NickonAquaMagna

...or documentary, whatever, it was. All I remember is that it was spoken in a foreign language. I do not remember where it aired from. All I remember is a guy fiddling around with Gresh and just being kinda freaked out by it.

Basically, it was all about why Bionicle is "bad" cause you can't build a house out of a canister set or something. Yeah, yeah, ugly robots, we've heard it all before. Anyone else remember it?

I personally doubt that new plastic would change Lego's marketing strategy. At least, not in this respect.

 

Also, given the wide variety of people's preferences, it's probably easier to throw a bunch of set lines out there on the hope that one of them will appeal to a particular person, rather than making one line to please everybody.

 

And Bionicle wasn't that line to please everybody. It wasn't like Lego stopped making City or Technic sets because Bionicle was going on.

I'm not saying they should. It just feels like Chima and HF are... missing something. Whether or not they "need" that extra something is debatable, but as I've said several times now, I regard Ninjago as the standard Lego production that all of their other productions should be compared to to see if they measure up. And I was half joking about the new plastic.

If you'll excuse me saying so, it seems a lot of the same points are being brought up over and over again.

 

It seems to me that this ill-defined "Next Bionicle" would be something similar to Ninjago in that it has a consistent story and characterization told mainly through one format, that balances episodic storylines that allow newer fans to enter fairly easily, while having somewhat of an overarcing mythos that will keep the older fans coming? It would resemble Chima in terms of set quality and world-building, while eschewing it's childish and generally bland writing, (I haven't seen it for myself, so I can't judge; just going off of what everyone else has been saying) and have Hero Factory's constraction aspect? Because that's something I can definitely get behind.

Basically this, yeah.

I get it that lego is trying to make themes for everybody by focusing on select elements to sell each, but I wish they'd compromise. I wish they would blend all the best elements of their great themes all together as you've described them to create one new ULTIMATE theme that could easily be seen as being on par with Bionicle. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they seem unwilling to try that hard in this day and age. Maybe someday, to market pieces made with their new plastic or something.

One last note for you, from one MOC-builder to another - If you're looking to get pieces, look up a store called Bricks And Minifigs. Just use Google, it should come up. You should be able to get a good variety of pieces from them, whether by visiting in person or ordering a bulk lot to be shipped to you.

I've looked it up, and... I didn't get much information. I was hoping there'd be some kind of online catalog like on Bricklink that I could use to view their inventory of pieces, but I couldn't find any such thing. Do they have everything? How much do individual pieces cost?

Maybe the Fa-Matoran could be nomadic, seeking the connection between all things as explorers/archaeologists/anthropologists/whatevers. That would explain why there aren't a lot of them, and why they don't have a village on the map. On an unrelated note, what's Turaga Vesta's badge of office?

I have not designed one yet.

Guys... you're not getting it. I was jokingly referring to Nova Orbis without shoving it in your faces. What I'm trying to do basically meets that criteria.

 

Also, will the returned bionicle storyline be geared at 10-18 year olds like it used to be, or will it be like HF and be geared for 5-10 year olds. If lego treats a returned bionicle theme like they treated HF, I can tell you right now I will not be getting any of the new sets. To be honest, I'm just sick of legos lack of good themes and storylines that are geared for the older fanbase. Most of the new sets and themes lately have been designed for 5-10 year olds.

 

Also, will the returned bionicle storyline be geared at 10-18 year olds like it used to be, or will it be like HF and be geared for 5-10 year olds. If lego treats a returned bionicle theme like they treated HF, I can tell you right now I will not be getting any of the new sets. To be honest, I'm just sick of legos lack of good themes and storylines that are geared for the older fanbase. Most of the new sets and themes lately have been designed for 5-10 year olds.

 

What you don't quite seem to get is that Lego aren't trying to please an older fanbase, because there are far fewer of them than there are children. So if Lego aim for a smaller group of older fans, they miss the greater profit that comes from the greater number of child buyers. One of the reasons (perhaps the main reason) Bionicle was so successful in its early years was that it was straightforward enough to appeal to children but had a certain level of darkness and complexity that also tapped into an older demographic. And one of the reasons it eventually ended was because it became too complex for children and new fans to get into, which damaged its profits.

 

I'd also like to see more Lego products for older fans, but we do have to accept that we aren't the priority audience.

 

But that's the key, isn't it? One would hope that in the unlikely event that LEGO brought back Bionicle (I emphasize unlikely, given the context of their brief, one-second apearance in The Lego Movie) that they would find a way to undo the continuity lockout and make it appealing to newcomers and old fans, kids and adults, somehow. Unfortunately, that's a difficult juggling act at the best of times, and Bionicle is a particularly monumental case.

 

Eh, it's not that hard.

Say what you will about how much things changed over the years, but I think it's impressive that we see the Slizer limb piece used so many times throughout Bionicle, and even in Hero Factory, long after it was outdated. It worked really well on the Visorak, but once the Inika came around, with their super long, slender limbs.... yeah... Still, it was interesting just seeing the piece used.

It's also impressive that Lego apparently struck gold when they created the socket piece. When figures like the Rahkshi came around, revolutionizing the art of their buildable figures, we saw them used a BUNCH, and they were used for a long time after that. It's kinda funny, looking at how big and bulbous such pieces look on a small figure like a Slizer, only to then see how utterly giant the Inika look when you keep the scale of the timeless socket pieces in mind. You don't even need to have the actual figures standing next to each other in real life to see the difference. Unfortunately, Lego kept fiddling around with something that, for all intents and purposes, already worked just fine, sometimes making it worse... although, with the Hero Factory 2.0 figures, it seems that they've finally perfected the piece.

Looking back, I really wish I'd gotten at least one of these little dudes (the Slizers) back when I saw them on the shelves. These days, I can appreciate them for their engineering, overall funkiness and just the sheer innovation of them... well... BEING buildable action figures. I did at least get to see and handle them at a friend's house at some point or other, and they were pretty cool. There's just something timeless about them. They're so darn weird, but that just makes them memorable. I did get two Roboriders, and I still have a few pieces left over from them... but I didn't find them very compelling.

The Toa Mata were just a much more polished take on the Slizers, but the STORY and WORLD they had to go along with them is a big part of what made them catch on like they did. You wanted to explore this crazy world with them. That was their edge.

Some of my favorite Bionicle figures of all are the Toa Metru. The "Inika Build" used in the later half of Bionicle's lifespan is its own beast, but the Toa Metru are, in my eyes, the ultimate evolution of what I call "Slizer engineering". They were the most beautiful, streamlined "Slizers" we'd ever see, and the function worked really well. They were more poseable than anything that had come before, making a good compromise between posing and functions, possibly the best we'll ever see, and there was still an emphasis on the disks that year, yet another reminder of those funky lil' dudes that started it all.

Kanohi Arthron. It just has soooo much going on, but all the little details flow together so well. It has a great shape that matches Jaller Mahri's body, creating a sort of theme, but even on its own it just has soooo much character oozing from it, second only to the original Hau, in my eyes. I think it's one of the most unique, well made and, well, beautiful masks out there.

Oh wow, I just had actual impact on your story. I am honored.

No prob. This is by Bionicle fans, for Bionicle fans.

How bout the mask of Psionics

That wouldn't be a good idea, since there's going to be a Toa of Psionics down the road.

Anyway, here's the updated version of Venti's bio, Kanohi power included (I still recommend reading the higher-res version, though)! http://nickinamerica.deviantart.com/art/Bionicle-Nova-Orbis-Toa-Venti-Bio-436170657 Thanks for the suggested power, Onaku.

How about the mask of farsight? Eagle eyes and all, you know?

Well... compared to the mask of sensory aptitude, that does seem kinda redundant.. but you know what? Maybe if I took it far enough, it could be cool. Like, let's say he could spot someone from miles and miles away, making hiding from him very difficult? That might be cool, and kinda spooky.

I just looked up "eyes" in google translate out of curiosity. Hilariously, the Maori translation is Kanohi.

Kanohi Kanohi.

Well, like you said, not all matoran actually wear a kanohi any more. Wouldn't that also translate to their toa forms? Or was this completely unintentional?

I do want all of the Toa to have masks of power, though. I simply forgot to give Venti one. Can you guys think of any that would be really fitting? I'm saving the mask of sensory aptitude for another character, so that's out the window.

Maybe a mask that makes his body as light as a feather... or would that be redundant?

So which mask those he wear it looks kind of like Greshs helmet and a mahiki

OH DANG! I can't believe I completely forgot to give him a Kanohi power.... uh...

Hmmmmmmm.

I've got a bad feeling about this. Lego has been using the best plastic out of anyone for decades and I haven't seen anyone come CLOSE to the type of quality that Lego has. If there was a better plastic, others would be using it. Which they haven't, so that tells you something. If the plastic changes, something very fundamental is going to change about Lego: the stability, the durability, the way the pieces feel, etc.

That's why they're investing so much time into making something that won't create such concerns. If they just wanted a cheaper alternative, they'd start churning it out in, like, 2-3 years. 5, tops. They're trying to make something that IS as good, maybe even better. This is a different era, they can try new things. They'll never know for sure whether they can do it or not until they try.

Wait... do you draw these with a mouse or tablet?

 

Also, can we look forward to seeing more landscapes? I just think that those are so cool, sort of like what Faber did, helping flesh out the environment of a mythical world.

Neither. I use paper and pencils.

Drawing all of this with a mouse would be EXCRUTIATING and take forever to do. Anyway, thanks. Yes, there will be more landscapes.

Got something new to see over in the concept art thread! It's Toa Venti's Bio. http://www.bzpower.com/board/index.php?showtopic=11597

Oh, and here's the original version. http://nickinamerica.deviantart.com/art/Bionicle-Nova-Orbis-Toa-Venti-Bio-436170657

Time for some new character art! Here's Toa Venti's Bio!

...Unfortunately, I've compressed it to the point that it's kinda hard to look at, so here's the higher-res version. http://nickinamerica.deviantart.com/art/Bionicle-Nova-Orbis-Toa-Venti-Bio-436170657

So yeah, there's a lot more going on with this than the earlier Toa Bios. I'll try to make ones for the other three new Toa between releasing the actual chapters of the story, when I have time for it. So yeah, the piece at the top would be the boxart on a canister... box... candy bag... whatever... and the shots of the mask and Toa Venti just standing would be on the back.

I wanted to make this boxart reminiscent of how the Toa were Portrayed in the first four years of Bionicle. The Toa Mata/Nuva and Toa Metru looked so cool when complimented by the scenery and how they were interacting with it. Swimming, flying, surfing, all that stuff! From 2005 onwards, they mostly just... stood around or ran toward the viewer, all six characters using the the same backgrounds in 2006-8, and similar, mostly the same backgrounds in 2005 and 2009, making the characters themselves less distinct (though not as badly in 2009's winter wave. The Legends wave and Stars Wave were where they just stopped trying.). I hope I've captured that old-school spirit with this.

And I understand that making the characters stand and not do things makes them easier to see, so that's why I included such a shot at the bottom. I just miss that... LIFE they used to have. If showed that you were getting a whole world to go along with these guys, one that felt as "real" as they did.

For those who want a closer look at each component of this piece without the text and clutter...


Here's Venti standing. http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/054/7/e/venti_0001_by_nickinamerica-d77omh4.png

Here's Venti flying. http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/054/0/4/venti_by_nickinamerica-d77oldo.png

Here's Venti's mask. http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/054/1/8/venti_0003_by_nickinamerica-d77ooq9.png

Here's Venti's "boxart". http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/054/f/a/venti_0004_by_nickinamerica-d77omt3.png

Feedback is appreciated.

Though, are there just Agori among the "new" Matoran, or is it "just" them?

There may be a few actual Agori around, but they just kinda blend into the new Matoran at this point. It's just like the humans and reploids in Megaman ZX. Everyone's some kind of a cyborg now, so the lines between the two races are blurred to a point that the differences have become insignificant.

I just wanted to make things simple, you know?

Well, that's not really how it works. So much time has passed that the two races have kind of given way to a new "breed" of Matoran with Agori traits. They still have incredibly long lifespans, but they're fleshier and more vulnerable.

Although I'm unable to provide measurements at the moment, I do want to make a suggestion, one that could make things soooo much easier concerning, well, all masks.

I think that whatever masks you make should be large enough to fit the Toa Mahri "visor" piece underneath, and have the mouthpiece be 3 studs long instead of the usual two. Anyone who's ever wanted to fit a visor under Toa Vakama's Huna and spray paint it blue to use for, say, a Toa Macku moc has run into the problem of it being, well, impossible to fit that way.

So however the outside of a mask is shaped, I think it would be best to find the measurements of that visor piece, make a 3D model of it, and just build all of your masks around that template. In any case, you'd never have to worry about clearance for the Metru heads to fit underneath.

Unfortunately, while most Metru-style masks CAN fit over a Toa Mata head, they tend to be very cramped, especially if the visor piece is used as well. In that case, I think it would be best to make two templates, and decide beforehand whether you want a mask to be worn on a Toa Metru head or a Toa Mata head.

If I may add... one thing I think would make people ESPECIALLY crazy, if you found the material for this (though it's understandable if you can't) would be... new colors of the Toa Metru eye piece.... like, say, yellow... or Tahu pink... or purple... but I think I've said too much, already.

Not sure I agree fully with putting it online. I understand that its creators are long gone, and Lego no longer makes a profit, but it could result in a similar situation to the Legends of Mata Nui game, and why no one has put that online yet. It's still under someones license, and it could still result in legal trouble.

 

I would personally be against it, but I doubt I'd campaign against it. I don't care either way, I have the game on it's original playing device.

 

So do I. I can even use the gameboy player to play it on a TV screen.... but those cartridges are finite, and I think it ought to be available online for people to see where it allllll began. If Lego isn't doing anything to support it, and don't have anything to lose from it, and still doesn't want people to play it... that's just kinda mean.

 

It's got to be the story that holds me back. I've always liked technic sets more than system sets, so Ninjago and Chima to a lesser extent are out of the question. I'm not much of a fan of HF's new(er) building system, but I'm finding that it's pretty fun. The one thing that kept me into Bionicle for all these years was/is the extensive and deep storyline. Even though HF has a storyline, it is episodical and can't "pull you in" like the Bionicle story. Bionicle had this certain air of mystery to it that HF doesn't have. You actually had to dig deep to find the charaters' true intentions (Makuta's plan took 8 years before it became fully known). Until Lego strikes that perfect balance of set quality and captivating storyline (in a constraction theme, of course), I personally don't think we'll be seeing a new Bionicle-like theme.

 

Very true, but it was also the very complex story that at least partly led to Bionicle's end. A new line would have to strike some kind of balance between complexity and simplicity.

 

Like Ninjago!

Well, I don't entirely know whether a new constraction theme with a BIONICLE-like level of seriousness and depth would HAVE to be considerably different in complexity to succeed. After all, BIONICLE was not terribly complex in the early years. The big issue with it was that each new year significantly added to the complexity of the overall story — the status quo could radically change over the course of one or two years, and a full understanding of the significance of the characters' current quest often depended on researching the story years that had come before.

 

I think if a BIONICLE-like theme were designed with a shorter lifespan in mind, it could have a similarly epic tone and a similarly immersive story without having nearly as much difficulty with continuity lockout. Of course, part of what made BIONICLE so ambitious was its long lifespan — it took seven years for Mata Nui to be awakened and his true nature to be revealed, and that reveal might not have been quite so impressive for long-time fans if there hadn't been so many years of buildup beforehand. But was the length of BIONICLE's lifespan really what made it enjoyable? I personally don't think so. I enjoyed it plenty back in 2001 and 2002 when I had no idea how long it might last or how much more complex it would eventually become.

 

There are also ways in which the method of storytelling could be changed to allow for complex, ongoing stories. The Ninjago TV show frequently makes reference to previous stories, but unlike BIONICLE, it was designed with the TV show as its core story medium. The books and graphic novels tell side-stories that enrich your understanding of the world and characters but are not essential to following the story being told in the TV show. BIONICLE was always meant to be a little bit of a challenge to get into — you weren't supposed to get the entire story from any one source. This increased fan engagement as far as telling the current story was concerned, but became problematic in later years when new fans had to play catch-up and some important story media (particularly comics, online games, and online flash episodes) were no longer easily accessible. If a theme like BIONICLE could maintain one single core story platform, it might be able to last at least five years, just as Hero Factory has done and Ninjago is now expected to do.

There were many times throughout Bionicle's later years when I thought, "Man, this serial would make a great 2/3-parter of a TV show!"

It's unfortunate that, back then, Lego just couldn't spare the money and resources it would take to fund full blown CGI show. An occasional movie (and some shorter movies in the later years) was all they could really do Now, CGI is EVERYWHERE. EVERYONE is doing it, and it's proved to be profitable. I think it's great that a theme like Ninjago can thrive as it has and that its show (which I regard as the standard that all lego shows should strive to meet) can just keep going like it is.

I think something with the mysticism and feel of something like Bionicle in its early years could EASILY work as well as Ninjago was if backed up by a strong core medium like, say, Ninjago's TV show.... but that just wasn't feasible in Bionicle's era. The Legend Reborn seems to be, if anything, a testing ground of sorts for the Hero Factory "show" that... eh.

Anyway, point being, I think Lego should try to capture lightning in a bottle again and keep it there with the strong medium they didn't have back then, but do now.

Love your comic and your style. But where are the Fa-Matoran?

I just felt that the thirteen tribes already there were enough. I couldn't think of anything else to do with them.