I like flat-chested MOCs.

Breasts help make the Mocs more femine. Although I don't understand why MU characters would need them.

I have always withheld the scientific standpoint of things: Bionicles (atleast MU charies) don't reproduce. Hence, biologically, it makes no sense from a scientific standpoint.

So far, no one's been able to prove me wrong.

I have always withheld the scientific standpoint of things: Bionicles (atleast MU charies) don't reproduce. Hence, biologically, it makes no sense from a scientific standpoint.

 

So far, no one's been able to prove me wrong.

Explain Roodaka then.

I have always withheld the scientific standpoint of things: Bionicles (atleast MU charies) don't reproduce. Hence, biologically, it makes no sense from a scientific standpoint.

 

So far, no one's been able to prove me wrong.

Explain Roodaka then.

Owned

Gali Mata had one breast in the center of her chest.

I like flat-chested MOCs.

second.

I like flat-chested MOCs.

This, but not from the same standpoint.

Personally, if a MoCist can make a female character appear feminine without the use of breasts on the design, I find that creative.

I have no problem with breasts being used or not used really. It's a MOC, you make it however you want to. Though having Nuva pauldrons looks a bit weird however you do it

When there is no piece to be used as breasts you complain that it doesn't look female. When the MOCer gives it breasts, you complain that it's improperly proportioned.

That's like complaining about people being Democrats and Republicans in the same state.

Unless you're complaining about people who do the same thing. Which then would be considered a case of unpleasable fanbase - but seriously, links?

If you're going to complain about the breasts being too big at the same time you complain about them being too small, suggest a better design rather than showing us something useless we already know the appearance of, such as a basic human female sketch that you can't apply to a three-dimensional object.

So, basically, you want people to tell others' their own ideas for a design? Fair enough, but, unfortunately, that's not how criticism works. Criticism is telling you what you did wrong and giving you an idea of how to fix it - you're describing mollycoddling, there.

That's like complaining about people being Democrats and Republicans in the same state.

 

Unless you're complaining about people who do the same thing. Which then would be considered a case of unpleasable fanbase - but seriously, links?

One moment, I shall see if I can find some from recently.

So, basically, you want people to tell others' their own ideas for a design? Fair enough, but, unfortunately, that's not how criticism works. Criticism is telling you what you did wrong and giving you an idea of how to fix it - you're describing mollycoddling, there.

1. I'm well-aware of how criticism works.

2. Technically you described constructive criticism, not criticism in general.

3. There's a difference between "Nice, but the design could some reworking here" and "Insanely disproportional, it's terrible" without any help whatsoever.

4. Mainly what I'm annoyed with to be honest is less the criticism, and more things like this that are just haughty and arrogant.

1. Cool.

2. Does it matter? If anything, that should work out in my favor, considering that CC is the best kind, and you could argue that nonconstructive would be borderline flaming. My point being is that I tend to see criticism as something like this:

The dogs ate an cat. > Incorrect statement

The dogs ate an cat. > Criticism

The dogs ate an cat. (This sentence sucks.) >Flaming.

The dogs ate an (should be 'a') cat. > Mollycoddling.

of course, that's a rather weak example, since anyone should know the difference between 'a' and 'an', but I'd rather not post an essay.

3. See 2.

4. Alright, pretending that you didn't make this entry in response to DV (although PMing him would have been better than calling him out in public)... you have to admit that the picture helps quite a bit. Just because you can't get it 95% correct doesn't mean you auto-fail. It was just a bunch of proportions for her to consider (like, for example, a quick lookover would show that the thighs were pretty massive, the arms thin, breasts wide (or the shoulders were too hunched), etc).

1. Indeed.

2. You're misconstruing my point.

3. Same to you.

4. First off, I didn't. That was just the comment that got me annoyed enough to rant on it. And to the second point, what I'm saying though is that A. A woman knows more about how to make a realistic looking woman than he does in all likely scenarios and B. How does one apply that to plastic?

I have always withheld the scientific standpoint of things: Bionicles (atleast MU charies) don't reproduce. Hence, biologically, it makes no sense from a scientific standpoint.

 

So far, no one's been able to prove me wrong.

Explain Roodaka then.

Owned

Until there's a quote from Greg or Lego that those were actually breasts, you're argument is from a standpoint of ignorance; for all we know, it could of been extra armor that happened to be piled up in the upper chest.

2. Then what is your point? Criticism is bad?

4.

-A. So, one, by that logic, I, a Chinese guy, would know more about China than a white guy? And two, having looked over DV's past mocs, I'd say that yes, he does know how to do that stuff, and how to apply that to plastic. I mean, I call them pictures. I look at one, I say, 'hey, her shoulders are narrower than a man's!'

-B. If it is more or less your intent to make it look feminine, then yeah, it does.

2. Criticism that's not helpful and is just being overly negative instead of looking at the whole? Yes. Criticism that is helpful? No. A lot of the criticism I see for the whole breasts issue though is just blatant "OMG BREASTS NOT BZP APPROPRIATE", "Too huge" or "She looks like a guy". If people give advice then I'm fine with it, but the vast majority of it is useless shouting.

4. A. If I were to say yes to this, then that'd mean I speak Hebrew and could guide you through Israel, so I'll say now that you're misconstruing again. There's a difference between ethnicity and a man giving a woman advice on making breasts on something. It's kind of hard to argue that the person that doesn't have them knows more about them than the person who does. Also telling a woman what real women look like is just daft. And to the second, alright then, if he is that skilled(I'm not saying he isn't; I'm a fan of his work, but I couldn't think of a better way to phrase this, so I apologize if it comes across like that), then why doesn't he give advice rather than just linking a few images? It's not helpful to throw media at people even if the reasoning makes sense. What is helpful is sed media plus advice on how to apply it. Not everyone is as skilled as him, and as such advice should be given.

B. "How does one apply that to plastic?" "If it is more or less your intent to make it look feminine, then yeah, it does."

Please rephrase.

1. But that's sort of the thing. DV didn't say 'lady looks like a dude' and ends that story. He said that, and then pointed out how it could be changed, via the pictures.

2. A.

-Point.

-Not necessarily. If you're a lady, then you don't look at yourself from the third person view. If anything, other people would have a better idea of what you look like.

-True, but I think that would settle for something along the lines of mollycoddling. It's like the difference between Middle school LA essays and those of high school. In MS, a common prompt would tell you to write an essay about a quote and then tell you how to do so, such as approaching it from characterization or whatever, while HS gives you a quote and leaves you to respond to it in whatever manner you deem best. Maybe DV didn't know how to help change the moc (since thunderthighs were pretty much integrated and all), so he had to settle for a picture. After all, telling people to use X piece for Y effect makes it more or less his instructions, and, if followed, sorta like his moc.

B.

If you were trying to make your moc feminine (Which I assume she was doing, what with the pigtail-y stuff and the breasts), then yes, you should try to apply your skills to plastic. That involves realizing that a four-stud-wide leg might be a little fat, and then settling for two-studs. That, or looking over your collection, realize that Rahkshi-heads, while a little hard to implement, would be more modest, and so on.

If I may interrupt this argument, has anyone heard from the creator of the MOC in question say whether she was going for it to be feminine or not? Or are you guys just assuming from the implications?

*Pops out*

I have always withheld the scientific standpoint of things: Bionicles (atleast MU charies) don't reproduce. Hence, biologically, it makes no sense from a scientific standpoint.

 

So far, no one's been able to prove me wrong.

Explain Roodaka then.

Owned

Until there's a quote from Greg or Lego that those were actually breasts, you'reYOUR argument is from a standpoint of ignorance; for all we know, it could of been extra armor that happened to be piled up in the upper chest.

Exactly. That could easily be what's going on with the MoCs.

And if you really wanna be pciky, how do you know they AREN'T? By your own logic, you're arguing from a point of ignorance as well, since lego has not confirmed that they weren't.

If I may interrupt this argument, has anyone heard from the creator of the MOC in question say whether she was going for it to be feminine or not? Or are you guys just assuming from the implications?

 

*Pops out*

Assumption based on logic. If they were meant to be chest laser things, then wouldn't she have said something along the lines of 'it isn't meant to be feminine?'

Weeping Xaengel: You have a point; however, while neither of the opposing sides can truly prove themselves, my theory actually has facts behind it. Can anyone prove that those are breasts? Any facts to back it up? Perhaps a few or so (not quite sure; I'll have to dig around in Storyline&Thoeries a bit), but I've got some sound facts of my own: Bionicles (MU charies at least) don't reproduce. They're made. So, as such, there proves no logical reason why any MU charie should have breasts.

Now, Bara Manga charies are free go, but MU charies? Eh-eh.

Milk/Mulk/Whateverman: Ah. I see.

Weeping Xaengel: You have a point; however, while neither of the opposing sides can truly prove themselves, my theory actually has facts behind it. Can anyone prove that those are breasts? Any facts to back it up? Perhaps a few or so (not quite sure; I'll have to dig around in Storyline&Thoeries a bit), but I've got some sound facts of my own: Bionicles (MU charies at least) don't reproduce. They're made. So, as such, there proves no logical reason why any MU charie should have breasts.

 

Now, Bara Manga charies are free go, but MU charies? Eh-eh.

Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Figured I might as well argue against you to present an opposing argument. And besides, why armor there if there was nothing to protect?

Oh, and also, the breast is technically defined as the upper ventral region of any animal. So Even if they aren't in one sense, they are in another.

1. But that's sort of the thing. DV didn't say 'lady looks like a dude' and ends that story. He said that, and then pointed out how it could be changed, via the pictures.

2. A.

-Point.

-Not necessarily. If you're a lady, then you don't look at yourself from the third person view. If anything, other people would have a better idea of what you look like.

-True, but I think that would settle for something along the lines of mollycoddling. It's like the difference between Middle school LA essays and those of high school. In MS, a common prompt would tell you to write an essay about a quote and then tell you how to do so, such as approaching it from characterization or whatever, while HS gives you a quote and leaves you to respond to it in whatever manner you deem best. Maybe DV didn't know how to help change the moc (since thunderthighs were pretty much integrated and all), so he had to settle for a picture. After all, telling people to use X piece for Y effect makes it more or less his instructions, and, if followed, sorta like his moc.

 

B.

 

If you were trying to make your moc feminine (Which I assume she was doing, what with the pigtail-y stuff and the breasts), then yes, you should try to apply your skills to plastic. That involves realizing that a four-stud-wide leg might be a little fat, and then settling for two-studs. That, or looking over your collection, realize that Rahkshi-heads, while a little hard to implement, would be more modest, and so on.

1. Fair enough. I recall seeing that on flatter MOC's though, albeit that may just have been my imagination since I recall it being late. And I still don't see how to apply freehand drawing to assembling three-dimensional pieces you can't really reshape.

2. A.

~Thank you.

~Mirrors.

~True, true. Although, again, I merely object to the idea that the image was, however intended, helpful, since there's a large difference between drawing what you see in your head and assembling something from premade pieces.

B. The latter is a legitimate point, but what I'm confused about is how exactly the drawings are supposed to be immensely helpful. A lot of people could just glance at their sister if they have one or just use Google to get an image of an actual woman to base the drawing off, usually to me improper proportioning is either a beginner's mistake, which I'm pretty sure it wasn't here, artistic liberty, which is more understandable but is still very much subject for criticism, or restriction of the format, which is the main reason I feel most female MOCs tend to be overly-busty.

Or, B in short since I feel like my meaning may have become a bit muddled in the second half, I feel it was in all likelihood either artistic liberty, which is understandable but very fair to criticize, or the limitations of the medium, the latter of which I feel is more likely, and on top of that, an image of a real person would've been more helpful.

As for the Rahkshi heads, that I'd put completely to artistic license, and while a legitimate point, while I hate when people use this kind of argument, it may be defended by claiming it's part of a style. That said though, I do understand where you're coming from with that, and I do have to agree. I actually have a design stuck in my head to make the Rahkshi head actually work fairly well now.

Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Figured I might as well argue against you to present an opposing argument. And besides, why armor there if there was nothing to protect?

 

Oh, and also, the breast is technically defined as the upper ventral region of any animal. So Even if they aren't in one sense, they are in another.

I understand; however, you should expect a pretty fierce fight out of me.

There could be many reasons for it; It could be there to protect the lungs and heart, which are located in the same area. Maybe it's a sign of rankage and prestiage (a stretch, yes, but it still could). Or maybe the Great Beings had left over scraps when they formed Roodaka's race (forgot the technical name) and slapped them on. Unless we get a confirmation from Greg, we can't really say.

I assume that people will have enough common sense to figure out that we're talking about organs that mammals possess to produce milk to help offspring survive long enough to grow to the point where they don't need help.

Which brings me to another point; Bionicles aren't mammals, so they technically don't even need to possess breasts. And yet everyone acts like they do.

Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Figured I might as well argue against you to present an opposing argument. And besides, why armor there if there was nothing to protect?

 

Oh, and also, the breast is technically defined as the upper ventral region of any animal. So Even if they aren't in one sense, they are in another.

I understand; however, you should expect a pretty fierce fight out of me.

 

There could be many reasons for it; It could be there to protect the lungs and heart, which are located in the same area. Maybe it's a sign of rankage and prestiage (a stretch, yes, but it still could). Or maybe the Great Beings had left over scraps when they formed Roodaka's race (forgot the technical name) and slapped them on. Unless we get a confirmation from Greg, we can't really say.

 

I assume that people will have enough common sense to figure out that we're talking about organs that mammals possess to produce milk to help offspring survive long enough to grow to the point where they don't need help.

 

Which brings me to another point; Bionicles aren't mammals, so they technically don't even need to possess breasts. And yet everyone acts like they do.

Yeah, but Bionicle have heartlights, not hearts. And looking at Roodaka, The standard place for the heartlight (base of neck, middle of chest) is unarmored. I know. I've got the set right next to me. See, we don't know that much about Vortixx ranking or whatnot, so that theory's bust. And if the GBs had scraps left over, which I'm not sure why they would, why would they use them in this manner?

Again, It can also mean the upper Ventral region.

So? Chickens aren't mammals, either. And note how I said ANY animal.