The Archivist

Finally finished my collection! Took about 4 years. Cost about ~$15,000 as I started after 2020 when the prices spiked. A terrible decision? Perhaps. But I was bored. I've had it appraised and insured. Do you know how hard it is to find someone who can appraise this who also can drive to come see it? 

I'm not going to caption each image for this forum since you guys know what stuff is. Thank you to the regular users of this forum who got me started and put up with my dumbass questions. I think the "rares" topic is what finally got me to pull the trigger on starting this. Bionicle wouldn't be what it is today without you all. 

DM me if you're selling something I don't have. SDCC Kanoka, Kanohi prototypes, 3-color Kraata, and the like. I'll gladly kill or be killed for a white huna. 

The masks cost more but the Kraata are the component I'm most proud of. Took years to find all the random ones. Plus, I got both colors of orange! Nobody else seems to collect these even though they are distinctly different.  No sane person should start a Kraata collection right now. Wait until bulk lots show back up on Ebay. My bad on making those disappear. 

I have 3 Kaukau's with bubble cheeks. I've heard they come in 5 colors. It'd be cool to get the others but it's so pedantic I don't care much.

Also I'm going to fix that guide I wrote with about 25 factual corrections I got from you guys and FB. Plus better charts. However work has turned into a nightmare in the short-term so it will have to wait. Ty all for the info. It will, eventually, be finished. 

3 hours ago, Aiden said:

The link doesn’t work 👍

That being said, I think the big reason there isn’t a big centralized source of this kind of information (other than the Official Rare & Promotional Collectibles Topic over in BST) is because prices fluctuate and some items are a bit too rare to assign a hard price. Interested to see what you’ve got once you get that link working, though!

Huh, weird. It works when I hit the button but not on other computers. I tried re-uploading it and also put it up on a pdf hosting site. Thanks for letting me know

Yeah I was hesitant to put prices in there, it means I'll have to update it. But I get a lot of "how much is this pile worth?" questions so I tried to make it usable for those people? But yeah I'm not sure it's the right call as it does date the guide. 

Hello! I'm a collector of Bionicle collectibles. Kanohi, Krana, Kraata, Kanoka, Rhotuka, etc. I got frustrated by the lack of centralized information on what to collect and random information about the pieces. So I wrote one to hopefully include all of the info in one place.

I've attached the full PDF but I also took a few screenshots so you can see what I'm talking about.

Idk, hopefully it helps someone. Very glad to be done with this. Open to suggestions/corrections but it's gunna be a while before I ever think about this again. There's no good picture of a ton of the collectibles, so I took them all myself. Stole the rest from the wiki. 

EDIT: In case the link doesn't work I hosted it on a PDF hosting site. https://www.hostize.com/v/t8sfUN6zbE/collector-s-guide-to-bionicle-pdf

Collector's Guide to Bionicle.pdf

The mouthpiece inside is weird. It could just be the texture/wear but it looks like a separate piece. This is not the case on at least the SSKK. They also look like shinier versions of any of the SS krana, even new, and getting one that looks brand new is difficult 20 years later. On that point alone I'd lean fake. It looks like VMKK as someone else said. But unlikely. I also see fake versions of shiny krana on Ebay constantly. I mean just search "custom silver kanohi" to see no shortage of, like, two guys going NUTS with spray paint. If you can figure out where it came from or authenticate it in some way to make sure its not a cheap replica. 

Also listen to whatever Tourmalinex says

EDIT I guess people smarter than me have determined them to be real. Huh, I learn something every day. 

There was a SDCC Kanoka that just sold for $1800. A blue-and-white Miru prottype just sold for ~1700. Neither are up for resale, which means they weren't scalped. They were Ebay auctions, but there's little point artificially selling an item on Ebay when there's only one, and when other buyers are bidding competitively. People who claim the market is due to scalper inflation will need to explain why a promo Kanoka (not even a kanohi) goes for this high despite zero scalping. 

I don't really see how kraata can end up like this as a result of the manufacturing process. The mold didn't accidentally get longer. You can squish them for 20 years or just put them in hot water and stretch them to obtain the same result. I think. 

51 minutes ago, Toa Matia said:

Then, probably largely influenced by that $5,000 Bricklink listing, the eBay auction ended up just over $3,000.

You are more correct than I am about the specifics. I didn't have this info and appreciate it. Slight correction, I am 100% sure the 5k listing appeared AFTER the ebay auction. Which is what made me think it was the same mask from the auction. 

And you are also correct that this reseller is a scumbag. I mean, if a guy doesn't know what it's worth, and you know it's ~3k and lie and tell him 200, go **** yourself. Straight up theft from a guy providing prototypes to the community. I don't debate that you and Legati have the moral high ground here about resellers in general. The morally correct thing is not to resell. My arguments are purely economic, to attempt to predict the future of the mask market. 

30 minutes ago, Letagi said:

Yes, they are. Yo-yo is personally responsible for the 400% price increase of the PGK. He has bought and sold several of them over the past two years. Sellers do exactly what you are saying they don't do - they buy all the supply of a piece that is uncommon but not terribly expensive, and then they sell their stock one at a time and control the market for that item. I've seen it happen in real time. One of these days I might do it myself just to prove it can be done.

I haven't been able to find evidence of the PGI and the Bronze Komau being resold specifically by these sellers. I see a single Bronze Komau sold by set-you-up and that's it. Six other sellers. 10 PGI for sale and none by the scalpers you claim. So 10 separate people are all scalping to drive the price up 60% in two months? Every single seller on the market is a scalper? 

30 minutes ago, Letagi said:

No, we're asking you to prevent sleazy sellers from engaging in market manipulation by artificially raising prices. Literally the opposite of market manipulation. There is nothing natural about Yo-yo buying a prototype for $3000 and flipping it for $5000 a week later. Guess that's just the market doing its thing, right?

You explicitly suggested I should do it for the Trans-orange Kraata. Even though me, and the buyer, agreed on a price that was over every other buyer's price. It was literally a public auction. Even though I'd checked BL and Ebay every day for a year loking for one. That IS the market doing it. Even if the purchase took place behind the scenes, you'd still have one seller and one buyer agreeing on a price. But it's not a public price. Then, when the mask sells for a high price publicly, everyone goes "whoa where did this come from this must be inauthentic" because nobody has all the data because of these secret sales this forum advocates. 

30 minutes ago, Letagi said:

Yes, every time Lego releases a new version of a set. Desirable sets like the original UCS Millennium Falcon, UCS Star Destroyer, and the old Eiffel Tower used to be worth two to three times as much but plummeted after the new versions came out. Obviously there won't be a rerelease of Bionicle sets, but this shows that it is possible for prices to drop when buyers decide to spend their money elsewhere. I don't know if this will happen with Bionicle but I have a feeling that collectors are getting fed up with sellers ripping them off.

Yes, prices go down when they effectively reprint the set. When are the next Bionicle set reprints coming? I see you acknowledge they're not reprinting Bionicle but when are the next Bionicle-similar sets coming out, such that people buying PGKs suddenly buy an off-the-shelf set instead? There is no meaningful replacement for these. Look at MTG (I run a MTG store, can you tell?). The company running it has explicitly said they won't reprint any cards from the early days of MTG. Prices have gone nowhere but up. WOTC (The company) has explicitly said "we're gunna print as many comparable alternatives to these cards as we can, as we see price as an issue" and price has gone nowhere but up. Functional reprints don't, and can't, replace the originals. Bionicle doesn't even have the molds anymore. 

1 hour ago, Illuminatus said:

Was just about to double post (that still a rule?) saying I was rich.

Maybe the market's not so bad after all.

I am curious what the effect a sealed set will have on the price of the disk.

On 7/27/2023 at 7:32 AM, Illuminatus said:

Here's hoping it hits 1k so I can list my sealed SDCC Vakama + SDCC Kanoka combo for 10k (or who knows, maybe 50k in a year). 🤞🤞🤞

It sold for $1825 for just the disc alone

On 7/22/2023 at 8:41 AM, Illuminatus said:

I've got some bad news for Krana collectors.

If your collection was internationally sourced, you probably have way more color variations than you think. Also, if you don't have a very potent UV light you simply can't reliably know which Krana is which exact color. So invest in one right now. Here's some essential reading on the subject that helped me pick out a proper one.

It appears that a good deal of the Krana colors have varying degrees of luminescence (batch-to-batch inconsistencies) while others still have very clear-cut differences in both luminescence and daylight color (imo different formulas/factories).

So for example, if you consider the yellow Krana variations as something worth going after, you should know there are at least three variations of it; not two. The first variation (the one that people would likely call "light yellow") is the least luminescent one and has a very sharp, sicklier look to it under daylight. The other two variations (the ones people would call "dark yellow") look softer and more vibrant under daylight but only one of them produces a strong orange luminescence, while the other looks brownish under a blacklight. So you can't really go by collecting just "light" and "dark" because a) the light ones are the ones that don't glow, and b) only some of the dark ones do glow.

The blue Krana have two very clear-cut versions that are easily discernable under broad daylight: one is pale while the other is a deep, vibrant blue. They produce a grayish or deep blue hue under a blacklight, respectively.

The pearl very light gray Krana are either white or violet under a blacklight, no in-between from what I've seen, although they look identical under daylight.

Some other Krana like the tan on or pearl dark gray ones seem to show a wide spectrum of luminescence while otherwise appearing the same.

The purple Krana are without a doubt the ones with the most striking difference under a blacklight and no apparent in-between. But for the most part you can't tell which version is which under daylight so I'd advise reinspecting your collection if you've been looking at them without any equipment.

I'm glad someone mentioned this. Even without UV light there are clearly two orange variants and two yellow variants. 

I purchased one about a month ago for ~1100. Another guy purchased for 1500. I've heard of a third guy who bought for 1200. However these auctions were fairly discreet and took place over PM. May be worth throwing it up on Ebay and seeing what the world thinks of it. Most buyers aren't on this forum daily. 

It's hard to tell because, as it turns out, you can just shine a flashlight through the sealed can and tell the color/level of the kraata inside. So even if you get sealed cans they may have been scouted. 

There seems to be this fundamental belief that the prices aren't the "right" prices because they're higher than what most people would pay. People like BU, Yo-Yo, and others like to buy rare masks and sell them at a markup. This creates the idea that these aren't the proper prices. And when people fake Ebay auctions this reinforces the idea. 

To be clear, these sellers aren't the cause of the Bronze Komau price spike. And the pearl gold Ignika. And the PGKK. They don't sell these pieces. They certainly aren't buying out 10 Bronze Komaus to spike the price. They buy a rare mask which isn't on the market, and list it at a price that only one person will buy. Because there's only one seller. To be clear, my below arguments don't really apply to the above masks, since there IS an abundance of supply on the bronze komau and no recorded sales at the high price. But three people aren't manipulating it, the general public just sees the writing on the wall. 

I buy stuff from BU and Yo-Yo. Sometimes they have stuff that nobody else has, and I buy it since I can't get it anywhere else. Does that not make it the "correct" market price? If there are 100 people who want a mask, and 1 seller, the seller should only sell it to the highest bidder. If he does it right, the other 99 should be saying "wow that price is too high" and then many buy into the cop-out that "well I saw that Ebay sales can be faked so its not the "right" price." 

If you see a mask go for an outrageous amount, either 1) the sale was fraudulent or 2) someone was willing to pay that price. Let's take the Pearl Gold Avohkii that was recently on Ebay. Yo-Yo bought it for $3100 and relisted it for $5000 where it currently sits. No amount of fake Ebay auctions will make this profitable unless someone boys it. And considering multiple people bid close to $3k within the 10-day window it was available, the price over a 12-month period is probably higher than 3k if there's only one on the market. "Market manipulation on ebay" doesn't apply to this specific piece. I don't think I can find a single prototype peice, with only one on the market, that's been manipulated. I've seen bits of manipulation regarding the above komau and ignika but zero to suggest the whole market is being forced up artificially. 

I purchased a trans-orange Kraata for $1000 on Ebay. There hadn't been any on the market for a year. Still a good purchase. 

I purchased a SSKK for $1300 on Ebay. There hadn't been any on the market for a year. Happy with my purchase because there still aren't any for sale. 

I see these referenced as evidence of fake purchases on Ebay. But to me its like "okay where were you when I needed one? Can you sell me yours for $400 then?" After I bought, several more hit the market. Likely because people had them sitting around and thought "I'm not selling my favorite piece for $150" and then realized it was $1k and sold immediately. There were several sitting around but the market value hadn't adjusted to what their owners thought they were worth until I paid it. 

Also, after clarifying that I bought the above pieces for high prices, people on this forum suggested "you should contact the Ebay seller privately and sell off-the-books as to not record the prices". Literally, people posting in this thread have suggested that I should engage in market manipulation to keep the prices artificially low. Many others on this forum have done this personally. Price suppression like this makes the market prime for the jumps we've seen recently. 

Others have said "well they will run out of buyers and sell low to make their money back". Has this ever happened? Have rare LEGOs ever run out of buyers and dropped? Have old, rare MTG cards ever lost their demand because all 100 people who wanted them finally purchased them? 

On 7/25/2023 at 7:34 AM, Lorentz said:

Economics 101

It really is. No supply, the idea of a much higher price, and a vague nostalgia among every turning-30-year-old who just came into income. People who think "the bubble will pop" aren't really understanding. Look at what happened to old MTG/Yugioh/Pokemon cards during the 2008 crisis. Unfortunately plastic items that can be kept for 20 years easily in a drawer will not depreciate as long as expendable income exists. 

Anyway watch me throw an irresponsible amount of money at this SDCC disc and send OP into a state or gibbering madness. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185994762215

Hello! Trying to finish a Kraata collection. I need seven more. Willing to trade 2:1 value if you have one of the ones I need. I will trade a ton of value for the cyclone boys but I don't really expect anyone to offer them here. Willing to pay cash if you wanna do it that way.

Black -> Pearl Gold - Stage 3

Flat Dark Gold -> Black - Stage 6

Flat Dark Gold -> Pearl Gold - Stage 5

Pearl Gold -> Flat Dark Gold - Stage 2

Red -> Metallic Green - Stage 6

Cyclone Kraata (Pearl Sand Blue -> Very Light Gray) Stage 2 & 5. Open to contract killings and organ sales for these. 

I have the following Kraata to trade. 

1 hour ago, Roger C-T said:

Actually got a Bricklink alert for once. Is this the same White Huna showing on the price guide as selling in April, or a different one?

I'm no expert but I think BL alerts have to be sent by the seller, not the site itself. Like they have to list the white huna then click the "send notifications for this item" button for you to get an email. Which is why so many people claim "BL notifications are broken"

IS IT FAKE THO

It's a ****** of a cover story. The mask has the same plastic molding as the official picture in this thread and the BL/BU picture. He lists several pictures that are more detail than I'd include if I were doing a fake. He also doesn't really try that hard. Knowing that you'd need to set up a good fake, know the questions to answer, and know how to provide reassurance would require a lot of insider knowledge. Can you imagine one of us making a fake and going "I have an ebay account from 2001, lets just answer "I got it from a guy lol" when people ask if its a fake? We'd TRY harder, ya know? Because we know we'd need to. Supporting the idea that it's fake: people don't often sell those, and now there's two in a few months? Odd. Plus vague answers from the guy and the similar backgrounds to the one being sold by BU. Plus the guy selling it has no idea what he's talking about. 

ARE THEY THE SAME PERSON?

I can confirm BU definitely ships from the Netherlands. Seen multiple tracking numbers/customs stamps for stuff I've ordered. Eduardo is a character from Foster's home for Imaginary friends (Eduardo) who is Hispanic (the purple guy in the profile picture). JJ is most popular as a name among Hispanics. He speaks good English but it's clearly his second language. BU speaks near-perfect English. Admittedly Foster's did air in the Netherlands but wasn't nearly as popular as it was in North America. 

I admit the background is a great find - looks quite suspicious - but, like, that can be written off, right?

I PM'ed BU and he said he doesn't reveal his sources. Although he is a quite well established seller. Meanwhile EJJ does reveal his sources (allegedly). BU is notorious for holding onto masks for a long time, and overpricing them, like the red strakk. I mean, he's had it listed for a year or two and still raised the price last week. He's in no hurry to sell it. Why would he put up an auction for a mask? Unless he's trying to offload a fake version of a mask that he ALSO has a real version of by selling it on an off-brand account so it doesn't ruin his reputation? That's a (heck) of a theory, though. The Ebay account's been active since 2001 with perfect reputation. 

Anyway I don't think they're the same guy. 

This is the first I've heard of it. AZBlue has two "premier member" tags under his name. Do they stack?

*punches hole in drywall* lets ****** GOOOOOOO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266307624275?hash=item3e012bdd53:g:UaoAAOSwLXlkk1jS

BionicleUniverse has one for 3.8k on BL but overpriced

I have no idea if it's fake. But only 8 exist and the guy barely knows what he's selling. At your own discretion, please. 

10 hours ago, Roger C-T said:

Are you allowed to link said group here? Sounds like somewhere I should be.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/724622324344198/ I think

4 hours ago, Letagi said:

Interesting, that's the same seller I bought mine from a few months ago. I guess he had more than one.

Copper Komau prices are ridiculous, just a month or two ago they were selling for $100.

Well, good to hear I'm not getting scammed. I bought one from the guy. Then he upped the price to $1500 and left the posting up. I posted it here, then it went down entirely about an hour later. Which, I can only assume, means he had two and sold a second one after he sold to me. Soooo he had three total, I think. 

3 hours ago, doodleloot said:

ok dude

yeah that was cringe of me ill change it

EDIT: closed

4 hours ago, chuckschwa said:

Someone ought to tell them to move their sale to the correct color. Otherwise the much more common copper color price is gonna go up the wazzoo (not that it isn't already insane)

If you PM them, they email you back and take it off-site. Their store doesn't ship anywhere. 

EDIT: Posting removed