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Expanded Multiverse Discussion Topic

Aethion EM Bionicle

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#201 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Sep 17 2012 - 02:44 PM

I'm fine with a Shared Pain mask, FTR. Otherwise it would be too much of an overlap.Taipu, reply in spoilers (so I guess anybody who wants to read his story, don't open this :P):
Spoiler
BTW, in future if yall have questions that might spoil your stories you can also PM me. :)Edit: While I'm posting, might as well say this. I'm not working on the Shards polls just yet. It's not really time sensitive for the moment and I'm trying to proofread my next Paracosmos story right now. However, the main holdup will be going through the old Discussion topic (prior to the original contest topic), since I'm accepting entries from there. I've done it before but I would want to go through it from start to finish to make sure I didn't miss any.Translation: If anyone else wants to do that for me, and give me the quotes (and member names) of all those entries, that would be really helpful. :)I don't need help with the old or new contest topics; those should go pretty fast. (Then once I've got them all, I'll need to eliminate the originals that were reposted.) FTR, the polls will quote the entries rather than link to anything, so the URLs are NOT needed, since links to the old forum would log voters out and be inconvenient.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 17 2012 - 02:48 PM.

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#202 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Sep 19 2012 - 10:12 PM

Hey Bones, a question or two for you (yes, again. Humor me.).In the EM, can only certain species (e.g. not Glatorian, Agori, Skrall) eat by straight up absorbing energy from food MU-style, or can all species do that? I know it's not as fun, but it would be an invaluable skill for soldiers or survivalists.If a large being gets Olmak Effected to Atohune, is he just stranded there, or is there a system in place to allow him to use a Totem without shattering the tower?Are most workers on Promathus pretty satisfied with their lives, or is there any kind of large-scale feeling of resistance toward the system?.Last one (for now :evil:); are there schools in the EM, or do most people spawn with enough knowledge to perform their vocation? And am I forgetting some painfully obvious part of the guide again?Thanks in advance :D.-TLhikan
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#203 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Sep 19 2012 - 10:32 PM

I'm fine with a Shared Pain mask, FTR. Otherwise it would be too much of an overlap.

Anybody up to writing the bio? :)

In the EM, can only certain species (e.g. not Glatorian, Agori, Skrall) eat by straight up absorbing energy from food MU-style, or can all species do that? I know it's not as fun, but it would be an invaluable skill for soldiers or survivalists.

That's an excellent question we never established. Based on the rule that the system of gender has to stay the same as for how beings are when they first come into being, but a device (Element Keys) can switch elements so the rule can be worked around, I think we want to stick to the basic canon rules as far as standard status goes, but an absorption device could exist to enable Glat/etc. to do that. :)

If a large being gets Olmak Effected to Atohune, is he just stranded there, or is there a system in place to allow him to use a Totem without shattering the tower?

He would have to send a normal-sized being through and convince the people that taking the Totem off the tower for a moment would entertain the 'Totem Spirit'. The towers are strong and big enough to handle your typical Bionicle titan, so this is probably rare, but given that the OE wouldn't be significantly affected over that distance, I think many would agree to this -- as long as the argument was "so they can get a closer look at this cool ground foliage". You'd have to avoid getting them thinking along the normal lines of why they have a tower which is "high up gives a better view."Of course, I think if there was strong enough material reimbursement motivation, even the most superstitious tribal leaders would be willing to ignore the 'spirit's entertainment desires' for long enough for people to come through. They do appreciate that there is a practical side to the Totems for trade. Most would probably urge higher payments for such a thing, though, as they believe the travel is courtesy of the power of the spirits so it's important to not actually anger them. (They'd spend this payment on making better parades to compensate, probably, lol, but I'm sure some would be savvy enough to have a profit motive.)If you were really smart, you'd probably buy newly designed parade paraphernalia like tassels and flags and just have your messenger offer these as the actual payment, maybe cutting corners a bit, but at the motivation of saving the tribesmen precious time and effort.

Are most workers on Promathus pretty satisfied with their lives, or is there any kind of large-scale feeling of resistance toward the system?

Somewhere in between. You know the cartoon Curtis, the dad who works at the DMV? Like him, I imagine.Of course, I'm sure there's a variety.

Last one (for now :evil:); are there schools in the EM, or do most people spawn with enough knowledge to perform their vocation? And am I forgetting some painfully obvious part of the guide again?

You're probably thinking of Kalek's flashback in Sticks & Stones. :P We revealed in there that -- at least on Alarist -- new beings are brought to basic education centers. There's a description of how it works there. They do have enough basic knowledge to function, like language and motor skills and all that, though.That basic system is probably how it's done on Central, Industrial, Shattered, and for the elites on Tyrant. There would likely be something similar but much more intensive on Enlightened (and filled with enlightenment stuff). Warzone, a much more rudimentary, "here's how it is, soldier" version. And Tribal, a more "time for your rite of passage!" idea. :)

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 19 2012 - 10:34 PM.

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#204 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Sep 23 2012 - 07:10 PM

I have a Kanohi idea:Mask of AmplificationAmplifies the pre-existing elemental powers of the user beyond their normal capacity, allowing the user to produce stronger blasts of their element and gain a more precise control of their element. The Great version grants the user Toa Nuva-level control of their element, while the Noble version grants the user Toa-level control of their element. The mask does not increase the pre-existing elemental energy reserves of the user, and neither version grants the user special elemental abilities the user does not already have (so users of the Great version cannot allow the user to create a 'time bomb' of their element, and the Noble version does not grant the user the ability to create a Toa seal or Nova blast). The mask is always on at a low level.Non-description disclaimer: Basically allows the user to draw more of their elemental energy reserve out at once. A Turaga of Fire, for instance, could make a much stronger fireball than they could usually make, but it would take out the appropriate amount of elemental energy. The mask is useless for users with no natural elemental powers, and cannot amplify the powers of non-elemental abilities.-TN05
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#205 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Sep 23 2012 - 07:50 PM

Am I allowed to suggest a mask power? If so:Mask of Split DuplicationThis mask allows the user to split their physical form into several copies - essentially the opposite of a Mask of Fusion. The split beings can maintain a limited hive-mind, and require no focus to remain split. However, if one being loses their mask, they will be unable to re-join with their original form. Each split duplicate has a fraction of the Elemental Energy, willpower, and physical stamina that the user had when they split - this amount decreases when more duplicates are created. If within a small area (approximately two Bio), the split beings can re-form at any time, however, only duplicates within the radius of the merging will actually merge. Any two duplicates may merge at any time, allowing them to use a greater amount of the original being's energy. However, any duplicates killed will be permanently unable to re-form, leaving the user crippled, and the mental backlash may have permanent effects. The Noble form of this mask only allows three duplicates to be created at once, whereas the Great form allows five.
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BZPRPG TIME, where you could have one post talk about dinner, and the next about lunch.

Time is beyond relative here.

There's no reason not to put lasers in the palms of planet-sized robots. In fact, if I had my own planet-sized robot, palm lasers would be one of my first upgrades. It's good for self-defense if you're attacked by something big.

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#206 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Sep 23 2012 - 08:26 PM

Am I allowed to suggest a mask power? If so:Mask of Split DuplicationThis mask allows the user to split their physical form into several copies - essentially the opposite of a Mask of Fusion. The split beings can maintain a limited hive-mind, and require no focus to remain split. However, if one being loses their mask, they will be unable to re-join with their original form. Each split duplicate has a fraction of the Elemental Energy, willpower, and physical stamina that the user had when they split - this amount decreases when more duplicates are created. If within a small area (approximately two Bio), the split beings can re-form at any time, however, only duplicates within the radius of the merging will actually merge. Any two duplicates may merge at any time, allowing them to use a greater amount of the original being's energy. However, any duplicates killed will be permanently unable to re-form, leaving the user crippled, and the mental backlash may have permanent effects. The Noble form of this mask only allows three duplicates to be created at once, whereas the Great form allows five.

Yep, as the EM is user-based, any user can request a Kanohi for EM canonization. :)I like the mask - it has a very solid power that could be helpful in scouting or combat, for instance, but has some very sharp drawbacks that limit that power.-TN05

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#207 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Sep 23 2012 - 10:56 PM

Yep, as the EM is user-based, any user can request a Kanohi for EM canonization. :)

Good to hear, as I've got some ideas in mind.

I like the mask - it has a very solid power that could be helpful in scouting or combat, for instance, but has some very sharp drawbacks that limit that power.

Well, thanks! To be honest, I initially imagined it as a reverse Kaita fusion - a way for a Toa or other being to gain the advantage in numbers but lose it in power. The rest sort of flowed naturally from that idea.Also, how about this one:Kanohi Robus, Mask of ResistanceBy using this mask, the user has the ability to make any targeted object tougher and better-reinforced. This can be used on a being's armor, though it will have a hampering effect on movement. The radius for this mask's effect varies with type: the Noble form can reach objects approximately two and a half Bio away, whereas the Great version can reach and affect objects up to five Bio away. This can also prevent objects from rusting, corroding, or (within a limit) melting. The Noble version, however, cannot affect organic substances, nor can it stop objects from melting or vaporizing. Neither the Noble nor Great version works on Protosteel. The effects of the mask will cease when the user stops focusing on the target, though the target will still have a very slight increase to durability after the mask's effect wears off.Basically, it's the opposite of the Jutlin. Conceptualized when I wondered how exactly a Kanohi Jutlin could be countered. It's also a "sort of" opposite to the Mask of Entropy, in that it can prevent objects from breaking down. Combine with a Toa of Iron for best results. :P

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BZPRPG TIME, where you could have one post talk about dinner, and the next about lunch.

Time is beyond relative here.

There's no reason not to put lasers in the palms of planet-sized robots. In fact, if I had my own planet-sized robot, palm lasers would be one of my first upgrades. It's good for self-defense if you're attacked by something big.

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#208 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 01:29 AM

TN05 -- I like it, but do we already have an amplifying mask power? Too lazy to check right now. :PMeta-Mind, Split Duplication -- I like. When I first read the opening of the bio, I was imagining that if you split into two, each would be half your mass, though. Kaita do not alter total mass. I admit it would be kinda silly to have five 1/5-sized Toa though. :P And it would obviously be more practical if they were the same size. But anytime extra mass is involved I'm always thinking, where's it come from? Maybe it should have something like a special sub-Life elemental energy which takes time to recharge, so after use there might be a time limit before it can be re-used? Say, about an hour for each copy?Also, I'm a little unsure about allowing each copy to go anywhere. You give a range limit on how close they can be to merge, but I'd imagine it more like if they go too far away they would automatically re-merge, so they couldn't just walk away and essentially become permanent identical twins. Also, what if they switch masks, etc.? Is it, once activated, an active power that is holding the duplicate in existence, or a passive that creates it and then it's self-sufficient?I'm unsure, though, because I imagine some cool story scenarios could come out of allowing them to go however far away, so I'll leave that up to you. :)Also, are you saying each duplicate has to keep wearing the mask? So, for example, if an enemy smashes one of their masks, that duplicate is basically turned into a permanant twin, with the original only capable of whatever fraction of power they had spread out over themselves and however many other copies they had at the time? Or could they get another mask, and rejoin the group?All that said, I don't want to imply that the definition should be crazy-long, just food for thought.Finally, this is probably neither here nor there, but this reminds me of something Eric Nylund did in A Signal Shattered, the second book after Signal to Noise, both books I highly recommend. There was a split duplication-like effect that went all out in that book. Obviously this has to be more limited, though, so yeah, just sayin' for the sake of sayin'. :PMask of Resistance -- I likey! Some of the Noble rules seem a bit complicated and arbitrary though. Kinda similar to the Rau, but like I said, the shorter the bio generally the better; for Split Duplication I think a lot of definition may be necessary but for this one I think shorter is probably better. Maybe just "not organic"? Also, not sure the Protosteel thing is necessary. Maybe just a general statement that any material that is already extraordinarily resistant to such things will have less benefit from this mask.
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#209 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 09:57 AM

Just clarifying, Toa Nuva exist in the Multiverse right? But they're significantly more rare than standard Toa?
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#210 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 10:23 AM

TN05 -- I like it, but do we already have an amplifying mask power? Too lazy to check right now. :P

It appears we do:

Kanohi Mokra, the Mask of AmplificationPosted ImageAllows the wearer to amplify any sort of effect, whether it be a physical blow, mental assualt, elemental attack, or some other phenomenon. However, the larger and longer the amplification, the more mental concentration it will take to keep it going. Maximum amplification is twice the original amount. Suggested by Zarkan, merged with a similar concept mask by bonesiii.

There do appear to be some significant differences - the Mokra requires increasing concentration to continue the effect, and it also works for all powers. My suggestion only increases two things - the maximum amount of elemental energy a user can release at once and the user's potential level of control over pre-existing elemental areas. It is also always on at a low level, and cannot actually 'amplify' existing elemental areas, so there really isn't too much overlap aside from similar name. I think if it were to be renamed to the 'Mask of Elemental Amplification' or something similar, it would fit just fine.-TN05
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#211 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 12:50 PM

Just clarifying, Toa Nuva exist in the Multiverse right? But they're significantly more rare than standard Toa?

I don't know that we have established this. I'm fine with saying they exist but are very, very rare. I'm not sure if they would have to jump in Energized Protodermis with a destiny not to get destroyed, though. We haven't established much about the nature of destiny and EP in the MU, nor, if we did, could I likely reveal it. :P However, I'm thinking that definitely some Toa could be spawned as Nuva due to the random mixing and matching system.

TN05 -- I like it, but do we already have an amplifying mask power? Too lazy to check right now. :P

It appears we do:

Kanohi Mokra, the Mask of AmplificationPosted ImageAllows the wearer to amplify any sort of effect, whether it be a physical blow, mental assualt, elemental attack, or some other phenomenon. However, the larger and longer the amplification, the more mental concentration it will take to keep it going. Maximum amplification is twice the original amount. Suggested by Zarkan, merged with a similar concept mask by bonesiii.

There do appear to be some significant differences - the Mokra requires increasing concentration to continue the effect, and it also works for all powers. My suggestion only increases two things - the maximum amount of elemental energy a user can release at once and the user's potential level of control over pre-existing elemental areas. It is also always on at a low level, and cannot actually 'amplify' existing elemental areas, so there really isn't too much overlap aside from similar name. I think if it were to be renamed to the 'Mask of Elemental Amplification' or something similar, it would fit just fine.-TN05

Yeah, I thought we did, 'cuz that mask shape I originally had as one in Paracosmos planning, but decided against it. I knew I used it for a fan-submitted mask but couldn't remember if it was that power. Anywho... the Mokra is actually multiplying the energy involved in whatever it's applied to, so yes, your mask is something different. You're not actually amping up amounts but giving more access to existing amounts. Perhaps a different word than Amplification?I was thinking, it's something like floodgates. Opening a proverbial floodgate wider than normally possible. I dunno, probably too misleading of a term though.

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#212 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Sep 24 2012 - 02:05 PM

Yeah, I thought we did, 'cuz that mask shape I originally had as one in Paracosmos planning, but decided against it. I knew I used it for a fan-submitted mask but couldn't remember if it was that power. Anywho... the Mokra is actually multiplying the energy involved in whatever it's applied to, so yes, your mask is something different. You're not actually amping up amounts but giving more access to existing amounts. Perhaps a different word than Amplification?I was thinking, it's something like floodgates. Opening a proverbial floodgate wider than normally possible. I dunno, probably too misleading of a term though.

Yeah, amplification is a poor term in hindsight. The floodgate example is pretty good (since the mask allows the user greater access and control over their pre-existing elemental energy reserves and allows greater and more precise control over larger pre-existing element samples than they would naturally have, without granting any other special abilities), but it would hard to fit that into a mask title. The best I could think of is 'Mask of Gate', which isn't that great. :PPerhaps 'Mask of Elemental Access'?-TN05

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#213 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Sep 26 2012 - 04:01 PM

Meta-Mind, Split Duplication -- I like. When I first read the opening of the bio, I was imagining that if you split into two, each would be half your mass, though. Kaita do not alter total mass. I admit it would be kinda silly to have five 1/5-sized Toa though. :P And it would obviously be more practical if they were the same size. But anytime extra mass is involved I'm always thinking, where's it come from? Maybe it should have something like a special sub-Life elemental energy which takes time to recharge, so after use there might be a time limit before it can be re-used? Say, about an hour for each copy?Also, I'm a little unsure about allowing each copy to go anywhere. You give a range limit on how close they can be to merge, but I'd imagine it more like if they go too far away they would automatically re-merge, so they couldn't just walk away and essentially become permanent identical twins. Also, what if they switch masks, etc.? Is it, once activated, an active power that is holding the duplicate in existence, or a passive that creates it and then it's self-sufficient?I'm unsure, though, because I imagine some cool story scenarios could come out of allowing them to go however far away, so I'll leave that up to you. :)Also, are you saying each duplicate has to keep wearing the mask? So, for example, if an enemy smashes one of their masks, that duplicate is basically turned into a permanant twin, with the original only capable of whatever fraction of power they had spread out over themselves and however many other copies they had at the time? Or could they get another mask, and rejoin the group?

Ah, good point. I planned on doing something with mass initially to explain the "copy limit," but it might've gotten lost somewhere. The general idea is that density decreases with each copy, but the copy steadily becomes slightly more solid over time by drawing matter from the environment. I suppose that putting more focus/energy into the mask could increase copy density as well.That was very intentional. The copies can wander however far off, but they remain "hiveminded" unless their mask is removed, and can only merge if within about two Bio. Additionally, mask switching essentially deactivates the hivemind connection, but switching the mask back quickly enough (before the user's psyche gets "disjointed" from the linked consciousness and basically becomes a slightly different person) could allow it to be maintained.Story situations are definitely a thing; I have this idea of some insane tyrant who clones himself using this mask, removes all the masks but one, waits a while to let his stamina, mass, and EE replinish, then... does it again. Making an endless army of himself, but at the cost of his own sanity.The "permanent twin..." well, like I said above, removing the mask severs the hive-mind and lets the user function on their own. Putting it back on within a certain time frame can allow the user to rejoin the merge. Another mask just won't work, though, it has to be the same mask.In terms of practicality, reduced strength + removed mask would probably equal a guaranteed kill, so the "accidental twin in combat" probably won't come up. Although, one would think Olmak Effect space shenanigans could re-merge two clones, even if they did desynch... but that's a plot point for later. :P

Finally, this is probably neither here nor there, but this reminds me of something Eric Nylund did in A Signal Shattered, the second book after Signal to Noise, both books I highly recommend. There was a split duplication-like effect that went all out in that book. Obviously this has to be more limited, though, so yeah, just sayin' for the sake of sayin'. :P

Don't think I've read A Signal Shattered. Hm.

Mask of Resistance -- I likey! Some of the Noble rules seem a bit complicated and arbitrary though. Kinda similar to the Rau, but like I said, the shorter the bio generally the better; for Split Duplication I think a lot of definition may be necessary but for this one I think shorter is probably better. Maybe just "not organic"? Also, not sure the Protosteel thing is necessary. Maybe just a general statement that any material that is already extraordinarily resistant to such things will have less benefit from this mask.

Eh, you may be right about the Noble rules. As far as Protosteel goes, Protosteel Shield/armor + Kanohi Nuva Mask of Resistance (you know it'll happen eventually) would be the most overpowered defensive combination in the known universe. That's why I removed that, though I may change it up.

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BZPRPG TIME, where you could have one post talk about dinner, and the next about lunch.

Time is beyond relative here.

There's no reason not to put lasers in the palms of planet-sized robots. In fact, if I had my own planet-sized robot, palm lasers would be one of my first upgrades. It's good for self-defense if you're attacked by something big.

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#214 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Sep 27 2012 - 03:19 PM

Story situations are definitely a thing; I have this idea of some insane tyrant who clones himself using this mask, removes all the masks but one, waits a while to let his stamina, mass, and EE replinish, then... does it again. Making an endless army of himself, but at the cost of his own sanity.

I had a feeling. BTW, it's worth noting that I think we said something similar to this was possible with Reality Shifting, so you could ditch the need for mass explanations by simply saying this is a specifically defined sub-power of that, which removes some of the randomness of that effect. 'Cuz the description shouldn't get -too- long.Just to add on to what I meant about the Protosteel thing, I would go with what I said about less benefit for already-strong things and say that some especially tough substances, especially protosteel, get no benefit at all. My concern is that there are in the EM (and likely unestablished but existing in canon Bionicle) a vast variety of possible substances that are almost as tough naturally as Protosteel, so to only single that out as an exception would open those others up to being very overpowered. Protodiamond for example.So, if you could write up revised versions of those two I'll add them to the reference topic. :)ToaNidhiki, Elemental Access works. *makes mental note to add it...*

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#215 Offline Toa Nidhiki05

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Posted Sep 27 2012 - 06:13 PM

ToaNidhiki, Elemental Access works. *makes mental note to add it...*

OK, good. Just add this revised version which replaces 'amplification' and is easier to read.Mask of Elemental AccessAllows the user to access more of their pre-existing elemental energy reserves than they normally are able to, as well as have greater and more precise control over pre-existing elemental samples. The mask does not grant the user special abilities that the user does not already possess, and does not increase the user's elemental energy reserves or the recharge period if they run out of elemental energy. The Great version of the mask allows the user to create and control their element with the approximate power of a Toa Nuva, and the Noble version allows the user to create and control their element with the approximate power of a standard Toa. The mask is always on at a low level.-TN05

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#216 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Sep 27 2012 - 07:00 PM

Story situations are definitely a thing; I have this idea of some insane tyrant who clones himself using this mask, removes all the masks but one, waits a while to let his stamina, mass, and EE replinish, then... does it again. Making an endless army of himself, but at the cost of his own sanity.

I had a feeling. BTW, it's worth noting that I think we said something similar to this was possible with Reality Shifting, so you could ditch the need for mass explanations by simply saying this is a specifically defined sub-power of that, which removes some of the randomness of that effect. 'Cuz the description shouldn't get -too- long.Just to add on to what I meant about the Protosteel thing, I would go with what I said about less benefit for already-strong things and say that some especially tough substances, especially protosteel, get no benefit at all. My concern is that there are in the EM (and likely unestablished but existing in canon Bionicle) a vast variety of possible substances that are almost as tough naturally as Protosteel, so to only single that out as an exception would open those others up to being very overpowered. Protodiamond for example.So, if you could write up revised versions of those two I'll add them to the reference topic. :)

Deal.Mask of Split DuplicationThis mask allows the user to manipulate reality in order to split their physical form into several copies - essentially the opposite of a Mask of Fusion in effect. The split beings can maintain a limited hive-mind, and require no focus to remain split. However, if one being loses their mask, they will be unable to re-join with their original form unless the mask is replaced within a short time.. Each split duplicate has a fraction of the Elemental Energy, willpower, and physical stamina that the user had when they split - this amount decreases when more duplicates are created. If within a small area (approximately two Bio), any two split beings can re-form at any time, however, only duplicates within the radius of the merging will actually merge. However, any duplicates killed will be permanently unable to re-form, leaving the user crippled, and the mental backlash may have permanent effects. The Noble form of this mask only allows three split forms to be created at once, whereas the Great form allows six.Kanohi Robus, Mask of ResistanceBy using this mask, the user has the ability to make any targeted object tougher and better-reinforced. This can be used on a being's armor, though it will have a hampering effect on movement. The radius for this mask's effect varies with type: the Noble form can reach objects approximately two and a half Bio away, whereas the Great version can reach and affect objects up to five Bio away. This can also prevent objects from rusting, corroding, or (within a limit) melting. The Noble version, however, cannot actively stop objects from melting, decaying, or vaporizing. The effects of the mask will cease when the user stops focusing on the target, though the target will still have a very slight increase to durability after the mask's effect wears off. This mask is less effective on naturally tougher substances, such as Protosteel.

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#217 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 06:48 PM

I got a new idea for a few masks, but I want to ask this: Is there an EM zodiac? And if so, do they vary between planets?-Tomdroidser
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#218 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 12:38 AM

New masks added.

I got a new idea for a few masks, but I want to ask this: Is there an EM zodiac? And if so, do they vary between planets?-Tomdroidser

Are you asking about stars & constellations? Because there are no other bodies in the Aethion Universe other than the eight planets, and the Cargo Star artificial sun satellites around six of them. No stars, so no zodiac.I wouldn't rule out that the orbits of the CSes might align in certain ways with the other planets as viewed from each particular planet (of the six with CSes), so something similar might be possible. But it's probably the sort of thing I'd rather not define exactly or use in the Cipher Chronicles as it could get quite complicated.

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#219 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Oct 05 2012 - 01:39 AM

Well, anyways, I still got a new mask idea:Mask of Moral AlignmentAllows the user to split into two beings. Each being is as close to an equal as another. In most cases, one being made by the mask will have the good moral alignment and the power over light, but the other is evil and has power over shadows. Each new being has a Kanohi mask which holds a different power, but will also have the ability to sense the other half. The two beings will have a unbreakable telekinetic connection between each other that can't be touched by other beings. Will not work on purely alligned natural beings such as Av-Matoran and Makuta unless stated otherwise. This is not cloning or unfusing, but something completly different.It's still in development and I got an example of its use, but I'll post the final product later. Also, just to let you all know, this mask basically works on the principles/concept of Yin and Yang.-Tomdroidser
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#220 Offline Lewigi

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Posted Oct 20 2012 - 04:14 PM

What is the nature of destiny in Aethion. Since destiny was set by the MU robot in the core dimension, I am led to believe it does not exist. However, that then gives me trouble on the nature of Toa Stones and EP, both of which work differently depending on destiny.
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#221 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Oct 20 2012 - 04:29 PM

What is the nature of destiny in Aethion. Since destiny was set by the MU robot in the core dimension, I am led to believe it does not exist. However, that then gives me trouble on the nature of Toa Stones and EP, both of which work differently depending on destiny.

I've been wondering about that, I figured it existed, but not to the extremity it does in the MU. By this I mean it exists as potential, so that a being destined to become a Toa could do, and could be changed by EP or something like that. However, this doesn't mean they have to. A being not destined to be a Toa, never could become one though. I'm pretty sure it's been stated that destiny does not exist to the full MU extent.I did have a sort of comic book style story idea, where an evil villain creates this "Destiny field" which they put over wiki-nui, sending into a state of planned disarray, which they're in control of. The villain would eventually be conquered by his own device, when the hero gains access to the machine, and changes their own destiny to be destined to change the machine, and changes the villains destiny to be defeated, then destines the machine to be destroyed. But I couldn't be bothered with it, and that ending seemed far to confusing... :P

Edited by Taipu1, Oct 20 2012 - 04:29 PM.

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#222 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 23 2012 - 04:27 AM

Tom, I like it. It's another with a name I'm not sure about though. The name doesn't call to mind the power. I was thinking something with the word manifestation in it, but I dunno.LL, that's a very good question we haven't really considered. Matoran can become Toa and Toa Turaga. It's also possible a Toa could be spawned in that form. And Toa can use their Toa energy for various purposes to become Turaga. The role of destiny in all this is unclear.I think we could establish a mechanism for it, but I couldn't explain it as I'd be giving away some of the big secrets. And in a sense there is a form of destiny that is already in play, but I also can't speak to that. :POne thing I can say for sure that may help is that it's possible for a Matoran to pick up a Toa Stone and fail to become a Toa, even if they are destined. Since canonically Takua did this -- the same basic procedure as the Toa Metru, putting Toa Stones on a Suva -- but he only became a Toa when the equivalent, the Mask of Life, was handy, and he made the choice to embrace being a hero. So canonically there seems to be two requirements; that you're ready and destined. I would say that at least in the majority of cases, if you're ready for the role in the EM, you're destined.

I'm pretty sure it's been stated that destiny does not exist to the full MU extent.

Well, if we said that, I've forgotten it. :P Might not be too hard to search on the old forums... *decides to do so*Hm. Here's one statement from a Denizens contest winner that we allowed:

Fenuwa's team's destiny was originally to capture the leader of a spy organization

I see no reason to retcon this. How literal it is in terms of the MU style of destiny I can't be explicit about right now. But of course we didn't always know what we know about that either.I found no other use of destiny, at least in a post by me or in combination with Aethion/Multiverse in S&T. BRC search gave this:

Turaga & MatoranBoth Toa and Turaga are different versions of the Matoran species. Matoran are small like Agori but are more mechanical. Some Matoran have the destiny to become a tall Toa hero, gaining elemental power and the ability to use Great mask powers. But some Toa also sacrifice their powers for various reasons, becoming Turaga. These elders are in between Matoran and Toa in height, can only use the weaker Noble versions of Kanohi masks, and only have a tiny amount of elemental control.

So, I confirmed that Matoran can have destinies (while others don't) to become Toa. So yes, it's twice confirmed to exist, but I can't speak to the nature of it at this time.

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#223 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Oct 24 2012 - 05:11 PM

I'm pretty sure it's been stated that destiny does not exist to the full MU extent.

Well, if we said that, I've forgotten it. :P Might not be too hard to search on the old forums... *decides to do so*Hm. Here's one statement from a Denizens contest winner that we allowed:

Fenuwa's team's destiny was originally to capture the leader of a spy organization

I see no reason to retcon this. How literal it is in terms of the MU style of destiny I can't be explicit about right now. But of course we didn't always know what we know about that either.I found no other use of destiny, at least in a post by me or in combination with Aethion/Multiverse in S&T. BRC search gave this:

Turaga & MatoranBoth Toa and Turaga are different versions of the Matoran species. Matoran are small like Agori but are more mechanical. Some Matoran have the destiny to become a tall Toa hero, gaining elemental power and the ability to use Great mask powers. But some Toa also sacrifice their powers for various reasons, becoming Turaga. These elders are in between Matoran and Toa in height, can only use the weaker Noble versions of Kanohi masks, and only have a tiny amount of elemental control.

So, I confirmed that Matoran can have destinies (while others don't) to become Toa. So yes, it's twice confirmed to exist, but I can't speak to the nature of it at this time.

When in doubt, Reality Shift. :POr does that not apply here?So, Bones, in the EM, is there a "general" way that Toa Stones release their energies (the right Matoran picks it up, it gets put in a Suva, etc.), or is it just whatever?-TLhikanEDIT: Is it bad form to point out that this is my 900th post?

Edited by TLhikan, Oct 24 2012 - 05:11 PM.

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#224 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 24 2012 - 06:44 PM

When in doubt, Reality Shift. :POr does that not apply here?

Not really. We don't want that to be a copout/catchall.

So, Bones, in the EM, is there a "general" way that Toa Stones release their energies (the right Matoran picks it up, it gets put in a Suva, etc.), or is it just whatever?

I see it as the same as in canon, and although that's not 100% pinned down with quotes from Greg, here's my understanding of that (to summarize what I said in another topic recently). A destined Matoran may at any time trigger the transformation if either they are in contact with the Stone (or equivalent object if it's something else charged with the Toa energy, like Takua and the Avhokii), or if it is in a Suva they are near (so the Suva channels the energy much like a Toa Tool channeling elements). To do this they must be mentally ready.Takua's case is the closest to what I imagine as the general way. The difference is that since it was a mask, he did not reach the fully ready state until he symbolized by an action the coming to completion of this mental change by putting the mask on. But at any point while holding it if ready he could have transformed. Say, a rockslide hits, knocking or killing everybody else, and he's half-buried, can't get the mask to his face, but he is still touching it. Such a barrier would make him want to feel more ready so he wouldn't need to do the action of putting the mask on.With a Toa Stone I imagine most would simply look at it and grip it tightly, psyching themselves up for the tasks they must take on, and that would trigger it.Keep in mind Suva are rare in the EM too.

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#225 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Oct 24 2012 - 08:12 PM

After looking at one of the above poster's mask designs, I figured that I could help out with it, and assist in differentiating from the Mask of Split Duplication. As such, here's my edited version (either Tom or Bonesii can turn it down if you guys want, though I think it's a slightly better design).Mask of Moral ManifestationAllows the user to make their inner Light and Shadow manifest, splitting into two linked beings. One being will be aligned with Creation and Light, and will have an elemental affliation with Light. The other will be aligned with Destruction and Shadow, and has an elemental affliation with Shadow. In the case of beings like Toa or Turaga who have Elemental Powers, the two split beings will have the Elemental Powers of Light and Shadow, and can only access the original being's Elemental Power when working in conjunction. Each being gains the ability to sense their other split being, and the two gain a permanent telepathic connection.On beings with purely Inner Shadow or purely Inner Light, such as the Makuta of the prime Matoran Universe and the Melding Alternate Universe respectively, this mask will be incapable of functioning.Finally, each being's mask becomes a modified version of this mask, sometimes referred to as the Mask of Moral Reunification. This mask allows the beings to re-merge into their original form, as long as they are within about two Bio of each other. It should be noted, however, that any Olmak Effects in the immediate area of a re-fusion can result in a variety of effects, such as one or both beings being copied, transported to seperate worlds, or permanently severing the two beings from each other and rendering their Masks of Moral Reunification useless.So I just removed the "additional Kanohi" bit (as I figured re-fusing would be the mask power) and changed a few other mechanics here and there. What do you guys think?
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#226 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 01:46 AM

Mask of Moral ManifestationAllows the user to make their inner Light and Shadow manifest, splitting into two linked beings. One being will be aligned with Creation and Light, and will have an elemental affliation with Light. The other will be aligned with Destruction and Shadow, and has an elemental affliation with Shadow. In the case of beings like Toa or Turaga who have Elemental Powers, the two split beings will have the Elemental Powers of Light and Shadow, and can only access the original being's Elemental Power when working in conjunction. Each being gains the ability to sense their other split being, and the two gain a permanent telepathic connection.On beings with purely Inner Shadow or purely Inner Light, such as the Makuta of the prime Matoran Universe and the Melding Alternate Universe respectively, this mask will be incapable of functioning.Finally, each being's mask becomes a modified version of this mask, sometimes referred to as the Mask of Moral Reunification. This mask allows the beings to re-merge into their original form, as long as they are within about two Bio of each other. It should be noted, however, that any Olmak Effects in the immediate area of a re-fusion can result in a variety of effects, such as one or both beings being copied, transported to seperate worlds, or permanently severing the two beings from each other and rendering their Masks of Moral Reunification useless.

I'll just modify what you just said.Mask of Moral SeperationSplits the wearer into two beings. Under ordinary conditions, both beings have the original's elemental power, but each has power over light or shadows. They are more or less equals. In addition to each having most of the original's abilities, both have a unique telepatic link that can't normaly be sensed, unable to age, and can't use extremely powerful moves like Nova Blast unless working in unison. The two beings are also immune to being fused to each other. Any unique personal armor or weapon on the wearer will also split into light and shadow halves unless there are two sets on the wearer at the time of seperation. Since this mask is usually worn over another mask, the two beings will each wear a seperate mask, if possible, originally worn by the original in the past under the condition that it is a mask they can control and not unique to anybody else. Any elemental power each creates will either have a lighter or darker version of the regular. The two Kanohi also have the hidden power to reunify the original under conditions different to each Mask of Moral Seperation. Can't be normally used on beings who wield pure Light or Shadows like Av-Matoran or Makuta.This mask has various risks. If one being dies, then the other half would sense it. The other half would subconciously try to obtain its other self's body. Once brought together the two halves merge back into the original regardless of the conditions, but the original will be considered "incomplete" and will exhibit flaws it originally (except aging) didn't have. Under the Olmak Effect, the Mask of Moral Seperation could create unusual side effects ranging from both suffering amnesia to incredibly drastic changes and new, unexpected abilities. Beings forced from their natural element, such as a Shadow Takanuva, could wear the mask and divide into a Shadow version and a Light version. Depending on where you go, goverments label it as an immoral, semi-dangerous, or a regular mask.Example of mask in use:Post-Hordika Toa Metru Vakama wears Mask of Moral Seperation and activates it. He seperates himself into two Vakamas: one being his Toa Metru self with the added bonus of wielding Light, and another being his Toa Hordika self with the ability to manipulate shadows. Toa Metru Vakama embodies the majority of Vakama's mental stability and skilled thinking, but Hordika Vakama embodies his instinct and fighting abilities. Metru Vakama produces a brighter Fire element, and Hordika Vakama attacks with black flames.If anyone wants a different name, then please suggest.-Tomdroidser

Edited by tomdroidser, Oct 26 2012 - 02:18 AM.

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#227 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 01:58 AM

I haven't had time to read the latest two posts, but both of them are getting very long. :P We generally aim for very concise.
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#228 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 11:17 PM

Mask of Moral ManifestationAllows the user to make their inner Light and Shadow manifest, splitting into two linked beings. One being will be aligned with Creation and Light, and will have an elemental affliation with Light. The other will be aligned with Destruction and Shadow, and has an elemental affliation with Shadow. In the case of beings like Toa or Turaga who have Elemental Powers, the two split beings will have the Elemental Powers of Light and Shadow, and can only access the original being's Elemental Power when working in conjunction. Each being gains the ability to sense their other split being, and the two gain a permanent telepathic connection.On beings with purely Inner Shadow or purely Inner Light, such as the Makuta of the prime Matoran Universe and the Melding Alternate Universe respectively, this mask will be incapable of functioning.Finally, each being's mask becomes a modified version of this mask, sometimes referred to as the Mask of Moral Reunification. This mask allows the beings to re-merge into their original form, as long as they are within about two Bio of each other. It should be noted, however, that any Olmak Effects in the immediate area of a re-fusion can result in a variety of effects, such as one or both beings being copied, transported to seperate worlds, or permanently severing the two beings from each other and rendering their Masks of Moral Reunification useless.

I'll just modify what you just said.Mask of Moral SeperationSplits the wearer into two beings. Under ordinary conditions, both beings have the original's elemental power, but each has power over light or shadows. They are more or less equals. In addition to each having most of the original's abilities, both have a unique telepatic link that can't normaly be sensed, unable to age, and can't use extremely powerful moves like Nova Blast unless working in unison. The two beings are also immune to being fused to each other. Any unique personal armor or weapon on the wearer will also split into light and shadow halves unless there are two sets on the wearer at the time of seperation. Since this mask is usually worn over another mask, the two beings will each wear a seperate mask, if possible, originally worn by the original in the past under the condition that it is a mask they can control and not unique to anybody else. Any elemental power each creates will either have a lighter or darker version of the regular. The two Kanohi also have the hidden power to reunify the original under conditions different to each Mask of Moral Seperation. Can't be normally used on beings who wield pure Light or Shadows like Av-Matoran or Makuta.This mask has various risks. If one being dies, then the other half would sense it. The other half would subconciously try to obtain its other self's body. Once brought together the two halves merge back into the original regardless of the conditions, but the original will be considered "incomplete" and will exhibit flaws it originally (except aging) didn't have. Under the Olmak Effect, the Mask of Moral Seperation could create unusual side effects ranging from both suffering amnesia to incredibly drastic changes and new, unexpected abilities. Beings forced from their natural element, such as a Shadow Takanuva, could wear the mask and divide into a Shadow version and a Light version. Depending on where you go, goverments label it as an immoral, semi-dangerous, or a regular mask.Example of mask in use:Post-Hordika Toa Metru Vakama wears Mask of Moral Seperation and activates it. He seperates himself into two Vakamas: one being his Toa Metru self with the added bonus of wielding Light, and another being his Toa Hordika self with the ability to manipulate shadows. Toa Metru Vakama embodies the majority of Vakama's mental stability and skilled thinking, but Hordika Vakama embodies his instinct and fighting abilities. Metru Vakama produces a brighter Fire element, and Hordika Vakama attacks with black flames.If anyone wants a different name, then please suggest.-Tomdroidser

I haven't had time to read the latest two posts, but both of them are getting very long. :P We generally aim for very concise.

Alright, then, let me make this a bit more concise.Mask of Moral SeperationAllows the user to divide their inner Light and Shadow, splitting into two beings. These beings maintain an unbreakable telepathic connection, essentially sharing thoughts and focus freely. As a result of their creation, one being has only moral Light and is aligned with Creation, and one being has only moral Shadow and is aligned with Destruction. In the case of elementally-associated beings, each being maintains some control over their original element, as well as gaining limited Light and Shadow powers. However, these powers tend to be linked - for example, a Toa of Fire's "light side" might create primarily bright flares, while his "dark side" might be more inclined to make less powerful flame and absorb heat from areas. Another odd side effect of this mask on Toa and similar beings is that the two beings draw from a shared resivoir of Elemental Energy.Physically, the two beings each have physical variations from the original, primarily in lighter or darker armor shades. However, in most cases, the "dark form's" armor will be more twisted and ridged, while the "light form's" armor will be more smooth and aerodynamic. Some weapons, such as Toa Tools, can be caused to divide as well by skilled users of this mask.This mask will not function properly on beings with purely Inner Light or Inner Shadow, such as the prime universe's Makuta species and Umbra.(Side note: Av-Matoran do have inner Shadow, or they wouldn't be able to become Kra-Matoran when their Light was drained - so your repeated example of Av-Matoran wasn't the best example to use.)

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#229 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Oct 27 2012 - 12:09 AM

Alright, then, let me make this a bit more concise.Mask of Moral SeperationAllows the user to divide their inner Light and Shadow, splitting into two beings. These beings maintain an unbreakable telepathic connection, essentially sharing thoughts and focus freely. As a result of their creation, one being has only moral Light and is aligned with Creation, and one being has only moral Shadow and is aligned with Destruction. In the case of elementally-associated beings, each being maintains some control over their original element, as well as gaining limited Light and Shadow powers. However, these powers tend to be linked - for example, a Toa of Fire's "light side" might create primarily bright flares, while his "dark side" might be more inclined to make less powerful flame and absorb heat from areas. Another odd side effect of this mask on Toa and similar beings is that the two beings draw from a shared resivoir of Elemental Energy.Physically, the two beings each have physical variations from the original, primarily in lighter or darker armor shades. However, in most cases, the "dark form's" armor will be more twisted and ridged, while the "light form's" armor will be more smooth and aerodynamic. Some weapons, such as Toa Tools, can be caused to divide as well by skilled users of this mask.This mask will not function properly on beings with purely Inner Light or Inner Shadow, such as the prime universe's Makuta species and Umbra.(Side note: Av-Matoran do have inner Shadow, or they wouldn't be able to become Kra-Matoran when their Light was drained - so your repeated example of Av-Matoran wasn't the best example to use.)

I'd qualify this as "under normal conditions," but take out the Creation and Destruction part. Dividing, for example, Karda Nui Takanuva in half doesn't guaruntee that Karda Nui Light Takanuva will focus on creating something, or Karda Nui Shadow Takanuva would immediately perfer destroying lives.-Tomdroidser

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#230 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Oct 27 2012 - 06:09 PM

I'd qualify this as "under normal conditions," but take out the Creation and Destruction part. Dividing, for example, Karda Nui Takanuva in half doesn't guaruntee that Karda Nui Light Takanuva will focus on creating something, or Karda Nui Shadow Takanuva would immediately perfer destroying lives.-Tomdroidser

...Wait, did you want them to be morally-aligned or not? Based on my understanding of the MNOG, Teridax, and the Makuta/Shadow Leeches in general, Creation (aka construction) is represented by inner Light, and Destruction (aka demolition) is represented by inner Shadow. That's just how I phrase "good" and "evil" in Bionicle contexts (as in all honesty, it's really subjective, and a villain might not think of themselves as such).And as far as the example goes... I'm thinking of it as different ways to achieve a goal. Like, Light Taka might infiltrate an area (avoiding destruction where possible, which is more creation-aligned), whereas Dark Taka might take the same goal (say, to get some artifact) and just blast the area to shreds (using as much destruction as possible, which is obviously destruction-aligned). That doesn't mean that Light Taka'd be a total pacifist, though, or that Dark Taka would be insane with power and go around killing everything. Having only inner Light or Shadow does not equal stupid.

Edited by Meta-Mind, Oct 27 2012 - 06:13 PM.

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#231 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Oct 27 2012 - 07:04 PM

I'd qualify this as "under normal conditions," but take out the Creation and Destruction part. Dividing, for example, Karda Nui Takanuva in half doesn't guaruntee that Karda Nui Light Takanuva will focus on creating something, or Karda Nui Shadow Takanuva would immediately perfer destroying lives.-Tomdroidser

...Wait, did you want them to be morally-aligned or not? Based on my understanding of the MNOG, Teridax, and the Makuta in general, Creation (aka construction) is represented by inner Light, and Destruction (aka demolition) is represented by inner Shadow. That's just how I phrase "good" and "evil" in Bionicle contexts (as in all honesty, it's really subjective, and a villain might not think of themselves as such).

I think creation and destruction are their own netrual elemental catagory. It's not as important as Light and Shadows.-Tomdroidser

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#232 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 04:40 AM

Tom, I'm reading all the posts about your latest suggestion in-detail now and I have some questions. (I'm writing this as I read, so pardon if any of this is answered later.)First, do you intend this to be a temporary split? Like after a certain amount of time the split reverses, fusing back into the original being?

Will not work on purely aligned natural beings such as Av-Matoran and Makuta unless stated otherwise.

I thought Av-Matoran are not pure moral light; that they have the normal balance of moral light and shadow. Because I was pretty sure Greg said we hadn't met anyone with pure light. *checks BS01* Yeah:

It is possible to do the same with Light, but Light's emotions are much harder to follow than Shadow's, so it has never been done in the Matoran Universe.

What do you think decides what mask powers the split beings get? Random? Manifestations of the good or evil versions of the user's personality? Or always the same specified powers?Meta:

One being will be aligned with Creation and Light, and will have an elemental affliation with Light. The other will be aligned with Destruction and Shadow,

How about the good one always gets a mask power of simplified Creation (whatever that mask I already approved along those lines was), and simplified Destruction (maybe the Jutlin)?Meta:

will have the Elemental Powers of Light and Shadow, and can only access the original being's Elemental Power when working in conjunction.

Tom:

Under ordinary conditions, both beings have the original's elemental power, but each has power over light or shadows.

I can think of a way to make both of these partially true -- say that each one has half the power over light or shadow that a Toa of Light or Shadow would have. And half the power over the user's original element. If in some situation they can agree to work together (such as to fight a mutual enemy), they can work in conjunction (similar to Skakdi) to use the full power of the user's original element. But they cannot work in conjunction to wield light or shadow since they cancel each other out. (They could work together, but each separately and still at half power.)Meta:

On beings with purely Inner Shadow or purely Inner Light, such as the Makuta of the prime Matoran Universe and the Melding Alternate Universe respectively, this mask will be incapable of functioning.

A good clarification, but can be worded much shorter, like "Won't work on beings with pure alignment with moral light or shadow." And we don't really need to give those examples; people can just look up moral light on BS01 if they need them.

Finally, each being's mask becomes a modified version of this mask, sometimes referred to as the Mask of Moral Reunification. This mask allows the beings to re-merge into their original form, as long as they are within about two Bio of each other. It should be noted, however, that any Olmak Effects in the immediate area of a re-fusion can result in a variety of effects, such as one or both beings being copied, transported to separate worlds, or permanently severing the two beings from each other and rendering their Masks of Moral Reunification useless.

I'd be fine with this, maybe trimming its wordiness a bit. Up to tom.Tom:

Any unique personal armor or weapon on the wearer will also split into light and shadow halves unless there are two sets on the wearer at the time of separation.

In the interests of keeping it concise, I don't think we need to say anything about this. Since only two beings are possible as a result of this, I think it's fine to simply say that physically both are identical to the original in all ways including anything small enough to be carried on their person. Also the canon power of Regeneration can apparently create such object-multiplying effects from multiple fragments, so avoiding that isn't necessary.I say this because what exactly a "shadow half" of an object would be is confusing anyways, and would need elaborated. And elaborating on this sort of thing is what it's best to avoid.

The two beings are also immune to being fused to each other.... Since this mask is usually worn over another mask,

I'm not a big fan of either of these ideas. The sorts of masks we want to be approving for the EM-canon list are ones beings would typically wear on their faces (not over another), and could use as often as they want, not one-use things. If we were to define a permanent split it would be much better as a tool power, basically a modified version of the Staff of Fusion.I would suggest having it either be a timed temporary fusion or one of two options for chosen re-fusions (Meta's idea for the two masks of Reunification, or a lingering telepathic trigger) -- and leaving open the possibility that a Mask of Permanence could also be used on either being. Or, it's even possible that there are Stones of Permanence in the EM. That was the original use of that power I invented for the Paracosmos, which inspired the EM mask power. This way your mask has more story potential. (In case you don't know, both Permanence things make effects last unless the Permanence stone/mask is destroyed. Though I think the mask version enabled the user of the Mask of Permanence to switch off the effect at will so they could use it on something else.)Basically I think it would be much more fun and useable if this is a mask someone could wear normally, and at strategic times when they think their different moral manifestations would want to work together for a goal, trigger it then, and then once that goal is complete, re-fuse.

The two Kanohi also have the hidden power to reunify the original under conditions different to each Mask of Moral Separation.

I like that idea. Maybe you could use that with my idea of a mask of creative power and a mask of destructive power?Or... maybe a mask of light and a mask of shadow. :shrugs:If you go that route, or Meta's, I would recommend saying that either of the two masks can trigger the re-fusing. So if one of the two masks is destroyed, they can still fuse. But if both are destroyed, they're stuck permanently as two beings. (Maybe unless they could get a Staff of Fusion...) That would be another way to work permanence into it without forcing that as the only outcome.Meta:

Another odd side effect of this mask on Toa and similar beings is that the two beings draw from a shared resivoir of Elemental Energy.

I don't think that's necessary. Best to keep it simple and not specify this; it can be implied they both have their own by saying that each is physically like a clone or copy.

Physically, the two beings each have physical variations from the original, primarily in lighter or darker armor shades. However, in most cases, the "dark form's" armor will be more twisted and ridged, while the "light form's" armor will be more smooth and aerodynamic.

That does make sense. Again, up to tom. Problem is it adds more text and we're trying to get it shorter. :PI agree with Meta about construction and demolition, but the mask definition doesn't need to specify it. The main reason for it is that Greg said that a being of pure light would not be "purely good", but would be just as unbalanced as a being of shadow. Now we saw it defined clearly with Makuta that beings of shadow that they are capable of making things just fine, but the motivation or goals they go for are destructive. They made Rahi that were more vicious, etc. So it's an association, NOT a total definition; pure moral shadow doesn't mean demolition is all they could do. I would suggest only mentioning it if you go with my idea of using that for the mask powers. Otherwise it can be left to interpretation of moral light and shadow by each fan.Finally, based on some of what occurred to me as I typed the above, I do think Moral Manifestation may be the best name. Because as I showed above, it provides a noun as well as a verb, and that noun can be used to describe the split beings; each is a manifestation. That wouldn't work with Separation or Alignment. Just a thought. And it's literally what the mask is doing; it's manifesting the morals of the being, when that's possible (which is only when there's a balance).BTW, though, what if a being wasn't perfectly half-half, but had mostly shadow? Like I think was happening with Takanuva slowly, wasn't it? Or something... was always a bit fuzzy on that.

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#233 Online Chro

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 12:38 PM

Haven't been around here very much, but the EM seems interesting; I've tried to read up on it, but clearly I'm not familiar with the majority of the story, characters, et cetera.Anyway, I had a possibly interesting idea while browsing the lists of EM Kanohi. How about a mask of, say, placebo (working title, needs a better name). Powers would include making an injured enemy not notice that they were hurt, or similar to the Mask of Intimidation, make the user seem more powerful than they actually are; another use could be "healing" an ally without actually doing anything. Kinda similar to the already-established mask powers of pain resistance or (like I said) intimidation. The effects would wear off immediately once the target realized that it was just a Mask of Placebo. If anyone likes the idea I'll come up with a few possible Bionicle-sounding names. What do you guys think?
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#234 Offline tomdroidser

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 01:32 PM

I can't answer all of them at the same time, but I'll answer this.

Meta:

will have the Elemental Powers of Light and Shadow, and can only access the original being's Elemental Power when working in conjunction.

Tom:

Under ordinary conditions, both beings have the original's elemental power, but each has power over light or shadows.

I can think of a way to make both of these partially true -- say that each one has half the power over light or shadow that a Toa of Light or Shadow would have. And half the power over the user's original element. If in some situation they can agree to work together (such as to fight a mutual enemy), they can work in conjunction (similar to Skakdi) to use the full power of the user's original element. But they cannot work in conjunction to wield light or shadow since they cancel each other out. (They could work together, but each separately and still at half power.)

Why not just compromise and just say the Light/Shadow element is a secondary element like the Inika lightning? If they work together, then it would be logical that their primary element, say Fire, would unite, but the Light/Shadow element would cancel out.... I'm as confused with this mask as with many of you.-Tomdroidser

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#235 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 02:53 PM

Haven't been around here very much, but the EM seems interesting; I've tried to read up on it, but clearly I'm not familiar with the majority of the story, characters, et cetera.

I would strongly suggest beginning with the Cipher Chronicles, then. :) It's designed to be understandable purely from reading it without reading any of this reference stuff we talk about here and the like.http://www.bzpower.com/board/index.php?showtopic=5975&#entry354651

Anyway, I had a possibly interesting idea while browsing the lists of EM Kanohi. How about a mask of, say, placebo (working title, needs a better name). Powers would include making an injured enemy not notice that they were hurt, or similar to the Mask of Intimidation, make the user seem more powerful than they actually are; another use could be "healing" an ally without actually doing anything. Kinda similar to the already-established mask powers of pain resistance or (like I said) intimidation. The effects would wear off immediately once the target realized that it was just a Mask of Placebo. If anyone likes the idea I'll come up with a few possible Bionicle-sounding names. What do you guys think?

Something along those lines should be fine.Incidently, the placebo effect is what's behind one of my theories about real life, that humans are supposed to all be able to aid our own healing by intentional "placebo power" -- that positive attitudes alone are really what produce healing chemicals. The only reason the "placebo effect" ever goes away is because we choose to instead produce negative attitudes. So if someone realizes, in real life, that a healing effect was "just" a placebo effect, this should not (in real life anyways) actually make the healing effect go away. It does because people don't really think the benefit of this effect through, and once they realize the medicine they were trying was fake, they get pessimistic again essentially. The same principle applies in many other ways, including why pessimists just don't live as long in general. So something I always argue for is that we humans should intentionally choose positive attitudes, because we do know that they produce their own healing effect that all these medical studies have proven -- though that was not the intent of the studies, it's a sound conclusion reached from them.So, there's some food for thought related to this. If I was personally going to make a mask of this, I would probably have it be a power that switches on this natural slight healing ability in self or target fully, regardless of their own knowledge or lack of knowledge of how to do it themselves, and maybe causes the glands to overproduce as well to increase the effect, as an always-on effect.It should be noted, though, that the Calix is already similar to this, so we should think about making sure it doesn't overlap. The same cause -- honest confidence that what's being attempted will work -- can enable us or fictional characters to perform physical, acrobatic feats perfectly, while nervousness, paranoia, and pessimism mess up our performances usually. So the Calix is kinda drawing on the placebo effect for those types of feats specifically. Thus I would clarify that this mask cannot do what the Calix can, and is only for the more subtle healing or psychological effects.Also, for name I would suggest something like Optimism, as that is the root of placebo power, although that name itself may seem too silly for it, but it's a start...

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#236 Online Chro

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 03:05 PM

Thanks for the ideas, Bones. Optimism makes sense, although only some of the applications I thought up are positive... I suppose if only positive uses were considered, this would be sort of like a psychological equivalent of the rebuff power. :lol:
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#237 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Nov 08 2012 - 03:48 PM

Bones, sorry if this has been answered, but do you have a copy of the old Mask list? -TLhikan
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#238 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Nov 09 2012 - 08:42 AM

Not sure what you're referring to, T. This?
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#239 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Nov 09 2012 - 11:16 AM

Not sure what you're referring to, T. This?

Yes, that is what I meant http://www.bzpower.c...tyle_emoticons/default/blush.png.-TLhikan

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#240 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Nov 12 2012 - 12:19 PM

Just a quicky, was the Iron Hawk flying fortress made an official thing?
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