits" doesn't at all describe the Makuta of 2008. None of them did what they did because they were mischievous-- they did what they did because they were all evil in some respect. Gorast essentially "sold her soul to the Devil", to use the archetype, by devoting herself entirely (and in some cases unhealthily) to the will of Makuta Teridax, whose will was her central dogma. Vamprah was a hunter, meaning he considered his attacks nothing but mere sport. Which wouldn't seem innately evil until you consider that a serial killer might have the same mindset. In volume two of The Sandman, an incredible graphic novel, we encounter a convention of serial killers who likewise consider themselves "collectors"-- they do what they do because it is fun and purposeful for them, although in a terribly sadistic way.

Meanwhile, the Rahkshi/Kraata powers that we were given in 2003 never struck me as the start of some process that weakened Makuta. After all, Greg didn't once say that these were the limit of a Makuta's powers. I'd like to imagine him simply identifying these as the only powers he'd imagine Makuta would need to advance the story-- and the very next year we saw the Shadow Hand and the Makuta's ability to absorb mass as the first of many major powers not enumerated as Kraata or Rahkshi.

Toa weren't cheapened any more than Makuta in my eyes. We knew what the Toa were: powerful heroes who served the Matoran. Yes, we eventually learned that there were more of them, but did that really make them any less heroic? These were the heroes who were destined to save the Matoran of Mata Nui, and I don't recall anything in story ever saying that "these are the only six Toa out there"-- it was just taken for granted by fans until 2003.

And the fact that the Matoran-into-Toa-into-Turaga process has a semi-scientific nature doesn't mean that it's not a mystical gift from the Great Spirit. The Toa Inika did receive their Toa Power from another source, but that doesn't make their transformation any less mysterious or dynamic. Any notions that Toa were ever in limited supply were a fan-made myth, and it's worth noting that many fans were perfectly ready to accept a new slew of Toa-- just look at MOCs of the era and the number of fan-created Toa that emerged.

"Significance" in the sense you're using it is, for the most part, a myth in itself. Assume that there are only six Toa, only one island, only one Makuta, and so on, and you've got a pretty good synopsis of 2001 story, but what will you do with the story in future years? Wave-after-wave of villains with origins as ludicrous as some B-movie monsters? As many Deus-Ex-Machinas as it takes to keep Makuta from being truly defeated? A new transformation of the Toa Nuva every year ad infinitum? The story would quickly get tiresome, and beyond tiresome-- it'd be so far-fetched that we might all be looking back and wondering how we could have ever thought it was a story with staying power.

Change is needed to advance the story, and that has been a given since BIONICLE began. Nothing changes about that, and thus everything changes. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

First, I never described any existing Makuta as "Mischievous spirits." I said that if there were lesser Makuta like that, it would be cool, and I even mentioned that I was digressing and that it might make a good fanfiction idea. (And for that matter, I'm not talking about 'castes' in the Skrall sense. I listed three possible levels, but I was simply thinking of a sliding scale rather than the usual blanket statements we get in BIONICLE like "All Makuta have the exact same powers and are evil." If you want a real-life example, think of trolls in folklore: Some are stupid and dangerous, some are friendly and mischievous, some are clever and greedy, etc. Without any reason for all their variety, the Makuta are incongruous... Lady Kopaka said it well.)

Second, I never complained about the Matoran-Toa-Turaga process; in fact, I specifically defended it, bringing up the fact that it was originally portrayed as a "mystical gift" from the Great Spirit. I only brought it up in response to several posters in the original topic who were complaining about the Nuva no longer being the only Toa. I was disagreeing with them.

Then I brought up the Inika not because they were transformed, but because their transformation went largely unremarked upon. They skipped over the character development you'd expect to get from a transformation—the Inika immediately knew how to use their elemental powers, their masks worked flawlessly from the beginning... They were Matoran one moment, and perfect, fighting Toa the next. When real people are thrust into a position like that, they don't completely adjust within a day.

Assume that there are only six Toa, only one island, only one Makuta, and so on, and you've got a pretty good synopsis of 2001 story, but what will you do with the story in future years? Wave-after-wave of villains with origins as ludicrous as some B-movie monsters? As many Deus-Ex-Machinas as it takes to keep Makuta from being truly defeated? A new transformation of the Toa Nuva every year ad infinitum? The story would quickly get tiresome, and beyond tiresome-- it'd be so far-fetched that we might all be looking back and wondering how we could have ever thought it was a story with staying power.

 

Change is needed to advance the story, and that has been a given since BIONICLE began. Nothing changes about that, and thus everything changes. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

"Significance" doesn't mean a maintained status quo, it means consistency. If one group of characters is transformed so that they double in height and develop fantastic powers, and they take half a story-year to truly become adept at using their abilities, why does another group undergo an even more radical transformation nonchalantly, in a day? Why is a transformation that inspires awe in one group shrugged off by another? Because the story team stops placing significance on the transformation. Significance is not at all a myth.

(And deus ex machinas aren't related to this debate, but if you want to discuss them, the ultimate deus ex machina in BIONICLE is, once again, the transformation of the Inika.)

Also, I think you might be arguing with me under the impression that every single one of these points is a complaint, which is false. This is just me trying to analyze what might be responsible for dissatisfaction among older fans—Hence my asking if this is what people are feeling at the end of the entry.

I don't understand what you're saying about the Makuta. You said they seemed lackluster, but now you're saying that they do all have the same powers and evilness as Teridax in-story. I agree with the latter, and that's my problem with this post-- nowhere in the story were any of the Makuta "lesser" Makuta except according to the BoM hierarchy. They are just as powerful in-battle as Teridax, and only lose occasionally because unlike Teridax they don't always have the option of planning (and staging) every confrontation so that they come out on top. In the books, the Toa Nuva failed to defeat even one of the Makuta in Karda Nui.

The reason the Makuta were not as dark and mysterious as Teridax in 2001 can quite obviously be chalked up to a quote by the Karzahni plant in Time Trap: "Makuta has always been fond of... masks..." Even in 2001 we could tell that Makuta's dark, terrifying forms, however powerful they were, were a counterfeit. Likewise at least half of his speech was an obvious attempt to play mind-games with the Toa, and of dubious authenticity ("I bore you, for I am nothing, and out of nothing, you came"). Deception was Teridax's game, and it was no surprise that he could use this to instill fear into the hearts of all those he encountered (besides Vakama, who in BC#4 made it perfectly clear that he knew Makuta's tricks and did not fear him).

On a side note, trolls in folklore are usually unrelated unless a modern author tries to tie them together. Otherwise, they're usually unrelated creatures which our culture has given the same name. It's the same way giants vary between cultures. No culture created its giants with the intent that they be a "variation" of the giants they talk about a few countries over. Much different than Makuta, as I see it.

The Inika's transformation made perfect sense to me. After all, since when have Toa had any trouble mastering their elemental powers? Certainly the Metru were using their elemental powers pretty soon after their transformation. How did the Inika master their mask powers? Easy-- the masks are semi-sentient, and helped by turning themselves on when the Inika even gave an indication of willing it (hence Nuparu crashing into a cave roof when he mused on why the mask powers were coming to the others so easily). That's been in story since the Inika first showed up; it's not as though it was some recent OGD explanation. As for character development, these six Matoran had left their homeland knowing they'd have to act as heroes in difficult situations, and besides Hahli and Matoro they'd all had combat experience. It's a lot different than plucking an unsuspecting group of laymen and telling them they have to be heroes.

My only regret with the Inika is that while they didn't need character development to fit their roles, it was a pity they didn't get any considerable character development until the Mahri arc (but then, there had been moments of obvious character development in the books that focused on their Matoran days that same year, so perhaps Greg simply wanted to avoid spending the whole five-book arc on that.)

Also, the Inika transformation was not a Deus-Ex-Machina as I'm referring to it. As I understand it, the term means essentially "something happens, with nothing leading up to it, and suddenly all the problems are solved". The Inika transformation didn't really solve any problems, and certainly had a fair amount leading up to it when you consider that these six Matoran were bound for an island in Toa canisters which they would (presumably) not survive in if they were not Toa.

Because of all these facts, I do not think the Inika transformation was lacking in significance. The psychological adaptation to the role had no reason to be a hindrance for the Matoran in question, and the physical change was actually given a ridiculous amount of attention in the books, as the characters didn't understand their various phenomenal traits much better than we fans would expect them to. The transformation was never "shrugged off" by the Inika, but it goes without saying that after seeing one Matoran become a Toa and hearing of six others, the phenomenon wasn't as jarring and unbelievable for Jaller and co. as it was for the Toa Metru. Furthermore, the fact that they were familiar with a society that so strongly emphasized destiny and individuality set them apart from the Toa Metru, whose society had been one of rigid, relentless work, with Matoran adhering strictly to their designated niche and never contemplating a grand life of heroism.

I apologize for treating this as a list of complaints, but that was what it seemed to be from reading it. And I'm not disputing that a cheapening of roles could turn people off, because it very easily could. However, the way you phrased the entry it stated that there has been a cheapening of roles, which I disagree strongly with.