RahiSpeak

For some reason, I cannot quote bonesiii's post so I will just say that this post is in response to post #27.

I suppose that whether or not Voya Nui possessed the volume necessary to form Mahri Nui and the Cord is pretty dependent on how much of Mahri Nui was created by Mount Valmai. Mahri Nui existed in the space between the two ends of the crescent-shaped Voya Nui and appears that it is at least one-third the size of it (probably more). There is no way that this could possibly happen when one must consider the size of the Cord that must accompany it. So Mahri Nui, under such circumstances, might have had only had a small part formed by lava and simply taken much of the surrounding land with it. Providing that it was possible that Mahri Nui was solely the result of volcanic eruptions, Voya Nui would probably have such a shaky structure from the immense resource drain that it would crumble at the first earthquake. Again, maybe Voya Nui would have the volume to form part of Mahri Nui and that would have the density to pull much else with it, but otherwise I am very skeptical. Anyway, the idea of condensing pumice is cool.

What I meant by Voya Nui being very thick can be summed up with: thicker island>more volume>more material>new island. I mentioned Karda Nui because most theories require a blast of energy to propel the island upward. If the island were incredibly thick then it would also be incredibly heavy and incredibly well fused to the surrounding area. Any blast of energy sufficient to blow Voya Nui skyward would probably be enough to destroy the rest of the Mata Nui robot's upper body (or at least enough of it). I have posted an idea on the island's formation without said energy blasts, but no one has tried to critique it (probably because it is either confusing or very wrong).

Sorry for not posting anything for a while; busy, busy, busy! I have been checking in every day to see if there has been any new activity, but I did not want to post anything until I had something worth sharing. Now it seems that there has been more activity since my last post than, well, ever, so there is a lot of ground to cover.

IcarusBen, Akavakaku, and Tolkien, I have to say that I like the way that you all think! If we continue to think things through in a similar way, this project stands a good chance of success. Obviously, and as Tolkien pointed out, I was on a completely different page and was talking about the Okotoan script rather than the linguistics, which leads me to share the results of my endeavor to jumble up those repeating symbols. It seemed like a good idea at the time to use some math or logic to mix them up. Then when I began to think about the actual theory behind it, some things became apparent. To start, most of the ways that I could think of would require someone to read the script from the beginning to understand it. Others would begin to repeat sequence after a few iterations. After much thought, it became apparent that the laws of logic (and by association, the universe) declare that such a thing is both impractical and more importantly impossible. Good news is that while this sequence of symbols does repeat, we could simply stagger the length of words to make it more non-repeat in meaning. Why the villagers would do this could have any number of story reasons. I do not remember the number of symbols in the Temple of Time, but if there are six, then there could be some symbolic reference to the Toa. That's just speculation, it really could be for any reason but the point is one can give it a reason.

As far as starting a new topic goes, IcarusBen, this would be a really good idea, except that my idea for scrambling the sequence has pretty much died and therefore is wholly dependent on words and grammar, which would be the subject of any new topic created. So great idea, but no longer necessary.

And for those of you who don't have any experience in creating a language but want to help anyway, you're really like the rest of us (except maybe Tolkien). Just use similar trains of logical thought and representation that the above posts used if you can and remember that it does not have to be anything like English.

I'm sorry that I have not been more productive here, but this new direction should change that. However, it should be noted that I have a busy schedule the next five weeks.

Keep up the fantastic work everyone! Hopefully I will be able to bring some meat to the table soon!

Oh, I understand what you meant, bonesiii. My point was that Voya Nui does not have near the volume required to create both Mahri Nui and the Cord. Unless of course, Voya Nui were REALLY thick, which would in turn make for a very thick sphere around Karda Nui. It would be so thick that there would be no way some overloaded "gravity makers" (or any other source of energy) would have a chance at blowing it skyward. Another interesting point that was brought up is that a hollow Voya Nui would float. This is of course true, but now Voya Nui has to hold the material to form Mahri Nui and the Cord AND the island must be hollow. Obviously, that means Voya Nui must be MUCH thicker than its already "REALLY thick" size. So, things to think about. And also, I think I may have sounded a bit more... brash than I intended in my previous post. That wasn't intentional, I was just trying to be quick, kind of like now (using an old ipod; not fun on forums).

Alright, this is all very well and fine, but now there is something else that has to be answered. How was Mount Valmai still active? Moreover, how did it get enough material to form not only the Cord, but also Mahri Nui? I like bonesiii's idea of drawing heat from the outside thus forming the ice ring. The idea that the lava came out of nowhere, that I don't like. Any solutions to this improbability?

Xelphene, that is by far the best explanation I have ever heard. It is so perfect that I think it should be made canonical. Geez, makes my explanation sound long-winded and improbable doesn't it?

I really liked your story; very well written; excellent variation in sentence structure and vocabulary. To me, the interaction between the Barraki and Hydraxon was actually quite nice; the way you articulated it and added details to the exchange. Perhaps the Toa's feelings about participating in Hydraxon's challenge were a little awkward, but I think you did a good job of smoothing it over.

That was style. As for actual content, I liked your decicion to go over Hydraxon's trainor days rather than his time in the Pit. You also characterized Hydraxon well in that he is strong and tough, but with a gentler, even wiser side as a member of the Order should have.

All in all, this was, and is, a surprisingly good story. You have a vote.

Why yes, yes it does answer things for me. Thanks everyone!

Unfortunately, unless there is a news break worthy of the BZP front page, you have pretty much summed up the whole of public understanding. There really just isn't anything to say at this point. If I stumble upon something intruiging, well, I'll keep you posted, but that could be a while, probably not until LEGO or Brickopedia makes an update, which would sort of defeat the purpose. But here's hoping.

Perhaps I missed something obvious, or maybe this is general know-how, but how do I make a quote without quoting the entire post? What does "multiquote" do? How do I post a link?

Here's news for you everone: the new BIONICLE app is out and there is a plethora of new symbols to be had. They are easiest to see in the Gali levels and on the gates. As I am typing this, it occurs to me that I did not write them down, so I do not know how many there are or what they look like... yet. If I remember correctly, there are some symbols that are similar to the ones in the shorts. Still a repeating pattern, but what else is new? Anyway, haven't had a chance to crank out that "mathematical procedure" yet. Nonetheless, keep those ideas comin'!

Oops, I suppose I should be more careful about how I use the word "need". I don't think too much about it because that is just the way I talk, but I'll try to keep that in mind. I think the inclusion of the word "would" implies a hypothetical situation, but thanks anyway for pointing that out, bonesiii.

I concede that the Mask of Life would probably need to use certain energies to aid in the task of transformation, but those energies alone would not be enough to do the job. Yes, that is likely all that was needed in the Matoran Universe, providing that protodermis was able to respond to said energies. On Spherus Magna, however, there is no protodermis. This means that something must directly control the process rather than leaving it to the substance the object or being is made of. Hence, "viruses" (or perhaps that's not the right term) would need to be present as the hands and fingers of the mask. Sure, they would probably need some assistance, so the mask could continue to provide the energy to complete the operation, even fling the "micro-workers" (perhaps that's a better term) towards its target. But it would be nigh impossible to control these energies radiating from the mask in such a way as to constructively alter the target's structure without something to receive these energies and implement them. Thus is my opinion.

Aside from that, I would like to see someone tackle the subject of toa powers. Here is a complete list of, more specifically, toa elemental powers:

-Fire

-Earth

-Stone

-Air

-Water

-Ice

-Light

-Gravity

-Sonics

-Plasma

-Green (jungle/plants)

-Magnetism

-Lightning

-Iron

-Psionics (of mental nature)

Some of these may be easier than others, but the general qualifications for explaining each are as follows: 1) Energy-where does it come from, how is it conducted, how much is needed?, 2) Control-how are energies directed, how is matter manipulated?, 3) Limitations-why can't toa control elements of a similar nature?

I know this is sort of complicated question, but nobody had brought it up so I wanted to make sure it was out there.

And if I may pose one additional question, when I first joined BZPower (not too long ago, actually) I started a topic called "The Formation of Voya Nui". There were some good answers, but the concensus was that no one really knew. In my last post, I proposed an idea as to why Voya Nui went up instead of down. No one has responded to it and I think that it is right up the ally of this topic. So if you feel up to it, care to review my proposition? Any takers?

Kayori, this is a good idea and a very necessary one at that. Unfortunately, I think it is just a little early. I say this because it may be rather difficult to match up the words with the Okotan script. Nonetheless, the language does need a sort of phonetic style. In that respect, your endeavor could prove quite fruitful immediately, so I encourage you to go ahead, but it is too early to give meaning to specific words. I'm not sure how much of this topic you have read, however, it may give you a better understanding of the direction this "project" has been taking. But really, keep compiling your dictionary and taking votes on (currently meaningless) words. I would actually like to make some suggestions myself, but I don't have any ideas at the moment. If this post is somehow confusing to you, I'll be happy to clarify.

So as far as mutations caused by radiation go, this never results in new information, only the loss of it as nucleotide bases are blasted off of their respective DNA strands. If there is a gene to code, say, regenerative capabilities (okay, more than one gene) and it gets irradiated information will be lost. When something needs to regenerate, it will begin the process but will ultimately fail when the ever necessary conditions aren't met because it doesn't know what to do. Most creatures with drastic mutations don't actually survive long after being born, if they even made it to that point. Those that do survive die quickly in the wild, so it is nothing like the movies where radiation gives you super powers.

Now of course, the Mask of Life must get its abilities by a different means. From what I understand, almost everything, if not everything, is made of protodermis inside the Mata Nui robot. Being that the mask is not just any random mask, but a mask with a purpose to, again, according to my understanding, heal and maintain Mata Nui, it would make sense that it would have a sort of "higher power"; being able to communicate and control directly with the substance commonly known as protodermis (more on that later). This is necessary because more than once, the mask operated at a distance. I am aware that the Mask of Life was still functional on Bara Magna, but as far as I know, this never happened without the mask coming into contact with the "changee". Fortunately, TuragaOfVirtues has a brilliant solution to this: the use of viruses. The Mask of Life could be coated completely with some approximation of viruses, carriers of information. Viruses alone would not be enough, however, at least to cause mutations at that speed. They would need to either be equipped with building tools or accompanied by an entity that is. Giving a Glatorian toa powers may not yield any other significant difference, but tools or weapons could become heavier or lighter for their size depending on how the "viruses" used the material from the old tool or weapon.

Here is what I have to say on protodermis:

There are several ways to code information on an individual atom, of which I can't say I am familiar with most. Regardless, protodermis would have to be a fairly large molecule because of the many forms it takes. Changing the rotation of an electron would not effect the properties of of protodermis on a macroscopic scale. As a large molecule, the interaction of protodermis with certain impurities could alter the protodermis's shape at the microscopic scale, which can have a significant effect on the macroscopic scale. Large enough of a molecule, and it could have its own method of primitive locomotion, allowing a puddle of energized protodermis to take shape and protodermis in general to submit to the power of the mask.

I find this topic to be rather interesting so I will certainly be checking back. If you have some critisism for this post, I will be sure to reply to it, if I'm needed anyway. Keep up the good work, TuragaOfVirtues!

Well, I said that I would edit my previous post rather than create a new one, but it appears that this topic has gotten some new activity. Thus, new post.

I must say, Spicy Salmon Samurai, you certainly have a much better handle on the subject than I do. Those were some pretty interesting observations and I think they would make an Okotan language much more interesting as well.

Since I posted last I have rewatched those BIONICLE shorts and I have come to a troubling, yet somewhat obvious, realization. What I had expected to find on the walls of the Temple of Time and other such places is blocks of symbols each containg two vertical rows; mirrors of each other but with a random offset. Instead, these vertical rows were perfect mirrors of each other and simply flipped upside-down. Each block was of match to another. Now that alone does not cripple or undermine the developement of an Okotan language. If each symbol were assigned a number, a mathematical procedure might be able to turn the repeating pattern into something usable, which would be fun to try. Unfortunately, these blocks of symbols are the same EVERYWHERE on Okoto. Unless someone can think of a reliable way to give these symbols a contextual meaning, that just may put an end to this endeavor. But then again, why couldn't the inscriptions in the Temple of Time be the same as those on some desert ruin? They are all related, right? So anyway, things to think about.

Quick recap:

-Symbols are in the same pattern everywhere.

-Need a mathematical proceedure to jumble up the pattern.

-Must be either contextual or a repetition.

To SailorQuaoar:

I already mentioned earlier that we don't need to know anything about the story to begin forming the language structure; the way it is read. Can we give that any meaning at this time? No, but meaning can be completely arbitrary; dog could mean cat and 2+2 could equal five (the word or representation, not the value).

And to IcarusBen:

Perhaps "Okoto" is not the most interesting word in the world, but of course, "pan" or "sheet" are not too much fun to say are they? Not every word is going to be as exciting as "Voyahi Okonui", but some can be even more so. The thing is, we haven't really been given any words other than "Okoto" and "Toa"; that's a lot of wiggle-room!

NOTE: I do not know how to post links to websites. If I think it is important, I will make a reference.

Honestly, when I typed the previous post, I only knew what the Mayan numerals looked like. All else was a mystery. But, I did my homework, and I found that the simple, small, blocky symbols in the videos look nothing like the elaborate, large, curly symbols featured in Mayan texts. With that in mind, I decided to learn more about Mayan scripts anyway. I cannot say that I completely understand it myself, but there are actually some interesting concepts that should be considered.

For starters, the Mayan languge was written in the form of logograms and syllables.Logograms are just symbols representing words. Given the simplicity and number of these Gen2 symbols, this probably is not a reasonable or even viable option. However, the idea of using syllables rather than an alphabet, to me, is a rather intruiging idea. Individual syllables would start with a consonant and end with a vowel. Often times, when two or more of these syllables were put together to make a word, if they ended in the same vowel, then the vowel was dropped from the last of them. Example: "ba" + "ka" = "bak" or "vo" + "ba" + "ka" = "vobak". Of course, some names start with vowels, so we would have to take some liberties with that. Keep in mind, this post is just what I have read. Another interesting tid-bit is that there were many ways to write the same thing; almost always the difference was solely stylistic. This often occured by combining the logograms with their syllabilic counterparts, sometimes for clarification, but again, mostly for style. Since, as I said, logograms are probably not ideal, this is more just something to keep in mind, although I would be interested to see a creative alternative to them. Perhaps a readily applicable fact is that the Mayans would write in blocks representing phrases. If you were paying attention to the BIONICLE shorts and examining the pedestals on the packaging, you may have noticed that the symbols were sometimes engraved within rectangular boxes, some of which were vertical and others horizontal. I have not examined these closely yet, so I cannot make any further conjectures. This post was meant to share some of the things I had learned about Mayan script to serve as a starting point to get some creative (and somewhat educated) juices flowing. However, I probably forgot some things and I didn't make as much headway as I would have liked, so when I have more information I will edit this post rather than create a new one. Also, I should probably mention that I have not yet found a language that resembles the Okotan one (then again, what did the Matoran language look like?). Still, I will keep looking. It would be helpful, however, to look up really any language to get inspiration on language structure to share with everyone else, which may just consist of me. Regardless, there are a lot of languages and it is hard for me to do it all by myself. I recommend searching for more ancient languages as they can be strange compared to modern languages and seem to fit the theme quite nicely. This is a really good site:

www.ancientscripts.com

Again, I will update this post later with either more information or with some more ideas directly pertaining to an Okoto language.

Yes, indeed, they do look like Mayan symbols. For that reason I would like to do a little research on the Mayan language, specificaly, grammar. Currently, I am not too worried about phonetics as they can easily be added to the language's structure, whereas it is hard to add structure to sounds. As mentioned in the Okoto written language topic, there appear to be different symbols or strings of symbols on the golden-mask pedestals pictured on the new toa sets than those featured in the shorts. The most complete picture of these is on Tahu's packaging, although the picture on the BIONICLE website is not good enough to make them out. Also, until a comprehensive story is finally released, it will be impossible to actually give these symbols a meaning. After it is determined how these symbols should be read, words will be seperated from each other based upon agreed grammar. Meaning could be assigned to these new words only after more of the story is known. This should not be a problem, however, because syntax is the difficult part while the words themselves (other than for the all important stylistic purposes) can be quite arbitrary. I will be sure to give this subject some more thought. Hopefully, my next post will have some cronstructive ideas contained within it. Personally, I like puzzles, so I think a puzzle-like language would be interesting, but we shall see if such a thing is too complicated or if simple is simply better.

I voted for four.

One half of me wanted to vote for five because, being perhaps the last contest, I think there should be a good sized pool of winners. It is also just a good, round number. The other half was drawn towards three winners, which is just a common course of action. Four winners was my compromise, as fourth place does sometimes get recognized, but not usually fifth.

Just a day or two ago, a topic started by -Takua- on deciphering the Gen2 runes made the front page. Naturally, it got a lot of traffic and many replies. There was, and still is, a great amount of excitement over a new BIONICLE language. Unfortunately, among many of the objective posts (most posts were either off topic or approval of adding a new language), the general concensus is that these symbols do not, as of this time, have any meaning and are simply decoration. Given the LEGO Group's aptness to heavily incorporate the old Matoran Language into the first generation before it became expected to do so, if these symbols do not mean anything, it is unlikely that they ever will. However, at least from what I have heard, LEGO has been known to accept fan input for the BIONICLE story from time to time. What I suggest is the creation of a fan-developed language, one using few other symbols outside of the ones featured in the shorts and inscribed on the Mask of Creation. This is really a time to be creative, so don't feel confined to the English alphabet (or grammar, for that matter). Get creative enough, and we just might be able to give a meaning to that endlessly repeating string of non-repeating characters. Before attempting to start this puzzler, I recommend seeing -Takua-'s post as well as SkullKid's (towards the end) as they are the most informative (there are a lot of posts). Even if LEGO still never gives the runes a meaning, this could be a sort of ongoing project/puzzle to give meaning to the meaningless; a "fanonical" language if you will, which is better than none at all. Feel free to post your thoughts even if they only are half baked. A fragment of an idea just may prove inspirational to someone else.

NOTE: There still is a chance that these symbols do indeed currently have a meaning, it is just unlikely.

Other than the STARS, which were undisputabley the worst, my least favorite sets would have to be the Toa Inika, none in particular, but I think Nuparu was the best of the mix. I dislike the uselessness of both the masks and heads. They were also a little underwhelming, in stature and in design of new pieces. While the swords were interesting in the way they lit up, they didn't blend well with other BIONICLE pieces. The sets themselves were also disappointing in that, unlike previous years, the pieces were not condusive to building other models with.

Thank you all very much; you were quite helpful. By the way, bonesiii, it may not be that tricky to explain Voya Nui's volcano. If Mata Nui had landed somewhere that was at least partially volcanic, one could imagine multitudes of great lava plumes shooting up from the shattered rock. Odds are, one of them was bound to snag the island, thus forming the Cord. But anyway, thanks again to everyone for their speedy and helpful replies!

About an hour after posting the previous paragraph, I realized a perhaps semi-plausable way that Voya Nui could have formed simply through the Great Cataclysm without any external force. If the Mata Nui robot had crashed at an angle of somewhere around, maybe, 60-75 degrees, the region around his chest area would have come to a halt(perhaps some skidding) while the rest of his body would continue to move. This would cause his torso to bend violently in a way it probably wasn't supposed to. Voya Nui, if properly located, may have then slid over the Southern Continent, which would then push the island to point upward. The ceiling in that area would be ruptured as well as crunched inward, close enough so that the island could reach it and even slide through. If enough of the island was sticking out of Mata Nui's chest, then when he began to come to a rest, his body would be lying nearly flat and therefore the rupture would significantly increase in size, releasing the snuggly held Voya Nui (it would have still needed to force part of its way through). As the water began to rush in underneath, Voya Nui would be pushed upward and only have to float upward a short distance. In fact, Voya Nui may have been able to remain surfaced the whole time while Mahri Nui became submerged and broke off because it was still partly stuck in the Mata Nui robot.

Well, those are my thoughts. Should any credence be given to them, do you think?

I decided to try counting all of the symbols in an effort to see if they had any meaning. Unfortunately, they all occur with roughly the same frequency. Real languages don't do that. Unless of course, these symbols are like Chinese calligraphy, where each character represents a word, but that seems unlikely. Or, perhaps there are many other symbols within the language and we only have seen this one word repeated over and over again, but this seems pointless. In all likelyhood, LEGO probably never intended these symbols to have any meaning. I say this because it does not appear that Generation 2 has nearly the depth of story as Generation 1. They know their target market and they probably figure that that market isn't particular about such things.

2006-Battle of Voya Nui

I voted for 2006 because, for one, that was supposed to be the next movie just after Web of Shadows. Also, the story, while interesting, was really the foundation for every year after. That being said, it could probably be presented as, per se, a major motion-picture more easily than most other years as it needs less background information to make sense. And, of course, it was also just an awesome story.

From what I have read, or at least understand, the island of Voya Nui was created during the Great Cataclysm, breaking off from the Southern Continent. What has confused me, however, is exactly how this happened and its effect on the Matoran Universe. Consider these points:

-The island, of course, "rocketed upward", punching a hole in the Mata Nui robot. But what caused Voya Nui to fly upward? Shouldn't it have instead collapsed onto Karda Nui? After all, Mata Nui crashed downward, hence Voya Nui would continue the course unless something else pushed it up.

-During the island's ascent, it would first have to crash through Mata Nui's armor, then float to the surface of the water. How would any matoran survive such a series of unfortunate events: squashed then flooded out? Moreover, how was the island not simply smashed to pieces?

-After the island's formation, the hole it created formed a great waterfall. Do the matoran of the Southern Continent greet each day by staring at this giant wall of water? What exactly do they make of it? And given the large size of Voya Nui compared to the Mata Nui robot, how is it that all of Karda Nui wasn't flooded within days?

To be honest, I am a returning bionicle fan, so while I have done a fair amount of research on biosector01, I have almost completely forgotten the books. My questions may be in error. If so, please correct them. Thank you!