Am I Against Free Speech?
Entry posted by bonesiii
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Today the Bones Blog brings you my own history related to complaint topics, and a major aspect of what I do that most complainers do not realize off the bat. This is being posted because of a recent misunderstanding, but I've needed to say it for a long time. It's also proof that I can be a windbag, so apologies.
Okay, anybody who knows me knows that I post in complaint topics a lot. I am usually disagreeing with complainers (when they post illogical points), and they often wish I hadn't done so. I've been called a "debating monster", I've been called distinguished and well-spoken, and I've been called an inhuman robot.
What I do is admittedly often above the level that maybe a lot of people here want to think about, or sometimes even need to think about. I'm very wordy but often misunderstood, and even some of the people I respect most have been rubbed the wrong way by what I do. So why do I do it?
The Misunderstanding
Complainers often assume I am trying to stifle their right to complain. The number one response I get is "this is my opinion, I have a right to it, why are you trying to stop complaints about Bionicle?'
Saying this is not evil -- it's perfectly understandable. But from my point of view, it's kinda funny and ironic, because what they do not realize is, I am actually doing the exact opposite. Before I started doing this, complaint topics were automatically closed for potential or actual flame, and I do claim credit for a huge portion of why today we can almost always keep them flame-free and thus open.
So I'd really appreciate more gratitude from complainers. :-P But it's understandable, because that's not super simple a concept to grasp, and not obvious to someone who's newer to BZPower debates.
So let's review the history.
Importance of Complaints
In 2004, when I was a new staff member, I mostly left complaint/debate topics alone. I don't like fighting -- I just want to get along with people. But I'm also a logician, and I'm also a big fan of Bionicle. That means I have a vested interest in Bionicle doing well.
But what happens if there's a problem, and Bionicle isn't doing so hot? If its designers become out of touch with the majority of fans, and sales decline too far, how can it keep going? LEGO would have to cancel Bionicle and move on to something else. If LEGO itself faces this problem overall, it could go out of business.
Equals bad.
So say there's a problem. How do we fix it?
By complaining.
Constructive criticism, suggestions, whatever word you want to use, the fact is that on-target complaints are vital. We have helped Bionicle in this way before -- we helped show them why clone sets were a problem, and it was because of our complaints about that, combined with sales data that showed that we were right, that made LEGO decide to introduce more variety in teams.
Flame is the Enemy of Free Speech
But at the time, complaint topics had been getting more and more flamey as time went on and the original fans aged so much that they could no longer relate much to the new Bionicle. 2002 to 2003 had huge problems, but since it was still trying to hang onto appealing mostly to the minority preferences we see on here a lot, the main complaints were more of yawns in the form of posts than flame. But in 2004, Bionicle went more towards the majority tastes, and BZP's "nostalgics" (if you will) got upset, sometimes angry.
GregF was in these topics, trying his best to provide a more objective point of view. He deserves even more credit than me for helping out in this way. But what I saw all too often was the idea that "Well, he just works for LEGO, he's making this stuff up" or the like. He was giving complainers important info they didn't have previously, and it helped a lot, but many didn't want to hear it and refused to believe it just because the source worked with LEGO. Things just kept on getting out of hand.
Now, our job as staff is clear. We're here to be a family friendly forum. We cannot tolerate flame. We will not. The admins made that crystal clear from the get-go, long before I ever even knew BZPower existed. I support that call, and obviously most online fans and their parents do too, or we wouldn't be as big as we are. We have to do our best to promote respect and kindness among members, even as they disagree with each other.
So what else could we do? We had no choice but to close these complaint topics when they got out of hand. By late 2004, complaint topics were almost always closed automatically because they'd become about as controversial as religion or politics discussions.
What do you think that does to free speech, guys?
At the time, a big complaint lodged towards us was that we were stifling free speech when it comes to Bionicle complaints. This despite the fact that many of us were on the front lines posting complaints, including admins! I refuse to pretend that somehow what we did back then was stifling free speech.
The ones stifling free speech were the flamers.
Enter Me
But, I felt there was something else we could do. Or at least, that I could do.
For many years now, I've considered myself a logician. What that means to me is I approach debate not as mudslinging, going around in circles, speechifying to defend whatever I happen to have said to protect my own selfish pride and ego -- that was when I was a kid. I was lucky enough to be taught logic growing up, and it fascinated me. I learned more and more about it, and I used it. I started to realize I had been a fool as a kid to argue by my ego.
I became a logician -- which to me means I approach debate as a search among friends for the truth -- the real, actual truth, that is, not anyone's idea of it. I learned a lot about how avoiding logical fallacies and analyzing argument structures could help understand what was really going on in discussion, and better communicate what I wanted to get across. I don't claim any credit for this at all -- as I said, I was lucky. I came to believe logic was the key, as well as an open mind and in-depth, all-inclusive research, to finding the truth.
Posting on here, I realized I had a talent for steering debates away from flame and "defensive debate" and towards respect and "truth-seeking debate." When I did this, flame in topics was reduced dramatically. And since I don't work for LEGO, nobody can use that tactic on me, and I'm able to back Greg up on a lot of things that might otherwise be brushed aside. Dosn't hurt that I can zap your proto if you flame me either. :-P
So I decided to go into as many complaint topics as I could, and "moderate" both as a job and like a debate moderator, to try to avoid flame and thus keep the topics open. The job was too big for just me, so as I went, I tried to encourage as many of our older members to learn some of the things I learned and help me in the same way. Again, Greg's input, beyond even just the storyline, since he has access to facts like sales or focus group results that we don't have, helped a ton. Without that, I doubt the following would have been possible:
Complaint Topics Stayed Open
I still remember the first complaint topic I managed to keep open. Okay, so I don't remember what the subject was, lol, but it was in early 2005 or late 2004, don' remember which (crazy memory), and I did my best to stem the slightest hint of flame. I had been debating in complaint topics for a while now, but they were still getting out of hand. I had discussions with some of the admins about this, especially Ninjo, and everybody agreed trying to keep them calm/open was best. I was talking a lot about the goal of keeping the topics open because at the time, that was the biggest problem.
And in this topic, the topic starter and I were able to have an intelligent discussion, and those that came in with more harsh tones and the like I critiqued and some of them responded intelligently. There was only minimal flame that was also spam, which we could warn or delete. And the topic died of natural causes after a while. I watched it like a hawk after the discussion waned, and I saw the exact time it happened.
I still remember proudly telling Ninjo it had stayed open, and he was quite pleased. So I kept at this. Some more had to be closed, some getting quite out of hand, but things were clearly improving.
By 2006, complaint topic closure was a distant memory.
Debate Guide, etc.
The Dreaded Real Life started really getting in my way around 2006, and I began having trouble keeping up with complaint topics. So I posted things like the BZP Debate Terms Guide (which is still the orange link in my sig, and free for all to read and learn from), or blog entries like Can Opinions be Wrong? or Why I Do What I Do. Though there were and always will be misunderstandings along the way, there's a whole generation of BZPers now who does a great job of helping do the same thing.
Let's also not forget that I'm the guy who hosts the Complaint Topic Archive (though it still needs work and you can help! Go there!). So to suggest I'm somehow against them, given that if nothing else, is as absurd as saying Elvis was against rock music.
Also, I've posted plenty of my own complaints, often right in the very posts that people respond to when they accuse me of being against complaints! I've posted both things that personally I find displeasing, and things that as someone concerned for Bionicle's health I think are real problems too.
But It Can't Stop at Just Staying Open
Okay, so cool, I've backed up the right to complain, usually despite the lack of gratitude. But why did I do it in the first place?
Because I think on-target complaints can help improve Bionicle.
So naturally, that means to be consistent, I also have to be trying to get you guys to think about this:
The question is not whether you have the right to your opinion (you do), but whether it makes sense. The question is not whether you can have your opinion, but whether you should.
What we need to focus on is asking ourselves this about every complaint:
Is this actually harming the health of Bionicle? If no, then I shouldn't get all worked up over it. If yes, then we need to try to show LEGO how to solve it.
You find that out by the three things I mentioned -- I call them the Three Pillars of Truth:
1) Logic -- not fallacies, not flame, not mudslinging.
2) Open Mind -- not falling back on what you find easier to believe, not sticking to it due to pride/ego, etc.
3) Research -- not "assumptions" -- facts, hints, evidence, and not disregarding or ignoring any evidence or such.
I am doing my best to provide #1. Greg, news articles about sales, and many other things are sources of #3. But only you can provide #2 for yourself. That's the one thing I can't control about debates. Do you have an open mind? Would you admit it if you were wrong?
And of course, let's not forget that individual taste, majority taste, emotions, and business decisions are all mixed up into this, as I explain in this blog entry: Can Opinions Be Wrong? I don't wanna rehash all that -- if you haven't read it, please do -- but the basic idea is we each have different preferences for entertainment, and individually these "tastes" are outside logic.
We should not be arguing against each others' individual tastes, or saying our own are superior, etc -- we need to focus on figuring out what the majority wants, and maybe on reasonable ways to give the minority some treats too -- in other words, on what will actually help the financial health of Bionicle. (Yes, financial. :-P)
That's the biggest area where things get confusing, though. People sometimes think when I say "opinion" I mean "taste" and thus I'm attacking them, lol. Which is the opposite of what I'm doing. ("Opinion" can actually mean both, so that's why it's confusing. Which is why I hate that word. :-P Communication needs to be clear -- that's the whole point of it. But that's why defining words is also very important for everybody to do.)
My Bad
Now, all that said, I am not Spock, I am not an angel, I am a human being like the rest of us. I do have a temper (it's in there somewhere), I do make mistakes, I do make dumb decisions, I can be just as unhelpful as helpful. One of the curses of being a logician is that I see so much that others cannot see, so easily, it gets incredibly frustrating when they don't see it and need me to repeat it over and over and over again. So I come across as condescending sometimes -- and this is wrong as just as foolish as when I was that little kid because the other people aren't telepathic. Who am I to demand they know everything I know?
Why I Continue
Believe me, with life how it is more me now, it's really tempting to just quit. Assume, hey, I've fixed the closure problem, nobody remembers that now, I'd rather be writing, drawing, coding RPGs, and being known only for being a friendly albeit-oddly-spooky face on the forums who gives people free stuff. Do any of you think I wouldn't love that?
Before I staked my reputation on this, that's who I was seen as, and I almost never got any flak. (Not personally, anyways, just as a generic member of the eeeeevil staff, lol.) I remember well the days when the universal response I got from my argumentative posts, which were limited just to storyline discussion for fun, was "Wow, bones is always right!" Now it's usually "Bones, why can't you leave us alone?" You think I like that? I think you're getting me mixed up with guys like whoever was behind the MiB stuff. :-P
But I still love Bionicle, and I still love BZPower, and I still know what complainers might not know -- that I can and do have a positive influence on both. I want Bionicle to continue, and I want BZPower to continue to be a friendly, respected fansite.
Forums Gone Bad
(Now none of this is going to be related to other Bionicle forums, to make that clear off the bat. Most of those are also well moderated, albeit much smaller than us. :-P And please remember mentioning other forums or linking is against our rules, so nothing like that in comments, please.)
I've witnessed with my own eyes, -- and jumped right into the thick of it posting and having conversations -- what happens when there is nobody like me on a fan forum that has gotten "very old". Remember what I said about how flame warfare getting worse simply as a natural side effect of Bionicle getting older?
Well, that's not a uniquely Bionicle phenomenon. Actually, the truth is we are far, far better off than a lot of other forums out there. The vast majority of other franchise fan forums are in a constant state of open war -- not just "flame war" like tempers flaring in a topic as we think of it, but like the whole forum in chaos with organized "sides" making a life for themselves out of insulting the other side as cleverly as they can imagine, just for being different, 12 hours a day, seven days a week (okay, that number is fictional, but you get the idea).
I've seen this get so bad, it has helped rip apart the franchise itself. Any major fan of scifi will know to what I'm referring to.
In that case, I joined the forum in question, and I tried to discuss about what the problem was -- before the franchise collapsed, mind you -- and it quite simply failed utterly because both sides were so entrenched it was clear it was too late. Note that "franchise" is the word I'm using for lack of a better word without giving away what forum this is. I faced professional insulters, mudslingers, those to whom complaining was an attention-drawing art, and all manner of things many BZPers who have never gone on these other forums haven't even imagined. I had to give up on that one to preserve my time to have a life, my sanity, and eventually the fact that the franchise was finished and nothing else would help anyways.
Mainly it happened because the franchise got old enough to have "nostalgic" fans who, without anybody objective to guide discussion, convinced themselves more and more for years that they were superior to the extreme to everybody else (which I'm not just guessing -- they proudly declared it). And let's note that the franchise managers' lack of input and involvement with fans made figuring out the truth about what the problem was rather difficult, and I'm not pretending I totally understand it or don't place blame on them too.
That was on a forum where there was virtually no moderation and no franchise employee input, BTW, so it's worth mentioning that those were big factors too.
But those alone are not enough. There's another "franchise" (again, the word is just the best match I can give without basically giving you guys links to non-kid-friendly forums), this time in the fantasy realm, that has a well-moderated forum, and the person at the top of this "franchise" has been very open about what goes into making what the forum is centered on. Note that it's nowhere near as involved as Greg is, so it's still not ideal, I'll grant you.
But the point is, that the staff of this forum do a great job of stopping flame. Complaint topics, like on BZP 2004, are almost always closed, though not always. So you'd think the problem had been solved.
Think again. Complainers got more and more vehement, and more and more angry when their complaints just kept getting closed. You saw all of the things as in the first example, all the bad choices made by individuals, all the addiction to negativity. And again, with nobody to act as an objective voice between sides on this, the complainers formed a "side" against the "fanboys". And they formed their own website with its own forum to provide a place for those voices, in the name of "free speech."
When I came across this website, I was frankly shocked at the nonsensical arguments they had showcased in in-depth guides to why, literally, the producer of this entertainment "franchise" was stupid, inferior, even downright evil. It was an admin-supported, admin created sometimes, comprehensive museum of flame. Some legitimate complaints were featured, but they were buried inside ridiculous ones. Incredibly transparent tactics were used to twist the facts to make it sound as if an actual crime had been committed by the producer -- I'm not exaggerating -- worthy of court action. If there was a truth in speech law, the producer in question would easily be able to sue them for harrassment.
To make matters worse, the forum side of this featured a highly elitist system of rules that defended the right to flame above almost all (second only to the rule that if you have even the slightest typo, you can be punished -- again, I'm not exaggerating). To their credit, their rules allowed for "free speech" where those who disagreed could come in and post their arguments too. But the vast majority of posts were simply making a game out of flaming the producer in new and innovative ways.
It really does sound like the Brotherhood of Makuta or something, seeing it written like this, I know. :-P But it is what it is.
Anyways, so I decided to give it a shot at helping in this case. I analyzed their major sections in the "museum" as I called it, and in a few seperate topics I provided the objective view of it. I made it clear I expected disagreement and encouraged debate, but I was hoping it could remain intelligent and flame-free since I agreed with their goal of free speech.
To make a long story short, I got through to a couple people and I did do some good, and I'm glad I did it. And there was some intelligent discussion. Almost all of it, though, was just bringing in the flame game to my topics, flaming me, accusing me of being a troll, putting my name through the old flame animation generators, etc, or just using defensive, mudslinging, sarcastic, trolling, and other harmful tactics. By the time it was clear I had "won" the debates and most of the entrenched were making themselves look foolish, the forum administrators suddenly decided to take their entire forum offline, replace it with a new one that tried to seem more objective, and conveniently erase past member accounts and the vast majority of past topics, including, surprise, mine. I didn't bother to re-join.
Obviously, "free speech" was just a slogan. There really wasn't much of it.
There's one other example, this one in the TV Mystery genre (okay, even that is saying possibly too much :-P), that in my observation has a reasonable amount of moderation, and has a lot of logical people in it trying to keep things civil. It's still full of flame, but it hasn't gotten anywhere near as bad as the previous two examples. I never bothered joining this one, as things seemed under enough control as is, and this was around the time when ole' Dreaded Real Life attacked me, heh.
So why do I keep doing this?
Because I am for free speech.
LOLZ!
Whoa, that went long.
All that is a rewording of what I said a couple hours ago in reply in a topic. :-P
You have the right to free (respectful) speech here, and I'm its biggest defender. So don't preach to me about having the right to express complaints. I'm the guy who's done the most to ensure you can keep that right on here. I'm the guy the hosts a complaint topic archive, lol.
The question, as I said, isn't whether you have the right to your opinion (you do), but whether that opinion makes sense.
So can we stop beating the free speech horse yet? :-P It's dead and fossilized.
[...]
Also, let's not forget the results of me doing what I've been doing. Complaint topics used to get automatically closed because nobody could prevent the flame wars that they always caused. I said that's not good enough, so I went and did something about it -- I decided I would go in them, and provide that objective logician's voice that would try my best to keep them flame-free and thus open. I succeeded, and yes, I do claim credit for that.
So hopefully you can understand why to me it's laughable to have complainers, who have flamed no less, coming to me and preaching about free speech and criticizing me for doing this. When in fact flame is what hurts free speech and this helps it. I'm not revoking anything I said about how I can still improve, but I'm not going to accept any mischaracterizations about what I'm doing either.
I wonder if the fact that beating a fossilized horse shatters it fits with the fact that flame shatters free speech? Maybe, but I'm too tired to think about it right now.
Coming Soon!
So as I thought I was going to say sooner, you can all look forward to (or dread, depending :-P) a series of several blog entries coming soon that expand on some more important aspects of Bionicle, complaints, the history of all this, life, the universe, and everything. But don't worry, there won't be 42 of them....
Also, progress on the RPG is continuing now, and you can expect yet another Survurlode interview coming soon (but I'm not sure who I'll interview yet). Oh, and I know, I know, I have been neglecting Bo Ring. Workin on it, workin on it.
So don't worry, the Bones Blog isn't going to be pure logician/serious anymore than it ever has been. :-P
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