Alyska

Testing... The name of Scooby Doo's nephew is S###### Doo?

Edit: Okay, so that one's still out.

I think Lewa has definitely swapped his I for an E by the time they're in Karda Nui- he's much more sociable and loves joking with Pohatu and winding up Kopaka. Actually, changes in personality over time might be something worth looking into here. Great analysis.

The only reason NOT to do Dragonite is difficulty coming up with a name for the Mega Stone.

(Granted, that's only a problem in English, so it wouldn't really affect the developers at all)

Well, I would say that the only way we really need to define gender is whether they consider themselves male, female, or something else, combined with the pronouns that the narration and other characters use to describe them.

The gentleness thing, when we go right back, (not looking at the in-universe explanation for now) really just comes from Lego wanting to give each element an anthropomorphosised personality. Fire= headstrong and brave, Air= Carefree and quick-witted, Water= Calm and gentle. It was only their decision to make the elements gender-exclusive, and Water (at the time) the only female element, that led to female characters having a restricted range of personalities. 

I'd also like to note that Bionicle's representation of female characters kind of has two sides to it. On the one hand, there's the mainstream marketing of the characters- the ones who get sets, appear in comics, are seen on posters, and occasionally make it into a direct-to-DVD movie. This is the experience most kids will have with Bionicle- the females are typically in a supporting role for the male heroes, and tend towards the standard Water-type personality.

​Then we have the written material- online and in books, largely supplied by Greg, where there is actually a lot more presence and diversity of female characters. While still not "balanced" exactly, this content is several steps up on the media Lego focuses most on for its marketing purposes. Greg almost certainly knew that Helryx, Tuyet, Lariska, etc would never become sets when he created them- selling toys was not important there- telling a good story about interesting characters was. It's just a shame that Lego's reluctance to prominently include female characters  in the story (particularly female villains and antiheroes)  has left these characters being restricted to side-stories where a majority of Bionicle's target audience will never encounter them.

I wonder if there will be more Megas yet to be revealed? I'm really hoping for Flygon and Milotic, personally.

Yeah, there's a scene in the Inika storyline where Hahli meets Dalu. Hahli expresses surprise at the sight of a fierce warrior Ga-Matoran. Dalu responds that Hahli obviously expects all Ga-Matoran to be gentle peacemakers (which heavily suggests that all the ones on Mata Nui were.) Then Dalu clarifies that she and the other Voya Nui Ga-Matoran used to be that way as well.

Dalu and Hahli are great characters, but this exchange suggests that they and most other Ga-characters have "sweet and gentle" as their default personality, which is only changed by their experiences. Even Helryx- in her early life she invented the Toa Code to stop the Toa from killing their enemies, but in later life she has grown cynical and pragmatic enough to remove herself from it.

I'm kind of on the fence about this sort of thing- yes, showing that a character's personality has changed over time is important for characterisation, but did all the females really need to begin with the same default settings? It kind of implies that the Great Beings were right all along.

I think Orde's explanation of the GB's behaviour fits perfectly with what we know of them so far, and it explains a lot of the issues with the gender ratios in the Matoran Universe. It's also kind of a metaphor for how LEGO made certain decisions in Bionicle's development- apparently including females at all was a last-minute decision, and it was decided that the water folk would be female due to the connotations of water being gentle and peaceful.

That said... I voted "yes". I don't like the fact that we were promised a team with Toa of Psionics, Lightning, and Iron- that was two female elements and one male! Revolutionary by LEGO's standards! And then we end up with two guys and one woman. I don't know if Orde's gender was an accident on Greg's part that he didn't want to fess up to, or a deliberate break of the rules just so there didn't have to be two women on the team (I'd had an extensive discussion with Greg just a few months before as to whether, say, a female Ta-Matoran could exist. Greg said that the GBs could have made one if they had wanted to, but he didn't like the idea of making the possibility of female Ta-Matoran currently existing in the main universe canon because it would "open the floodgates" for fans to start demanding whole villages of female Ta-Matoran... so, you can kind of see why I'd be a little miffed that he proceeded to go and do the exact opposite ).

If Orde's gender was a mistake, I would have liked the chapter to have been edited as soon as Greg realised it. If it wasn't a mistake... well, I'm not going to comment on that possibility. It just strikes me as something incredibly messy that I'd prefer had not happened. I know that there's no possibility of retconning that much content, but, needless to say, I'm hopeful for a reboot that doesn't have this much of a problem with gender.

I wonder what Air is capable of uninhibited by the Toa code? Greg implied that a Toa of Air could have used air pressure to blow up Tren Krom- could that be done to anyone- or just organic beings?

Also, worth noting that out of those who have removed themselves from the Toa code, we have two Toa of Water, two (one now deceased) of Air, one of Iron and maybe one of Lightning. That's at least three of the most deadly elements when uninhibited right there. Lesovikk, Helryx, and Zaria are generally good guys, but the implications of Tuyet being let loose on a planet full of organic beings is terrifying.

Even if Iron or Magnetism can leave an opponent physically unable to move, there's a good chance that the opponent will have mask or elemental powers of their own that don't require the user to be physically mobile to activate. Those that inhibit the foe's mental capabilities are probably most effective (freezing, psionics, etc,)

So, I had this drama course on the weekend. It was taught by this nice but slightly eccentric British bloke. On the second day of the course, he randomly rocked up dressed as a pirate. Anyway, he managed to slip a Doctor Who quote into the lecture, and then immediately pulled out a silver pocket watch to check the time. I, of course, immediately blurted out "Is your Timelord identity sealed in there?!" Everyone stared at me blankly. The guy opens his pocket watch. It's a really fancy thing with a big section that pops up out of the middle and some sort of compassy-looking thing in there along with the actual watch.

I think my actual response was something along the lines of "whoooa... you could fit, like, three Time Lords in there", but I'm absolutely kicking myself for not making a "bigger on the inside" joke.

Does anyone else remember this? 

 

http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/9242-a-short-announcement/?do=findComment&comment=526454

 

Everyone said it was a prank, but now I'm really wondering if this was true all along.

Did Greg ever say anything about this post on any other sites? Was this him, or a troll? 

 The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I think that generally speaking, there should be a few differences between the various incarnations of the characters when it's a separate continuity. After all, they'll be living out a somewhat different story, having very different experiences, and they will grow and develop in different ways to the originals. A gender change here and there wouldn't affect all that much (I'd love to see a team with a male Gali analogue and female Kopaka and Pohatu... not that that's ever gonna happen.)

Water can be considered OP against non-protodermis lifeforms (assuming they're carbon-based, like we are, and have a high water content). A Water Toa following the Code could fling you around like a ragdoll- a Toa who didn't could shrivel you down to a pile of dust.

Voted reboot. Really hoping that they reconsider some aspects of the worldbuilding, particularly with regard to gender ratios.

Well, no, nobody becomes sexist because of one particular story, film, etc, that they happen to enjoy. It's more the fact that it's part of a larger pattern of gender imbalance, and it's everywhere- to the point where most people, yourself included, may begin to consider it the norm. 

These attitudes really do hurt people, particularly in the entertainment industry- there have been several cases of TV networks and film studios getting concerned because more women than men were watching their media. It didn't even occur to them that more women= more people=more viewers= more $$$, because the idea of there being more females than males in something was considered unnatural and unwanted.

Although, I have to say, it's not as "everywhere" as it used to be. We're now living in a world that is beginning to acknowledge the female characters and audience more and more- particularly in the fields of fantasy, science fiction and franchises aimed at kids. Hollywood producers are beginning to recognise that blockbusters starring women can be extremely popular (Twilight, Hunger Games, etc), and that TV shows with predominantly female casts can attract large audiences of both genders (For example, MLP and Orphan Black- two shows rarely mentioned in the same breath, but now that I think about it, totally need a crossover. Korra is another good one, and is aimed at a similar demographic to Bionicle.). The world is changing for the better, and I fear that if Bionicle is re-launched with all the problems of the previous version, it's going to look like an outdated relic from a time long gone.

Can I just say that there have been so wonderfully written arguments and rebuttals in this topic that it leaves me slightly disheartened knowing that nobody's opinion has ever been changed by an internet debate.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love reading these thoughtful posts, but sometimes it may be more enjoyable to focus the discussion towards those who are of a more like mind, to discuss past errors, future possibilities and what advantages and disadvantages this may hold for LEGO with people who are genuinely engaged in the topic. I've gotten myself bogged in the past trying to persuade a few specific people when I might as well have been talking to a rock. 

And let's face it, there are many people that just don't care about gender representation, and never will. Fair enough. We can't all know and care about every single issue plaguing the world- we'd burn ourselves out if we all cared that much. Those people who are not fussed about this will hopefully have their own things that they believe in. That's okay, too, as long as people don't go assuming that because something isn't important to them, it shouldn't be important to anyone else. One of the rudest ways to insult someone is to say that the things that they stand for don't matter.

That said, I'd like to raise a point that Greg used to always throw back at me whenever I brought this stuff up: The idea that young boys would not like a series (or more importantly, would not buy the toys from a series) that had a large number of female characters, and that trying to market something like Bionicle to both genders would fail. How much truth is in that, do you think?

I guess it carries the implication that marriage among Spherus Magna folk was as often about politics, resources and convenience more than it was about love, hence why the term is used that way. It's certainly not unprecedented if you look at most cultures throughout Earth's history.

How about Gali with Takanuva? What about a one-sided crush on Takanuva's part? They've always had a special bond, and Gali understood Takua better than any Matoran ever did. (I have a personal headcanon that after Gali left Karda Nui in the past, Takua was devastated and decided to honour her by changing his armour colour to blue. This of course is problematic for a male Av-Matoran as he risks revealing not only himself but all his friends to those who would want to harm Av-Matoran. This is why the OOMN singled out him in particular, forced him to change his armour colour and then brainwashed him and left him in Metru Nui- they decided that both he and all the other Av-Matoran would be safer that way. His blue mask was a remnant of that time.)

As for Kopaka... I can kind of see the point of those who like him with Pohatu (It has the same sort of appeal as Holmes/Watson, I suppose), but I have difficulty imagining him with Gali, to be honest. Gali certainly has the intellectual connection with Kopaka, but not the emotional one.

I suppose, returning to the topic at hand, the possibility of a reboot means that romance could become canon in the new continuity. So I guess the question is, how could Matoran express romantic affection? Would dating be a thing? Do the masks make kissing impractical? Would it be usual for Matoran to move to another village to live with their significant other? One defence I remember Greg using is that the characters will only ever be able to hold hands, and that there can be no progression from there . An exaggeration, perhaps, (Do the character development and changes in their interactions not count as progression?) but it is certainly worth considering...

 

Actually, I feel like Hahli and Jaller kind of separated by the time '06 rolled around. They've been nothing but professional around each other since Power Play. Sad story, I know, but not every relationship works out.

 

Hewkii and Macku, on the other hand, obviously still have a thing going, even though we haven't seen them in the same place since 2003.

Actually, I'm kinda questioning the thing between Hahli and Jaller too, because remember how all the toa Nuva call each other 'brother' and 'sister'? Well...

But my excuse for this is that that is simply something exclusive to the Nuva, since they were physically created together and bonded before they were even made.

The Inika were all friends with each other before and after the transformation, and that's how they saw each other. But so far as I can tell they never called each other brother and sister. (I never got to read all the Bionicle novels, so I don't know)

 

But on the topic of Hewkii x Macku, it's been getting very hard to ship them, with Hewkii's transformation into a toa. And in the alternate universe where Mata-Nui is a giant mega-city, Macku talks of Hewkii's death like it was of no matter to her. I was hoping for a quick add on to that moment like "she said with great sadness in her voice", just to keep it vague to those who still want to believe in their relationship.

 

 

EDIT: Does anyone else ship Lesovikk and Nikila? They were described heavily as "best friends" and she's the only one from Lesovikk's old team that he actually bothers to describe, showing that she meant a lot to him. It's like a sad love story, and it gets even better with the introduction of the Red Star and the possibility of her still being alive!

 

I can't remember many examples from the Mahri, but Hahli calls Matoro "brother" at least once (which is a huge shame, because I would probably ship them were it not for that- I liked her with Jaller as a Matoran, but I dislike the direction his character took as a Toa- Matoro had a lot more in common with her).

And no, no you are not the only one who likes Nikila and Lesovikk! I was really looking forward to the progression of the Red Star arc, because Lesovikk's inclusion in that serial suggested that we'd see her again. Heck, even as just friends, the little snippet we saw of them showed that they had a great dynamic. I really wanted to see their reunion because he'd have become bitter and cynical and wouldn't believe it was really her, and she would be kinda shell-shocked and weary from spending thousands of years up there, and then after days of trying desperately to convince him, she'd finally succeed and they'd hug and they'd go on adventures together, and even though they'd both changed so much they'd start the process of making each other's lives better and healing those old wounds and arrrrrrgh somebody write this fanfic.

*Ahem*

I like the way Greg writes Hewkii as a Toa- I think that even a platonic team-up between him and Macku would be wonderful. I mean, Macku's pretty fearless, pragmatic and serious as far as Ga-Matoran go, whereas Hewkii's a massive goofball most of the time- it would make for a great interaction- especially when the two are put in a life-threatening situation together. My main objection to their relationship being called a "strong friendship" is that we haven't really been able to see them interacting as friends.

@Bones- Hewkii and Macku's interest in each other featured most prominently in MNOG and the online animations, but it was also heavily supported by the official character bios as well. Same goes for Hahli and Jaller, whose romance even made it into MoL. I think saying it was never canon is a tad unfair, since the early story team, assuming they're the ones who wrote the bios, seem to have been all for it. 

Gali did have her moments where she was forced to act alone and take actions that put her friends in danger (The time she had to do a nova blast was a good example), but I do agree that she, Onua and Pohatu did not get as much of an individual story and development as the others.

Come to think of it, Pohatu's another character who has varied a lot across media. In MoL he has a gentle, reassuring voice, appreciates art, and does his best to keep the team together, while under Greg's control he loves smashing stuff and teasing Kopaka, and is described as having a "gruff" voice. I'd love to see the two interpretations integrated more closely -it adds more complexity to him.

 

But your point carries across well. It'd be nice to see a new writer who took this to a different level - the only problem is that I love Greg's work, and to see someone else write stories may not sit well with me.

 

I'd actually like to see multiple writers work on it- it takes the pressure off Greg to some extent, and allows many different types of stories to be told. Greg himself has already started bringing in different genres (black comedy, Western, cosmic horror, etc), and I think having more writers would help make the canon and world even more diverse.

Re: Romance- Both arguments make sense- yes, the characters don't need romance, but if their brains are modelled on Glatorian and Agori, it could easily be explained- *if* a writer wanted to include it. Macku's and Hewkii's affection for each other was also discussed in many other online materials, including official character bios- as were Hahli and Jaller's, which even made it into MoL.

The question is, if they did have that capacity, how would they express it socially? Would dating be a "thing"? Would they understand the concept of romance and the feelings they experienced? The stuff we saw of Hewkii and Macku was early-relationship cuteness, so where would it go from there had they been able to continue? In practice, I think any romance would really be little different to a close friendship, perhaps with a more flirty tone and more hand-holding - which could probably work, if a writer was committed and was able to do it without being mushy. Progressing from cute awkwardness through to a more married-couple-like dynamic could be fun.

The sad thing about Greg's writing, I think, is that he's reluctant to even show these relationships as close friendships. Macku and Hewkii have had little interaction or mention of each other (although apparently Hewkii's swimming lesson, at least, was canon), and the friendship between Hahli and Jaller is overlooked in favour of duos like Hewkii and Kongu. Furthermore, Jaller's character becomes distant and detached to the point where he's willing to kill all his teammates with a nova blast just to destroy his enemies (Which made no sense, by the way. He should have asked Hahli to do one instead. We know that it's entirely possible for a Toa to survive a water Nova at ground zero as long as they can breathe underwater, but it's safe to say that nobody but a Toa of Fire could survive a fire one. A water blast would also have carried further given that they were underwater at the time. The implication of this is that despite all the brave and heroic things Hahli had done in that arc, Jaller doubted that she'd be capable of something like that, and thought it better just to kill everyone himself. Really, Jaller?)

So, basically, if we get a writer who likes that kind of thing, I'm all for it, but it's clearly not Greg's forte, so I'd say he's certainly entitled to that interpretation- although, if the romances are going to be retconned into close friendships, it would be nice to see them portrayed as close friendships.

So, if Bionicle was to be rebooted- and I mean "rebooted" as in a new continuity, none of the events of the "old" canon having any impact, but perhaps with a few recycled character names, plot elements, etc...

Do you think the characters should be essentially reset to their old selves as we first met them on Mata Nui? Or would you want them to have the same names, but certain tweaks to their character- much like how Transformers and various superhero franchises will have the same names and similar appearance, but with notable differences that make each continuity's version almost a distinct character in their own right? (Compare Nolan!Batman to the Adam West series, for example- same name, similar costume, and same basic concept, but  very, very different from each other. Then there's more subtle examples, like if you look at different interpretations of Optimus Prime across different Transformers media.)

Alternatively, would you want new characters with different names, perhaps as expies or echoes of the old characters? (I can see them taking this route if they wanted to adjust the gender ratios, for example, or the number of Toa to a team).

It's also worth noting that there are different interpretations of characters even within the current canon- compare Mask of Light's gentle, soft-spoken Lewa with the energetic, snarky one that Greg Farshtey writes.

So, how should the characters be handled in a new continuity? What would you like to see? What tweaks are acceptable or preferable, and where do you draw the line?

A while back, there was an announcement about a Hero Factory film in the works- if that's the case, Bionicle replacing HF would be a silly idea. Although, I suppose, HF could be a working title (designed to mislead), with the actual project being a Bionicle film to reboot the franchise... feature films seem to be the way to go these days...