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Can Opinions Be Wrong?

Posted by bonesiii , Mar 17 2007 · 279 views

Debate


Today the Bones Blog brings you the answer to one of the most commonly posted debate tactics on BZP. This is answered already in the Debate Terms Guide, but the answer is somewhat spread out over many entries there and that length can be daunting to read. So this blog entry addresses the idea directly. For clarity, key points will be bolded; don't confuse the bolding for emotionalism.


Can Opinions Be Wrong?


One of the most common ideas I encounter in debate is this: "These are my opinions. You can have yours too, but in no way am I going to change mine." [Slight paraphrase from a current debate.]

Usually this comes from someone who posted an opinion that was worded as if saying "I am right, others are wrong", that I or others had then disagreed with. The idea sounds good--that "I have a right to my opinion." Sure! But what if someone uses this to stick to an opinion that logic clearly shows is incorrect? Such as the opinion that the sky is orange, when it is in fact blue, as one example? Well, the answer is more complicated than you might think--what if what they really meant was they wished the sky was orange? That would be okay, right?

The fundamental question is not whether you have the right to your opinion, but whether your opinion makes sense. The question is, can opinions be wrong?


Two Kinds of Opinion


The answer is, "Depends on what they mean by 'opinion.'" We must understand that the word "opinion" is occasionally used where really the word "taste" would be clearer. There are basically two kinds of "opinion":



When you talk about what you like, or dislike, or feel, or what your preferences are, that's taste. That is unique to everybody, and nobody should feel that they are wrong for having theirs. These are not about the outside world, but about you. Therefore the outside world shouldn't change your view of who you are and what you prefer. If you dislike a set that was popular, you should not pretend that you liked it or feel pressured to like it. Same if you liked one that was unpopular. Sometimes I call this "taste opinion" to be clear, and it can also be called just "taste" or "preference" in standard English. Taste opinions cannot be wrong--they are individually unique.

When you talk about what you think; what you say makes logical sense or is somehow a universal rule or definate truth, that's an opinion. These are not about you, but are basically theories about outside reality. These can be wrong. For example, if you have the opinion that a set didn't sell well, and sales prove you wrong, your opinion was wrong. And thus, you should change that opinion. I call this a "LEGO should" opinion, a "thought-opinion", or just a "logic-opinion" to be clear. Logic opinions can be wrong--truth and logic is not subjective.




This is a basic principle of logic (which is the study of human mental processes). Issues of fact and theory, rules, morals, objective quality, common sense, storyline logic, debating, study of majority and minority tastes, sales results, methods of art, and so many others all fall under "logic-opinion".

In contrast, personal statements of preference; of taste; statements worded similar to "I like/dislike this" are considered by logicians to be outside the realm of logic, and are not logically debatable. They fall under "taste-opinion".


The Answer


So the answer is this. "If you mean your tastes, then you're right to refuse to change your opinion. However, if you mean a 'logic-opinion', then you should be willing to consider you might be wrong, and if you're proven wrong, admit it and change the opinion."

If it does turn out that the member is holding a "logic-opinion" that someone disagrees with, then that is the time to carry out a debate, look at evidence, and get into what I call "truth-seeking debate". That is, for both sides to be willing to change their minds if it turns out they are wrong. Because in those cases, either one side is wrong and the other is right, or both are wrong and the truth is something else entirely. However, if it turns out they were really holding a "taste-opinion" then there is no reason to debate that taste.




Clarity -- Which "Opinion" do you mean?


What most people debating me do not realize off-the-bat is that I'm not putting down your tastes. Instead, I am challenging you to word things more clearly, while I'm asking you to clarify your point. To reconsider how you originally worded your opinion, or to try, in the future, to make it clear when you mean your tastes.

This can be done in many simple, easy ways. It's done by simply adding a "marker" phrase like these in your statement:

"Personally"

"To me"

"I don't like this"

"In my tastes" (I often abbreviate this; "IMT" to differ from "IMO")

"In my preference"

"In my personal tastes"

"Tastewise, I feel"

"I feel"

"Myself"

"Please note, this is just me"

Etc.

Unfortunately, some people mistakenly think "opinion" is one of these words. It is not--it is confusing, since it can mean both things. If "taste-markers" aren't used, the member often must be asked to explain their point more clearly. As a logician, that rarely confuses me, however, others who aren't logicians often misunderstand, and this can trigger unneeded debating, and sometimes even flame. This is usually how flame wars are started, often without any actual ill-intent by the person who started it! Just a big misunderstanding caused by unclear wording. When you state your tastes as fact or logic-based arguments, it comes across as putting down others' tastes and saying yours is superior, even if that's not what you meant. This can be especially true of younger members, but believe me, it's not limited to age--the same confusion causes flame wars on forums for adults/teenagers too, and I've witnessed this.

In short, if you mean your tastes, say so!

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Hey, that's My wording (Kinda) at the top!

P.S. Why havent you replied to my PM?

P.P.S. I like the Bahrag Because they looked like Demonic Dinosaurs to tell the truth.

P.P.P.S. I am right an Opinion is: An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified.
so an opinion cannot be wrong, Ha!
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Anoobus--I will reply to the lastest PMs in my inbox later. smile.gif Been busy.

It is a fact that opinions can be wrong. Consider this: It is my opinion that opinions can be wrong. Am I wrong? wink.gif

Or consider if someone said this: "It is my opinion that Anoobus doesn't like the Bahrag." Would they be wrong? Obviously, that person would be wrong, because you just said you did like them. smile.gif


Also, notice that the definition you quoted confirms that opinions can be wrong. It says "Opinions are not facts"--only facts cannot be wrong.

It also says "opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified." Not falsifiable does not mean "correct"--it means there's no known way to figure out one way or the other whether it is. This happens sometimes, as I explain in the Guide, when there is not enough to evidence to prove for sure one way or the other. "Not proven or verified" means that, in fact, it is possible for it to be wrong. Otherwise, there would be no need to prove it. smile.gif

BTW, that definition is close to the official dictionary.com one I quote in the Guide (orange link, sig). I recommend reading the Opinion section there. smile.gif
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Lloyd: the White Wolf
Mar 18 2007 03:33 PM
Here he goes again...

As a matter of interesting items, I think that even facts can be wrong. For thousands of years, people thought the the Law of Spontaneous Generation was true. It was a 'proven fact'.

And then Louis Pastuer sunk it like the Titantic.

w.gif
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That is correct, Wysp--what is considered a "fact" is that which is 100% agreed (or 99.9999% lol; you get the idea) at any given time. With opinions, however, there isn't enough evidence for everybody to agree 100%, so the presence of some people who disagree with the idea makes it an opinion, rather than a fact. Also note, of course, people can hold opinions that are correct and do happen to be considered facts. Don't think this means opinions are always wrong, lol.

Also, don't make the mistake of thinking there aren't people who still don't dispute facts--but those would fall into the 1% or so, and unless they provide reasoning that logically argues against the fact (rather than just doubting it, which is fine), that isn't considered to debunk the fact. As one example, a few people have posted doubts about the 2001 Rahi's poor sales. Yet the poor sales are a fact based in real sales results that cannot logically be denied--the doubts indicate honest lack of knowledge, rather than evidence against its "factness."

Some facts, however, cannot be reasonably argued with, even as we learn more about the universe, such as the fact that opinions can be wrong. smile.gif (Because logic itself proves this, with the example in the above reply to Anoobus, and logic is the tool used to determine what is considered fact at any given time. It's impossible to argue the fact that opinions can be wrong, because to do so is to say that -that- opinion is wrong, which is self-defeating.)

That is much like the argument that there are no absolutes. It is an absolute fact that there are absolutes, because to argue against that is to assert an absolute (that there are "absolutely" no absolutes). That's a commonly seen example of inarguable facts. smile.gif However, these are rare, heh.


In laymen's terms, it's simplest to think of facts as things that are definately true, as far as anybody can know. smile.gif
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I disagree...

Wait. No. Sorry, just so used to throwing that out there. tongue.gif

I agree. There we are!

I'd agree that facts themselves aren't always right either, but that's what makes something a fact. A perceived fact can be wrong, but an actual fact cannot.

Give or take an ultimatum in there or two. wink.gif

<<DV>>
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Glad you agree, DV. happy.gif Yep, good way to sum that up.
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Great Being #1
Mar 18 2007 10:54 PM
Wouldn't it be something else then and not an opinion? What if a person see different coulors and to then the sky actually is orange?
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EmpressYumiwa
Mar 18 2007 11:28 PM
Uh, oh. Bones is at it again. smile.gif

And I must agree with the above post; a colorblind person can say that the sky is orange because, to him, the sky is orange. Of course, he could read every book that says the sky is blue, but I will make the assumption that he is illiterate and cannot read.

Also, I must point out a very helpful tool to both defencive and offensive debators, one I have used time and time again: When you are being debated and are being pounded or resisted, the best move to make (besides surrender) is to debate yourself. That way, one can see through one's own shield.

~EW~
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QUOTE(Great Being #1 @ Mar 18 2007, 11:54 PM)

Wouldn't it be something else then and not an opinion? What if a person see different coulors and to then the sky actually is orange?

XD! You have no idea how ironic it is that you brought that up, because when I was a little kid I wondered the same thing (not sure why, really, just did), and the subject fascinated me.

The short answer, that you could figure out with out thinking about your example at all, was that your example doesn't fall under an "I like" statement, therefore it still falls within logic. Therefore it still could possibly be wrong. Therefore, it could still be an opinion. smile.gif

The long answer is that for them, hypothetically, what you see as orange would be labeled "blue" by them, and they would not be able to distinguish the difference. They would call it blue because they were raised seeing it blue. That was what fascinated me as a kid, because I didn't know enough to know whether others could be seeing reality completely differently. In fact, though that specific example I've never heard of, there are people who are color blind, or blind only to certain colors. Some people might not be able to see blue, so sky would look something else (gray or white, I assume, not sure). Have met someone like that, in fact.

However. The standard English and scientific definition of blue is not dependant on what our eyes see. It's actually based on the frequency of light. So regardless of the eye design or how a brain handles it, blue light will be blue.

Hypothetically, again, if a person had normal eyes but had some sort of alteration that did what you said, they would know the difference and be able to say "The sky looks orange to me!" However, they wouldn't logically be right if they said "The sky is orange, whether you think it's blue or not!" Because the scientific definition of blue can be measured with objective instruments. Besides, more likely they would realize their eyes were modified, because it would be common sense that if suddenly the sky looked orange (and all other light was also changed, as would happen in that example), and everybody they asked said it was still blue, they'd realize the problem was their eyes, not the sky. smile.gif

Think of it like putting on color glasses. If you look at a blue sky with purple-plastic, you will see purple. Did the sky change? No, just the lense you're using.

So, if you had the opinion "the sky is blue, objectively, but I see it differently", you would be right; if you had the opinion "the sky is orange, objectively, because I see it differently" you'd then be wrong. Maka sensa?



Anyways, sorry if that was too wordy. tongue.gif I just love that subject. biggrin.gif Ah, fond memories of childhood. Fleeting and few as they are, Re: My motto; "Forgetting things since... um...." tongue.gif

The point is that "opinions" can be wrong. Even if an example could be shown of something that wasn't an opinion, that is irrelevant to other opinions that can be shown wrong. BTW, I figure it's worth just putting the dictionary.com definitions here for the record:

QUOTE(Dictionary.com)
1) a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2) a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
4) a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc

The first one is the one that shows that a logic-opinion can be wrong. The second one can mean both logic-opinion and taste-opinion. The third is also logic-opinion and emphasizes judgement or estimate, which are things that can be wrong. So half of #2, basically, is where taste-opinions fall in, and where some opinions can be exempt from being wrong. How do you know? If it can be stated as an "I like" statement--then it counts as taste-opinion. smile.gif

So, basically, look at those definitions if you wanna know whether any example would be an opinion. In your example, GB, that would, quite literally, be a "view." So it would be an opinion.



QUOTE(EW)
And I must agree with the above post; a colorblind person can say that the sky is orange because, to him, the sky is orange.

Only if they say "it looks orange to me." That would be a true statement. But the statement "the sky is orange" can be falsified with scientific instruments, and it would be.


QUOTE
Of course, he could read every book that says the sky is blue, but I will make the assumption that he is illiterate and cannot read.

For the sake of the hypothetical, yes that's fine. Of course, he'd also talk to other people and ask, if he wasn't born that way (if he was born that way, he would think the word "blue" meant orange so there would be no issue or disagreement). But we'll assume he's highly antisocial too. tongue.gif


QUOTE
Also, I must point out a very helpful tool to both defencive and offensive debators, one I have used time and time again: When you are being debated and are being pounded or resisted, the best move to make (besides surrender) is to debate yourself. That way, one can see through one's own shield.

Thanks for that advice, EW. smile.gif Could you possibly give a short example of that? Do you mean debate yourself mentally, or do you mean, when you present your argument, include possible rebuttals and your views of them? Or something else, lol? I don't want to assume I've understood it correctly...
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EmpressYumiwa
Mar 22 2007 03:59 AM
Well, it really depends on the type of debate you are having. That part is fairly obvious. But it also depends on your reason to do it. This is why I do it

As you already know all too well, I am a defensive debator, and you have already pointed out the problems of that style. So to neutralize those hinderances I developed tactics to avoid the bad stuff, this being one of them. As a defensive strateist, my shield can be my most bitter enemy, as it clouds my view. Moreover, I, being a practitioner of psychology in debate, like to know how my opponent thinks and why he thought that. The self-debating tactic helps me find out just that, and that gives me a very desicive advantage, as I can tell why my opponent viewed my point the way he did. That is a great boon as you woul know what to attack next.

a truth-seeking or offensive debator does not have that problem in such an extent, so it would just be a valuable tool. In that case the ability of knowing what your opponent is thinking is what is desired.

~EW~
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Thanks, E. BTW, I'd like to suggest to you that since you use that tactic, you're not as much of a defensive debater as you think, XD. tongue.gif
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kaukau.gifActually, the way I see it is that they way you are describing the definition of "opinion" it seems to fit the definition of "fact" completely. That brings up another question, what's the difference between fact and opinion?

Yeah, I know, this is a very short post, but I make less sense when I try to make a long speech.
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QUOTE(Emperor Kraggh @ Apr 19 2007, 07:55 AM)

kaukau.gifActually, the way I see it is that they way you are describing the definition of "opinion" it seems to fit the definition of "fact" completely. That brings up another question, what's the difference between fact and opinion?

Yeah, I know, this is a very short post, but I make less sense when I try to make a long speech.


Well, I'll go ahead and answer, but I'm a little confused how anything I have posted here makes the definition of opinion sound anything like fact? I ask because if I've said something unclear, I wish to know so that I can correct it. smile.gif


Opinion -- a viewpoint that cannot be 100% confirmed, with the info available. It can be wrong.

Fact -- a viewpoint that can be 100% confirmed, with the info available. It cannot be wrong (except for the rare instance where we get new info we could not get before (see below, though, for a note on this)).


See the difference?


What you might be thinking is what people mistake their own opinions for fact. But that is a logical fallacy on the part of the individual; it is not supported at all by what I'm saying. In fact, I'm pointing out that people make that mistake. When they think that their opinion cannot be wrong they are confusing opinion with fact. (Logic opinions, that is.)

In other words, if a "fact" is later found to be wrong, then it was not truly a fact, but an opinion that almost everybody confused with fact. I'd love to rant about tons of examples of this confusion in popular culture even today... but won't. tongue.gif Anyways, DV had summed that up well above. smile.gif

Judge in each case; something like set sales is a fact, definately, unless of course sales reports lied or made mistakes, as an example. Something like "This set will sell poorly" is an opinion, even if it does turn out to be correct, because there's no way to be 100% certain ahead of time. Make-a sense-a?
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As usual, Bones hits the nail on the head. Way to go, Bones. You presented a LOGICAL argument and left little room for disagreement.

Excellent... waxing philosophic. ^.^
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guardianoftime
May 31 2007 09:00 PM
QUOTE
What you might be thinking is what people mistake their own opinions for fact. But that is a logical fallacy on the part of the individual; it is not supported at all by what I'm saying. In fact, I'm pointing out that people make that mistake. When they think that their opinion cannot be wrong they are confusing opinion with fact. (Logic opinions, that is.)

The way I see it is that you are still redefining the word "opinion". An opinion isn't just being wrong. The best example that I can think of is thinking that the sky is orange which is what you might believe, even though you are wrong. that's not an opinion mistaken for a fact, that's just believing that it is fact and being wrong.

the first definition from dictionary.com sounds more like a hypothesis, or maybe a theory. the third looks more like someones VIEW of someone else based on what they know about them. sometimes disagreeing with a logic opinion can only be done with another.

The way I see it, to go by believing that opinions can be wrong may possibly lead to believing that all opinions can be wrong, no matter what type, and disagree with anything, maybe. that's a guess, it could be wrong, really.
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QUOTE(guardianoftime @ May 31 2007, 10:00 PM)

QUOTE
What you might be thinking is what people mistake their own opinions for fact. But that is a logical fallacy on the part of the individual; it is not supported at all by what I'm saying. In fact, I'm pointing out that people make that mistake. When they think that their opinion cannot be wrong they are confusing opinion with fact. (Logic opinions, that is.)

The way I see it is that you are still redefining the word "opinion".

Hello, guardianoftime. smile.gif I'm glad to see someone out there (and hi, McSpork!) is still reading my mostly-dead blog, XD.

I have not redefined anything, at least not by the standard English definitions that I pointed out. smile.gif If I was "redefining", that would mean I would be making up my own definition, and using it, either for myself, or to hope that others would use it too. I do believe that that is acceptable as long as we make it clear it's only meant as our own definition; this is what my Ruthless Elegance entry was about.

But this entry is simply a report on what the standard definitions and the important meanings of them are, logically speaking. smile.gif So no, it's not a redefinition.




QUOTE
An opinion isn't just being wrong.

Nobody said all opinions were wrong, lol. That would make no sense--just as little sense as saying all opinions are right.

To say an opinion can be wrong makes it clear that it isn't necessarily wrong. You have to put it past the logic tests to find out if it is or is not, as well as do research into the evidence for/against, etc.

QUOTE
The best example that I can think of is thinking that the sky is orange which is what you might believe, even though you are wrong.

I'm with you so far. That would be an opinion (whether it was right or wrong). It fits the definition of opinion--again, let's put the dictionary.com definitions here, both of which it fits with:

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

QUOTE
that's not an opinion mistaken for a fact, that's just believing that it is fact and being wrong.

Here you lost me. If the opinion is not "mistaken", then how can it be wrong? What you said there amounts to saying "It's not mistaken for fact, it's mistaken for fact." Because "believing it is fact and being wrong" is synonymous with being "mistaken". The dictionary.com definitions of "mistaken":

–noun 1. an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
2. a misunderstanding or misconception.
–verb (used with object) 3. to regard or identify wrongly as something or someone else: I mistook him for the mayor.
4. to understand, interpret, or evaluate wrongly; misunderstand; misinterpret.
–verb (used without object) 5. to be in error.

All of the above, except mistaking a person, action, or calculation, apply to your example. So it is most definately an opinion mistaken as fact. smile.gif




QUOTE
the first definition from dictionary.com sounds more like a hypothesis, or maybe a theory.

Correct; if you're using the scientific definitions of those words. Hopefully it would be a theory (as in, that has some evidence but isn't totally proven), but many people hold opinions that are merely hypotheses as well, yes.


QUOTE
the third looks more like someones VIEW of someone else based on what they know about them.

You mean this?

3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.

Yes, we aren't talking about that definition here; it's irrelevant to this discussion. smile.gif We're not dealing with "formal expressions" in Bionicle debates, heh.


QUOTE
sometimes disagreeing with a logic opinion can only be done with another.

Another what? Logic opinion? Isn't that obvious? Person? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you explain?



QUOTE
The way I see it, to go by believing that opinions can be wrong

Not to take you out of context; I'll continue your quote in a second, but let's not forget that it isn't a matter of "to go by", as if we can just say "hey, I feel like believing opinions can be wrong". It's that logic proves that opinions definately can be wrong, so we must realize that they indeed can. smile.gif


QUOTE
may possibly lead to believing that all opinions can be wrong

What do you mean by "can"? There's a huge difference between what you said above; which amounts to this:

1) "Believing that opinions are wrong"

and what you said here:

2) "Believeing that opinions can be wrong"

Which one do you mean? If you mean the former, it completely changes your meaning, from if you mean the latter. You used the former earlier, but now are using the latter. Which is it?

Nobody is arguing for the former here. Nobody's saying all opinions are wrong.

I am saying the latter; that opinions can be wrong. Anything that is not inherently proven (such as the statement that "There are absolutely absolutes", which proves itself true) is certainly up for debate. It's healthy for us all to realize that all our own opinions might be wrong; and so we should logically test even our own, and that way we are more likely to find the actual truth. smile.gif It would not, of course, be healthy to say "eh, all opinions can be wrong, so yours must be." That would be a logical fallacy, lol. The point is, you shouldn't just assume things.


QUOTE
no matter what type, and disagree with anything, maybe. that's a guess, it could be wrong, really.

Again, I'm not sure what you meant by "can", and why would it be a bad thing if we all realized that any opinion can be wrong, but isn't necessarily wrong and has to be logically tested to find the truth? You're certainly not saying we should assume our own opinions are always right, are you?

If you mean, it could lead to believing that all opinions are wrong, then no, logically it could not. smile.gif That would be an opinion that inherently defeats itself; it is an opinion therefore that declares itself wrong. It could be worded this way: "In my opinion, all opinions are wrong." See the mistake there?

But I'm not sure that's what you meant...
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Super Saiyan
Jun 21 2007 10:01 AM
It was a bit hard to understand at first but it sure is a weird argument.
Yes my opinions are always wrong.
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I agree.
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10th Place: TB-RPG Overlord
By Nero


11th Place: Polloflower
By The Infection


12th Place: Emoticanus
By Kohena: Great Warrior of Pie


13th Place: Toktomee
By Wyattu


14th Place: Typcgraphical Gnomelette
By Arpy


15th Place: Shortenator
By Axinian the Chronicler


16th Place: Pica'huge
By ~Kativa~


Peeves by me:

Bionicles:


Plural Apostrophe's:


Alwayzon Turnsignal:


Neveron Turnsignal:


Chalkboard Scratcher:


DoomAH:


Stolen Thunder:

Evil Lord Survurlode Says...



"Brave Knight Binkmeister thought he could banish me with new software. Ha! Lord Survurlode is immortal--I survived because I retained a connection with the One Refresh To Rule Them All. Sauron tried to survive in the telephone system with his One Ring--but that dastardly Frodo tossed it into Mount Dume. Sauron was lost. But the Refresh still exists, oh yes, and as long as it does, I live also, to bring my floods to the BZP forums!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode,
in a BZP interview


"Killeth them with kindness. That's what my mother taught me. So I figured, instead of trying to fight Brave Knight Binkmeister's attempt to overthrow me... I would instead give him the one thing he loves most. Bubble Wrap. Not only him, but all of his followers. BZP members once knew me as their common enemy. But now... am I just a kind old man who has free Bubble Wrap?"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"Why in the world am I calling him Brave Knight Binkmeister?! That term sounds... nice. It makes him sound like a hero! NO!!! He's my enemy! No, no, henceforth he shalt be known as 'Cowardly Scum Binkmeister'!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"Yes, my new minion, you now see the dastardly plans BZP members have--they seek to avoid my floods by getting on in the morning or the late evening, or worse, the nighttime. Sauron might have been a sleepless creature of the night, but personally I can't stand coffee. But not to worry! You, my friend, will go out and enslave the members. You will sit enthroned on their shelves, hung from their walls like a cursed mark, and wrapped around their wrists like handcuffs. Even they shalt know the constraints of time! Behold, the Evil Clock!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"What is that you sayeth, Evil Clock? BZPower is now five long years old? So what? I am thousands upon thousands of years old! I am, in fact, as old as the ocean that I command with my floods! I am even older than clocks like you! What's that? Yeah, yeah, but I just don't feel like AARP is for me..."

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"What do you mean, I'm not speaking in proper Old English? I am Lord Survurlode. If I say this is Old English, it iseth!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"What doth mine eyes spyeth? I see-eth a member attempting to posteth! No! I shalt not alloweth it! Rise, ye Floodes! Riseth! ...What? No, I ameth noteth tryingeth hardereth to speaketh Oldeth Englisheth! Ye Silly Clocke!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"No, I am NOT an April Fool's Joke! Just because my power increases tenfold on that day doesn't mean my existence depends on it."

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"Frodo? Why would I be scared of him? He sailed off to the West--it means he died, yo! Besides, the One Refresh cannot be melted in some volcano. It would take a... No, wait... Sorry, that information is classified. Muahahahaha!"

--Evil Lord Suvurlode


"The term 'Yo' can be Old English! Yeesh!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"See, my problem is that I am far older than Old English. To me it's that newfangled slang those Anglo-Saxon types speak. You'll forgive me if I get it confused with the five million different versions that came out since then. Yes, you will. Or else."

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"..."

--Evil Lord Survurlode's
Kopeke Impression


"What do you mean, it's really 'Mount Doomah?!'"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"You are getting veeery sleepy. You need more Bubble Wrap. That's right, little member. Wallow in bubble wrap forever. Say it with me now. 'Must. Have. More.'"

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"Brave Knight--I mean, Cowardly Sponge Binkmeister has attempted to attacketh me once again! But lo, I am-- What? Sponge? Is that what I said? I meant Scum. Brave Scum Binkmeister-- What now? Oh, be quiet, minion."

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"No, I am not a girl!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode,
on his power over water


"Muahahahahahahahaha*cough* *hack* *gurgle* ..... *ahem* Must remember to watch the evil laugh when the floodwaters get that high..."

--Evil Lord Survurlode


"Oh, that's an easy question. See, Sauron's One Telephone Ring looked like a metal ring, right? Well, the One Refresh looks like a ring made out of those green arrows... like on that refresh button up there. Wait... why am I telling you this?!"

--Evil Lord Survurlode,
in a BZP interview


"No, I do not get rusty! This is Stainless Steel! What? Yes, yes! They had stainless steel thousands of years ago. Yeesh."

--Evil Lord Survurlode

Gallery Of Explosions

Because explosions are the answer.





























Profundities

"While it's all well and good for someone to turn the other cheek in daily life, in times of great hardship another thought comes to mind instead; namely that one cannot turn a blind eye to the actions of evil and still call himself good."
---Nako



"This is a discussion forum for a reason; it's a place where opinions can be discussed and debated civilly, not where one person can claim their opinion as fact and all others as "just opinions." Every person should, however, support their opinions with facts and evidence of all kinds."




"'The challenge of being a Biological chronicler is understanding why Lego are using another method to sell better. It gets boring using the same ones all the time. Variety is the spice of selling, after all.'
— A Biological chronicler"



"I could convince a thousand people that the moon is made of cheese... and yet it would remain as rocky as ever."



"This is simple, people! If it hurts to hit yourself with a hammer, then don't do it!"



"A famous drummer sits down to do a drum solo, but he has to keep his solo up for five minutes. Does he do all his amazing stuff first? no! If he did that, he would loose all attention because the end would be so boring. If he were smart, he would start out with something simple, and then add to its complexity as he goes along, so that more people would be into it.

The point is, writing either a drum solo, or is like a mountain, the bigger the base, the higher it can get, and the more amazing it is. Think about it, when building a mountain of dirt or sand, you need to slowly create your huge base, then as you build towards the peak things get faster and easier to pile on. The High points are where the story is fast paced and we are reaching the climax--what we just left on the last mountain of story we had (the MU story arch), and now Greg is building a new story mountain for us."

Gallery Of Galaxies

~through the macroscope~































Sigisms

QUOTE
92% of people have moved on from Gregorian chants. If you are part of the 8% that still listens to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.


QUOTE
Least Favorite Edit Of Your Least Favorite Post On Your Most Favorite Day Of The Month?


QUOTE
Secret Info: The Red Star is Tahu's mobile space mansion, complete with servants.


QUOTE
Join the petiton for ban bad grammer toady!


QUOTE
9009 Ways To Say "I Heart Spam"


QUOTE
92% of all teenagers claim they're in the 8% that hasn't moved on to rap.
If you are part of the 0% that still uses real math, copy and paste this into your sig.


QUOTE
What Is Your Alter-Ego's Imaginary Friend's Least Favorite Pet Collar?

Certificates Of Approval

Various award imagery and suchnot:






(Above from Makaru; resized to fit.)










(Resized to fit.)


















The above earned twice.




















Certificates Of Approval

Part 2









Needs sized down



Needs sized down













/---------------!.!----------------\
/This blog has been approved by \
/--------------Saiph--------------\
/----------------------------------\
/-For demonstrating outstanding-\
/~~~~RHYME and REASON~~~~\
\----------------!.!-----------------/











_bonesquotes_i

QUOTE
Logic is the key.


QUOTE
I am insane. I know that I am insane. In fact, I know that I am so insane, that I am incapable of realizing that I am insane. Therefore, I know that I am not insane.


QUOTE
Forgetting things since.... umm....


QUOTE
Creativity should not be confused with nuclear weapons.


QUOTE
I heart logic.


QUOTE
Only dead things do not change. Much.


QUOTE
Pay attention now. Repeat after me. "Bones. Can. Be. Wrong."


QUOTE
The problem is, "Tradition for tradition's sake" is like flying blind in an airplane. It's like saying as you approach a mountain "But we've always flown in this direction before... why would we change direction? It isn't the tradition!"


QUOTE
Remember that -- clever absurdity, designed to harmonize with certain tastes, is the key to originality.


QUOTE
Ironicles.


QUOTE
People are like snowflakes. No two are the same.


QUOTE
Yes, the Toa will win somehow. But let me give you a challenge. Write a story. In which the good guys win, or the bad guys win, doesn't matter. But write it with only introducing the challenges that the winner must overcome, and avoid showing how the winner wins. Just set up the problem, then skip to the end:

"In the end, this character wins, somehow."

Now, do you think this is a successful format for a story, that anybody would really want to read? [...] Readers demand that you as writer have thought through the "how" of the story.


QUOTE
Where is this idea coming from?


QUOTE
Makutarahk


QUOTE
[L]et's not mince words here -- all LEGO products are toys. It's a toy company, in the toy business. There's nothing wrong with that.


QUOTE
[A] wise Daoist once said that a name is merely a label. If a person calls me a "nerd", then that is their label for me. If a person calls me a "human", that is a label. If they call me "bonesiii", that is a label. I would simply reply that, if "nerd" is the term they wish to apply to me, like "human", then so be it -- I would thus be proud of that label, because I am proud of who I am.


QUOTE
I'm not telepathic.


QUOTE
I don't know if this is just the way I'm wired, but I don't really think like "hey, wanna be my friend?" I just be myself, treat others with respect and friendliness, and those who would make good friends just sorta show up. And I really don't think like "well, you're not my friend, you are, you aren't" etc. Anybody can be my friend.


QUOTE
*revives topic, only to kill it seconds later*


QUOTE
My two pieces of eight.


QUOTE
Ha ha! Voriki myth still isn't dead? It's been so long since the constant flow of these topics stopped I guess I thought Voriki had finally kicked the bucket. Well, I hate to put another nail in the old guy's coffin, but...

Topic closed.

I Heart Logic

_bonesquotes_ii

QUOTE
Ahhhhh, the sweet smell of complaint topics in July!


QUOTE
I think Evil Lord Survurlode is out to get me.


QUOTE
Bionicle doesn't revolve around ANY one fan. Not even you.


QUOTE
Bionicle does NOT age with its fans.


QUOTE
If something absolutely has to be done for the greater good, it is by definition NOT evil.


QUOTE
Think, guys, think! You have brains! Use them!


QUOTE
Logic is not some meaningless buzzword you can throw around like pie, at least not as long as I, an actual logician, am here.


QUOTE
Common myth. The answer is: "Yes, if you are an ancient Greek."


QUOTE
Last I checked, most of us aren't ancient Greeks. tongue.gif Some of us are ancient Geeks, but...


QUOTE
Besides, show me a brown rock, and I'll use your logic on you. "That's not a rock, it's hardened lava."


QUOTE
The best symbol of stone would be gray. But it would probably sell almost as bad as brown -- LEGO needed a "flashy" color, more like what Ta, Ga, and Le Toa have.


QUOTE
Do not insult cheese.


QUOTE
Omi's right.


QUOTE
Forty-two.

(Four eight fifteen sixteen twenty-three... *ahem*)


QUOTE
Logic! Why don't they teach logic in these schools?


QUOTE
Can you imagine MNOG ending with the Turaga and Matoran executing Ahkmou?


QUOTE
So here's the question: If LEGO working harder by listening to fans is "lazy", then wouldn't they be "lazy" if they listened to you -- a fan?


QUOTE
You don't need to hate to say it.


QUOTE
Four extra letters. "Bionicle sets." How hard is that?

Actually, three extra letters since the s just moves.


QUOTE
If they are "Bionicles", then you are "History".


QUOTE
BZPers are often the exception, not the rule.

::celestial_drink::

_bonesquotes_iii

QUOTE
Of course it's cruel -- did you think bad guys were Mother Teresa?


QUOTE
It isn't like I hide it, but it also isn't like I go up to random students at college at say "Hey, I like Bionicle, isn't that something?!"


QUOTE
One man's junk is another man's treasure.


QUOTE
I had the same theory in ages past, and Greg personally disproved it.


QUOTE
The thing can destroy time, man. You guard those kinda things.


QUOTE
Brevity is the soul.


QUOTE
Which I suppose is a fancy way of saying, "I have no idea."


QUOTE
I attack my own theories. I'm weird like that.


QUOTE
If only books could be updated like web pages.


QUOTE
Bionicle was supposedly a betrayal of everything LEGO stands for, its pieces far too clunky, a horrible turn away from the more "intelligent" Technic and a total stabbing in the back of the good old brick, an insult to AFOLS, evidence of a mythical trend away from the construction toy, far too violent, etc.


QUOTE
It's really pretty simple:

Gadunka is one of the "coolest" sets ever. Most inventive, most unusual, most striking. Thus, he is horrible.


QUOTE
Of course they're weird. All Bionicle names are supposed to be weird. Show me the Bionicle name that is "normal".


QUOTE
You just completely contradicted yourself. If Mata Nui was working out great, then wouldn't Metru Nui have made less money?



QUOTE
If that's greedy, then you are greedy for driving in a car to get somewhere far away fast, for wearing shoes so you can walk at a reasonable pace without cutting your feet, using silverware to better eat your food, using a telephone to avoid having to make a trip and speak, using a computer to type a forum post when you could walk personally to everybody's house and speak what you just said over and over and over again.... At least 2000 times to account for all the possible active BZP members, and preferably about five million times -- and you'd have to go door to door throughout the whole world to even figure out which people were Bionicle fans anyways before you started confusing monks in Tibet with strange words like "Kongu" and "Cordak". All within your own lifetime, regardless of whatever else you had wanted to do in your life.

And forget speech. You have to scratch out the message with your fingernails in stone. Then maybe you wouldn't be greedy. Maybe.



QUOTE
Nobody would surprise me, so it's probably Makuta. But I went with Hydraxon, because he's a weapons master and it would make sense, no?


QUOTE
Why didn't I think of that earlier?


QUOTE
I don't just ask rhetorical questions -- I answer them.


QUOTE
I knew you'd say that.


QUOTE
You're a body with a head. So what?


QUOTE
A simple conversion is not a business plan to actually get two radically different markets to behave as if they were the same.


QUOTE
Um, hello? Are my posts invisible?


QUOTE
Universe go poof.

We All Live In An

_bonesquotes_iiii

QUOTE
I hate typing Roman numerals above three.


QUOTE
I always find these topics funny -- everybody goes in circles, pointing to the exact same aspect of the set and going "See that? So it's obvious it's horrible! How can you not see that?", and then someone else saying, "See that? It's obvious it's awesome! How can you not see that?"


QUOTE
Obviously, not everybody sees I to I.


QUOTE
They have their uses -- like if you're making a MOC that's supposed to be a light green faceless humanoid.


QUOTE
I hate it when I can't tell if someone's joking.


QUOTE
Yes, that's an excuse to be lazy.


QUOTE
Hold on just a second. I think you have things backwards. Mata Nui was not paradise -- it was a place of horror and war for a thousand years!


QUOTE
Lol.


QUOTE
I'm a logician. I can tell you that your argument does not merely sound illogical. It is.


QUOTE
Yeah, that'd be bad. Next question?


QUOTE
We'd still have wooden ducks, no plastic bricks, and definately no LEGO if change was prevented. Really, we wouldn't even have that.


QUOTE
It is unfortunate that it's this way (at least for us). But it is. We might as well come to grips with it.


QUOTE
And I walk away in peace.


QUOTE
You have no idea how many times I've read this style of opening to this kind of topic, man. I must admit I am very very tired of it.

*deeeeep breath*

*shakes head madly*

Okay, I'm good.


QUOTE
My memory doesn't go back that far.


QUOTE
If I didn't agree with something, I'd try to find out the reasons for it before doing anything else, which is something I think some people forget to do and instead they dig themselves a hole for no reason.


QUOTE
Lol, I think you missed the point -- BR isn't going to think your forum deserves approval if he has to be told it exists.


QUOTE
I'm a coolomaniac.


QUOTE
But I like spam!
Wait...


QUOTE
This is not a country. This is a website. Countries are led by governments. Websites are owned by owners. Countries are places you physically exist in, and may have difficulty leaving. Websites are places YOU choose to go. Countries are places you may be born in, or grow up in, etc.

BZPower is a place YOU sign an agreement in order to join. Blame cannot be placed on us when a member violates that agreement. And if a member chooses not to like that agreement anymore, they are free to leave at will. If a member violates the agreement they made with us, we are justified in punishing the member as agreed.


QUOTE
I'm a logician -- I think in terms of what makes sense all the time. I don't just agree -- I know why I agree, and I think my reasons are pretty sound.


QUOTE
If I'm breaking a rule, it's because I gave myself permission to allow myself an exception, thus I am not technically breaking it.


QUOTE
[A]lthough Evil Lord Survurlode does seem to be making a bit of a comeback, just like Sauron, so we might have an epic war that will spawn a novel and three giant books of a trilogy soon... but yeah...


QUOTE
I object to the wording of this question.


QUOTE
Huzzah?

I'm A Doctor, Not A Great Being

_bonesquotes #whatever

QUOTE
Ever had one of those moments where you think you just passed into an alternate timeline? This is one. ()_o


QUOTE
Rants are based on pompous egos and desire to pick a fight. Not intelligence.


QUOTE
The Monster on LOST is Makuta.


QUOTE
Cynics are some of the most naive people on the planet. They hear someone claim things are bad, and they accept it without question.


QUOTE
I'm a realist with an imagination.


QUOTE
I blame Survurlode.


QUOTE
You see a flamer, your response should not be to just flame him back -- you lower yourself to his level if you do.


QUOTE
Let's open that can of worms, as unpleasant as it might be. [...] *I'm not afraid of you, worms!*


QUOTE
"Transformation" can be as simple as a bomb rearranging a building into a debris field.


QUOTE
Far better to be proven wrong than to be wrong without knowing it.


QUOTE
I remember when I was a kid, and I was just playing around, I didn't know this stuff, so I said gas prices were five dollars at my play gas station.

My dad laughed, said gas would never be that expensive.


QUOTE
Toa carrying rifles... as they ride their space shuttles into... Klingon territory...


QUOTE
Kazi [ha]s Rahkshi staffs. (Oooh, Kazi=evil??)


QUOTE
Take an election between two candidates. Obviously, both candidates will get votes. However, one will get more votes, and one will get less. You would be, in this example, voting for the one with less votes (Mr. Olderfanson). You see why the fact that you, one person, did vote for that guy, doesn't prove that he won the election? [...] "Mr. Newerfanson" won the election.


QUOTE
o_O


QUOTE
In general, I do enjoy debates--but I don't enjoy being flamed, no. Nor do I enjoy wasting time when I have tons of PMs I need to reply to and top secret reference projects to work on and all that responding to things that could have been cleared up with more thought before posting, heh. Debates can still get tedious when it seems (please note "seems"!) that a few people refuse to approach them with an open mind.


QUOTE
<_<
>_>
<_>


QUOTE
I didn't even spell "the" right.


QUOTE
Lol. I never said I'm always right! Yeesh, what do I have to do to convince you guys I don't think that? Purposefully take wrong positions or something?


QUOTE
Guess what? I could draw before I learned to write, but does that mean I should get all huffy and insulted at the fact that not everybody shares my particular talent? This is just absurd, isn't it? Did you honestly think that everybody has the same talents and gains proficiency at the same time?



QUOTE
When someone much older than you was a kid, LEGO was wooden toys. [fogie teeth voice]"These newfangled plastic things are insulting! As if there isn't money to be made in good old fashioned woodblock toys!"[/fogie teeth voice]


QUOTE
Can we sing kumbaya yet? Sing it! Koooooooo----oom---bah-----yaaaaaaaaahhhhhh.

Or something... Sing it! You don't even have to agree with me! Just sing it anyways, maaan!

Sing!


QUOTE
Your mistake is that you are thinking in terms of a simplistic "formula" of strength, and thinking that can be used to predict everything. It can't--every situation is different, and sometimes a weak Matoran might catch a glimpse of a passing Rahkshi while a powerful "Toa Ultimaultrasuper" might get blasted to bits when the same Rahkshi actually attacks. You need to be realistic--think in terms of the situation. Stories are based on that--they are a "game of seconds and inches" where dangers both big and small can occur to both powerful and weak people, and how you perform depends on your brains and the time you have to prepare more than your actual power level.


QUOTE
Why did the entirely robotic Bohrok need teeth? Someone explain how that is okay but teeth in Piraka isn't?


QUOTE
Phew. Now, to post, and see if I maxed the text limit out.

Yabo! Hahaha!

_bonesquotes #whatever.2

QUOTE
Thanks X. Thanks D. Thanks X and D. XD


QUOTE
I lazy.


QUOTE
You can make any innovation look bad if you point to the non-innovative ways (the old "normal" ways) and claim they must be followed blindly.


QUOTE
But what I don't get about it is -- why the apparent desire to kill characters off for no reason? In real life you meet tons of people who you will never meet again, and they're not dead. Is that to you a problem? I don't get it -- you'd go insane if you tried to stay in touch with every random old lady that said hi when you were walking the dog...


QUOTE
Yes, my post in this topic is product placement. So sue me.


QUOTE
In addition, high gravity affects spacetime on a fundamental level, slowing time down and bending the spatial brane. Not to be confused with the spacious brain.


QUOTE
It would create a field of electrogravimetry that would pull all nearby matter in and then make it explode. The explosion cloud would take the form of an anchovy.


QUOTE
There's only a slim chance that we exist.


QUOTE
I love taking myself out of context.


QUOTE
I think it's admirable to be careful not to offend people where it makes sense. But at some point, you have to be willing to stand up for yourself and be confident enough that if someone comes at you with an unreasonable accusation, you don't take it.


QUOTE
I think aliens invaded already and have fooled us into thinking they are mere animals who "meow".


QUOTE
Good stories aren't puppet shows. They are tales of life, with realistic characters -- people -- living out their lives, with really minimal "guiding" by the author.


QUOTE
Oh goody, a complainer to blast to oblivion.


QUOTE
To begin with, I disagree strongly with pretending it is "killing off", rather than a serious story being told, with serious themes and life in the story. Characters aren't "killed off". They die.

I find this term somewhat offensive, because it implies the writer kills the character like a TV show host telling a contestant to leave. This is not a game show. It is the events of the storyline that kill the character. That term is merely a psychological shield to avoid the emotion of the moment in the story. IMO, that's a kind of immaturity.


QUOTE
Um.


QUOTE
You can't always get what you want "now now now". Your logic makes no sense -- if you want to know what's in the books, that means you support the books' existence. Yet you apparently want spoilers to go up the day it's out, so in the countries where it is bought, people could just read the spoilers and not buy the book, risking its sales going down and the books ending, and thus no more spoilers for you to read!


QUOTE
Truth = Truth. And nothing else.


QUOTE
I had spammed ten thousand times.


QUOTE
A good comedy is a development, like a story, not a punchline. You start with a situation, and it goes in unexpected, funny ways, which leads into other twists, to a conclusion that often can be more serious than funny, avoiding random cliches and developing enough logic that it doesn't feel like you slapped random nonsense down. Comedies Forum has this bad rap of having a lot of Unfunny Stuff -- I think it's the temptation to write short punchlines drawing on typical one-liner cliches that causes this. The 300 word rule is a good basic start to avoiding that problem.


QUOTE
Dude. My voting precint is a "23". ph34r.gif


QUOTE
And what people are saying about randomosity is true -- I hope that it's not surprising that as a logician, I understand how to be funny (though I won't try in this post ). Logic isn't for Spock who refuses to smile -- you actually need logic in your comedy to make it funny. In my experience, a balance of logic and random nonsense helps -- even logic OF the random nonsense.


QUOTE
I highly recommendate it.


QUOTE
Another mistake a lot of people make is thinking a comedy must be 100% funny -- reality is that that tends to just overwhelm the reader and come off more as spam. If you look at my Survurlode interviews, for example, there is always at least one serious theme that the whole work revolves around. The serious aspects support the humorous, and vice versa.


QUOTE
*strongly approves of the use of the term "bionical"*


QUOTE
Well, my observation has always been the opposite -- more established official facts inspires MORE fan imagination -- at least with imaginative official facts. It was really only once the "gappists" starting complaining, in my observation as a 2003+ member here, about "tons of official facts" that I saw the fanfiction community here really explode with creativity.

Think about it -- imagination feuls imagination. Less imagination doesn't -- it starves imagination.

Search My Blog

_bonesquotes #whatever.3

QUOTE
How much wood would a woodwood wood if a woodwood would would wood?


QUOTE
But my point related to that isn't that I literally think it should be FULLY sun-sized. I'm just saying, there's a whole range, from a little larger than Earth, to a LOT larger, to a TONTONZILLION larger, and it's all possible if the story team just feels like it.


QUOTE
*imagines massive asteriod pulling out a pirate's telescope lol*


QUOTE
GD is NOT for storyline-only discussion. That discussion belongs in S&T.


QUOTE
S&T policies are designed for good reasons, tried, tested, and they work.


QUOTE
Sure I'm sure -- it's Bionicle. Anything's possible.


QUOTE
I never understand these claims -- how do you know what "proportionate" is for that character? He's a fictional character, made out of plastic LEGO parts.

So why get annoyed at it? When you look at a giraffe, do you get annoyed? It makes no sense to me to do so.

Besides, you're setting yourself up for it. Nobody ever told you these characters were supposed to be exactly human.

If you look at an ape, would you say it's done wrong, just because it resembles a human?


QUOTE
I plan not to, but I guess if the site shut down I'd kinda have to, wouldn't I?


QUOTE
...they usually give their jokes when they have the upper hand at the moment, though, or when they've just run into a frustrating difficulty that's not immediately dangerous, which are realistic IMO. When they're in immediate danger, I am not aware that they pause to crack jokes.


QUOTE
I strongly disagree -- everybody capitalizes their name. It's cliche.

(I do not capitalize because 1) I hate being cliche, and 2) it is symbolic of humility.)


QUOTE
I knew you'd say that.


QUOTE
Seriously though, obviously the focus groups like silver, guys -- there's no mystery, those of you portraying it as odd that LEGO keeps using the color. This is how personal taste works -- it differs, and you're gonna find yourself in the minority sometimes. Best get used to it -- that's life.


QUOTE
*lets self dp*


QUOTE
I'm not a soldier, but I know that keeping your sense of humor alive even in dangerous or serious situations can be a huge boon to keeping your sanity.

He who forgets how to laugh forgets how to live.


QUOTE
I heart silver. My favorite metallic. If I had my way, gold would be considered lesser than silver.


QUOTE
The red eye thing is the closest thing you have to evidence, but I could argue that Berix is the traitor for spending time away from the villages, or Ackar is the traitor because his name sounds like Admiral Ackbar and there was a traitor in Star Wars called Darth Vader.


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Ultimately it comes down to this for me -- YOU choose to dissapointed or miserable.

If you expected the universe to be perfect, that was your choice, and really not very sensible of you.


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If I as a writer were to try to appeal to the attitude you express in your post, I would feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells. Everytime I had a cool idea how to use a character, or more importantly logic told me the character naturally would be involved in something, I would have to worry about whether I shouldn't do it as it might offend someone.

That's a miserable way to write, and I wouldn't wish that on the story team, myself, or anyone.


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But one thing. Everyone expects something when they do something.


Very true. For example, when I posted the above post, I expected somebody to reward me with this point, giving me an excuse to discuss it in a separate post so as to give it better focus.


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Therefore, the more "things to expect" from a "donation or whatever the heck you want to call it", the more likely we get mooooolaaaaaaaa. Therefore good.

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I don't see what the anology has to do with this. "Chevys" (or "Chevies") makes sense. Like "Keets" or Morby or my personal favorite for Makuta -- Terry Mack. "Biological Chronicles" referring to beings makes no sense. And as I typed this, a Chevy ad came on TV. They called it "Chevy." Seriously, exact same time.


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Oh my, you're completely irrelevant metaphor makes you look sooo intelligent.


This is obviously getting out of hand, so I guess I have to close it. Also, you failed to answer my question. When a moderator asks you a question, answer it. Capisce? wink.gif

Please do not attack people like that. That is flaming, or at best trolling, both of which are not allowed.


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What does a premier member buy?

1) YOUR right to be on here for free.

2) Their right to be on here.

3) PM perks, like poll-making, blogs, etc.

4) Proto.

No matter how you slice it, sending in that money is NOT just buying proto. Even if proto is all they want, they're still buying YOUR right to be on here for free. Yall should be grateful.

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