Hello everyone. Evening Exo-Fat. Evening JG.

Ahem.

Why was 2001 the best? Anyone? Anyone? Oh, wait, you can't post.

In 2001, in July, a new line of products and a new story was released by the LEGO team. The line proceeding them, the 'Robo-riders', were, honestly, kind of dumb. Motorcycles with swords? What?

But suddenly this new thing came called 'BIONICLE'. Ok, Bionicle. Hmm. We get six canisters of LEGO Technic parts, each a different color.

Subscribers soon received the first full-length comic book! It featured...wait, are those robots? But they think, and talk, and act like people...and they have elemental powers like fire and ice? WOAH.

We soon learned that these beings in this new story were Bio-mechanical. They were armored creatures with tissue and muscle and mechanical parts- something completely new to Lego. These futuristic seeming beings arrive in a tribal like land, with lush jungles, volcanos, and deserts. No guns.

We got mechanical and tribal rolled into one, an amazing new idea, at least for LEGO. These heroes were called Toa. They had no memories- so wait, who were they? Why were they on this island? Soon the toa met Turaga- sage like beings who explained small things, but gave us more mysteries. We learn of two great 'spirits'.

The first Mata-Nui. The second, his alledged brother, Makuta. But what? Makuta betrayed Mata Nui and cast him into a sleep. Well what can the heroes do against Makuta to save the island and its peaceful denizens.

Why, find the Kanohi masks of course. Well what are those? The Toa each wore a mask that gave them supernatural powers like shielding, speed, strength, and x-ray vision! But they could get five more masks so that each hero would have six powers at their disposal. Well where did the masks come from? No one knows.

Who are the Toa really? No one knows.

Why did they arrive at the island? No one really seems to know.

Who exactly is Makuta? No one really knows.

What is this destiny of the Toa we keep hearing about? No one knows.

Bionicle gave younger kids everything they wanted- superhero/warriors who controlled an element like FIRE, who wielded swords instead of guns, lived on a tropical island with dangers animals like giant bears, and wore masks that gave them super powers. And they would need to find five more.

Bionicle gave older kids what they wanted- and intriguing storyline full of mystery. A dark essence threatening to destroy an island, not the whole world (as far as they knew at the time) as opposed to a super-villain bent on world-domination, a mix of sci-fi and fantasy with strange beings that weren't human or robots, ancient legends, rabid animals, and plenty of action.

So what wasn't to like? Unlike Power Rangers, these heroes didn't have to transform. They didn't use guns or call on giant robots to help them in battle.

This was a fresh concept full of mysteries and fun characters that didn't resort to cheap marketing ploys or theme-songs to grab fans.

And that is why 2001 is better than '08.

Thank you.

Well, I finally made it to this debate. After dodging several obstacles in order to get here. I would like to present to you why 2008 is the best year in terms of Bionicle sets.

The first point I would like to make is that this is about the sets.

Now take your 01 canister sets and your 08 canister sets and place them side by side. The 01 sets are quite simplistic, along the lines of a Mahritoran. The 08 sets however, sport innovative ideas, multiple points of articulation and excellent projectile weapons.

In 2008 the MOCist has the advantage with 5 torso designs, over a dozen limbs, 24+ masks, tons of armor, and new pieces such as the triple axle connector and the new Mistika chest armor.

Comparatively, in 2001 you have a whopping 1 torso, 6 masks (though admittedly in multiple colors), simplistic designs, low articulation, 2 limbs, and no armor at all.

Now imagine if the 2008 sets had been released in 2001. They would have been hailed as the most complex an innovative building toy. Trumping the 2001 sets in all categories.

Forget about the story. This is about sets. And frankly, when you take away the island and the mystery, the 2001 sets just don't live up to 2008.

That's why the 2008 sets are better than the 2001 sets.

Now let me tell you about the story. Story is an interesting thing. It’s something that you can’t really compare from year to year, as each year is great in its own ways and weak in others. But I think that 2008 has a slim edge in this department also.

Now in 2001 you get dropped out of the sky on this island. You have no idea who you are and what you’re supposed to do. These mysterious Turaga people come up and tell you (most of) what they know.

As the storyline progresses through each year the characters become more fleshed out, the story grows exponentially, and the universe expands to epic proportions. No longer are you constrained to a primitive island in the middle of the Endless Ocean, you are free to travel to exotic lands or you can stick to the urban areas.

As Makuta’s plan unravels you become more and more interested in seeing where it will lead, how it will all end up. Makuta is no longer is an evil being, enacting random strikes upon peaceful villagers, he has greater ambitions.

There are not just six Toa but much more than that. You learn the past of the Turaga, Takanuva, and the Toa Nuva. And it all is simply leading up to a final, end all climax.

So, in realistic terms in 2008 you have a larger universe, many more characters, an unraveling story and so much more material for writers to work with. Like sets, all this compounds into one simple fact.

2008 is better.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks.

My first question is this:

Why is the storyline more appealing?

Exo, you can respond first. You've got two minutes.

-JG

Thanks.

 

My first question is this:

 

Why is the storyline more appealing?

 

Exo, you can respond first. You've got two minutes.

 

-JG

In all honesty the expansive universe is simply much more appealing to your average writer. You aren't as restricted as you are in 2001. Instead of practically being forced to use canon Toa if you want one in your story, you can choose from a plethora of elements, both classical and new.

You can set your story somewhere outside the island of Mata-Nui. Your characters can travel to far off distant lands. YOu can even create your own island without conflicting with the conon storyline very much.

It's just more expansive and deep than 2001.

Many people say that the journey is the worthier part of a trip.

Imagine the excitement of beginning the trip. In '01, we had a story where, instead of defending the universe like in so many cliches, we had heroes defending their island- like FBI defending America, in a movie. Duty to their land. The knights in King Arthur, if you will.

We had a bunch of new mysteries, too. Sure, once you solve the mystery, finish the story, whatever, it's fulfilling. But when I read a mystery novel, I enjoy the clues left along the trail more than I enjoy the ending, because the journey IS the worthier part.

'08 is like watching the ending of a CSI episode first, while '01 is like starting right at the beginning, seeing the victim, etc. Also, in the beginning of a story, that's when you get to use your imagination the most. We got to use our minds more on the characters.

-

You may respond to each other's arguments if you wish.

Exo?

-JG

Tell me Sorek, what mysteries in 2001 were there. According to the Turaga, things were always as they were. That's how they told the story. To the Matoran there was no life other than Mata-Nui. To the Toa there was no life other than Mata-Nui. The Turaga never told them about other life, so why would they be inclined to imagine it.

Why don't you go back through the great fan writing of that era and give me an instance where the writer took the Bionilces to a place other than Mata-Nui. A writer who let his or her imagination run wild with the possibilities.

Give me a writer like that in 2001.

Show me that story that shows that the universe of 2008 was expansive and deep. Give me a 2001 story that compares with the brilliance of 2008 that the story team has crafted.

Oh, wait.. you can't?

Thanks.

 

My first question is this:

 

Why is the storyline more appealing?

 

Exo, you can respond first. You've got two minutes.

 

-JG

In all honesty the expansive universe is simply much more appealing to your average writer. You aren't as restricted as you are in 2001. Instead of practically being forced to use canon Toa if you want one in your story, you can choose from a plethora of elements, both classical and new.

 

You can set your story somewhere outside the island of Mata-Nui. Your characters can travel to far off distant lands. YOu can even create your own island without conflicting with the conon storyline very much.

 

It's just more expansive and deep than 2001.

Well, I'll go ahead then.

You say that fans were more restricted in '01- I say no. They didn't HAVE to pick from those Toa. In '01, when things were less defined, an author of 'fan-fic' could truly make Bionicle anything. Make a Toa of a new element at that point unheard of. They could very well have set their story outside of the island of Mata-Nui, simply by creating a new island with a new name all their own. I've done it in my epics. Lots of writers have.

'01, it was like a lump of clay in an author or child's hands. They could do whatever they wanted with the story, make Toa all their own, new worlds, before they were influenced by the massive amount of information heaped toward them in '08. '08 was like a clay masterpiece- beautiful to see the result of work on the putty, but if you did too much, you'd overcrowd the idea and possibly ruin the sculpture.

Expansive with more terms maybe, but possibly less expansive when it came to imagination.

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What about alternate dimensions. The combonations are endless. 2001 is a piece of clay that you can mold in your hands. That's all it is, a clay sculpture molded by hand.

In 2008 you have tools. Tools make the sculpture better, more detailed.

Are you saying that fans could not have imagined an alternate dimension back then? Because Alternate Worlds/Dimensions have been an idea in sci-fi works for ages, really. Bionicle didn't coin the idea.

Tools are only good in the most skilled hands. Otherwise, an amateur craftsman or artisit can ruin his work before its done. '01 was the foundation for '08. If '01 hadn't happened the way it did, '08 would've been a mess.

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No, it didn't. But how in Bionicle do you get to alternate dimensions without the use of the Vahi (03) or an Olmak (convieniently introduced in 06).

Yet the same is true for 2001. Except only the most skilled can make a masterpiece with just hands. No, if 2001 hadn't happened 2008 would be full of so callled "mysteries" just waiting to be solved.

And if 08 had never happened, what would have been the point of 01. It's like leading up to the climax and then finding the pages in your book have been ripped out.

There's many great books that end in complete cliffhangers that are not followed by a sequel or prequel or, even, trequel.

I enjoyed '08, to be sure, and it DID answer mysteries. For instance- where did the Toa come from? What is Makuta's plan? Why were the Toa chosen to awaken Mata Nui?

If '08 hadn't happened, then the fans would REALLY have been able to do what they wanted with the story. I'm not saying I wish '08 hadn't happened. I enjoyed it. But I'm saying it wouldn't have been the end of the world if it hadn't played out how it did.

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Okay. Great discussion so far.

I'd like each of you to ask one question of your opponent concerning his argument. He'll then have two minutes to type his response.

Sorek, you challenge your opponent first.

-JG

In what way did the addition of all the other islands, characters, and races make Bionicle better? It may have added more story, but wasn't Bionicle awesome even in '01?

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Yes, Bionicle was amazing in 2001. There's no denying that fact. The fact in debate right now is if 2008 was more awesome than 01.

Now the addition of the new races, islands, and characters made it better in a bunch of ways. One of my favorites is the Makuta, as they touch on all three of those subjects.

First of all, we find out that there is not just one Makuta, but rather a plethora of evil beings. This expands the storyline in the fact that one does not have a single pre made villain. You now have a dozen pre made villains that one can write about.

Second is the island of Destral. This opens up a ton more. What kind of things would these evil villains keep on their island. What do you think makes it teleport around? Questions like these make the mind boggle.

Third comes the additioin of the Makuta as acual characters with back stories, aspirations, and in the case of Mutran hobbies. It makes them seem more realistic. They are no longer a floating mass of spare parts. They are living breathing beings.

My question to you Sorek is how exactly does the additoion of new characters/races/islands restrict the imagination and evelopement of something new? If as you say you weren't restricted by these things in 2001, why would you in 2008?

First, I agree that the races added something to Bionicle. But sometimes, it felt like they were just throwing stuff on to try and make it appeal more to its fans. I, personally, liked it more thinking that the Toa were fighting one dark entity, a god-like being of evil, while they were just mortal creatures.

There is nothing new under the sun. I believe the imagination can thrive the most when uninfluenced by anything else but a will to create something new. Albeit, there is nothing completely new anywhere, we get closer to that when we are less inspired by other things subconsciously. There was a time in Bionicle when people were willing to create their own new races for the heroes of their world to fight against.

I'm not against the new races, and like quite a few of the characters from alternate races/ universes. But I haven't seen a short-story or epic in a while that introduces a new, completely imagined race. Even mine don't have any new races in them. And this makes me sad. Very sad. Sad face sad.

I like being able to imagine things on my own. I often prefer the book to the movie- stuff like that. I enjoyed the new races, but some of them weren't that interesting, some of them haven't even been named (like Axonn's race), and some are just cliche.

That's why I enjoyed '01 more. Much more pathos, imo.

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Mkay. One last question and then closing arguments.

When I was younger, I loved playing with BIONICLE sets with my siblings. We didn't moc, rather, we made up adventures and acted as the characters. Those are some of my happiest memories.

The question is this. Why is 'your' year more fun to play with? Not moc, mind you.

Exo first.

-JG

Easy, you have much more articulation on your canister sets. You have large and complex titans, comparable to the 2001 rahi. Now matter what anyone says, I had a blast playing with Mazeka and shooting down my Makuta sets with that cannon of his.

Plus there are a ton more, so you can re enact battles from the books right in your living room.

Sorek?

-JG

It should be clear to most that, honestly, '08 has an advantage when it comes to playability.

However, the sets of '08 also caved to marketing and cheap plots to try and get fans. They gave blasters that shot projectiles, which honestly never went with the Bionicle theme in my opinion, even if they were fun. Amounts of parts and detail was dropped for bigger pieces, weaker plastic (the lime green joints), and other things.

I remember playing imaginary wars and storylines with my best friend for HOURS with the so-called 'hindered' sets of '01. Call me retro, but I LOVED the gear function, even if it meant the Toa couldn't necessarily lift their arm. I loved the feature that allowed masks to be knocked off, imagining bad guys stealing them and running away.

True, the parts may have not had all the articulation possessed by '08 sets, but they were compact, easy to bring with you for fun on the go. True, the lack of piece variety made MOCing more difficult, but also at the same time, more rewarding. The Toa Krakua MOC that won awards was made solely from '01 pieces, with full articulation, despite not having the joints that '08 sets have. You had to be more creative with your MOCing back then, which is very true to the idea of LEGO Bricks.

It's like retro-'geeks' enjoying the old Mario games as opposed to the 3-D Wii versions. Like car fans enjoying an old Thunderbird Convertible to a Hummer or Lamborghini. There's just something...special to the roots, the beginnings of things.

And I miss the functions.

Finally, I like each of you post a very, very quick closing statement.

Sorek first.

-JG

Sorry for the wait.

'01 was better than '08 because the journey is the worthier part of the trip. We are introduced to heroes, villains, concepts, and plots for the first time, which makes us curious.

It's like how Spiderman #1 sells for something like a thousand dollars, but Spiderman #845 sells for a lot less. People are always more interested in the origins of characters than their endings.

That's why '01 was better, in my opinion. Thank you for watching.

Once again I’d like to thank JG for hosting this and Sorek for being such a worthy opponent. In simple terms this whole argument comes down to one thing that I’ve noticed throughout BZP. Each year is brilliant in its own right and though I believe that 2008 is still the better year there is nothing I can do to change the opinions of those who think otherwise.

2001 advocates will continue to argue for gears and mask packs, while 08ers will fight for articulation and MOCing. It still gets us nowhere. The problem with other arguments is that each side argues with a closed mind. The radicals on either side will not see the merits that each year possesses. If there is anything that this debate has accomplished, let it be that people will argue for their favorites with a more open mind to the opinions of others.

I believe that it is a hard fact that 2008 is better than the others. Sorek believes differently. In my eyes 2008 is the exact right combination of everything great about Bionicle.

Thank you.

Once again I’d like to thank JG for hosting this and Sorek for being such a worthy opponent. In simple terms this whole argument comes down to one thing that I’ve noticed throughout BZP. Each year is brilliant in its own right and though I believe that 2008 is still the better year there is nothing I can do to change the opinions of those who think otherwise.

 

2001 advocates will continue to argue for gears and mask packs, while 08ers will fight for articulation and MOCing. It still gets us nowhere. The problem with other arguments is that each side argues with a closed mind. The radicals on either side will not see the merits that each year possesses. If there is anything that this debate has accomplished, let it be that people will argue for their favorites with a more open mind to the opinions of others.

 

I believe that it is a hard fact that 2008 is better than the others. Sorek believes differently. In my eyes 2008 is the exact right combination of everything great about Bionicle.

 

Thank you.

Nicely said.

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Thank you so much, Exo, Sorek. And great job.

And thank you to all who watched. Hope you enjoyed it.

A topic will be opened momentarily for discussion.

That said, debate closed.

-JG