Gah I've spent too long trying to put my thoughts into words and it's not working, so this'll probably look weird.

I'm getting the vibe that you feel like bronies have been through/are going through much persecution/discrimination.

Gah I've spent too long trying to put my thoughts into words and it's not working, so this'll probably look weird.

I'm getting the vibe that you feel like bronies have been through much persecution/discrimination.

Hardly persecution or discrimination. I'm not oppressed by any means, and I wouldn't compare the hate I might see directed at bronies with racism or misogyny or homophobia or other forms of hatred based on intrinsic, unchanging parts of people (that in turn are used to justify crimes or abuse). At worst bronies are stereotyped or held up as an example of problems with society. But even that affects me emotionally, especially when it comes from people whom I generally agree with and consider friends. And while I'm sure they mostly consider me an exception, that's not good enough—I would hardly have been exposed to the fandom if not from genuinely positive people in the community. The fact is that I can keep tabs on the fan community through reasonably well-moderated channels and never have to deal with the kind of perversion or misogyny that is apparently endemic to it—and if that's the case, then does that stereotype really reflect a representative portion of the community, or just its disorganized underbelly?

Last time I made an entry like this, I was generally told that my efforts would be better spent improving the community itself, rather than trying to improve outside perceptions of it. That's something I just couldn't do, since I have no standing or leadership position in the fandom. As a point of reference, my tumblr has fourteen followers, most of them from here on BZP. My twitter has about twice that, but BZPower still makes up the majority. I have no voice in the brony community, but I felt like I did on BZP, so I thought that maybe if I tried to point out that bronies aren't all scum to some of the folks here, they might take my words to heart. We all saw how that went—apparently my voice here doesn't matter as much as I had thought.

In any case—this is what I kept being told to do, but couldn't start myself. A push from within the fandom to promote the best parts of the community, and disavow the worst. So I thought by sharing it here, and on all my social media (limited though that may be) I'd finally be doing my part.

I don't put too much personal stake in fandoms myself.

Even here my activity is pretty low, generally.

The reason I liked the show wasn't because of the fandom or the reaction of other people by any means. I genuinely just liked the show, like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Powerpuff girls (have you seen their Beatles episode? SO MANY PUUUUUNS), or any other show for that matter.

And sure, some fans come out with some really cool stuff, like fun parodies or neat fanart, but I honestly don't keep up with the fanbase that much, or with any fanbase for any show I like, really.

I gotta say, it kinda bums me out that this fanbase is getting so much attention. I mean, to each their own and all, and I'm glad the show is successful. That's cool. But I think people are obsessing over the wrong thing. With any other show I like, if it's not your thing it's just not your thing. But this one? Simply because of the audience interested in it, somehow that makes it something significant towards other people. It really shouldn't be.

Personally I think the obsession over the fanbase is overrated. And don't get me wrong here; if you like a show, that's cool and all, but blowing it out of proportion to the point where you label yourself just for liking a show seems kinda silly to me.

It would be like calling myself a Tutu for liking Princess Tutu or being a Bionic for liking Bionicle. It's kinda strange, even for a fanbase in my opinion. Also, with all of the debate that stems from discussion of the show's fans (not even the show itself, mind you), it feels more like people are just using the show as a cheap way to get into an argument. And that's kinda low in my opinion.

(I'm not saying that everyone does this or anything, but it's something I've noticed and it kinda bugs me)

I don't put too much personal stake in fandoms myself.

 

Even here my activity is pretty low, generally.

 

The reason I liked the show wasn't because of the fandom or the reaction of other people by any means. I genuinely just liked the show, like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Powerpuff girls (have you seen their Beatles episode? SO MANY PUUUUUNS), or any other show for that matter.

 

And sure, some fans come out with some really cool stuff, like fun parodies or neat fanart, but I honestly don't keep up with the fanbase that much, or with any fanbase for any show I like, really.

 

I gotta say, it kinda bums me out that this fanbase is getting so much attention. I mean, to each their own and all, and I'm glad the show is successful. That's cool. But I think people are obsessing over the wrong thing. With any other show I like, if it's not your thing it's just not your thing. But this one? Simply because of the audience interested in it, somehow that makes it something significant towards other people. It really shouldn't be.

 

Personally I think the obsession over the fanbase is overrated. And don't get me wrong here; if you like a show, that's cool and all, but blowing it out of proportion to the point where you label yourself just for liking a show seems kinda silly to me.

 

It would be like calling myself a Tutu for liking Princess Tutu or being a Bionic for liking Bionicle. It's kinda strange, even for a fanbase in my opinion. Also, with all of the debate that stems from discussion of the show's fans (not even the show itself, mind you), it feels more like people are just using the show as a cheap way to get into an argument. And that's kinda low in my opinion.

 

(I'm not saying that everyone does this or anything, but it's something I've noticed and it kinda bugs me)

The main reason I like the show is indeed the show itself. But the fandom helps, too. It helped at the start (I might never have tried watching the show had I not read about how amazing it was and how it was attracting an audience well outside its target demographic of young girls), and it helped moving forward (the Boston meetup group I joined to watch episodes with while at my last college comprised the only actual friends I made while at that school, and I joined a similar group when I got back home). And when I was between seasons and needed a dose of happiness, the online community typically delivered with amazing fanart and creativity.

It's true that the brony community may have gotten a disproportionate amount of exposure thanks to its novelty ("Look at these boys who like girl things!"). But honestly I don't see how that's a problem. If anything, it's brought exposure to a generally good cartoon, the likes of which is typically ignored by most news media as "kids stuff" (or worse, "girls stuff"—it's certainly regrettable that one of the best girls shows on TV gets the majority of its coverage due to male interest in it). As an example, you mentioned Powerpuff Girls in your post. When I was young and that was on TV, I generally dismissed it outright as a dumb cartoon. I only learned how ignorant I had been much later, when reading about the genuinely good humor and educated references shows like that made on sites such as TV Tropes. Realizing that that kind of snobbery had made me miss out on a lot of amazing stories was part of why I was willing to give MLP a chance—but I may have realized it much sooner if I had seen shows like PPG discussed in the news back in their heyday.

Fans of specific media labeling themselves is really nothing new, nor is it exclusive to MLP. Star Trek fans are "Trekkies", Firefly fans are "Browncoats", Lego fans are "AFOLs" (or "TFOLs" for the younger set), and Homestuck fans are, apparently, "Homestucks". A label helps to connect fans of a niche interest to one another, to create an automatic connection between people ("You like that thing. I also happen to like that thing."). For a person like me, who is socially awkward and has trouble engaging with strangers, that kind of shared experience is priceless.

As for people using the fandom to get into arguments, while that may happen, that's certainly not why I brought it up. I brought it up because people I'm close to were stereotyping the fan community as a whole, and it hurt. I don't care whether all my friends like the show—I just want them to understand that it and the fandom surrounding it can be a positive thing, and that it certainly has been for me.

Haha, you raise some good points. ^^

As for the label discussion, this may be a good moment to say that I never really understood "Trekkies" either (or any of those other things. Also AFOL could cover a wide variety of products, so maybe Lego isn't the best example. I probably should have stuck to shows earlier). Also, Trekkies applies to either gender, but the show's fan labeling has two sides: bronies and pegasisters. It's kinda strange to me, because the two terms explain essentially the same thing (a fan of a show), but due to the nature of the fanbase, they are separated. This case of labeling to me seems a bit... well, odd compared to others for this reason. Also, because some people are for some reason ideologically sensitive about the fanbase, there are probably a few different definitions for the terms (it's why I hate labels over trivial things. Like, for example, some people hear "trekkie" and apply the definition of "nerd" or "geek" to it. And then we delve into the distinction of geek and nerd, and I shall not go there again, sir. One brutal war was enough, thank you very much. ... What are we talking about again?)

But my point is, some people can get pretty extreme over simple labels. If someone told me they were a trekkie or a brony, I would literally have no clue what they are like aside from one point of interest in their leisure activities. Those things don't have any connection to any characteristics of the person in my opinion. And, while you've said it's just a way for fans to connect (which I'm sure they do), I kinda get a sense sometimes that people think the term means more than it actually does (I swear I am trying to explain myself here, I am just poorly worded right now). But, I'm sure it's nothing new. Plenty of people can obsess over labels. The ones connected to this show are just the popular ones right now, so that's why I'm talking about them. Anyway, I think I've talked myself into that good old philosophical circle, or at least am close to it now, so I'll stop.

Anyway, on pretty much everything else you brought up, I agree with. Kinda.

I was that kid who watched a show about preschool girls fighting giant monsters with superpowers and thought it was awesome. Because of that, I think I might be missing out a bit on the "missing out on good shows" thing you mentioned.

Though I can relate a bit. I admit that I didn't understand the obsession over My Little Pony everywhere on the internet. I brought it up on Facebook, and then my brother KK told me about the quality of the production staff behind it, including Lauren Faust. After that I got an idea of why it was so popular to a point where it didn't bother me anymore, and then eventually I decided to give it a shot. I was blind-sided at first, but I tend to be blind-sided by a lot of good shows. Like Avatar The Last Airbender and even YuGiOh when I was a kid (and okay that second show was terrible, but for a kid it was fun).

Haha, you raise some good points. ^^

 

As for the label discussion, this may be a good moment to say that I never really understood "Trekkies" either (or any of those other things. Also AFOL could cover a wide variety of products, so maybe Lego isn't the best example. I probably should have stuck to shows earlier). Also, Trekkies applies to either gender, but the show's fan labeling has two sides: bronies and pegasisters. It's kinda strange to me, because the two terms explain essentially the same thing (a fan of a show), but due to the nature of the fanbase, they are separated. This case of labeling to me seems a bit... well, odd compared to others for this reason. Also, because some people are for some reason ideologically sensitive about the fanbase, there are probably a few different definitions for the terms (it's why I hate labels over trivial things. Like, for example, some people hear "trekkie" and apply the definition of "nerd" or "geek" to it. And then we delve into the distinction of geek and nerd, and I shall not go there again, sir. One brutal war was enough, thank you very much. ... What are we talking about again?)

 

But my point is, some people can get pretty extreme over simple labels. If someone told me they were a trekkie or a brony, I would literally have no clue what they are like aside from one point of interest in their leisure activities. Those things don't have any connection to any characteristics of the person in my opinion. And, while you've said it's just a way for fans to connect (which I'm sure they do), I kinda get a sense sometimes that people think the term means more than it actually does (I swear I am trying to explain myself here, I am just poorly worded right now). But, I'm sure it's nothing new. Plenty of people can obsess over labels. The ones connected to this show are just the popular ones right now, so that's why I'm talking about them. Anyway, I think I've talked myself into that good old philosophical circle, or at least am close to it now, so I'll stop.

 

Anyway, on pretty much everything else you brought up, I agree with. Kinda.

 

I was that kid who watched a show about preschool girls fighting giant monsters with superpowers and thought it was awesome. Because of that, I think I might be missing out a bit on the "missing out on good shows" thing you mentioned.

 

Though I can relate a bit. I admit that I didn't understand the obsession over My Little Pony everywhere on the internet. I brought it up on Facebook, and then my brother KK told me about the quality of the production staff behind it, including Lauren Faust. After that I got an idea of why it was so popular to a point where it didn't bother me anymore, and then eventually I decided to give it a shot. I was blind-sided at first, but I tend to be blind-sided by a lot of good shows. Like Avatar The Last Airbender and even YuGiOh when I was a kid (and okay that second show was terrible, but for a kid it was fun).

The Brony/Pegasister divide is a complex one. Many female fans consider themselves Bronies, but Pegasister was posited as a "female counterpart" and many fans adopted that as well. As a male fan, I figure they can call themselves whatever they want (and it would be wrong for me to insist that all female fans are Bronies or that none of them are, as I've seen some fans do, unfortunately). I do think the labeling is helpful, though, since it distinguishes the periphery demographic (males, teens, and adults) from the target audience, in the same way that AFOL does. And that division is important for the same reasons as it is in the Lego fandom—it ideally should remind the older fans that the franchise does not revolve around them.

Re: Missing out on good shows, my parents heavily moderated my TV usage as a kid, and combined with my early achievements in school (before my learning disabilities began to hinder my progress) and my difficulty making friends, it gave me a regrettable sense of superiority. I wasn't watching mindless action show like Power Rangers or stupid cartoons like Rugrats, I was watching educational shows like Arthur, only branching into cartoons like Pokémon and Teen Titans when I got older. But even then I felt "above" girly-seeming shows like Powerpuff Girls or shows with absurdist humor like Spongebob, and would rush to turn off the TV when they came on. I suppose that changed when my little brother (who has always been more social than I was as a kid) started watching things like Spongebob, and to my surprise they actually turned out to be fun. Then the later discovery of sites like TV Tropes showed me the similarities between the shows, books and media I enjoyed as a kid and shows I had once casually dismissed. By the time I was in college I had pretty much realized what a stick-in-the-mud I had been, so when I heard about MLP and how, thanks to a talented team with a coherent vision for the brand, it was attracting viewers from my demographic, I ended up seeking it out.

There's a parallel story going on throughout that whole thing about my awakening to social justice issues, feminism, and gay rights, but that's a HUGE topic and I've probably rambled for too long anyway. TL;DR, I was a cool dude as a kid and only learned better much later in life.

Well, I think I've said pretty much everything at this point. However I will say that Lego reminds me in many other ways that the franchise does not talor to adult fans. (And I don't care what the box says, I am not too old to purchase that set).

It was nice talking with you, though! You seem to have a good head on your shoulders.

That's pretty cool how you got into the show. But yeah, let's keep this to talking about a show. This is a kid-friendly site after all.

To be honest, you don't need to hold a leadership position within a fandom or community if you want to change it. Calling out disgusting behavior, dangerous statements, or similar is what most people mean when they say that since, if the people are worth respecting at all, they might learn not to continue with those comments, phrases, or come to understand that displaying graphic content (gore, or otherwise) of a kids show on either forums dedicated to it (which should be PG, given the target audience of the show), or that leaving it untagged for anyone to stumble across isn't appropriate. 

Simply telling other people "we're not all like this" doesn't solve any problems that do exist and, if you don't want people thinking as such, then one would need to proactively try to reign in or completely remove some of the more detestable things that do come up when it's found. 

Enoy the show, enjoy the fandom, and yes there are plenty of people who use the label "brony" who aren't dangerous people who create unsafe spaces for those the show is directed at. But to say such people aren't there, or that they ought be ignored, isn't going to help the situations where those people may attempt  to do something dangerous or may put works derived from the show that really shouldn't be put in public spaces that ought be safe for children who like the show. 

To be honest, you don't need to hold a leadership position within a fandom or community if you want to change it. Calling out disgusting behavior, dangerous statements, or similar is what most people mean when they say that since, if the people are worth respecting at all, they might learn not to continue with those comments, phrases, or come to understand that displaying graphic content (gore, or otherwise) of a kids show on either forums dedicated to it (which should be PG, given the target audience of the show), or that leaving it untagged for anyone to stumble across isn't appropriate. 

 

Simply telling other people "we're not all like this" doesn't solve any problems that do exist and, if you don't want people thinking as such, then one would need to proactively try to reign in or completely remove some of the more detestable things that do come up when it's found. 

 

Enoy the show, enjoy the fandom, and yes there are plenty of people who use the label "brony" who aren't dangerous people who create unsafe spaces for those the show is directed at. But to say such people aren't there, or that they ought be ignored, isn't going to help the situations where those people may attempt  to do something dangerous or may put works derived from the show that really shouldn't be put in public spaces that ought be safe for children who like the show. 

...Except, near as I can tell, nowhere in this entry or the comments did anyone say that A. such people are nonexistent, or that B. they should be swept under the rug and treated like they don't exist?

Also, when Lyichir said "That's something I just couldn't do, since I have no standing or leadership position in the fandom.", I think - and if I'm wrong he can feel free to correct me - that he meant more that he doesn't exactly have sway with anyone of note in the fandom. For most people, if they're a well-known member of the community, and they make X art or Y song or something of the sort, are they more likely to listen to the three people they've never heard of who thought it was in poor taste, or the 2,000+ people, including a multitude of people they consider of sound moral judgement and are in good standing with, that think it's great and genuinely like it?

I'm not saying it's good or just that things are like that, nor am I trying to justify or defend such content, I'm just saying that he's not wrong when he says that he, and most people in the community, only have so much power to make positive change in the fandom at-large, simply because our status and voice in the community are less than that of others, and as such hold less sway, and with fewer people. It's the same way that if I called out member X, it would have significantly less weight with a lot of members than if, say, B6 or Bfa did.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try, and speaking for myself personally, I do make an effort to improve the fandom. But he's not wrong when he says that there's limits to the impact he can have simply because of standing in the community.