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8th Most Beautiful Female Character


Jean Valjean

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8 - Selina Kyle

 

selina_kyle.png

:kaukau: What I like about Selina is that she's grounded. You'd think that since she wears a catsuit when ready for action that she'd be an action girl, and while she can often get her way out of tricky situations, she's not ridiculously good at fighting. Her skill set is dedicated more to the subtle art of cat burglary, which she pursues due to her own complicated Robin Hood reasons. Yet, in spite of her talent, she's not completely off the records. She needs a clean slate and has to risk quite a bit to get it, and unsuccessfully. It turns out that she can be caught by the police, and on top of that she knows when to be afraid, because Bane and his cronies are completely out of her league.

 

Contrast this to the typical action girl. Lately there was also someone named Natasha Romanov, also known as the Black Widow. She also wore a catsuit, although for some reason she unzipped it to display gratuitous cleavage. What gets at me with this character is that, as the action girl, she always has the upper hand, because no matter what she's skilled enough to fight herself out of even the most ridiculous situations, because at the end of the day she's the action girl and everyone else is just a thug. It's a very simple and blunt narrative, and I don't necessarily think that it's empowering to women. She's essentially a man's creation in a woman's suite, and there's no doubt that she was merely the product of the male imagination because I know male fantasies when I see them.

 

So Selina isn't really the action girl. I see her more as a skilled, elegant woman, with neither her talents nor her femininity turned into caricatures. The true virtues of being a woman, whatever they are, I am sure are far more complex than what most male authors can imagine. And it's true, because underneath I have the sense that she's far more intricate than Black Widow, who's blunt in comparison. This seems to me to be closer to a strong woman as women would imagine themselves.

 

At first I was against having her played by Anne Hathaway, bythaway (See what I did there?), but the more I thought about it the more I thought this was a dead-on choice, especially when paired with the older sense of fashion the character subtley embraces, which look very good on Anne. She has that very plain and traditional beauty that matched the type of character Selina was: human in her limits but still cunning and graceful.

 

As a side note, I had actually expected Nolan would cast Ellen Page as Selina, since I could have seen her playing the role and he had already brought up just about everybody else from Inception.

 

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You know that slight romance between her and Batman? I totally ship it. She doesn't need romance, and it seems out of her character for her to care for Bruce, but that's what makes for a relationship, because a good relationship isn't necessarily something you need or something you're looking for. I just thought that her brand of femininity truly complemented Bruce Wayne's brand of masculinity. They don't share everything in common and are fairly different personalities, but they balance each other out, which while not completing each other (because they're already complete), it certainly completes the single unit that is their partnership.

 

So I'm glad that this character made it big in cinematic history. I'm sure she'll be helpful as an example when explaining certain philosophies about love and human nature.

 

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And HH, while I agree with some of your statements, I think it's important to realize the other side of things too. When it comes to lust (or the temptation thereof) caused by dress, one must always realize that by no means do even the greatest men have complete control over their bodies. Regardless of whether or not our will forces us to look away or such, immodest dress does prove both a distraction and a temptation. I can't exactly assume on your position, but your post made it seem like the matter was entirely on the side of men. When it comes to lust in that form, it's a bit more delicate a balance; on the one hand one can never, ever say that every temptation a man feels is the fault of the woman he just saw. A man can be tempted by a quite modestly dressed woman. However, the woman does have the duty to guard her own body as well.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but no. It is a person's responsibility to control themselves. That's all there is to it. It's not a matter of 'she was dressed that way, she was asking for it', or even 'he was dressed that way, i lost control'.

 

I've been around plenty of people in all sorts of modes of dress, I have yet to do anything to any of them. Because I believe the onus of responsibility falls on me not on every else around me. As an independent human being who exists on this earth I don't expect everyone to need to cater to me--I got enough of that when I was five. Now I take care of myself.

 

Also control of their bodies? You mean urges? Yeah, we get urges--that's life. I also get urges to skip work and eat cookies all day and I don't act on those or blame other people for those either.

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And allow someone to preach discrimination based on biology unopposed? Last I checked, that doesn't work out all that well.

 

I'll quote a song I rather like here.

 

 

We ain't the sort to turn away from a fight.

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And allow someone to preach discrimination based on biology unopposed? Last I checked, that doesn't work out all that well.

 

I'll quote a song I rather like here.

 

 

We ain't the sort to turn away from a fight.

 

 

Well I am. Go ahead and keep spewing hate, see how far that gets you - hate doesn't help your case or cause at all, but I'll leave others to judge. Good day.

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And allow someone to preach discrimination based on biology unopposed? Last I checked, that doesn't work out all that well.

 

I'll quote a song I rather like here.

 

 

We ain't the sort to turn away from a fight.

 

 

Well I am. Go ahead and keep spewing hate, see how far that gets you - hate doesn't help your case or cause at all, but I'll leave others to judge. Good day.

 

I don't quite think you're interpreting his posts correctly.

 

-Tyler

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And allow someone to preach discrimination based on biology unopposed? Last I checked, that doesn't work out all that well.

 

I'll quote a song I rather like here.

 

 

We ain't the sort to turn away from a fight.

 

 

Well I am. Go ahead and keep spewing hate, see how far that gets you - hate doesn't help your case or cause at all, but I'll leave others to judge. Good day.

 

I don't quite think you're interpreting his posts correctly.

 

-Tyler

 

 

The hate lies entirely in him name-calling and insulting other people, not the arguments he's been using themselves. My comments are entirely regarding that, not any factual or reasonable argument made by anyone here.

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So calling someone who favors keeping women out of the military or telling them to dress themselves to not tempt those weak-minded males sexist is name-calling?

 

.....That seems more along the lines of "accurate" to me. I posted the definition of sexism awhile back. It fits.

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I didn't see anyone calling anyone a name that wasn't thoroughly correct in its assignment.

 

-Tyler

I like you.

 

Incidentally, the statements being made now are so blatently ridiculous that none of us even need to counter them. They really speak for themselves. Some unbelievable statements being made now. Toa Nidhiki05 - I'd accept your approach in normal circumstances (like if we were arguing over what TV show is better or something) but this is a case of clear right and clear wrong. We should not give respect to the wrong - as that viewpoint doesn't give respect towards women. You may argue 'well you should be better than them and be respectful even if they're not', but that only leads to the idea staying and growing and spreading, and that isn't good. Such discrimination SHOULD be actively countered, and doing so aggressively is perfectly reasonable and understandable (though obviously staying chilled out is more productive).

 

Now, fingers crossed this comment doesn't get edited out like most of my others.

 

- Tilius

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This conversation is exactly why I keep saying that we need to stay away from this.

 

Basilisk seems to think that because he disagrees, and because he believes that his POV is fundamentally correct, that he is obligated to reply and counterargue. However, this very issue is not clear cut. Good people in the real world are debating this all the time. I believe that the SCOTUS will be hearing a case involving women in all combat operations sometime soon (or it may have been a federal court. I can't remember for sure.) But even if you are right, you are not under an obligation to reply. In fact, because this is BZPower, you are under an obligation not to stir up the flames of a present-day political issue. Just as it is not the fault of a woman and her taste in clothes that a man would be influenced, but rather the man's duty to check himself, here on BZP, it is the job of the members, whatever their views, to stay away from a charged political issue. If you think something like this is so fundamentally wrong that it requires a counterargument and a response, the best course of action is most likely reporting the comments, because as we all know, religion and politics are not allowed on BZP.

 

I am not saying that any of you are right or wrong in your beliefs. I am not saying that any of you are hateful or bad people for believing what you believe. I am saying that it is an unwise course of action to continue going over real-world issues like this, and once again I will restate: though I am a reporter, and not one of the moderating members of the staff, I am a member who has carried on with real world issues, and got burned. I still think I'm right and those I argued with are wrong. Those I argued with still think I'm wrong and that they're right. That does not matter. For all our fuss and all our charged discussion, all any of us got were some locked topics and blog entries, and as a Reference Keeper, I got a good talking to from those that trusted me with that position. I know not what everyone else in those past times dealt with.

 

Take it from me, it's better to stop before you gain the attention of the folks who are moderating staff. TMD already warned you guys once, and that was before 'hate' and 'insult' were added to terms like 'sexism'.

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Okay so, the hateful talk needs to stop? Like, now. Personally attacking anyone is not okay here.

 

I'm not saying men aren't going get a reaction from how some women dress, nor that they can always dismiss their feelings. What I was saying in my post is that placing the blame on a woman is wrong. But blaming the man for feeling that is also wrong. And vice-versa, because women can be very interested in the visual, as well. Trust me. It's not heard-of as often, but it's still a thing. There is no one to blame for what is natural. I'm not necessarily arguing you here, Zarayna, I'm just trying to further define my statement since you seem to maybe not completely understand.

 

People telling people to dress a certain way, and shaming and blaming them if they don't, is wrong. Because they would be judging them and being very rude to them. It's none of anyone's business how anybody else dresses.

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I didn't see anyone calling anyone a name that wasn't thoroughly correct in its assignment.

 

-Tyler

I like you.

 

Incidentally, the statements being made now are so blatently ridiculous that none of us even need to counter them. They really speak for themselves. Some unbelievable statements being made now. Toa Nidhiki05 - I'd accept your approach in normal circumstances (like if we were arguing over what TV show is better or something) but this is a case of clear right and clear wrong. We should not give respect to the wrong - as that viewpoint doesn't give respect towards women. You may argue 'well you should be better than them and be respectful even if they're not', but that only leads to the idea staying and growing and spreading, and that isn't good. Such discrimination SHOULD be actively countered, and doing so aggressively is perfectly reasonable and understandable (though obviously staying chilled out is more productive).

 

Now, fingers crossed this comment doesn't get edited out like most of my others.

 

- Tilius

 

 

I agree, a viewpoint that isn't respectful of women (or men, for that matter) should be rejected. I just feel the best way to reject it is through rational argument, where the ideas and results can be examined and the implications of the belief shown for all to see. A yelling match, on the other hand, drops you to the level of your opponent and can really harm a good argument or idea.

 

For example, in all of this yelling nobody brought up that even though men on average are physically stronger, women have better lower-body strength and higher pain tolerance/stamina than men. Such facts are infinately more useful than insults and could soundly reject the idea that women are too weak to serve in the military. Call me an idealist but I just like a good debate where the best side wins due to better evidence and factual support. :)

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Once you get further down the list you'll see that this is essentially my attitude, and this post doesn't contradict my views. I use the term "virtues of femininity", but I don't believe that certain virtues are feminine, so much as I believe that "femininity" has more virtue than what most men give it, hence shallow portrayals such as Black Widow that aren't really as human as Selina Kyle. I prefer characters who feel like real people, and I like to be able to see other people as real as well. I don't believe that there are explicitly feminine virtues and masculine virtues distinct from each other, but they share the same virtues and experience life, albeit in what I perceive to be in slightly different ways, since at the end of the day a woman experiences her life through a feminine mode and a male experiences life through a masculine mode. However one is to define those is a bit tricky, and figuring out what that is is bound to get someone to trip up with their wording from time to time as well as make certain false statements while trying to emphasize certain correct ones. The point is that I am writing this list as a man, looking from the outside in, knowing that I will never truly understand the opposite sex but knowing that I will almost certainly marry one of them, so I'm trying to put down what I know and what I value in a relationship. I gave some of my thoughts here because the virtues that she represents - virtues I admire universally - come up in a unique and feminine way that I find attractive.

 

Wait wait wait. You are basically saying:

 

"I agree that women and men are basically the same but I will never understand women."

 

......That....is a mighty big contradiction.

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7th Most Beautiful Female Character

1 Comment

8th Most Beautiful Female Character

89 Comments

 

Lol.

 

Come on, guys! Let's get ten more comments going and give Kraggh a nice big 100 comment record!

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Okay, I'm not going to discuss real women (which is what everyone else seems to be doing). Real women are real people. People are people. The end. I'm not gonna argue that a woman can't dress like she wants out in Real Life™. That's her business. She's a person, she can make her own choices.

 

The issue here is that she is a fictional character whose outfit was designed by men, for men - to appeal to male fantasy. It's why I have no beef with a woman in a bikini at the beach (or not at the beach, I'm not picky about my bikini women's locations) but prominently featuring a female character wearing a bikini in fiction rubs me the wrong way. Because she's designed to appeal to the, ah, primal part of the male psyche. Sex sells. She's not a person making her own choices. She's an object designed to separate hormonal men and their dollars. And I'm honestly not very okay with that. It makes women look like walking bosoms with no other notable traits.

 

And making her weak is even worse than making her strong. It means that she's useless without a big, strong man in shining armor. I wouldn't call that a good female character. That's Princess Peach in a black skin-tight, form-displaying catsuit.* Which is a stereotypically sexy item of clothing, mind you.

 

And before you start to say "oh come on, men are all super buff roided up studs!" That is also designed to appeal to men: the male empowerment fantasy. You're supposed to imagine yourself as them. You're supposed to be all "Yeah I could totally be that cool if I had powers" (or an infinite supply of guns, or martial arts expertise, or whatever). They're objects too, in a sense, but at least they aren't being used as nothing more than sex symbols. They can have depth not often seen in female characters.

 

And before you call me a prude: I've no problem with people sexualizing themselves how they like, regardless of gender. Heck, if you want to go in the nude outside, when the police inevitably come knockin', I wasn't the one who called. It's when it's a fictional character treated as a possession that I take issue. I was raised to treat people as people, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, et cetra, and I will do that so long as I live.

 

*I haven't seen the movie in question, this is going off of what the internets tell me. Still, even if I'm a bit off the mark, this is still an issue in general - and the clothing is still "sexy".

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Ok.

 

You do not get to tell people what to do with their bodies or what they can or cannot wear (no one has the right to do that), or that a woman has to constantly be on the guard to make sure that men aren't "tempted" by her. That is an absolute load of bull and the blatant sexism here needs to stop now. BZPower has zero tolerance for discrimination of any kind.

 

Entry locked, and it is staying locked.

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