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My Thoughts

Jinkmeister

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Personally, I think people should stop judging other people for the way they live their lives, or the people they're attracted to. Regardless of whether they were born that way or it was a choice, it's their life, and they have a right to use their life the way they see fit. If they feel attracted to something, it's wrong to judge them based on that. My advice? Before you say anything, put yourself in their shoes. Would you appreciate someone criticizing such a fundamental part of your lifestyle? Of course not. You don't have to agree with them but you do need to treat them with every bit of dignity and respect they deserve. Which is the same amount as everyone. Except maybe me :P

 

That being said, if someone disagrees with you, what's the purpose of calling them a bigot or a homophobe? I find that it helps nothing...instead, calmly support your position. You may not changed his mind, but now he respects you so much more, because no matter how he insulted you, you were the bigger man, and everyone respects that.

 

So, my thoughts? Love, respect, and dignify every single person, regardless of their gender, attractions, race, religion, beliefs...I guarantee everyone will be happier.

 

Again, that's just one lowly member's thoughts, feel free to take them how you will. :)



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That being said, if someone disagrees with you, what's the purpose of calling them a bigot or a homophobe?

 

Because they are wrong and because that is what they are?

 

 

 

You may not changed his mind, but now he respects you so much more

 

I have not seen it always work out this way.

 

That said, yeah, ideally everyone would remain calm, but it is really difficult to do so. One must learn to accept the anger of the oppressed.

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You may not changed his mind, but now he respects you so much more

 

I have not seen it always work out this way.

 

I have never seen it work out this way. Not once.

 

And yeah, to Jinkmeister - it is not your place to tell the oppressed how to act.

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There is such thing as righteous anger, yes. But in our culture, we're progressively moving toward a more accepting world...so anger is losing its place in the fight against oppression. It's now at the stage where I feel like name calling does nothing but alienate and degrade people...going against everything this movement stands for. It's time for both sides to be more kind and caring of those that disagree with them. A kind word does so much more than a thousand wicked ones.

 

Besides, if someone insults you, what better feeling then to say "yeah, maybe you're right,". He's now lost all his fuel. Then he really has nothing to come back with.

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That being said, if someone disagrees with you, what's the purpose of calling them a bigot or a homophobe?

 

Because they are wrong and because that is what they are?

 

 

I think you may have misunderstood the entry. It clearly reads "what's the purpose of..."--not "why..."; Jink is asking what one gains by doing so. Your response appears to state that you gain some enjoyment by telling the truth. Is that the case?

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There is such thing as righteous anger, yes. But in our culture, we're progressively moving toward a more accepting world...so anger is losing its place in the fight against oppression. It's now at the stage where I feel like name calling does nothing but alienate and degrade people...going against everything this movement stands for. It's time for both sides to be more kind and caring of those that disagree with them. A kind word does so much more than a thousand wicked ones. Besides, if someone insults you, what better feeling then to say "yeah, maybe you're right,". He's now lost all his fuel. Then he really has nothing to come back with.

 

Allow me to repeat:

 

You do not have the right to tell the oppressed how they ought to act. If they want to show rightfully-placed anger, who are you to tell them not to?

 

And finally, anger will and should always have a place in the fight against oppression.

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It's now at the stage where I feel like name calling does nothing but alienate and degrade people...

being told youre a disgusting bigot isnt alienating or degrading, its being called out and told the truth. having your ickle feelings hurt != actual oppression

 

 

It's time for both sides to be more kind and caring of those that disagree with them.

(1) being gay/bi/trans/etc isnt some "opinion" that you can "disagree" with (2) i dont have to be kind to someone who sees me as less human

 

 

Besides, if someone insults you, what better feeling then to say "yeah, maybe you're right,". He's now lost all his fuel. Then he really has nothing to come back with.

dude this isnt high school. if a group of guys came up to me in the street and accused me of being transgender and i said "yeah maybe youre right" i can guarantee you they wont just magically be stumped by it and move on. theyre going to beat the tar out of me.

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And yeah, to Jinkmeister - it is not your place to tell the oppressed how to act.

I'm speaking from experience. I've never been oppressed the way you have, certainly. But I do go through struggles, such as at work. I have several coworkers that never fail to insult or belittle me when they get a chance...and instead of snapping at them, I just say "yeah, you're probably right". Even if it doesn't stop them, I know I came out on top. And those around me that are actually respectful human beings see it, and those are the people that matter.

 

I can never identify with the struggle you guys go through...but I do know I hate seeing this site, and this world torn apart by these issues. If we focus on being good people, and treating every single person with respect, regardless of where they stand, we're the winners.

 

Guys, I already don't see this going anywhere productive. I just wanted to state my opinion, and I get told how wrong it is. That's how this will continue, so there's no point continuing. Sorry I tried tocintcontribute to the discussion.

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And finally, anger will and should always have a place in the fight against oppression.

Personally mate, I've found that when I have intense feelings rising up about the continued bigotry against Native Americans and, more specifically of what I think of, the Cherokee, I take a deep breath and prefer to let logic and reason be my guardians, not the frothing anger that will result in me breaking a man's ribs and being arrested for assault.

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And yeah, to Jinkmeister - it is not your place to tell the oppressed how to act.

I'm speaking from experience. I've never been oppressed the way you have, certainly. But I do go through struggles, such as at work. I have several coworkers that never fail to insult or belittle me when they get a chance...and instead of snapping at them, I just say "yeah, you're probably right". Even if it doesn't stop them, I know I came out on top. And those around me that are actually respectful human beings see it, and those are the people that matter.

 

I can never identify with the struggle you guys go through...but I do know I hate seeing this site, and this world torn apart by these issues. If we focus on being good people, and treating every single person with respect, regardless of where they stand, we're the winners.

 

 

I haven't been nearly as oppressed as a lot of the people you're belittling. Keep that in mind.

 

And no, having your feelings hurt DOES NOT COUNT AS OPPRESSION. It is insulting that you would argue that it does.

 

And if we do not do anything, nothing will change. There is no place for passivity.

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That being said, if someone disagrees with you, what's the purpose of calling them a bigot or a homophobe?

 

Because they are wrong and because that is what they are?

 

 

I think you may have misunderstood the entry. It clearly reads "what's the purpose of..."--not "why..."; Jink is asking what one gains by doing so. Your response appears to state that you gain some enjoyment by telling the truth. Is that the case?

 

 

Perhaps I was drawing a distinction between telling someone "You are being homophobic/bigoted/etc." and calling someone the words "homophobe" and "bigot." The two are functionally equivalent, but I suppose that one approach could be construed as more constructive than the other. Calling the other approach unjust or not right is wrong, though, and not really something that should be argued. In either case, I stand by my opinion that the anger is justified.

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Many of the cases of what could be termed oppression here on BZP stem from ignorance. Ignorance is not defeated by anger, but by knowledge and understanding. If you get angry at someone who is ignorant, if you call them names they do not want to hear - however true those names may be - you will do nothing but harden their resolve, and make them more convinced that being on the opposite side from such an angry person is the right thing to do.

 

The right way to proceed, now, is through education and public outreach programs. I am surprised that you, Canama, are not one-hundred percent behind such efforts.

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That being said, if someone disagrees with you, what's the purpose of calling them a bigot or a homophobe?

 

Because they are wrong and because that is what they are?

 

 

I think you may have misunderstood the entry. It clearly reads "what's the purpose of..."--not "why..."; Jink is asking what one gains by doing so. Your response appears to state that you gain some enjoyment by telling the truth. Is that the case?

 

 

Don't accuse Windrider of something that has no context in his post. He stated facts - noting that someone is a homophobe when they are saying homophobic things that are wrong and hurtful isn't an insult and there's nothing pleasurable about it. It's calling people out and holding them accountable for their harmful behaviour. There's not joy in that, but it is necessary if we're ever going to be able to seriously discuss and point out these issues and work for something better.

 

I have much more to say but I'm doing my hair so it'll have to wait 'til later.

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