Aanchir

I always assumed they were just meant to be hands, albeit weird-looking ones. I remember being grateful that they got more normal-sized hands that could more easily hold weapons when they became Toa Nuva.

 

So yeah, it'll take more to convince me that the Bionicle story is strong enough to sell itself without a successful toyline backing it up. So far, evidence suggests that as much as Bionicle fans love the story media, publishers have been slower to gain faith in it — and quicker to LOSE faith in it — than the LEGO Group themselves.

 

You speak as if there's no such thing as a story-based IP that doesn't survive on toy sales. It's understandable that selling Bionicle as a story rather than a toy line can be seen as risky, but when you make really good media and sell it the right way, it doesn't need toys.

 

Nothing I said implies that at all. My point is something entirely different — that non-toy-driven properties are HARDER to sell to publishers than toy-driven ones, and Bionicle has shown multiple times that it's had a harder time getting and keeping the support of publishers than maintaining a successful toyline. So the idea that Bionicle could be MORE successful without toys than with them is completely counterintuitive.

And it's not like books are its only option. There are several other mediums for Bionicle's story to take advantage of and become far more successful. In general, books are not quite the best way to sell kids a story these days. A more visual medium would help far more, and I always found including the Bionicle comics in the LEGO Club Magazine was genius and an excellent way to get people hooked.

I agree that Bionicle would be strongest with a visual medium. It doesn't change my point. Comics also need publishers. If you can't convince prose publishers to invest in a franchise, how do you think you'd convince comics publishers, who because of the visual nature of the medium would bear an even heavier financial burden? Note also that I specifically mentioned the publishers of the graphic novels, which WERE visual media, as companies that bailed out on both generations of Bionicle as their popularity waned.

It's easy to lose faith in a story when it isn't of a certain quality but when you have the right imagination and understand what you're selling, why you're selling it, and how you're selling it, what's not to be confident about selling a story?

 

Again, I understand the argument that selling Bionicle as a story-based theme has a lot of room to fail and not catch on, but only as much as it has room to greatly succeed. Bionicle's history isn't promising, but we're not selling its history, we're selling its future.

 

Perhaps I'm just more hopeful coming from the perspective of a fan. I dunno, maybe Bionicle is dead, maybe only an idiot would ever want to bring it back that way, but I just don't believe in evidence when it comes to what deserves to be brought back. If it's made to work, then it will work.

I'm not saying that Bionicle couldn't succeed as a brand with the right combination of factors. But I can't think of any reason not having sets would ever make it easier for it to succeed. A story with merchandise tie-ins generally earns more confidence from media publishers and producers, not less. So if media publishers and producers were hesitant to invest in Bionicle media until they'd seen evidence of strong toy sales, and if the popularity of the media declined faster than the popularity of the toys, then you can't pretend the media might have somehow taken off faster or lasted longer in the absence of toys. Frankly, the toys are probably the only reason so many media companies were prepared to give Bionicle a chance in the first place, let alone to stick with it for as long as they did.

 

 

 

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again.

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

 

Basically Bionicle was a injured bird.

They took it in before it got bad.

Soon they well release it all healed with jetpacks.

 

Jetpacks=marketing

 

That's assuming Lego is smart about it, which entails reviving Bionicle again to start with. Then there's the question of whether they'll get a competent team for the line where, for G2, they did not.

 

Having been lucky enough to meet many of the people who worked on Bionicle G2, I know that they're definitely competent. Moreover, they're far more qualified to manage an IP like Bionicle than anyone who's posted in this topic, myself included.

I'm a bit confused about what is meant by "brand" in the topic title. Yes, like Marvel or Transformers, I get that. But is that supposed to mean without toys as a backbone? Here's the thing… Marvel and Transformers are the successes they are today in large part because of their ability to sell merchandise. Like Bionicle or Ninjago, Transformers has its roots as a toy line, and the storyline was created to promote the toys. Marvel did not originate as toys, but its success with toys is a big factor in why it's as wide-reaching and popular as it is, and why it gets high-profile movie and TV deals. Transformers today has some media like comics that don't exist strictly to promote the current toys. But it was the success of its toy line that allowed it to grow to that point.

By comparison, we've actually already seen twice that Bionicle media isn't sustainable without a successful toyline to get people invested in the story. The evidence, in this case, is that each time Bionicle has ended, the book series have been discontinued BEFORE the sets themselves. The final G1 chapter book, Journey's End, was not released in many countries (and even before that, Bionicle had been getting fewer chapter books each year for several years). The final G1 graphic novel, Power of the Great Beings, was cancelled before it was even completed. G2 Bionicle only ended up getting two graphic novels, the last of which came out in April 2016, and three chapter books, the last of which came out in June 2016. There had been plans for a third graphic novel, and a placeholder listing sent out to sites like Amazon, but as far as we can tell it was cancelled before Little, Brown even got as far as assigning a writer to it. Chances are, they wanted to see how much excitement the first books generated before going further, and what they saw failed to impress them.

Major publishers are picky and don't want to invest in a franchise unless they think it has the makings of a clear winner. Series that tie in with a successful line of merchandise, a hallmark of a successful series, are therefore subject to a LOT less scrutiny than your run of the mill fantasy adventure storyline with no merchandise angle. It's probably no coincidence that Bionicle G1 got its first tie-in books in 2003, after it had two years of success to show and was about to get its first direct-to-DVD movie released. In fact, the same goes for Hero Factory, which launched in 2010 but didn't get books until 2012.

Bionicle G2 is literally the first time a constraction theme has gotten books the same year as it's launched, so there's no doubt publishers had faith in it. I mean, the fact that it got graphic novels from Little, Brown at all says a lot about what high hopes were attached to it, since the other high-profile new IP that year, LEGO Elves, didn't get graphic novels then and neither it nor this year's "big bang" theme, LEGO Nexo Knights, have them now. But those high expectations were evidently not met once the Bionicle G2 books were actually released. And before people blame "lack of promotion" here as they have elsewhere, note that LEGO puts very little effort into promoting the books for any of their IPs, yet their books for IPs like Ninjago, Friends, Legends of Chima, and Elves seem to sell alright regardless.

So yeah, it'll take more to convince me that the Bionicle story is strong enough to sell itself without a successful toyline backing it up. So far, evidence suggests that as much as Bionicle fans love the story media, publishers have been slower to gain faith in it — and quicker to LOSE faith in it — than the LEGO Group themselves.

Sure, go for it! In my opinion there's never been a better time to be a Ninjago fan! The storyline has been going strong, and there have been some fantastic sets in the past couple years!

Some of the sets I'd most readily recommend would be the Temple of Airjitzu, Final Flight of Destiny's Bounty, Samurai X Cave Chaos, Ultra Stealth Raider, Airjitzu Battle Grounds, and Master Wu Dragon.

Temple of Airjitzu and Ultra Stealth Raider are particularly nice because in addition to great builds, they have a very strong selection of characters. The Temple has Wu, all six ninja in their Deepstone outfits from Season 5, and supporting characters like Misako, Dareth, and the Postman. The Ultra Stealth Raider has the four original ninja in new "throwback" outfits that echo their classic garb, plus Season 4 villains Master Chen and Eyezorai and Season 5 villain Sensei Yang. If you want "throwback" versions of the remaining three main characters (Wu, Nya, and Lloyd), you can get them in Samurai X Cave Chaos, which also has redesigned versions of season 1's Pythor, season 2's General Kozu, and season 3's General Cryptor.

Of course, those are all high-dollar sets. Final Flight of Destiny's Bounty and Master Wu Dragon don't have such a stunning selection of characters, but they're still fantastic builds, and since they're a year old you're more likely to find them on clearance at stores like Target.

The Airjitzu Battle Grounds is great in terms of play value. It has energized Airjitzu versions of Nya and Lloyd, along with Sensei Yang and two of his ghost students. It also includes two types of Airjitzu launchers: ground launchers for spinner battles and air launchers for flight. Aesthetically, it makes a nice companion piece to the Temple of Airjitzu. If you want Airjitzu versions of the original four ninja as well, that's not too difficult, since each of them comes in a $10 Airjitzu Flyer set, which like some of the sets mentioned above are over a year old and probably available for reduced prices if you do some looking around.

When it comes to catching up on the story, the pilot and seasons one through three are available for streaming on Netflix, and everything except season six (Skybound) is available on DVD.

Hope some of these recommendations help!

Yeah I've been eyeing the other modulars. Looking for something similar, but let's say...housing related vs. business.

 

Possibly the Parisian Restaurant. Has that middle apartment layer.

10218 Pet Shop is a pretty nice residential building. The left building is purely residential and undergoing renovations (the upstairs is still being painted), while the right building has a pet shop downstairs and an apartment upstairs. Unlike some of the other more residential modular buildings such as Green Grocer and Market Street, Pet Shop is still available, but it's the oldest modular building still available so if you want to buy it, you should do that sooner rather than later.

As you mention, Parisian Restaurant also has a great residential second floor and attic spaces. Like the Pet Shop, it is still available, so you can buy it direct from LEGO for a lot less than the inflated aftermarket prices of discontinued buildings. Either of these sets would probably be better for an interior designer than Market Street, because Market Street has no interior furnishings and these newer buildings do.

Creator has had some decent-sized house sets, albeit not as large or detailed as the modular buildings. 5771 Hillside House from 2011 can be bought new on BrickLink for less than $90 (it cost $70 new). 31012 Family House from 2013 is even larger, and with more detailed interior furnishing. It has a very modern look. Again, even though it's discontinued, BrickLink has them for less than $90 — a bargain compared to the modular buildings. Don't forget, non-expert Creator sets are 3-in-1 sets, and so even some sets that don't have a house as the primary model might have one as a secondary model. Among this year's sets, 31052 rebuilds into a pretty substantial two-story summer home.

LEGO Friends, controversial as it may be, also has some pretty substantial houses with brilliant interiors. The one I'd soonest recommend is 41095 Emma's House from last year, which is nice and big, with a really modern look inside and out. Livi's Pop Star House is also very modern and detailed, but is much more glitzy, to a degree some people might consider garish. Bear in mind that most Friends and City sets are more play-oriented than Creator sets. They have somewhat simpler builds and tend to be left open in the back, rather than enclosed on all sides like many larger Creator houses. City and Friends buildings also use stickers, which are not found in most Creator sets. I haven't recommended any City houses because there are few of them, and the few there are have been very simple with very sparse interiors.

Finally, The Simpsons House can be divisive since it has a license attached that some people might not be fans of. Its interior colors are also somewhat cartoony, in keeping with the show's color palette. But it is without a doubt the biggest, most detailed, and most complex LEGO house ever released. It boasts a garage, kitchen, and living room downstairs, and three bedrooms and a bathroom upstairs. Might be worth a look.

Hope some of these suggestions help!

Based on precedent, it seemed extremely unlikely to me that Bionicle G2 would end so soon. Both Bionicle G1 and Hero Factory lasted two years after the decision was made to discontinue them, in order to allow time to develop a successor. And while there was strong evidence that Bionicle G2 was underperforming, there was no strong evidence supporting the leap from that to the fact that it would be ending this year, without so much as a small final wave in 2017. The limited availability of the summer sets was consistent with the experiences of some other themes that had been on the brink of ending, like Ultra Agents, but also with the experiences of surviving themes like Technic and Speed Champions.

Honestly, the fact that this abrupt cancellation defied precedent to such a degree makes it quite difficult to predict what to expect next. I know from speaking and watching interviews with LEGO employees that constraction as a category and the CCBS as a system will definitely live on into 2017 and beyond, but in what form? Will they be limited to spin-offs of larger and more successful themes, like Star Wars or Super Heroes or Ninjago or Nexo Knights? And if so, will that be a temporary change while they develop a new independent constraction IP, or will it be the new status quo? I guess only time will tell.

Honestly I always thought that G2 was basically just glorified Hero Factory. The passion and depth that were put in the original lore were nowhere to be found.

Kind of odd that you say that, since a lot of passion and forethought went into Hero Factory itself. So you're selling two themes short rather than just one.

Many of the people who are frequently (and rightly) credited for making Bionicle G1 as detailed and complex as it was contributed in many of the same ways to the development and marketing of Hero Factory. Christian Faber, who was instrumental in developing the Bionicle world and mythos (including the secret giant robot that served as the "big story engine"), also helped shape the Hero Factory concept, universe, and story from beginning to end, as he discussed here before removing the text for the sake of secrecy. Greg Farshtey wrote Hero Factory comics for the LEGO Club Magazine and chapter books and guide books for Scholastic, just as he had for Bionicle. Christoffer Raundahl, one of the leading Bionicle G1 d,esigners, involved in designing sets ranging from the Toa Mata and Bahrag to the Toa Mahri, was one of three designers who created the revolutionary Character and Creature Building System used for all Hero Factory sets from 2011 onwards.

Needless to say, these themes may not have lived up to Bionicle G1, but there was never any lack of "passion" in their development.

I think the reason the series drifted away from the more creative and user-generated aspects of Hero Factory as it went on is that sadly, those aspects were not all that successful. Hero Recon Team is the obvious example — like the Design byME program it sprung from, it tended to confuse users, thus discouraging them from actually using it to make purchases. Likewise, the "call center" which encouraged people to pitch their own emergency scenarios which would be evaluated on the "Hero Factory FM" podcast also evidently wasn't a successful enough initiative to continue for more than one year.

LEGO definitely opted for a hugely experimental strategy in those first two years, but when many of those initiatives failed, they went back to what they'd had more positive experiences with: episodic, character-driven storytelling.

As for things like those old Bionicle bulk tubs, as amazing as a CCBS set like those would be, I don't know how profitable those were in the first place. And I think that would play a big role in whether we ever see a modern counterpart to those.

The new building system was what actually got me into buying the sets again (I hadn't bought any sets from the first wave of Hero Factory). Between the assurance that I would no longer have to deal with joints cracking and the sense of visual unity and functional versatility the building system offered, I was extremely excited to try it out. I started out buying just a couple sets but was quickly hooked.

One thing I was particularly struck by was how much the 2.0 Hero Factory sets reminded me of the Toa Mata. They were more or less the same height and width, but with much greater articulation. They had bright, systematic color schemes and an affordable price. They also did some creative things with weapons — instead of single-piece weapons, most had creative weapons custom-built from an assortment of shared pieces.

Of course, they weren't flawless. They lacked any kind of armor to fill out their backs, which was easy enough to fix in MOCs but still a mark against them as sets. Their helmets, while more customizable than typical one-piece masks, still felt somewhat generic.

Story-wise, while I hadn't been too attached to the Hero Factory story prior to getting into the sets, I had followed it in some capacity (it helped that it was fairly simple), and I liked the idea of introducing a way for heroes to be upgraded routinely without relying on some kind of random mutation or deus ex machina. While the idea of a full hero upgrade was treated as revolutionary (because at that point in the story, we'd only previously seen minor refittings), it was still a good way to establish a means for hero redesigns to fit into the story without a whole lot of explanation. They were more like costume changes than magical transformations, and I was glad that Bionicle G2 also took more of that same approach instead of making character upgrades feel like such a weird and unnerving experience.

Overall, my opinion was very positive!

I have to admit, it still frustrates me when people use names like "Onua Master" or "Tahu Uniter". It doesn't even sound sensible, let alone have any official basis. It'd be like calling Ninjago characters "Jay Ninja", "Chopov Skeleton", or "Karlof Master".

In truth, the Toa Nuva are the ONLY Toa team who ever officially had their team name or title appended to their names as a suffix — even in G1. People just assumed that every subsequent Toa's name should follow that pattern, so if a Toa Nuva set named Tahu is called Tahu Nuva, then a Toa Metru set named Vakama should be Vakama Metru, a Toa Mahri set named Kongu should be Kongu Mahri, and a Stars set named Takanuva should be Takanuva Stars. As you can see, it sounds downright ridiculous when you start doing that with real words.

But I digress. It's fantastic that we have instructions to build Makuta, even though they're not broken down step-by-step like typical LEGO instructions. A lot of people fail to realize how difficult it is to make building instructions as clear and legible as the ones we get in sets!

Interesting (and for a lover of the latest Bionicle sets, heartwarming) to read the tweets saying that Bionicle has been successful overall. However, I think it should be acknowledged that overall success is not a guarantee for longevity. I imagine that overall, most discontinued themes from recent years (such as Legends of Chima and Ultra Agents) would be considered overall successes, because LEGO generally doesn't keep themes running any longer than they think they can justifiably sustain them. But that doesn't mean running them until they're no longer profitable.

Let's suppose, for instance, that the first wave of Bionicle sets made a pretty decent profit, then the second wave made only half as much as the first, then the third wave made only 50% as much as the second. Altogether, each wave is still profitable, but that's still a rather precipitous decline. The sort that retailers and media partners are surely going to take notice of.

And of course, the fact that the line, at all of those stages, is still ostensibly making money for LEGO, doesn't guarantee it's making money for all the retailers LEGO depends on to get those sets into the hands of fans, or the media partners who promote the story. Even if a retailer can manage to turn a profit on Bionicle sets, they might not be keen on ordering those sets if they make many times more profit (and see more growth in their profits) by dedicating that percentage of their budget and shelf space to other LEGO themes.

And companies like Scholastic and Little, Brown that publish the Bionicle chapter books, activity books, and graphic novels might not want to keep publishing them if they could spend the same amount as they spent publishing Bionicle books on more lucrative franchises. So even the quantity of story we had, which a lot of people were disappointed with, could have wound up diminishing further if LEGO had chosen to push Bionicle a year or two longer.

The LEGO Group's dependence on retail and licensing partners is something not a lot of people think about, but it definitely matters and was a big factor in why G1 Bionicle ended when it did — even if LEGO could have profited off the line's shrinking sales for a few years longer (perhaps unlikely, since LEGO found towards the end that they had not been properly accounting for all the costs associated with Bionicle), they would have risked more and more business partners losing faith in the Bionicle theme and the constraction category.

Okay, before we start another holy war, i just want all of you to quckly tell, what exacltly did you like about G2 and why? I mean, JtO animation was... not so bad, and some sets like Lewa-2016 and the Protectors were pretty good. But what else? The story is too simple. Characters are walking cliches. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but why do you like it?

The sets brought together many of what I thought were the coolest features of Bionicle G1 sets over the years, along with new features I greatly enjoyed. The first wave of Toa in particular had gear functions and pop-off masks like the Toa Mata, dual-function weapons like the Toa Nuva, "energized" transparent limbs and 13 points of articulation like the Toa Inika, and diverse builds like the Toa Mahri. They also generally had higher piece counts than any previous Toa and used the CCBS, which I've loved for its style and versatility since it was first introduced in 2011.

The Protectors likewise had more articulation, more varied builds, and higher piece counts than any previous series of Bionicle villagers (even if you deduct each one's twelve ammo pieces), along with a new launcher that was more compact and easier to customize than any launcher before it, and which didn't even need specialized ammo. The villain designs that year were not as strong as the hero designs, in my opinion, but introduced some entirely new functions for Bionicle (in particular I loved Skull Basher's bashing function, which was reminiscent of the Rahkshi and Vahki functions but with more attack options and fewer specialized pieces).

I was not as fond of this year's Toa in terms of aesthetics or functions as last year's, but I loved the concept. I've been wanting a team of constraction heroes with their own animal companions for many years, and this year's Toa and elemental creatures finally delivered that. I thought the use of elemental energy crystals as a unifying motif for the new masks, armor, and weapons was brilliant, and felt a lot more mystical than many previous Bionicle character upgrades like the fleshy-looking masks of the Toa Nuva or the scuba gear of the Toa Mahri. The new masks were easily recognizable as the characters, but brought in other new cues from classic Bionicle like the Nuva symbols.

The elemental creatures, like the Protectors before them, had far more pieces than typical previous sets their size, along with creative designs and clever action features using great new gear pieces. The elemental beasts, by contrast, did a great job feeling less like embodiments of nature and more like freaks of nature, with ungainly, monstrous proportions. They carried on the elemental crystal motif in a more chaotic form, really reinforcing that they were made of the island's own elements turned against it. I loved both versions of Umarak, especially the sort of Ganondorf/Ganon dichotomy they had going on. Again, it was a very nicely handled transformation.

In terms of story, I loved that the story emphasized some of the most timeless plot elements of the classic story: an elemental world with elemental inhabitants, a mysterious island setting, elemental powers, mystical prophecies, a feud between two brothers, an ancient cataclysm, quests for magical masks, and a powerful evil seeking to control and corrupt the island and its inhabitants. I also liked that the Toa were a little goofier than their previous incarnations, and had more human character flaws besides just not getting along. I'm sad that we didn't get to experience more stories exploring those flaws and how they would learn to respect and appreciate each other's differences. The story generally did a good job maintaining a mythic fantasy tone rather than feeling like straight sci-fi.

Artistically, I loved the scenic backdrops of Okoto as portrayed by the box art, webisodes, graphic novels, and Netflix series. I also really enjoyed the episodic, cartoon style of the webisodes (though some of the liberties taken with the characters bugged me, namely Onua's height — I preferred his shorter stature in the sets). The Journey to One also had a pretty cool style for its characters that helped tone down some of their weaknesses in the sets (like the disproportionately long torsos on this year's Toa), and I have a Journey to One still featuring Gali and Akida as my desktop background.

And of course, in G2 we got a LOT of "behind-the-scenes" glimpses, which is the sort of thing that has always fascinated me. LEGO.com/Bionicle, LEGO.com/Club, and the LEGO Bionicle Facebook page shared lots of neat designer videos, interviews, and concept art. Even Bionicle MOCs created by LEGO designers were often shared as inspiration. The creators of the sets, the books, and The Journey to One even sat down for interviews with Bionicle fansites. That sort of openness is a lot rarer in many of the other LEGO themes I enjoy, like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, and Elves (you can get in touch with some of the creators of some of these themes on social media if you know their names, and some of the creators have made appearances at conventions, but the brands' own sites and social media profiles don't present so many behind-the-scenes insights).

As for things that stood out to me more negatively? Well, none of the G2 music really stood out as very distinctive, memorable, or iconic to me. The voice acting in The Journey to One was pretty weak, and there was never any sort of online or mobile game that felt really immersive or offered the sort of adventure or puzzle gameplay I tend to enjoy. The 2016 version of the website felt like a considerable downgrade from the 2015 version, losing a fair amount of supplementary info on the island and characters (though some of those sorts of details were later filled in with the new story section). I have plenty of nitpicks with individual sets, too. But my overall experience as a fan of Bionicle G2 was very positive.

Obviously, I understand that many people had different expectations, and they have every right to feel disappointed. But I feel like insulting the people who created Bionicle G2 and saying they didn't care or didn't try is going too far.

Sorry for the long post.

Okay, I have two major problems with common opinions on this site, especially when we are talking about the cancellation of BIONICLE.

 

First, stop saying "thank you for these two years, LEGO". There was nothing to thank for. They put no effort into G2 at all, they didn't care about the fans, they made stupid and boring story, and - guess what - it failed. Personally, I lost all faith in LEGO. They are the Corporation of Evil in my eyes now. I call you to stop buying LEGO sets until they return BIONICLE with respect it deserves.

Lots of people enjoyed Bionicle G2 for what it was, and have every right to thank LEGO for creating something that made them happy for two years. Your own bitter opinion is purely subjective and doesn't have any more strength or authority than anybody else's, particularly since I'd wager you've never even met any of these people you're so quick to paint as lazy or evil. All those I've been lucky enough to meet are brilliantly creative and care deeply about their work and what it means to fans. Bionicle G2's failure is unfortunate but that doesn't mean nobody put any care or effort into it or got any enjoyment out of it.

Beyond that, what kind of perverse reasoning and black-and-white thinking does it even take to think mishandling or cancelling a fictional kids' story and its corresponding toyline amounts to Evil with a capital E? If you honestly believe that I think you may need a reality check. The world doesn't revolve around Bionicle, or even around LEGO. It never did. And if this is how G1 Bionicle taught people to see the world, as if any bad news or disappointment must be the work of evil forces, all I can say is… yikes.

I'm certainly not going to stop buying LEGO sets, because Bionicle has never been the only LEGO theme that matters to me, and they continue to create exceptional sets and stories for several other themes I enjoy like Ninjago, Elves, and Nexo Knights. Anyone who doesn't really have any interest in sets besides Bionicle is welcome to stop buying LEGO, because it'd be pretty silly to think you have to buy products you don't care for! You don't owe LEGO your loyalty if you feel that they've let you down or they have nothing to offer you. Even if you have younger friends and relatives to buy birthday gifts for, there's a whole world of other kids' toys and media out there that they might enjoy.

But if you think LEGO will somehow take a serious hit to their profits or reputation as a result, you're mistaken. LEGO has already gone four years without any new Bionicle products between the end of G1 and the start of G2, and their net profits and the size of their fanbase still continued to grow year after year (in fact, their net profits in 2014 were over three times what they were in 2009, and over twenty times what they were in 2002). LEGO certainly cares about their fans, but Bionicle fans are just one small part of a much larger fanbase, and honestly, even if all teenage and adult Bionicle fans stop buying LEGO sets entirely, all that's going to do is convince LEGO to focus their investments on the many kids who have always made up the much more reliable core of their fanbase.

You cannot justify an objectively bad product just because it is "aimed on kids". G1 was made for kids as well, remember?

There are plenty of old-school AFOLs who might say G1 Bionicle was an "objectively bad product", and it's just as much of a meaningless oxymoron coming from them as it is coming from you.

It is a fact. An axiom. Just look at G2 and say - honestly - what effort did it took to make something like that? Oh, I know. A lot of effort to make it absolutely terrible on purpose, maby?

Designing any product, no matter what it is or how successful it is, takes infinitely more effort than any sensible person would put into ramblings as feeble and incoherent as yours. Months of design work, engineering, and testing go into every new piece and every new set. Many pieces and sets might go through over a dozen different iterations before they even come close to reaching store shelves. If you had any clue whatsoever about the LEGO design process you'd know this. That's why it's so difficult to become a LEGO set designer, writer, or art director, and so easy to spew hateful and ignorant nonsense on the Internet.

Here's what I think. You're probably right on most of it, but what if Dr. Julien was the last Elemental Master of Ice?

 

He wasn't married, presumably, and didn't have children of his own. But the distinguishing detail comes from the flashback Zane has of him:

 

"You were built to protect those who cannot protect themselves."

 

Why would he say that? All he ever taught Zane to do was cook, clean, build, and play. He never taught him anything in the way of fighting or defending. So, what about Zane was meant to be protective? Makes me think Julien knew exactly what he was putting into his creation. He knew good and well that he was putting the legacy of the Ice Masters into his robot son, and therefore, that he was built to protect.

 

Also, consider that Kai and Nya's father and mother were supposedly present when the original Elemental Masters fought a war against the Anacondrai with Garmadon and Wu. Assuming the narrative isn't being screwy with us, that would put Dr Julien as either a kid or a teenager during that war, so his father (or mother) would have passed the power on to him, and then his creative nature may have led him to experiment with his power at some point, possibly putting it into the crystal then.

 

Knowing that he didn't have any children, he would have gone with the next best thing and put the Ice crystal/power source into Zane.

Interesting thought! It's possible that Dr. Julien could have been the elemental master of ice himself. I was assuming he wasn't, but I suppose we never really heard or saw anything from him that would outright confirm or deny that. Even though Zane spent some quality time with his father, he never actually asked Dr. Julien about what his past was like before creating his Nindroid child.

There are definitely a few other mysteries still unanswered about who specifically the ninja inherited their powers from. The reveal in Season 6 that

neatly explains why we'd never seen any indication of Ed and Edna Walker having any elemental affinity, and it's probably fairly safe to assume that Cole inherited his powers from his mother (assuming that elemental powers never skip a generation, since that was a possibility Nya suggested when she was having a hard time unlocking hers, and I don't think Wu ever specifically denied it).

Wait, Ninjago has a plot?

 

And more importantly, someone's trying to make it make sense??

 

 

...

I'm sure there are many people who have asked the same thing about Bionicle. Not only does Ninjago have a plot, in my opinion it has one of the most well-crafted and emotionally sincere plots of any LEGO theme. There are many good reasons why it's as popular as it is.

Well, honestly the next best thing was to adopt a son and not make a machine which would prove to be incredibly inept in many different ways, question his life repeatedly, and become attached to a bird

 

I understand Zane's an incredibly advanced robot but still

Besides the issues of elemental power inheritance, an adopted child wouldn't necessarily have any less angst or any fewer personality quirks than Zane. Not sure what the bit about becoming attached to a bird is supposed to imply either, because lots of people get attached to animals. That's an extremely normal thing that people do — Zane and his falcon friend just happened to be robots.

As for "why was Dr. Julien's first impulse always to build a robot", building machines was kind of his thing. The guy was a recluse who lived alone in a secret workshop in a forest, so it goes without saying that he was pretty eccentric and might not have responded to wanting a child the same way other would-be parents might. Even if he had, "hermit living alone in an underground bunker miles from civilization" might have raised some serious red flags at the adoption agency.

As for why he didn't just have a biological child, even setting aside the various biological reasons a person might not be able to have kids, it doesn't seem like he was particularly interested in romance.

Without Greg continuing the original story, I couldn't stay interested. I bought Onua, but that was it.

I've seen a lot of comments expressing wishes that it were a continuation of the old story, but even Greg himself said years ago that if he were in charge of Bionicle's return he wouldn't do it as a continuation due to what a burden ten years of backstory would be for new fans. It's kind of weird to me that so many people who think the Bionicle story was/would be strongest under his direction aren't prepared to take him at his word on that matter.

It kind of reminds me of how Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd both loved the idea of an all-female Ghostbusters movie and thought the women who were cast were extremely funny and talented, and yet hundreds of Internet dudebros still somehow managed to ramble on and on about how the new Ghostbusters would be lame, unfunny, and disrespectful to the comic genius of the original cast. "Yeah, such-and-such was a brilliant and irreplaceable part of this beloved franchise, but what do they know about what's best for it?"

I don't mean this to equate your ambivalence about Bionicle G2 to the nerd rage of a bunch of cynical whiners. But it's just interesting how often fans of a franchise think extremely highly of its creators, and ignore or dismiss when those creators would rather see a new and different take on it than a continuation of their own previous work.

I think it's just sunk in. I don't believe it!! I mean, they hardly gave it a chance, have they?! How can a toy line like this ever expect to build up an audience when it gets cancelled just when it gets going?!?!?

That's assuming that Bionicle G2's audience was liable to grow considerably in the years to come. But the truth is, from all indications, Bionicle G2's sales weren't growing — they were shrinking. By comparison, G1 Bionicle and Ninjago both had extremely strong sales to begin with and saw continued strong sales their second year. It's rare for any LEGO theme to last more than two or three years if it doesn't perform strongly right out of the gate, because that's usually a sign that the concept doesn't really resonate with kids. Investing more and more in a theme that's underperforming doesn't somehow guarantee a bigger return on your investment.

 

All in all, G2 was great and I'm extremely sad to see it go. This whole thing is made all the much worse for the G2 hater crowd practically celebrating. Disgusting.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

People who disagree with your opinion are disgusting?

 

From the way the post is phrased, I'd say it's not disliking G2 that's disgusting, but rather celebrating its cancellation when a lot of people are clearly sad about it. People who disliked Bionicle G2 are no better off now that it's cancelled than they were when it was still running, but people who loved Bionicle G2 certainly at least feel worse off now that it's cancelled.

How would you feel if something you love was cancelled, and other people acted as if the cancellation was a great thing and the thing you loved never should have existed in the first place? Whatever their intentions, it comes across as mean and petty.

I feel disappointed, but not betrayed. I had expected Bionicle to get at least one more wave of sets, and it seems like it was originally going to, but was cut short, so I can't help but feel a bit bummed about that.

For me, the past two years of Bionicle have been absolutely worth it. Some of the sets are easily some of my favorite constraction sets of all time, and even if the story was held back in some ways by a limited budget, there was such a sense of awe and wonder in seeing these characters and concepts from my childhood freshly reimagined. The designers clearly poured their heart and soul into making the characters feel iconic, packed with personality, and respectful of their roots. The art directors did a great job making Okoto beautiful and mysterious. And the writers clearly worked hard to recreate that mythic tone of the early years of Bionicle without making it feel too stuffy or pretentious. Since the return of the line was announced in October 2014, I have made many valuable connections with both Bionicle designers and fellow Bionicle fans, and it's comforting to know that these connections will outlive the theme itself.

I am left wondering what the future of the constraction category and of BZPower will be. Best case scenario, the new status quo will encourage BZPower members to either discuss other sorts of LEGO themes or express their love of Bionicle through creative works, though with how both the creative forums and non-Bionicle discussion here have stagnated over the years, that's probably not realistic.

As far as the community is concerned, I'm happy that things have mellowed out a bit since yesterday when the announcement was made. There are fewer accusations of LEGO not trying or not caring floating around, and fewer people who hated G2 jumping down other fans' throats saying "I told you so". There's certainly a lot less chaos than when Bionicle G1 ended. And even in communities like Brickset that have sometimes been quite hostile to Bionicle fans in the past, I can't help but feel that the reactions there have been somewhat more compassionate than I'm accustomed to (Facebook's a bit of a different story — in one of my groups somebody commented something along the lines of "I hope Ninjago and Chima are next", evidently not realizing that Chima's been done for like a year now and Ninjago is evergreen).

Overall, the feeling that something I love is ending is a feeling I'm more than used to by now. I've seen so many book series, LEGO themes, TV series, and movie series to their conclusion over the years, and while I won't say I'm numb or that I don't feel anything, I do feel it's emotionally prepared me for things like this. As important as LEGO and Bionicle are to me, as many of my friendships have sprung out of them, it's not like losing a friend or a family member. Particularly since so much of what I've gained from Bionicle lives on.

 

So, how long do you think it'll be before someone decides to make a Lego Ideas upload for Bionicle like last time?

"Revive X Theme" projects (and projects for more than one set in general) are no longer allowed on Lego Ideas. Someone will definitely try, but it probably won't make it past moderation.

 

Now, mind you, if somebody wanted to create a specific Bionicle model and pitch it to LEGO Ideas, it would be allowed under the LEGO Ideas terms and guidelines, same as with any other Ideas project based on a past LEGO theme. Whether it would pass review is another matter and would probably depend on the project, but it would at least make more of a statement to LEGO than a typical internet petition that doesn't offer any insights into what specifically people would be willing to purchase or how much they'd be willing to pay.

It does not appear that the CCBS will be discontinued, but its future is something LEGO has been thinking long and hard about.

At around six minutes into this interview from earlier this year with LEGO CEO Jorgen Vig Knudstorp (who brought the company back from the brink of bankruptcy and credits Bionicle as "the toy that saved LEGO"), the interviewer asks with the LEGO Group doing so well in the present, what could be even better in the future? Jorgen's answer is as follows:

"Well, I'm very happy with where we are at the moment, but I think that for any living brand, any living product, as always, there's some things you want to improve and change. You know, what do you want to do with the, what's the future of the Character and Creature Building System that we use for the Star Wars figures? What can we do as an extension of Nexo Knights? What's the next step after LEGO Dimensions? There are so many interesting things to continue to explore for us in the years ahead, so there's always something exciting to look into.…"

The Cordak Blasters' tendency to misfire actually is partly due to a minor design flaw LEGO quickly became aware of, and took steps to correct for in the final design of the Nynrah Ghost Blasters. Namely, too much friction between the "ribs" of the ammo piece and the walls of the chamber. Former LEGO designer David Bird mentioned it here.

So while some people might be less prone to misfires than others, it's not strictly a matter of what care you take during and prior to firing.

So...how badly is Lego going to feel the backlash from this?

Probably not too much. If the G2 fanbase were big enough to generate a huge, monumental outcry, then it wouldn't be performing so badly that LEGO needs to discontinue it.

Ninjago's near-cancellation DID generate a massive outcry, but that was a very different case: a theme that was still in the peak of its popularity, and that rather than being cut short was just being held to the original two and a half year plan it had at the outset. The outcry came about because that initial plan was shortsighted, and nobody had accounted for what an extraordinarily large fanbase it would be able to generate in just two years.

It just sucks that they didn't even give the theme the benefit of the doubt that it would atleast last three years. I mean for the love of god, Chima lasted three years, and we know how nuch that was well liked. No one talked about it is what. At least not here that is.

As sad as I am to say it, nobody here on BZPower talks much at all about any theme that isn't constraction-based. Frankly, Chima discussion here on BZPower was stronger than Ninjago discussion by virtue of it having constraction sets. Ninjago is literally one of the most successful LEGO themes there's ever been, and yet the Ninjago Discussion subforum here can go weeks without a new post, and even some Ninjago news stories come and go without a single comment. As much as we at BZPower have tried to open ourselves up to other LEGO fans and the themes they cherish, the site's once-exclusive focus on Bionicle continues to shape what people come here to discuss.

If they love the line and didn't care about the money they'd keep making the sets for the fans because the love of the line was stronger than the income. But it clearly wasn't.

Though despite the mistakes of G2 I still feel like the fans did not deserve this kind of betrayal. But alas money is more important than our desire for bionicle.

LEGO has said they are committed to their fans but more and more it seems they are more committed to the dollar.

I've seen a lot of posts like this and I feel the need to point out that the distinction between fans and money as motivations for a company is unrealistic. That's not to say that companies just see fans as walking sacks of cash, but when we're talking about the difference between a successful theme and an unsuccessful theme, more fans equate to more money and fewer fans equate to less money. If Bionicle G2 had as many fans as LEGO City or LEGO Star Wars, then its sets would be selling as well as LEGO City or LEGO Star Wars, and it wouldn't be in this situation.

The LEGO Group may be a successful business, but their resources aren't unlimited. If they keep every single unsuccessful theme going as a concession to however few fans they still have, they won't have the resources to grow their more popular brands, or to create new brands that could potentially develop strong fanbases of their own. If Legends of Chima hadn't ended, there might never have been a Nexo Knights. If Hero Factory hadn't ended, there might never have been a Bionicle G2. People often talk disparagingly of themes like Chima or Hero Factory being discontinued because they assume nobody cared about them in the first place, and whoever did must not have mattered. The money LEGO could spend on those fans would be better spent on themes that have more fans. But then, when their own favorite theme's time is up, it's as if no expense is too great to please even the smallest fanbase.

I'm definitely sad that Bionicle G2 is ending. I don't, however, see it as any kind of betrayal. LEGO cares about their fans, but it goes without saying that the fewer fans there are, the less they can afford to prioritize those fans over the fans of their many other themes. It's just not reasonable to act as if the size and strength of the fanbase is no object.

Well all this might be true, but G2 was still cancelled after two years. That's the facts, so clearly they didn't try or care hard enough.

I suppose by this argument anybody in the world who's homeless or impoverished doesn't care or try hard? It's impossible for mistakes or outside circumstances to affect somebody or something's chances of success?

No, of course not. Pretending that how hard somebody cares or tries are the only things in the world that can affect their financial performance is downright irrational. A person can pour their heart and soul into a project and try their hardest to make it the best that it can be, and it can still fail if people don't like it or respond to the ways they try to promote it.

Please; try to understand. 

 

With G1, they tried because they were about to go bankrupt

 

with G2, there was no need to try - Lego is now very successful

A few things. First of all, when LEGO was developing G1 Bionicle in 1999 and 2000, they did not have any clue that in three or four years they would be on the brink of bankruptcy. Obviously, they knew that the company's record of double-digit sales growth year to year had stopped in 1993, and that in 1998 the company had reported its first ever financial loss, which they wrongly blamed on kids having short attention spans and wanting instant gratification. But as early as 1999 they were back to being profitable. They had just launched the highly successful LEGO Star Wars theme and hired new management that successfully increased sales and promised to double them by 2005. The LEGO Group fully believed they were in the midst of a turnaround. Even as late as 2002, LEGO thought they were on the up-and-up. It's therefore difficult to argue that Bionicle G1's success from the outset was driven by financial desperation. It wasn't until 2003 that LEGO had any idea what a predicament their new innovation-driven corporate mindset had gotten them into.

Second, with the kind of assumption you're making, you'd think no successful company could ever hope to create a successful toyline or IP. But even just looking at LEGO, there's plenty of evidence that isn't true. In 2008, when LEGO began developing Ninjago, they had already greatly recovered from their crisis years of 2003 and 2004 and managed to make a yearly profit of over two billion DKK (over 300 million USD in today's money). Not only did they have the continued success of LEGO Star Wars propping them up, but LEGO City was also carrying them higher and higher each year. And yet, when Ninjago launched in 2011 it sold better than any previous launch of a new LEGO product line — including Bionicle. By your argument, this should not have been possible, because a LEGO theme's success or failure hinges on how much they care about it, and how much they care on it hinges on how desperate they are financially. But clearly, it happened. And that's just ONE of the amazingly successful new IPs LEGO has launched in the past five years — you could throw LEGO Friends and The LEGO Movie in that same pot.

For what it's worth, I've met several of the people involved with the Bionicle reboot. There's no denying that they cared profoundly about making it the best it could be. You might prefer to imagine that because you didn't like it, and it didn't sell as well as the earliest Bionicle sets, the people making it must not have cared or tried hard enough. You'd be wrong.

I'm pleasantly surprised the first CD release sold well enough to warrant a season 2 album.

Same! Some things I've seen suggest this album will be digital-only, unlike the first which was released on CD, but I'm glad we're getting it at all.

It's a shame that at this pace, even if the new album sells well, it might be years before we get soundtracks for some of the more recent seasons of Ninjago. But Seasons 1 and 2 had lots of very iconic tracks so having official soundtrack releases for both of those seasons is definitely quite a treat!