ALVIS

79,100 years ago, Teridax rounded up the most active instigators of the Matoran Civil War, trapped them in the Archives, and loosed the exhibits on them. Many were probably eaten.

 

Just pointing out something: the Vortixx who found the viruses was disintegrated by TSO; beings can't be revived without a body. 

They were disintegrated? Sorry, I need to re-read "Reign of Shadows". 

 

No, the Vortixx wasn't disintegrated. TSO used his staff to gag the Vortixx in crystalline Protodermis, and the Vortixx died of asphyxiation.

People should really read these stories before telling people that BS01 has it wrong. :/

Interesting points. Vastus was the one who told Mata Nui about Tarduk and his tales of the Great Maze. He was the reason Mata Nui went looking for the maze. Velika needed Mata Nui and Makuta to complete their dual destiny so that he could take over the planet, so it would make sense that he would encourage one of his agents to send Mata Nui in the right direction. 

False. It was actually Crotesius who told Mata Nui about the expedition, as mentioned in Journey's End.

We actually have a topic for this now.

I think Kiina is actually one of the least likely people; she really seems like she was just hoping for other worlds. Kiina is a character that longs for something better than she has, and the fact that she dreams about visiting other worlds does not confirm that she knows for they existed or was in contact with anyone from one of them.

Plus, if you look at The Legend Reborn, she's not keen on the Great Beings, calling them "Great Destroyers" and all. Sure, Velika is also not a big fan of the GBs in general, but you'd think Kiina wouldn't be quite so harsh if she was personally reporting to one.

Tarix seems like he could be interesting as an informant. He's heroic, but he's also very quiet, and we never really learned a lot about him. He could certainly be hiding something.

Perditus would be a good choice, especially since it would give him some actual characterization.

I don't think Greg has put a lot of though behind this, probably he didn't really considered the idea until he was asked, so I would say there's no much help in readin the serieals or even books in order to find these agents, I don't think you would find clues save for the fact of a character having too much free time to do it or someone who didn't appear as much as other characters.

So, it could be almost anyone.

I'm not asking people to look through previous story for intentional clues of being an informant. But I think we can look at these characters, their personalities, their histories, and their affiliations, and try to get some idea of who would be most likely to have allied themselves with Velika.

Keep in mind, whoever was acting as an informant must have had some way to communicate with Velika across the void of space. Yet since telecommunications were never seen on Bara Magna in our story, this must have been kept secret from everyone else. I wonder where they hid their gadgets.

Go to this page and give it a read. It should tell you all you need to know, with references to the Greg quotes that confirm its information.

Greg's just confirmed that Velika has agents loyal to him on Bara Magna, who have been reporting the goings-on to him over the past 100,000 years. Most intriguingly, he's confirmed -- wait for it --

One or more of these agents are characters we met in 2009 story.

I'd have made a poll if I were able, but as I'm frugal with my money, I'm no Premier Member. I invite S&T to review all Bara Magna characters and consider who might have been an informant all along. Savvy?

I'm keeping track of who's suspected by whom on this handy-dandy "Suspicion Chart". The rankings are based on the number of posters vouching for or against that character being an informant. I've only recorded votes that used in-story evidence; people who say "not So-and-So, I don't want them to be the informant" will not be counted.

Currently, Vastus and Atakus are topping the charts, followed by Metus. The two least suspected people on the planet are Gresh and Tarduk.

(First page... excellent. Let the theorizing truly begin.)

Triple post for even MORE interesting information:

In his latest post on the subject, Greg confirms that some of Velika's Bara Magna agents were characters we met in 2009. (!!!!)

 

 

You've just given a tantalizing hint that Velika has had loyal agents/contacts stationed on Bara Magna. My question, then, is a simple one.

 

Were any of the Bara Magna characters we saw in 2009 acting as informants for Velika?

 

(Or were most of Velika's contacts just people we didn't meet?)

I think it would be enormously unfair of me to say that and then say that all his agents were people you didn't meet (that seems like a cheat). So yes to your first question.

Place your bets now, people. Maybe there should be a poll on this to see who's the likeliest suspect(s).

Double post for relevant story information: I asked Greg a few questions about Kabrua and his Vorox, and was not disappointed. Greg's confirmed that their blasters were given to them by Velika, and that they are not quite the same as the 2009 vehicle set force blasters (awww) -- but more intriguingly, he's also hinted that Velika has minions loyal to him on Spherus Magna.

 

 

The Yesterday Quest featured Kabrua and a pack of his Vorox, who had made contact with Velika. They also wielded rare and powerful Core War-era weaponry: blasters, which were capable of launching spheres of explosive force. A few questions about these Vorox.

 

1. Gelu originally thought the Vorox had contacted a GB (which turned out to be true) because he thought this technology was "beyond the backwards Vorox", but this was before he found out that the Vorox were intelligent. Did Velika give the Vorox these weapons, or did they have them during the Core War and keep them for 100,000 years?

 

2. Various Bara Magna vehicles seen in 2009 sets and story were equipped with "force blasters", described as having a near-identical function to the weapons wielded by the Vorox. Are the Vorox's blasters and force blasters one and the same?

 

3. Kabrua also knew of the regression of the Bara Magna Vorox when he encountered Gelu and company, just a few days or weeks after the reformation of Spherus Magna. This surprised Gelu, because of how quickly Kabrua found out. It is possible that Velika gave them this information, but then again, Velika would not really have any reason to know about the Bara Magna Vorox. How did Kabrua find out about the treatment of the Bara Magna Vorox?

 

Thank you for your time, as always.

1) Yes, he did

2) Based on the same tech, but not exactly the same.

3) Ah, very good question. Here's a hint -- although the GBs had lost contact with Mata Nui, Velika never lost contact with the remnants of Spherus Magna. So he knew a great deal of what was going on through agents loyal to him that no one else in the MU would have known.

Well, Boidoh already made the edits in accordance, that's the trouble. I'm not going to revert them unless he agrees to it.

So, @ Boidoh: sorry we all made such a fuss over astronomical bodies in a dead fictional series. No, seriously -- I am sorry.

After Greg's latest post, I don't think this argument really needs to be continued. Whether or not they were moons or planets didn't matter to the story team or to Greg. In effect, I think he's admitting he doesn't know what he's doing, and deferring this matter to fans who know orbital physics better than he does (e.g. bonesiii).

Keeping that in mind, I really don't care what we end up saying on BS01, but I think bonesiii's case makes the most sense. If we all agree with that, perhaps we can make the requisite edits, apologize to Boidoh, and bring this whole silly snaffu to rest.

 

Subject Rejection Reason Posted

Re: Chat with Greg Farshtey

LEGO General

Was Reysa revived? - Killed by a tentacled monster

 

Your post is considered inappropriate. Please review the community guidelines for more information.

 

What!?

 

I was curious to see if a moon could have a moon, WEEKS AGO. Thats why.

 

Ohhhh.... now it makes sense. Okay. Forgiven. Without context, it sounded like you'd just wondered whether or not they were moons or planets, despite all previous references. (In retrospect, you could have just asked bones, since he seems to know orbital physics out the wazoo. But I guess we can't repeat the past.)

In cases like this, you have access to the context and reasoning behind your question, but Greg doesn't. That's why, whenever I ask questions on the LMB, I always try to include my hypotheses and reasoning, instead of just asking him. (Ex: "Did Makuta Miserix create the Kanohi Dragon? It seems right up his alley.", as opposed to just "Did Miserix create the Kanohi Dragon?" It's a small and trivial example, but it's a simple illustration.)

As for the blocked post, I think the mods took issue with the word "killed". They're inconsistent with that rule, but it happens. Ironically, they might be fine with you saying "Dragged off and presumably eaten by" a tentacled monster.

I'd like to know what the point of not calling them actual moons is, in short. It worked just fine if they were moons. Why not?

Really, that is my main issue with all of this. Why was it a question worth asking in the first place?

(Copied from my rant on Boidoh's BS01 page)

Boidoh, I appreciate the work you're doing with Greg, but it seems like a lot of the time, your end goal is to extort answers from Greg that you want to hear; would it be possible to change tactics, and focus on just asking him a question and waiting to see his response? You pestered the poor man half to death on Lehvak-Kal, and while it did end in a triumph of logic and physics over Greg's longstanding apathy, it kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If you're going to ask about matters that are noticeably disputed, such as the moons thing, I think the only ethical thing to do is to present both sides of the argument reasonably and rationally. You could have asked, "When separated from Bara Magna, did Aqua Magna and Bota Magna orbit Solis Magna as their own planetoids, or did they orbit Bara Magna as moons? Many sources in canon describe them as moons of Bara Magna, but I think that could be poetic license. Would you mind confirming for me whether they were moons or planets?"

That way, Greg would have seen the arguments from both sides and been reminded that canon had previously referred to them as moons, and he could have taken that into account in his answer. If he were really convinced that Bota Magna and Aqua Magna should have their own orbits around Solis Magna, he would have specified that, but if he were unsure or simply forgetful, he would have been reminded of the canon specification and been able to fall back on that. You see what I'm saying?

In fact, I think the best thing to do would be to ask the question over again, and this time, mention that canon always calls them moons. "In two previous answers, you said that Bota Magna and Aqua Magna were separate planets from Bara Magna, and orbited Solis Magna on their own. However, others have reminded me that many canon sources refer to them as moons of Bara Magna. I think that could be poetic license, but what do you think?"

Would you mind doing that? Fessing up and presenting the other side of the argument so Greg can consider it would bring a peaceful end to this whole mess, and I think it would clear your reputation on both BS01 and BZP.

Well, I guess I can't argue with Greg. I can still try to salvage the UDD symbol, though. What if that symbol wasn't supposed to represent the orbital path of Bota Magna and Aqua Magna around Bara Magna -- what if it was meant to represent the three shards arriving at a point of alignment -- the optimal point of alignment for Mata Nui to reform them and complete his mission?

That... actually makes the UDD symbol even cooler, in my opinion. It wasn't just a reminder of "hey, these are the shards you need to fix sometime", it was a diagram of "the clock is ticking; they'll be aligned like this just once in the next 100,000 years, don't forget". It lends the symbol a great deal of urgency and gravitas.

Alright. I can work with that.

 

 

"That part of Aqua Magna was pointed away from Bara Magna, into a locked orbit like our moon."

 

Aqua and Bota Magna did not rotate around Bara Magna, so they are not moons, they had their own orbit around Solis Magna. They are their own planet.

 

I hate how stuff like the Mata Nui Saga keeps calling them moons.

 

Eh, they're called moons plenty of times. Actually, I think they were called moons every time they were described in story. Raid on Vulcanus has Gelu's line "Agori, you've been in danger since before Bara Magna had moons", the Mata Nui Saga calls them "the jungle moon" and ocean moon, and I think Journey's End calls them that, too, though I can't be certain.

 

Additionally, I don't think it was ever confirmed that they orbited Solis Magna. Where did you hear that?

 

2. Does Bara Magna orbit a star?

2) Yes

 

When asked if the sun Spherus Magna orbits had a name, Greg called it "Solis Magna." Solis coming from the word Sol, meaning sun.

 

No, no, no. I know about Solis Magna being the star in Spherus Magna's system. Do you take me for someone who doesn't compulsively read BS01 most every day?

My concern was about Boidoh's claim that Bota Magna and Aqua Magna both orbited Solis Magna on their own, making them separate planets, and not moons of Bara Magna. I've never heard that before, and I'm extremely skeptical, considering that they've always been called moons everywhere else.

Yeah I know it said that, but this bull thing was brown, and cool looking. It kinda looked like an Ash Bear.

Well, it could be that. Especially since its movements are similar to the bucking movements of Graalok in Mask of Light. XD

"That part of Aqua Magna was pointed away from Bara Magna, into a locked orbit like our moon."

 

Aqua and Bota Magna did not rotate around Bara Magna, so they are not moons, they had their own orbit around Solis Magna. They are their own planet.

 

I hate how stuff like the Mata Nui Saga keeps calling them moons.

Eh, they're called moons plenty of times. Actually, I think they were called moons every time they were described in story. Raid on Vulcanus has Gelu's line "Agori, you've been in danger since before Bara Magna had moons", the Mata Nui Saga calls them "the jungle moon" and ocean moon, and I think Journey's End calls them that, too, though I can't be certain.

Additionally, I don't think it was ever confirmed that they orbited Solis Magna. Where did you hear that?

I doubt it was meant to be any specific Rahi. The bucking motions indicate the machine was supposed to emulate a mount, such as a Muaka, a Kane-Ra, or even a Tahtorak (keep in mind, Power Play also features a carving of a Skakdi riding a Tahtorak).

Anyway, it's a funny intersection of promotional materials and canonical appearances, and I like it. The Piraka Stronghold always did have spunk.

Others have suggested there still should have been a contingency design to back him up somewhere in the torso, but this is obviously hindsight talking; if we didn't know the head was destroyed in the story, would we think of this? The Great Beings wouldn't have known that in advance. They did think of many contingencies, but that should have a limit. Especially since they had very little time to complete the giant's design. Also, the Ignika actually was such a backup system (in the torso at that), and Makuta ejected that in order to move Mata Nui so he could take over, so the argument really would be that they should have a backup of the backup. And wouldn't Tren Krom have known about it and intervened to ensure the good guys destroyed any such backupbackup?

 

(Which could possibly have failed, except that Teridax could only focus in one place at a time; a simultaneous attack on a backup and the Core could have gotten the backup if it was swift and devastating enough. So I think had one existed, unless Teridax invented it himself, it would likely have been destroyed by the time of the end. And see my post in the character mistakes post about why Teridax would be unlikely to have time to do that.)

Forget Tren Krom, he was going after the Core Processor. If worst had come to worst, Velika would likely have led the rebellion right where they needed to go.

You can claim non-interference all you like, but I doubt he'd have stood around twiddling his thumbs if it had come to that.

But didn't Greg write the 'basic plot of TLR'?

I remember in the credits it said written by Greg Farshtey, and I believe it is the only movie that credited him for something other than 'special thanks'.

Yes, I know Greg helped write it. I figured that it would be better communicated in his writing than in the movie, but I was wrong. Still a steaming pile of kikanalo dung.

Eh. Greg did a good job with Legends of Metru Nui and Web of Shadows, but the basic plot of The Legend Reborn is so bad, he couldn't save it, at least in my opinion.

Going back to the point of this thread, though, it does treat Tuma more respectfully than the film version.

 

 

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/10850973/highlight/true#M248138

 

Hero Agori... is male. 

 

boo.

 

See, this is why I told you not to ask Greg!!  >   >   >

 

To be fair, Greg did proceed to say he knew next to nothing about the MLN campaign, so we can and should take his word with a grain of salt.

 

(But if we're going to be all "word of God" about this, I will admit that in Raid on Vulcanus, Gresh describes the Hero Agori with male pronouns. But again, I must implore readers to consider that Greg doesn't know what he's talking about.)

 

...

But if we're going to be all "word of God" about this, I will admit that in Raid on Vulcanus, Gresh describes the Hero Agori with male pronouns.  

Well, that's that.  Straight from Raid on Vulcanus, the Hero Agori is indisputably male.  

 

Why does everyone have a problem with a male character who is compassionate and humble?  I know we need more female characters, but I like this one as a male.  We don't get many male characters who talk their way through problems in an action story.  Bionicle in particular seems to have many male characters attack potential allies (Tahu, Kopaka and Takanuva come to mind) or make otherwise arrogant decisions. 

 

I feel like I am the only one NOT upset by this.

 

Boo hiss. BIONICLE has far too many male characters, period. As toa kopaka pointed out above, the extensive list of male BIONICLE characters already includes plenty of measured, wise, and intelligent males, so your point is invalid.

It would have been so nice to have at least one more female character, just one more. Would that have done so much harm, to increase female representation by one character in the face of some 200-odd males?

This is the exact same reason that, while confirming the existence of the Earth Tribe, I intentionally did not ask about the Element Lord of Earth's gender -- so that it could be left open to interpretation. These things should NEVER be left up to Greg Farshtey.