Good article Bonesiii. I pretty much agree with you on everything you said but I must disagree about the kids liking simpler faster builds. Look at how complex the sets were in 2001? Compare that to a 72 piece Tahu Mistika... Now each torso is made up of twothree main pieces compared to the one-two main piece torsos of 2001-2004ish and each limb is made up of several pieces instead of one, etc... What I'm trying to say is that the current sets are generally more complex than they were in previous years.You guys can quote me on this entire post.

~SB~

That's a good point, Shadow Bolt. What I was responding to was more to the points that fans of the 2001 Rahi, the 2002 Bahrag, and some similar 2003 large sets tend to bring up. Also, it's to gears, which newer fans usually see as needlessly complicating the build. Fans of the Rahi or of gears often make the mistake of thinking most fans must be less intelligent for that.

Still, you're right about what you said.

Pretty good analogy there Bones. I've only got one question, and it's probably something off-topic or whatnot, but....might as well ask it anyway.

But why do the hip/pelvic pieces still have the gear teeth on them? I say it looks extremly odd, and there's absolutely no way to use the gear strip either in set or MOC.

Wow Bones! I am very impressed with your writing abilities. I myself am a better writer (though not the best! There is indeed room to improve! ), and I would really like to do more writing for fun. (my father is a writer, so I guess that I get it from him ). All I have to say is that I agree with pretty much all that you said, and I am glad that there are people like you around here that take the time to write such informative articles of cumulative data. Keep it up!

~GBG~

P.S. Have you actually written any books? If so, feel free to PM me about it (I doubt that I shall check back here to see if you responded)

Pretty good analogy there Bones. I've only got one question, and it's probably something off-topic or whatnot, but....might as well ask it anyway.

 

But why do the hip/pelvic pieces still have the gear teeth on them? I say it looks extremly odd, and there's absolutely no way to use the gear strip either in set or MOC.

I dunno. I never did figure out why those were there from the start. Maybe just to add texture...

Wow Bones! I am very impressed with your writing abilities. I myself am a better writer (though not the best! There is indeed room to improve! ), and I would really like to do more writing for fun. (my father is a writer, so I guess that I get it from him ). All I have to say is that I agree with pretty much all that you said, and I am glad that there are people like you around here that take the time to write such informative articles of cumulative data. Keep it up!

 

~GBG~

 

P.S. Have you actually written any books? If so, feel free to PM me about it (I doubt that I shall check back here to see if you responded)

Heh, people keep telling me I should. No, but I am an aspiring fiction writer, and hope to get published someday.

Maybe you could do a list of what we know they don't like. Unless it's just gears and over-complex builds.

Pretty good analogy there Bones. I've only got one question, and it's probably something off-topic or whatnot, but....might as well ask it anyway.

 

But why do the hip/pelvic pieces still have the gear teeth on them? I say it looks extremly odd, and there's absolutely no way to use the gear strip either in set or MOC.

I dunno. I never did figure out why those were there from the start. Maybe just to add texture...

Found it. They fit somewhat onto where the Rakshi's shoulder log (and I do mean log, that thing IS a log ) does, and acts as a ball-joint connector to the arms, instead of a socket connector. It can't move very far side-to-side, but it's a start at a futuristic looking Rakshi.

Now I'd like to present some really long intelligent paragraph describing how you have good points and then argue about some other things...

But I'll just say I agree with you on everything

One thing I still think they should do is include a small comic in every canister, so the buyer has a higher chance of getting into the storyline. Then they'll be likely to buy more sets, etc...

Maybe this is actually why there's going to be a new story next year. Greg said it was because they "couldn't have the 'awakening Mata Nui arc' forever" but there's also something else. At this point, it would be pretty difficult for a new fan to jump into the storyline, since it's so complex at this point. A new start would allow more fans to get into it.

Wait! I just thought of something:

Eye catching colors -- translation, brown sold poorly. Kids want red, blue, green, orange, yellow, etc. Now, I've supported boosting ice and earth sales still more by using something like iceblue and purple. Greg has said that white and black do sell pretty well, though, so it's not a big problem. Personally I think it would be more consistent, though, even if the boost in sales was minimal. Every little bit helps, doesn't it?

Something you may not be considering is that some people prefer those more dull colors. Brown generally isn't liked at all, so no surprise there, but I know some people who would much rather have a black or white one instead of a shocking and vibrant yellow or blue.

...and I did just say a lot of stuff. How contradicting.

Actually, people do like black and white.

Oh, and some may like them, but that doesn't mean that the majority does...

Hasn't Greg said that the Ice Toa usually sell the second most, right behind the Fire Toa?

Has this trend changed in the past few years? I know that when I buy a toa, the white one is always first...

This article sums up the main points nicely.

One disagreement: I don't think the 2010/2011 movies will sell poorly. As you pointed out LEGO has learned from its mistakes, so they should know how to please the target group by now. The problem with the previous movies could also have resulted from the lack of connection between the movies. I suppose it was really hard for younger fans to understand in which order the movies take place and what scenes take place in present and which in the past. In comparison, the 2006-2008 story is strictly linear (except BL4) and well organised. Supposedly the story will be continued to be told like this. Consequently, the movies will be recognisable as a real trilogy, which invites you to watch the sequel once you've seen the first movie.

One thing I still think they should do is include a small comic in every canister, so the buyer has a higher chance of getting into the storyline. Then they'll be likely to buy more sets, etc...

That's not a bad idea. Not sure why that was discontinued.

At this point, it would be pretty difficult for a new fan to jump into the storyline, since it's so complex at this point. A new start would allow more fans to get into it.

That's part of it. Although, 2006 was designed for new fans, but then this is 2008. I think a new story could have been done without this, but it's a good idea. I think there's probably several good reasons for it, one being, sometimes it's good to just bring "closure" of a sort to a story series. This is a nice compromise -- it brings closure (well, so we think, anyways ) to Bionicle as we know it, but isn't going to end it.

Something you may not be considering is that some people prefer those more dull colors.

Oh, no, I'm definately considering it -- brown is actually one of my favorite colors. So I'm in the minority there. And BZP actually seems to have a lot more brown fans than you'd think -- it actually polls as a majority here. That's one thing where we are actually the reverse of the main fanbase. (Selfishly, it's good for me since it means I can use brown a lot for fanfic characters/Rahi. )

Brown generally isn't liked at all, so no surprise there, but I know some people who would much rather have a black or white one instead of a shocking and vibrant yellow or blue.

I know -- but the point is, I think more people would probably like purple or iceblue, since those would be more eye-catching.

Darth Vader:

Hasn't Greg said that the Ice Toa usually sell the second most, right behind the Fire Toa?

 

Has this trend changed in the past few years? I know that when I buy a toa, the white one is always first...

I've never heard anything like that -- I heard him say blue and green are always close to red, while white and black are somewhat behind them, but not horribly so. Now, he did correct a previous myth that white sold nearly as bad as brown. Also, someone has claimed that blue has actually passed red now, but I'm not sure if that's actually true or just a rumor. Even if it's not, Greg has said that blue and green are close to red.

So I'd word it this way, I guess: "Red, blue, and green seem to roughly tie for first, with red being the traditional bestseller, and white and black tie roughly for second." So in that sense, white could be seen as second.

(BTW, I'm also not sure how much success yellow/orange have had; Greg didn't know when I asked him, but he has said they're selling way better than brown did. )

Now, if you have a quote that this used to be different, that would be interesting. One thing to note here is that Matoro Mahri specifically did sell pretty well; they actually manufactured more of him than some of the other colors. Seemingly, he didn't sell quite as well as they expected, and this created the myth that he sold poorly, but he did sell well overall. So the usual order might not have been the same in 2007 -- perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

TOA BIONUI:

One disagreement: I don't think the 2010/2011 movies will sell poorly. As you pointed out LEGO has learned from its mistakes, so they should know how to please the target group by now.

I hope so, but the prevailing wisdom about the 2004/2005 movies was that, even though they improved in terms of movie quality, people just started taking them for granted and not bothering to actually buy them right away, unlike MOL. I'm not really sure how you get past that hurdle without just giving the movies a break between each one of at least a year.

The problem with the previous movies could also have resulted from the lack of connection between the movies. I suppose it was really hard for younger fans to understand in which order the movies take place and what scenes take place in present and which in the past.

That may be too, but the thing is, if they didn't buy the movies, they wouldn't know enough to even be confused by that, I would think.

In comparison, the 2006-2008 story is strictly linear (except BL4) and well organised. Supposedly the story will be continued to be told like this. Consequently, the movies will be recognisable as a real trilogy, which invites you to watch the sequel once you've seen the first movie.

I do agree that that's a definate benefit. I'd like to think that you're right on this -- it would give any later movies a much better chance. I still tend to doubt it though.

Edit: Oh, missed this from TtW:

Maybe you could do a list of what we know they don't like. Unless it's just gears and over-complex builds.

For the most part it's "anything that's not this." But there's a lot of room for variety too, and there's a variety of things they mildly don't like, but I think the main things would just be the opposite of what's here. I think I'd rather leave it at this article.

If bright colors "jump off the shelves", why the darker blue and red tones since 2004?

If bright colors "jump off the shelves", why the darker blue and red tones since 2004?

It's still red and blue. I haven't heard of any pickiness between the exact shades being known of among most fans.

Personally, I like the slightly deeper tones better, as it's less "cheesy" if you will, feels "richer." But that is of course me. I would hope, selfishly, that a lot of other fans like a balance between eye-catching and "rich" tones of the color, but that's just a theory/hope. It's a good question, but the only people I've really seen noticing the difference much are older fans. I've never seen a newer fan say "I want a brighter red."

Also, brighter blues and reds have been brought back in some sets more recently (Gadunka, for example, or apparently Onua Mistika (oddly enough )).

"Fans of clonism tend to be MOCers", Okay, you get lots of pieces in different colours, but the varity ads intrest (IMHO) and wouldn't you become a better MOCist if you had new pieces to work with, not just the same old, same old?

I didn't say MOCers tend to be fans of clonism. MOCers are a diverse group, and there really are so few fans of clonism, I'm sure they're not the majority of MOCers either.

On the note of colors, why hasn't bright green returned since 03? We've seen bits of red and blue reappear, and even lime green, but no original bright Mata green. Was it really selling that bad?

All in all, a very interesting read.

On the note of colors, why hasn't bright green returned since 03? We've seen bits of red and blue reappear, and even lime green, but no original bright Mata green. Was it really selling that bad?

I highly doubt that is sales related. Probably just they haven't bothered.

If bright colors "jump off the shelves", why the darker blue and red tones since 2004?

It's still red and blue. I haven't heard of any pickiness between the exact shades being known of among most fans.

All of it makes complete sense (as usual), Bonesiii. Most people don't realize that this is what the target audience really WANTS, being simpler builds, projectiles, cooler (Sorry, Mata hues) colors, and no-clonist characters. I think that you put all this hard, immobile, and generally unliked information into something we can all swallow.

You didn't bring this up but oil/plastic prices affect everything too. One mistake I think Lego is making is making the sets bigger and bigger. The small sets are now the size of the Toa Mata. This is driving prices up and up. Also making the small set boxes part plastic must be expensive too. Oh and I dont really think the 1/2 villain 1/2 hero thing is that much of a good thing for sales. As I see it the roleplayer will buy villains and heroes and not come back for the summer because they already have both.

Great article, Bonesiii. I kinda skimmed over parts of it, but I got the general gist, that's for sure. I think that a lot of people don't understand that TLC is a for-profit orginization, as are most companies. If you want to make a profit, you've got to go with the times - even if it may upset older, more minor fans.

However, there are some things that I'm still worried about. As you said, the kids generally want noble heroes. Sadly, the Mistika seem to be going away from that mindset - Gali and Onua really look pretty fearsome, with their spiky armor and evil looking masks. Tahu fairs better, though, as he still looks like a hero. This is disapointing, considering that the winter toa this year were almost spot on. :\

More disapointing, however, is the switch to the new socket molds. Now, I've seen a lot of complaints about these new sockets breaking quickly - and it isn't just a color exclusive problem. If TLC wants to keep customer satisfaction up, they need to make sure that the molds they use are structurally solid and resist a lot of taking apart and rebuilding, and a lot of vigorous playing. Otherwise, what's the point of buying a Bionicle in the first place?

I sure hope that TLC can rectify these problems - we want TLC AND Bionicle to keep going, after all.

~~END~~

Well put together article, and though I want to, I can't make anything sounding like a rebuttal without sounding stupid or like I'm flaming you simultaneously.

Yeah, Lego is a company, and needs to focus on the target audience (9-11 year olds, not 16+), and if they want non-clones, they get non-clones (this benefits me as a MoCist as well, more parts=more ideas= more MOCs). Rubber-plastic parts (pretty cool looking and feeling, actually), let 'em have 'em!

And I can agree without any sort of number data that heroes outsell villans, because everyone wants to be the good guy.

I'm one of the older fans, a fan of the collectibles, gears and whatnot. But remember, we don't control what Lego does, and have to adjust to the newer fans desires

Storywise, that's where imagination can really run and be free. You get to develop an 'official' personality, a story, world for the characters to inhabit, which consists of action/adventure elements, and so forth. And I also agree that set fans won't know, or care about, the difference in story (though they will know if the story takes place in land one time then sea the next).

That was great and true, except for the good guys always win part, because everyone I know thinks that good guys winning all the time is just boring.

That was great and true, except for the good guys always win part, because everyone I know thinks that good guys winning all the time is just boring.

Actually, I said:

Good guys win (overall)

Meaning they don't always win. More like most times. If that helps. Most fans actually do want them to lose sometimes, because that helps give a feeling of suspense -- you're never sure they'll win.