<yourright.standard>

Now that that's out of the way...

Ever consider why people don't post? I'm sorry if I seems offending or challenging or whatnot, but when I agree with an argument, I take up a stance from teyh other side of the aisle to look at it objectively and make it better.

As one of those people, I think that people don't post because they don't look much. Those that they do look at, I'd attribute the lack of postage to three things: Laziness, apathy, and rejection.

Laziness--"I don't have the time."

People go to the art forum to look at things, not to offer an objective critical review like an auction-goer would appraise the Venus de Milo or whatever. They look at it like a tourist looks at a museum. You don't leave notes at the foot of each exhibit appriasing it, do you?

Or are you that person that I have to clean up after each night?

Apathy--"Well, that's nice."

This is what normally keeps people from posting in a veteran artist's topic. They know the artist is good, and they think that the artist knows that the artist is good, and they feel that they don't need to keep telling them that; it's redundant. It's like if you had someone following you around all day, and every time you put pencil to paper you'd have someone going "OMGTAHTISTEHMOSTAWESOMESTTHINGIVEVERSEEN!!!!!!!1"

I don't think you'd like that.

Rejection--"This artist hates me. I won't review his stuff."

This is less common these days, but in the event that an artist thinks that he is a brillint genius who will become the next Raphael, and then someone gives an honest apprisal of their work, they will recoil and retailiate. These are the people who accuse others of "flaming" and "trolling" and "bullying". The reviewer, who may or may not have seen promise in the artist, will get angry and, either in avoidance of the insulter, or passive agression, simply refuse to post in his topics.

I watched you start drawing, and you were fortunate to arrive in a time when people cared more. Not only did they care more, but you showed promise and were humble. You were good enough that you avoided Apathy and you were humble enough to not Reject people. So, people reviewed you and you grew. Now you've fallen into Apathy, since people know you're a good artist and they just don't care anymore.

Next I'd like to examine what does make people post. This is what you must exploit in order to make more people review your work.

Promise--"This newbie is quite good."

This is only appliciable to new artists. Before you go public, refine your work until you can improve no more without outside influence. Very likely, this will be very high. When you then post a piece, people will see it, and they will see promise in you. They will post and give you tips. But do not fall into the trap of Rejection--that one is a fault of the arist, not the reviewer. You must be humble and accept the fact that they like your work. Then you must improve.

Criticism--"I think that you could improve here, here and here. 5/10"

I would encourage a standard form for reviews. While it is not mandatory, it would engage the critical thinking skills, and you would, as LK seems to desire, recieve more tips for improvement. I have seen the power such a form can have, and it is quite effective. While some hate ratings, tough. It's not that hard to ignore it.

Fans--"You're amazing!"

Eh...What can I say about fans? If one assembles a fandom, you're guaranteed a lot of posts. See Dark 709's comics, or see if Jaligenius' artworks survived the forum purge. Heck, look at BZPower--it's all a bunch of fans of Bionicle.

When you reach a certain quality level, people start to latch onto you. When you see "inspired by <yourname>" or obvious ripoffs of your stuff, you know you have fans. They're the people who race for the first reply in your topic. Then they'll tell their friends about your work...and they'll tell their friends...and your fandom expands. It's like a virus.

It is quite hard to exploit these three things, so I suggest trying to avoid the negative rather than lean on the positives. But the bottom line is this: SKILL IN ART WILL GARNER REVIEWS AND REPLIES. Do that, and you have a chance at surviving.

To be updated if anything else comes to my mind.

But the bottom line is this: SKILL IN ART WILL GARNER REVIEWS AND REPLIES. Do that, and you have a chance at surviving.

I disagree. For some reason, people like to post in those 5-minute MSPaint doodle topics. I don't know why, but they do. Skill doesn't guarantee anything, unless you are well known, and sometimes that doesn't guarantee anything either. I admit that if I see a name I recognize, I am more likely to check out the topic, but I also like to go to topics with less posts and see if I can be of help.

But yaypoints for bumping this up! You should put a link to your "Ten things not to do in a review" post tho...just the other day I saw this...

reather cool, but i'm not liking the mask, oh yeah and she needs a thousand and forty three point 9 battle damage marks

*cringes and does not name names*

...and this reminds me that I need to poast art.Dx Like seriously.

-Raia-

Well, I know I'm not much of a reviewer at all, but I do comment on nearly everything in the GA forum, usually with a compliment and a small piece of advice. Is that good, d'you think?

 

-Nuju Metru

Like VF said, size usually is secondary. As long as you are helpful and friendly, you’re fine.

Sure I get discouraged to draw Bionicle stuff on BZP, but the Iron Man soundtrack is just too good. xB

 

Anyhow, I guess it's pretty difficult to me to comment on other people's art without being really blunt about the flaws. ._.

 

I wouldn't say being blunt is necessarily a bad thing, just so long as you aren't to harsh about it. And are also sure to point out things you like about it as well.

I actually like blunt comments. They sorta imply “We all know it’s a cool drawing, so let’s get to the point of things you can get better at.”

Ever consider why people don't post? I'm sorry if I seems offending or challenging or whatnot, but when I agree with an argument, I take up a stance from teyh other side of the aisle to look at it objectively and make it better.

I have been around and noticed quite clearly why people don’t post, and have viewed their side too. Of course some of your points were very interesting in a fashion that I didn’t think about; it’s always good to discuss both sides of the issue.

And then of course, even if the problem is almost incurable, it won’t stop me from pointing these issues out. I’m not going to make a huge deal out of this, but when I see people are having problems with this I want to help out.

But the bottom line is this: SKILL IN ART WILL GARNER REVIEWS AND REPLIES. Do that, and you have a chance at surviving.

 

I disagree. For some reason, people like to post in those 5-minute MSPaint doodle topics. I don't know why, but they do. Skill doesn't guarantee anything, unless you are well known, and sometimes that doesn't guarantee anything either. I admit that if I see a name I recognize, I am more likely to check out the topic, but I also like to go to topics with less posts and see if I can be of help.

Raia’s point is really strong in this, and it’s true. Skill can be an important thing, but it won’t promise anything. I’ve seen some amazing new artist pop in, but get little attention. While a silly doodle that degrades art gets the hot topic. From what I see, if you want the posts you have to draw stuff twelve years olds will like (not to be rude). That, and GA is really, really random. You can never tell who’ll get the most posts.

I would like to sincerely thank you for posting this. As has been said before by others, this is almost exactly what I think put into, shall I say, "comprehensible" words.

I don't review all the time, I usually only review on a piece that I can say something about. That's not often, unfortunately. A lot of times things just don't strike me as able to be reviewed, simply because I can't think of anything constructive to ay about them. I'm alright at art, but I'm lousy at many things, like proportions, and I don't want to mess people up, as well.

I also want to thank you for posting this in the hope I'll get more reviews. I try my best to put effort into my art, but I've never had a hot topic except for an MoC I made nearly a year ago- and most of the posts were by myself. I'm a bit more motivated to review now.

Thank you again, I hope this helps a lot of people out.

It seems more people squander time with the people who really don’t try with art and then the people who truly strive don’t get much attention at all.

I may sound like I'm exaggerating the issue...but still, bear with me.

No, no... you're unfortunately not stretching ANYTHING. XD

That's not always the case, trust me on this one. While popular members do have an advantage sometimes, I've seen plenty of popular members get ignored. All the time, and then some newbie can easily get more posts. This can be a good and bad thing. Or at least, when it comes to writing or art I see this. I'm not so sure when it comes to MoCs.

Anyway, we have to be reminded why certain people are popular in the first place. They have really talented stuff, that's why they got attention. But it is true. A lot of people are so focused on only giving attention to the oldies, that they have no room to accept new talent in.

Simply put, what if you worked really hard on something, posted, and then no one commented? It hurts, doesn’t it?

Yes it does. It's happened to me.

To help combat this problem, I am a member of the ECC and the BBC CC. Those groups are trying their best to do what they can about this problem.

In short, I agree wholeheartedly.

-Z-

I think one important factor at the root of this perceived problem could be simply the structure and inherent nature of the message board format.

You've got the way topics are displayed, by last post. That alone skews the forum in favour of topics that have the most recent posting activity, whether that's due to the artwork being so amazing, the topic starter being a wiz at attracting posts, or just some stupid drama going on.

Then there's the no-revival rule. After twenty days with no new posts, the topic is considered dead and must not be revived. (If this rule is different in the Art forums, please correct me.)

Finally, there's the fact that a topic is restricted to being a discussion thread about a particular creative work which exists (usually) independently of the topic. This as opposed to sites like DA or Flickr, where the discussion thread is appended to the actual home of the work itself. Those kind of sites make it much easier to find a particular artist's work, or all works on a particular subject. And when you find the work, voilà, there's the feedback thread right beneath it. Not to mention the crucial role of preview thumbnails before you even click on an individual work. On BZPower, you have to browse blind.

I'm not saying blame the format, I'm just noting that it's possible that the format plays a role here.

I recall this entry.....I still feel the point it gives can not be pressed enough.

I wish people understood that they have to let the person know that they view/like/dislike usually if they want you to continue.....

-Jordboy1

Judging by the dates on the comments, I'm assuming this isn't the first time you've bumped this.

I wholeheartedly agree that there is a definite lack of regard for useful reviews in not just the art forums, but across all of BZP. Maybe not so severely in the library, but I have noticed that Bionicle Comics and Comedies really suffer from a lack of useful reviews. The comments people leave about the stories tend to be as nonsensical as some of the stories themselves, and the real talent gets buried under all the rather spammy works, which discourages creativity in any form within either of those forums. I think that people don't understand that there is a difference between a review/comment and a post. At least, in my opinion, a review tells the creator of a work why the viewer likes/dislikes it, and the really good ones offer an opinion on how the creator of the work can improve it and advice for future works. A post is generally just a small comment on the subject matter. Simple posts don't necessarily serve to encourage creativity in any forum.

The other forums in the library suffer from the opposite problem, I think. People are intimidated not only by the way other people construct reviews, but also with the rules of the forum. People don't leave as many reviews because they're afraid of either leaving a poor review or violating the rules. Comedies and comics don't have this problem because so many people use the threads for chatting about the story rather than for actual reviews that people think that's okay before checking the rules; it's the mainstream behavior there. If more people wouldn't get discouraged and just write up at least a little more than a paragraph worth of honest comments/critique, I think the library forums would be a little busier, and people would be more likely to write reviews if they saw more people doing it. I'd say more, but then I'd probably just be repeating you.

In short, I think people gravitate to the simpler works probably because they think those are easier to review.

Bravo, LK.

If I had a blog approval stamp, I would give you one right now, but alas, I don't.

Great entry nonetheless, however. I myself try to be as constructive as possible when it comes to reviewing epics or short stories (don't really read comedies as much, because I'm not too interested in them anymore).

-TNTOS-

Not sure if I've already given you this, but even if so, reading this again you deserve it a second time(In the updated form too);

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Necrotoa/misc-BZP/necroproval3.png

I think I may agree with what you're saying here, but as usual, I look at an issue from all points of view, including (sadly enough) the view of nasty people.

Yes, we all must strive to be more considerate on the 'net and especially, BZP. That's one of the thing that gives the internet a bad name in the first place; people not caring who they hurt. I definatly try to be respectful of the BZCommunity on the whole, and (I don't think) I've never purposefully insulted anyone on here. We all should try to give everyone equal merit, and definately take the time to think about what we're typing before clicking that "Add post" button.

On the opposite spectrum, what you have to remember is that there are people out there (usually really bored people) who get on the internet for the sole purpose of hurting as many as they can. Then, you've got those "Newest Generation" (as I like to call them) kids, those mere novices who think they're all that and a bag of potato crisps, who simply think that because they are who they are, or have what they have, they're Gods. Well, of course the obvious answer is they're not, and should really grow up. It's all a bit downhill, and I'm aware I may be insulting someone, whether intentionally or not. Sorry in advance, but really.

That, sweetheart, is the way of the world. (my wanting to quote someone here is amazing, and yet I can't remember who said that...)

IN ESSENCE: I agree with what you say, and fully endorse the message, but there are some things good people generally just can't control. We wish we could have a world without pain, without ignorence, but it sadly is never going to happen as long as we're all human.

_Xenronn, who feels a little like he's harping, and a little like he's about to make the same hypocritical mistake explained by clicking "Add Reply"....

What's so hard about actually being against it, instead of just saying "oh, it's always going to be like this." I mean, I get what you're saying, I relate very much...but doesn't mean we should put up with it. The world can be unfair and all that jazz, but I'd rather do something about it, than nothing.

I'd continue on and also respond to everyone else posts, but Gibbs is right in front of my monitor, blocking the view, and I have to go to bed. I'll do so tomorrow.

What's so hard about actually being against it, instead of just saying "oh, it's always going to be like this." I mean, I get what you're saying, I relate very much...but doesn't mean we should put up with it. The world can be unfair and all that jazz, but I'd rather do something about it, than nothing.

Couldn't've said it better myself.

I hate it when people just basically say there's no point in trying....

Can really make you feel like trying really is pointless sometimes.

But...never give up!

-Jordboy1

I am just going to bow down in homage of this blog entry.

*goes off to add link somewhere in his own blog.*

-Zar-