I really feel like Star Wars missed its potential. Force powers are weak, story is kinda inconsistent, and for the PT the story is pretty lame. It could have been much better. Make Mace a Dark Jedi, and have some kind of wierd clone thing for Sidious/Palaptine...

Now you should check out the Star Wars cartoons (1 & 2, and then, though I doubt you want to, play Jedi Knight III: Jedi Academy. The latter is one of my favprite games ever. The story line is good, the characters are awesome, the saber combat is epic, the force powers are well balanced, and it's awesometown.

And yeah, Han did shoot first.

> 55555

Not recognizing the droids seems plausable to me, since there are probably millions of those models in existence in the galaxy. Plus, didn't 3PO receive a memory wipe, which would prevent them from being recognizable by their behavior, as 3PO would have changed quite a bit?

Jedi becoming a myth probably was an impression the Empire cultivated and tried to force into the public's mind. Although that doesn't explain why everyone seems to have forgotten them, yes.

As for Leia remembering Padme, I've heard some stuff about there supposedly being Force-memories that Force-sensitives can have from as long ago in their lives as near birth. That one does seem dubious, though. Of course, she could have been referring to Bail Organa's wife, as I don't really remember the context of her saying that.

Some of those it seems explanations may concievably be thought out. But yeah, there are a lot of consistency gripes like that. Shame they didn't iron more of those out.

~B~

What a relief it is to read something that doesn't completely bash the PT (and on the internet, no less!). I enjoyed the prequels when I first saw them and, despite various problems, still enjoy them every now and then.

But the OT really is a delight to watch, especially back to back (or within a weekend). And yes, Han shot first. I'm glad that the version I got for Christmas has both original and "fixed" versions (you can guess which ones I watch).

I've never tried watching all six at once though (and of course I'd watch 4-6 and then 1-3), but have been tempted before. I bet I'd pick up on all the differences and inconsistencies like what you've noted.

-CF

I watch them but don't take any notice. The Lego Star Wars interests me more, tells the story, and has no errors.

Agreeing with most of what you said except for one thing: The design of the Spacecraft.

While it may look "dumbed down" the more correct term would "reverse engineering". Since you already mentioned the EU: Fighters like the ARC170 from RotS are ancestors of the T65 X-Wing we all know and love. They're even built by the same company, before the went rogue and joined the Alliance.

Same goes for a lot of the other vehicles, like the AT-TE and also the Venator destroyers. Even the V-Wings appearing have the old TIE-fighter engine sound.

Back to writing though, I found that the stories they came up with for the 3d-animated series were quite enjoyable and they brought back a lot of the original humor from OT.

Now you should check out the Star Wars cartoons (1 & 2, and then, though I doubt you want to, play Jedi Knight III: Jedi Academy. The latter is one of my favprite games ever. The story line is good, the characters are awesome, the saber combat is epic, the force powers are well balanced, and it's awesometown.

I played the original Dark Forces to death, and played a bit of Jedi Knight. Never got further in the series than that though - but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it. I just need to find a time to do it.

Some of those it seems explanations may concievably be thought out. But yeah, there are a lot of consistency gripes like that. Shame they didn't iron more of those out.

 

~B~

I'm not going to address your explanations individually. I'll just say that you can try to rationalize everything you'd like to, and that's fine. But I can't help but feel if Lucas watched his original movies a few more times he could have written the prequels in a way that would have avoided all this completely.

But the OT really is a delight to watch, especially back to back (or within a weekend). And yes, Han shot first. I'm glad that the version I got for Christmas has both original and "fixed" versions (you can guess which ones I watch).

Yeah, the only problem with the original cuts is that they're fullscreen as opposed to widescreen, so you have a big black border around the whole thing on your TV. They only have 2.0 sound too, not 5.1. Other than that though, I still feel they're superior to the 'special editions.'

Agreeing with most of what you said except for one thing: The design of the Spacecraft.

While it may look "dumbed down" the more correct term would "reverse engineering". Since you already mentioned the EU: Fighters like the ARC170 from RotS are ancestors of the T65 X-Wing we all know and love. They're even built by the same company, before the went rogue and joined the Alliance.

Same goes for a lot of the other vehicles, like the AT-TE and also the Venator destroyers. Even the V-Wings appearing have the old TIE-fighter engine sound.

 

Back to writing though, I found that the stories they came up with for the 3d-animated series were quite enjoyable and they brought back a lot of the original humor from OT.

I liked the ARC-170s and thought those were a good predecessor to the X-wing. Same for the walkers in Attack and Revenge - not too obvious but you can see where the inspiration comes from. But some ships, like the shuttle I mentioned, don't fit in that category - what is the point of that little stub of a top fin, and if that's all you need why would you later build one with a giant fin? I also didn't like the inclusion of the classic TIE engine sound, or the name V-wing in general (there was already a V-wing in the EU George!), since it wasn't a TIE fighter and didn't really look like one. I'm not using the design of the ship as an example, but I think the sound use was inappropriate.

The stub fin houses the shield-emitter for the shuttles main-body to boost the main-shield generated by the long wings and a heat-emitter to keep the temperature of the shield generators down.

The Lambda-shuttle from the OT was of course more advanced, so it had a bigger shield or something in that big wing.

You're right about the V-wing but the resemblance is there already, like the cockpit of the JSF as well as the cheaper-by-the-dozen approach with the V-Wing and it's stubby unfolded wing profile.

As for it's sound I've got a real-life example. Porsche and VW both have an SUV in their list of cars. The Porsche Cayenne and the VW Touareg. They look pretty much different, but as it turns out, the chassis is pretty much identical.

The fact remains though, PT still seems half-baked. I guess that is what happens if you're the biggest boss and nobody speaks against if something seems a bit fishy.

Such as Leia remembering her mother and Han who's never heard of Jedi despite being such a well-ventured man.

The stub fin houses the shield-emitter for the shuttles main-body to boost the main-shield generated by the long wings and a heat-emitter to keep the temperature of the shield generators down.

The Lambda-shuttle from the OT was of course more advanced, so it had a bigger shield or something in that big wing.

Wow that is one of the geekiest things I've seen in a while, and I run a fan site for a kid's toy line. That is impressive. I'm serious - be proud.

All this starfighter talk makes me wish they would do a "TIE Fighter" remake. That game was solid.

All this starfighter talk makes me wish they would do a "TIE Fighter" remake. That game was solid.

Oh man - please! I would buy that in an instant. And then figure out what joystick or computer upgrades I need to make it run and buy those too.

It may just be that I first watched it post-PT, but I never thought it was all that big of a deal. Sure, there are lots of inconsistencies, but those were already explained for me, so they never seemed to be that big of a deal.

One thing though, on the "Why didn't Darth Vader recognize C-3P0 and R2-D2?" thing: I always thought that he did recognize them, but never mentioned it because he didn't want to mention it. After all, Obi-Wan didn't mention who R2 really was when he first saw him for his own reasons. I figure DV did the same. And besides, DV works for you, so why don't you just go ask him?

Although I really have to agree. OT was much better. I remember that the first time I watched Attack of the Clones that I thought it was unusually boring from what I expected.

The special editions I didn't think were bad at all though. I always prefer those, mainly because they still have the puppets, for the most part, screen format, and having everything in them. And I almost never watch the original version of episode six, when the special edition is available because as awkward as the CG Animation is, the puppets in Jabba's barge are even worse--Particularly Sy Snootles.

One thing though, on the "Why didn't Darth Vader recognize C-3P0 and R2-D2?" thing: I always thought that he did recognize them, but never mentioned it because he didn't want to mention it. After all, Obi-Wan didn't mention who R2 really was when he first saw him for his own reasons. I figure DV did the same. And besides, DV works for you, so why don't you just go ask him?

Here's an idea - why not just not include C-3P0? Then you avoid it entirely. R2 certainly didn't need to have as large of a role either. Vader and Obi-Wan may have 'chosen' to not acknowledge them, but what about R2-D2? He knew Obi Wan and Anakin, why did he never mention it? Furthermore, what happened to all of R2's gadgets that he used in the PT, like the rocket boosters.

Again, not denying that there are no reasonable explanations, but the fact that they have to be explained after the fact is what really bugs me.

P.S. I'm watching the ANH Special Edition now - we'll see how that goes.

I have an explanation for the thing about Leia remembering Padme. In the novelization of Ep. III, it is stated quite clearly that Luke has his eyes closed when he's born and Leia has hers open, which explains why Leia only remembers images.

 

Yes, it's a pathetic and somewhat ridiculous explanation that I don't particularly like, but there you have it.

 

-

Except nobody would remember the first five seconds of their life and even if somebody could I bet they'd rather remember how hard it was to get that first breath of air...

I guess we can assume that Lucas failed on that one...big time.

Again, not denying that there are no reasonable explanations, but the fact that they have to be explained after the fact is what really bugs me.

Yeah, retcons always seem to take something away. Sorta like how BIONICLE solved the whole "they can't remember Metru Nui" thing by saying they had amnesia. Which meant that Takua had amnesia three times, I believe, if you include the Time Slip.

I own the 1997 special editions on VHS and that's what I watch. Honestly I find them to be the last great hurrah of Star Wars - the stuff that's added, like the X-Wings taking off and the bolstered Tatooine scenery and the scene with Jabba in the original film are good stuff, adding more flavour rather than detracting from the film.

It was after the prequels came about that things started getting mucked up. I have no intention of purchasing the new DVD special editions, with Sebastian Shaw getting cut out and Boba Fett's voice beign changed (which makes NO SENSE) and all the other tomfoolery and japery designed to infect the lovely original trilogy with the misguided mishaps of the prequels.

To me, the original cuts and the 97 editions are good, and everything else leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

One thing though, on the "Why didn't Darth Vader recognize C-3P0 and R2-D2?" thing: I always thought that he did recognize them, but never mentioned it because he didn't want to mention it. After all, Obi-Wan didn't mention who R2 really was when he first saw him for his own reasons. I figure DV did the same. And besides, DV works for you, so why don't you just go ask him?

Here's an idea - why not just not include C-3P0? Then you avoid it entirely. R2 certainly didn't need to have as large of a role either. Vader and Obi-Wan may have 'chosen' to not acknowledge them, but what about R2-D2? He knew Obi Wan and Anakin, why did he never mention it? Furthermore, what happened to all of R2's gadgets that he used in the PT, like the rocket boosters.

 

Again, not denying that there are no reasonable explanations, but the fact that they have to be explained after the fact is what really bugs me.

 

P.S. I'm watching the ANH Special Edition now - we'll see how that goes.

I think the idea behind Artoo's gadgets going missing is that Bail had them taken out, for the most part, or they stopped working over the sixteen or seventeen year gap between III and IV. That's a lot of time for things inside a droid to be tinkered with.

I have an explanation for the thing about Leia remembering Padme. In the novelization of Ep. III, it is stated quite clearly that Luke has his eyes closed when he's born and Leia has hers open, which explains why Leia only remembers images.

 

Yes, it's a pathetic and somewhat ridiculous explanation that I don't particularly like, but there you have it.

 

-

 

Except nobody would remember the first five seconds of their life and even if somebody could I bet they'd rather remember how hard it was to get that first breath of air...

I guess we can assume that Lucas failed on that one...big time.

I believe official word is that it's a Force impression, since Leia has as much Force potential as Luke (and realizes it eventually, according to EU canon).

I still posit that doing simple things like not giving him jet boosters and the like would have avoided the debate completely.

By the way - I watched the most recent 'Special Editions' over this past week. Return of the Jedi was by far the most tampered with, in my opinion. The whole 'Jedi Rocks' sequence, the Audrey II Sarlacc, the celebrations, and Hayden Christiansen. I don't think any of them really added to the movie. Empire Strikes Back seemed the least-changed, except for the annoying use of Temuera Morrison's voice instead of Jeremy Bulloch's. A New Hope was in the middle - I thought they added way too many scenes with Rontos and Dewbacks, the Jabba scene was okay (since it had been shot back in the day but not included), and any other changes were really minor.

I still enjoy the originals the most.