Can Toa of air control liquid oxygen or hydrogen?

[Sir Keksalot]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I know, black holes are caused by supernovas and held together by unknown forces we don't fully understand, why do they evaporate and release Hawking radiation? No one knows, there more complex then just collapsing a star into a white dwarf.

 

Okay, then why use that simile?

But the reason black holes happen is gravity. Gravity is why the star collapses.

 

To illustrate why your point was wrong; that's what rhetorical devices are for. Air and water aren't the same chemical. Toa of one cannot control the other, regardless of anything having to do with what state of matter they're in. The fact that they are both fluids has nothing to do with it.

Black holes are caused by stars going supernova and collapsing, regular stars won't cut it...

 

Then why can Toa of air control water vapor?

I know how black holes form; but their formation is caused by gravitational forces. That is my point. What does the type of star have anything to do with it.

 

I have found nothing to substantiate your claim that Toa of Air can control water vapor. According to BioSector01, they can only control actual air. However, they could probably manipulate the air around water vapor to blow it in a certain direction.

There's more too it than just gravitational forces

 

I meant to say Toa of water

But gravity is the reason why it happens. It's all about matter being compressed into a tiny space.

 

As has been stated, real-world physical laws don't apply. Again, the Great Beings may have created Toa to have these restrictions in place. Why is Plasma an element? It's not a specific substance, it's a state of matter. Why is Gravity an element? It's a force, not an actual thing. How do elemental powers even work? Bionicle is part sci-fi, part fantasy; the fantasy element is at work here, and real-world logic cannot be reasonably applied in a way that would make sense.

Okay, one more time, there's more too it then gravity, otherwise a red giant would form a black hole not a white dwarf.

 

Plasma can refer to different things, a state of matter, electrical current, bodily fluid. As said, the books definition of a black hole is flawed, and so may be plasma, gravity is a force, it's one of the 4 fundamental forces, and it's suspected it's caused by force carrying bosons lovingly called theorized gravatons. I'm not sure how a Toa of gravity works or all these other questions, and like I said, if the writer wants to say something that's fine, and I'm not the writer, but I never said the writer was wrong, I suggested a Toa power and why it COULD work, if you don't like it thats fine, and it's not yet part of the story and probably won't be but I'm just proving why it would work. So I don't understand you guys saying the writer didn't intend it, he didn't say anything about it but he didn't say anything against it so why are you all mad about it?

Okay, one more time, GRAVITY IS WHY IT HAPPENS AT ALL. Obviously, there's multiple factors; but the most important one is gravity.

 

Plasma, in the context of Bionicle, refers to a superheated gas-like substance. It's never defined what the plasma actually is. It's not electricity because that would fall under the domain of a Toa of Lightning.

 

Gravity, as one theory goes, is the result of objects causing an impression in space-time like objects resting on a mattress. That is where the force comes from. Ergo, a Toa of Gravity is actually a Toa of Space-time.

 

You are presenting your proposals like they are fact when, in reality, there is no concrete evidence to support them because Greg-senpai has confirmed that Bionicle physics are not like our own. How do we know what the "air" of the Bionicle world even is? Is it really the same gas we breathe? What is their "water?" Nobody is getting mad, you're just presenting theories as if they are solid, undeniable facts. We don't even know if the Great Beings made all Toa to be able to control everything in every state of matter. The rules they set in place remain a mystery, so there is little use in trying to speculate what the rest of their rules are when they don't make sense as it is.

I don't know enough about Toa of plasma, please cite sources.

 

Gravity isn't the initial cause of a black hole.

 

The space time theory isn't a cause of gravity, force carriers of the strong force. Weak force, and electromagnetic force have all been proven, so my theory is more solid.

 

I don't know what I said like fact that wasn't a true fact. Once again Greg doesn't care enough about the story to even give it a satisfactory ending, or to even keep writing it. And what did I say that contradicted him, I'm not "proving" why everything works, I'm saying why this theory could work, everything I said has been based on facts, I can cite you articals. And again, if you don't like the theory thats fine but until either of us gets custody of the series, neither of us can say the others opinion is flat out wrong, and I want a more scientific story so I'm not saying your wrong, just what I want in the story.

 

Cited evidence it takes more than initial gravity to make a black hole:

 

star can collapse under its own weight after its nuclear fuel has been exhausted. Once the energy is gone, a star about as massive as the sun remains as a slowly cooling white dwarf that still has normal matter in it. A more massive star can collapse further. Beyond a certain mass, the star's atoms sweat electrons to the surface, and the body collapses into what is basically a single atom around 10 miles across. This is a neutron star, and it is made out of protons and neutrons with a dusting of electrons on its surface.

When the mass of the star has exceeded even the neutrons' ability to hold up the star, however, the entire body collapses to its final state, that of a black hole.

 

Never in the history of Bionicle has there been an instance of using Plasma powers wherein Plasma could be anything but a superheated gas.

 

Bro. I'm gonna say it one more time. Gravity is the reason black holes are even possible. You said yourself that stars collapse because of their own weight; that is a gravitational force. Gravity is why black holes even happen; they are what bring mass into the small area at all.

 

What do weak and electromagnetic forces have to do with anything you have said? You have proven nothing.

 

You said yourself that you were "proving" your theory; thus, you were stating your theory as fact. Yet, as I said, we don't even know what the rules are. As such, nothing is proven right or wrong.

[Zidonaro]

Is there even Oxygen and Hydrogen in Bionicle? 

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

Is it really necessary for nearly every post to quote a significant fraction of the entire thread? Seriously, I think I spent more time skimming quotes than I did reading actual replies.

 

Anyways:

 

Regarding black holes, I think it worth noting that they can be grouped into three major size categories: stellar mass, super massive, and micro. Star collapse is how stellar mass black holes are theorized to form in our universe. I don't know much about super massive black holes aside from it being theorized that they exist at the core of the Milky way and other galaxies, but there have been multiple theories put forth for how man-made micro black holes might be made(the two main theories that come to mind are sufficiently powerful particle accelerators and sufficiently powerful lasers focused to a sufficiently small point).

 

That said, if your super power is to generate gravitational fields without the need to create matter out of nothing or condense existing matter, there's no reason that, with sufficient power and control, this couldn't be used to generate an event horizon, and even if the effect doesn't fit the scientific definition of a black hole, the result is likely to be called a black hole by any layman observer with a cultural background similar to the posters on this board.

 

Also, contrary to popular belief, black holes are not cosmic vacuum cleaners. Replace the Sun with a solar mass black hole and the orbits of the planets would be unchanged(most, if not all, life as we know it would still be doomed, but from the loss of the sun's lifegiving warm, not from the black hole tearing us apart or crushing us).

 

Also,

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As for protodermis having such highly variable properties, may I direct your attention to the allotropes of pure carbon? Graphite, Graphene, Diamond, Buckminster Fullerene, other fullerenes, carbon nanotubes, and amorphous carbon are all pure carbon, but their differing molecular structures give them vastly different physical and chemical properties. Not to mention how dissimilar the solid, liquid, and gaseous states of the same substance can be. Even if the hardest of hard SF interpretations require it to be some kind of exotic matter, is its variability really that much more extraordinary than carbon's?

 

I also think it worth noting that the four classical elements correspond quite nicely to the 4 most common phases of matter:

Earth - solid

Water - liquid

Air - Gas

Fire - Plasma

 

And, in what we'd consider a natural state for an Earth like planet, most non-living solids are some kind of earth, most liquids are aqueous solutions, all gases contribute to the mixture we call air, and plasma and fire are practically synonymous. On a related note, in this view, Avatar making Lightning a sub-element of fire makes much more sense than all the systems that make lightning a sub-element of air since lightning is the other naturally occurring form of plasma you'd see on an Earth-like planet. Similarly, Avatar including Metal(refined earth) and lava(molten earth) as sub-elements of Earth and plant and bloodbending as sub-elements of water as most life as we know it is mostly water. And now I want to read a rationalist Avatar fic staring either an Earth Avatar in the present day or a fire avatar in a near future setting.

[lessovikk4]

Okay I'm sorry I even started this topic because I guess we're all just gonna disagree about theoretical concepts, so I request this topic to be closed.

[Sumiki]

Okay I'm sorry I even started this topic because I guess we're all just gonna disagree about theoretical concepts, so I request this topic to be closed.

Alrighty then.