Mukaukau Nuva

5 hours ago, Valendale said:

there are for sure a lot of younger fans who have gotten into the franchise via G2

I think people underestimate this point. Sure, maybe G2 won't be looked back on as fondly as G1, but there are people who would never have became "nostalgic" for G1 were it not for G2 (simply b/c they were too young at the time). 

I mean, there are a lot of us on BZP that can vouch for this. I didn't get into Bionicle proper until about 2007? I had toys since 2002 but I wasn't hardcore about buying them or following the story. Once I learned about the story (through the movies, encyclopedia, etc.) 2004 came to be my favourite year. Yet, I never owned the toys from 2004; the ones I do have I got on eBay or in trades specifically because I was looking for those characters.

I can easily imagine a child who bought G2 Bionicle looking into the history of the name and learning about G1 and becoming captured by it. G1's sets are pretty cheap on Bricklink and the like too, so experiencing those years for oneself anew isn't that hard to do. 

22 hours ago, Brendenpostma said:

Bionicle fudges up the science a lot anyways

This is the real kicker. Literally nothing else in Bionicle has a marked scientific basis; it's science-fiction of course, but (1) physics-defying giant robots, (2) elemental powers, (3) rock being different from stone, and (4) quasi-magical mask powers are all concepts that have no scientific justification yet are accepted as part of this world's rules.

Romance not being accepted because of some (in my opinion, misunderstood) argument in favor of biological-determinism is just a rhetorical sleight of hand. Bionicle declines to feature romance not because science says so, but because Greg says so, and Greg knows that argument isn't going to be enough to convince some of us (least of all me).  

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There is probably an MS in Denmark or something. These books were quite short IIRC, and if an actual introduction was written there's a good chance that at least a rough draft was completed before the book was cancelled. How rough is up for debate; it could be the that the plot is finished but the prose isn't polished, or it could read well but the plot might have a few gaps.

Was there ever a reason given for withholding it? Sure, this series might not have made a lot of money... but presumably they've already paid Greg for the commission and would want to recoup at least some of that cost. Though even that's suspect, since we don't know how Greg was paid--did he have a salary as part of the story team (and any writing he produced was done on the clock) or was he paid a commission for each work he produced?

According to Christian Faber, it was planned since the beginning. Which makes sense, since the geography of the Matoran universe makes very little sense unless this is the case; of course, most of us didn't notice it b/c we were children at the time and didn't think about it.

I could see LEGO replacing CCBS, especially if they think it will freshen up constraction for new buyers, and especially if we go 5-10 years before they decide to revive constraction in force. At that point, the molds for the CCBS pieces would be very old and/or worn out; they'd need to be updated, but replacing them would cost about the same amount of money, so they could do that.

To be honest, I would be more hype for a new LEGO-original constraction thing than Bionicle's return; I'm of the opinion that constraction is Bionicle's legacy, and it's a shame that the format isn't being used right now for an original property.

8 hours ago, Lenny7092 said:

I don’t get why Chris would put “BION” on his posts

I don't think it's a coincidence, but it could be a marketing tactic; suck in the Bionicle diehards with a promise of that brand's renewal, then reveal it to be a new project. While some people might be angry and storm off, others will have been captured by it regardless.

In any case, Faber's preliminary work on the project would have reached more people under the pretext of "Not!Bionicle" than it would otherwise.

"What We Do" - Devo

1 hour ago, Valendale said:

That was actually another thing I didn't like about the film. As I said earlier, I didn't get into Bionicle until later, so I didn't see LoMN until far after the fact, so I already had a good idea of the over all story. I remember thinking something along the lines of "wait, where's the part where they go back for the rest of the matoran and find Metru Nui infested with spiders"

Well, you only have to imagine that if they had included it, the complaints instead would have been "why did they bother to stop the film for 15 minutes to show this journey?"

This is kind of a meta question, but how many LEGO-original properties actually get a resolved ending? I haven't been keeping up with recent themes, but it generally seems kinda rare, especially since G1 only got an ending due to the creative team having the clout to ask for one.

I actually got around to re-watching this for the anniversary. 

Strangely, the first 30 minutes were actually better than I expected, at least as a serviceable family adventure film. Even after the Tarix/Vastus arena fight, I think the movie at least has a driving force. But that end tho... 

Everyone complains about that Tuma fight, but I think the problems actually really start to show after that. The fight with the army of Skrall isn't really fun, lacks tension, lasts too long, and doesn't know what it wants to do with itself; there's a 2 minute scene with Berix on a horse in the middle of battle that ruins whatever flow it could have had. And then the film just... ends.

I know the TTV people disparaged of the hack-and-slash fight choreography, but I thought it was rather charming; it reminds me of how kids actually played with their toys. 

Legends of Metru Nui is the only Bionicle film that keeps pulling me back. Mask of Light? I haven't seen that film in at least 10 years. Web of Shadows? I only really watch it because it's the direct sequel to LoMN. And The Legend Reborn isn't strong enough as a complete story to pull me in.

That's what LoMN gets right, I think. You can appreciate it within the bounds of the whole Bionicle story, of course (Hahli at end, Kongu in the middle, the twin 'suns' in Mata Nui's head), but it works just as well (if not better) as a standalone story.

In particular, I want to talk about the journey to Mata Nui. In 'canon,' this trip consists of a scouting mission on the Lhikan, a trip back to Metru Nui, and a final airship passage back to Mata Nui. LoMN wisely condenses this trip down to just one passage, knowing correctly that what really matters here isn't the minutia of continuity, but thematic coherence and plot structure. Bionicle, as something to be uncovered, isn't a story; it is mythology crafted for children. The myths of our own world are full of contradiction and simplification, and yet this does not lessen their impact. LoMN, I think, is smart enough to know this.

I probably have a lot more to say but I'll leave it right here for now.

Invasion From Below is a really cool concept, TBH. The idea of constraction playing with scale like that wasn't something (IIRC) that Bionicle ever did (aside from the playsets, which rarely used constraction aside from side-models).

Or maybe I'm just too big of a Pacific Rim fan. I can only say so much. I never owned a 2014 HF set. 

Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra, if only so I can have an Avatar!Toa that can manipulate all 6 elements.

23 minutes ago, TuragaNuva said:

[W]hy she is able to do this, or whether any of the other Toa Mata/Nuva can, is unclear.

I assume there's a degree of narrative convenience at play, but if I might be able to posit an actual answer to this question. The inhabitants of the Matoran Universe are, to a degree, bio-mechanical; the "bio" part of that designation implies some organic matter in their composition. If the organic parts of a Matoran's body are anything like life on Earth (and they may not be), water (or liquid protodermis) may be contained in their organic muscle mass (or for what passes as their 'blood').

Since Gali is a Toa of Water, she may be able to manipulate the water inside Takua's body and brain (whether she knows consciously that's what she's doing or not) thereby linking the two of them together. It requires a number of assumptions, and I can't say for sure why Gali felt she couldn't do this sort of thing again (even though she was now much more powerful); if I had to chance it, Greg probably remembered the Templar game, thought he should address it, but didn't have an explanation at hand.

This series (building off of Maku's work, of course) sounds like the perfect start to a book! The Secret History of Bionicle, perhaps? The Star Wars fandom created The Secret History of Star Wars, of course (written by Michael Kaminski).

This is great work regardless. Given that Bionicle spanned 9 years and was overseen by multiple story heads, it makes sense that there were many abandoned story threads and schisms between story heads about what the story should be about. Fascinating...

I'm somewhat at a loss for a succinct pitch, honestly.  G1's 'island with a secret' (and that secret being so elegantly simple; that the island Mata Nui and the god Mata Nui are connected by a giant robot) is its most compelling feature and the one that keeps bringing my mind back to Bionicle.

Essentially, to re-do Bionicle is to re-do that twist by finding an equally compelling secret. You can't choose the same one since new viewers could just look up G1 and guess correctly. Bionicle's bedrock rests on this high-concept twist--replacing it with another threatens to change it into a completely different property (and thus out of the scope of this discussion). 

Assuming we keep constant the idea of 6 Toa, an island, Mata Nui, and Makuta, the best I can come up with is six different island chunks (each corresponding to an element) that form an archipelago; none of the islanders have ever come into contact with each other, but when Makuta attacks (in some vague undefined way that'll sell sets) 6 Toa arrive, 1 to protect each island. Despite the claims that none of the islands have been in contact with the others, it becomes clear as the story progresses that all 6 share common architecture and legends (for instance, all 6 villagers worship a being called "Mata Nui"), leading the Toa to assume that the six islands broke off from one island...

...With the revelation that, in actuality, the sea level used to be lower in the past, and the islanders used to live in the basin between the 'islands;' when the flooding occurred, the tribes each migrated to the highest place they could find to survive. When the flooding stopped, the 6 islands as we see them were all that remained. The final act would take place on the sea floor as the Toa search the ruins of the lost civilization for something to potentially defeat Makuta once and for all.

Perhaps Mata Nui (in a form like that of his Bara Magna form) could be hidden asleep on the bottom of the sea floor; it turns out he was the leader of the villagers and Makuta was his brother, but in his jealously Makuta caused the flooding and destroyed the basin civilization. Mata Nui claims he can reverse the flooding... but it would be pointless to do so before Makuta is defeated.

Final battle with Makuta, Mata Nui lowers the oceans, yada yada yada, and the Toa return to eternal sleep, knowing their duty was fulfilled.

Not exactly as sci-fi as G1, but it could do in a pinch. 

15 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

I think it was more than just Greg, probably the whole story team decided there wasn't any romance, and their word is final.

I don't think Greg ever featured romance in any of his work.

The point being that non-canon =/= doesn't matter.

What matters is that it was released, watched, and people responded to it. The reactions, the impact it caused determines the work's importance, not the company who owns the work saying it "happened" or "didn't happen;" hence why the Star Wars Holiday Special and Star Wars: Clone Wars (the microseries) are still important even long after Lucas (and later Disney) declared them non-canon. They still impact how the audience perceives Star Wars, and they inform how new Star Wars media is written.

24 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

This and all other romance was later decanonised.

Canon matters not. At the end of the day, the Bionicle story is all self-contradictory fictional media; what Greg says didn't happen in his version of the story says more about Greg than it does about the story, especially since he wasn't the only creator.

I care more about the text than what the (not-even) author says about it. 

32 minutes ago, Sir Kohran said:

Did Matau ever show much emotion?

Toa Metru Matau hits on Nokama in almost every piece of media he appears (even the ones Greg wrote).

I agree with the premise that Bionicle characters have a generally wider emotional range than they are generally given credit for; albeit I tend to dismiss Greg's novels and serials in favour of the films, the comics, and the web animations. Not that I disparage print media, I simply don't care much for Greg's style or how he handles the material. Faber's 'grand design' had a much greater impact on me than Farshtey's meandering quest narratives.

Even if we're just talking about Greg though, Vezon has a distinct personality (even if it's a personality that occasionally gets on my nerves); it's not hard to see him going all out for a villain song. He's crazy enough to do it, too.

" O Fortuna" -- Carl Orff

17 hours ago, Toa Komali said:

To be fair not as fast as this, this kind of movement would need more than Ice shifts that is also continental shifts here. I just find it more coincidental is all, especially since some parts of Lego Geography have looked much closer to real world stuff 

I've figured it out. It's Antarctica without the Ice Shelves. You can see the general shape of it here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Antarctica_Station_Map.png

13 hours ago, Toa Komali said:

Nope, I checked it the bit at the top of Antarctica is far more straight and is not a series of small Island like Archipelagos, this has a vauge outline similar to but not anywhere exact to be a Earth landmass. Funny enough the curly bit at the top reminds me of the cowlick on the obscure video game character Plok, to me though it looks like part of the southern island chains in Mata Nui.

To be fair, Antarctica is changing shape rather rapidly...

14 hours ago, Master Inika said:

I've wondered this for years and never found someone who could tell me: why is the prototype Suletu clearly a Kraahkan with a Hydro Blade bent over the top of it?

Because the LEGO designers aren't allowed to use any new molds for prototypes; they either have to sculpt their own out of clay or kit-bash them out of existing parts/materials. Clearly the designer of Inika Kongu (if that was even the working name for that set; I don't know either way) thought that the final mask would look something like a Kraahkan with a Hydro Blade attached.

Considering Greg only based his work on finalized sets and prototypes very close to completion, this mask probably wasn't designed to be a Suletu at the time (which was a pre-existing mask power at the time). It might not have even been designed for Inika Kongu or the green set of 2006's summer wave, since we know colours and characters are swapped with some regularity; apparently Mistika Tahu was original blue, indicating that set was not originally intended for Tahu, nor that mask for a Hau.