ALVIS

Nope. The intention was to give him many powers, but there was a side-effect that made him permanently invisible.

Source, please? I've never seen this idea before. Jerbraz says nothing of the sort in Brothers In Arms, and his BS01 page uses vague phrasing. I don't recall Greg Farshtey ever saying anything to that effect (although I could be wrong).

 

Hmm, I have a hard time seeing Axxon as being from a well-known species. He has so many incredible powers, and if the Order had the ability to give these out via modifications, wouldn't they give them to powerless beings like Hydraxon, Jerbraz and Mazeka?

Well Jerbraz was going to get powers, but the experiment went wrong and he turned invisible instead. Also, Mazeka is useful as a spy since he is a Matoran and can blend in easily. If a Ko-Matoran were shooting blasts of energy everywhere people would know something's up....

 

I imagine Order members have a choice as to whether or not they want upgrades, and Hydraxon and co. just didn't want them. If I were already proficient with weapons, I'd rather get armed to the teeth than take part in an (evidently risky) experiment to gain new powers that I'd then have to learn how to use.

 

Minor clarification: the experiment was intended to make Jerbraz invisible. The problem was that they accidentally made it permanent.

 

 

Also I think the only time the Matoran ever fought alongside the Toa was out of necessity

That's generally the only time any good guy fights, including Toa.

 

Haha, good point.

 

So what I'm getting is that because the Glatorian (I'm using Glatorian to refer to the species here because we never really got a name for their species) outnumber the Toa (for now) and because they have a better knowledge of the landscape, the Glatorian would still be pretty useful. And even in the far future, just because the Toa might be more powerful doesn't mean the Glatorian would stop protecting.

 

In a hypothetical far future where there were about the same amount of Toa and Glatorian and the MU species had inhabited Spherus Magna long enough to know the landscape, would the Toa be considered superior to the Glatorian? I'm kind of inclined to go with laredios' description that the Glatorian would be more low-level, local protectors, or they would work directly with the Toa.

 

Greg always loves putting things in terms of comic book universes, so I'll give it a try. The Glatorian are the police officers, the firefighters, or the soldiers; the Toa are the superheroes.

 

 

 

Antidermic (Rahi): Created from viruses (a substance chemically similar to antidermis) and liquid protodermis by the Makuta or other beings (e.g. Artakha, Great Beings, Hand of Artakha) to fill ecological roles in the Matoran Universe. Can be programmed with protodermic powers. Subject to Rahi Control and the Kanohi Faxon. Examples: First Rahi, Energy Hounds, Muaka, Krahka, etc.

You may be on to something here, although the name you gave this is questionable, since Rahi are not made out of antidermis.

I chose to use the label "antidermic" for two reasons: one, because viruses are apparently similar to antidermis; and two, because I like the symmetry of Makuta and Rahi both being tied to antidermis. It strengthens the bond between the creator and the created. But that's just my personal perspective on the mythos, of course.

The energy hound were made by the OoMN, and the First Rahi by the GBs. Not to say they weren't made by proto+virus, but that they could be different from makuta-rahi

 

Yes, I'm aware of who created the Energy Hounds and the First Rahi. You underestimate the amount of time I spend on BS01. But I included them in the same category, because, otherwise, why would they be recognized as Rahi by the Rahi Control power? I like for things to fit into neat categories. It's all about internal consistency.

@ bonesiii: I knew I was forgetting someone! I would group Tren Krom, Artakha, Karzahni, and Umbra in a group of unique protodermic beings, who don't belong to any set species.

 

Antidermic (Rahi): Created from viruses (a substance chemically similar to antidermis) and liquid protodermis by the Makuta or other beings (e.g. Artakha, Great Beings, Hand of Artakha) to fill ecological roles in the Matoran Universe. Can be programmed with protodermic powers. Subject to Rahi Control and the Kanohi Faxon. Examples: First Rahi, Energy Hounds, Muaka, Krahka, etc.

You may be on to something here, although the name you gave this is questionable, since Rahi are not made out of antidermis.

I chose to use the label "antidermic" for two reasons: one, because viruses are apparently similar to antidermis; and two, because I like the symmetry of Makuta and Rahi both being tied to antidermis. It strengthens the bond between the creator and the created. But that's just my personal perspective on the mythos, of course.

Well, those species native to Aqua magna have been called creatures.

That's because they are entirely organic life forms that arose from the natural environment of Spherus Magna. Therefore, they are a completely different class of being.

The way I see it, there are several fundamental types of being on Spherus Magna:

• Organic: Born of organic tissues on Spherus Magna, with no naturally occurring powers. Examples: Agori, Bone Hunters, Glatorian (Vorox), Great Beings, Skrall, and creatures.
• Robot: Created from metals and inorganic materials (including protodermis) and programmed with artificial intelligence to carry out a function. Protodermic robots can be programmed with protodermic powers. Examples: Baterra, Bohrok, Maxilos, Nektann, Vahki, Great Spirit Robot(s).
• Protodermic (Sapient): Created from organic and solid protodermis by the Great Beings or Mata Nui to fill civilized roles in the Matoran Universe. Can be programmed with protodermic powers, including fusion. Examples: Matoran/Toa/Turaga, Kestora, Skakdi, Vortixx, and the many unnamed species.
• Antidermic (Makuta): Created from antidermis by Mata Nui to create and monitor other antidermic beings in the Matoran Universe. Chemically unstable; can be programmed with many protodermic powers, including diffusion. Vulnerable to the Golden Armor. Examples: Makuta, Kraata, Rahkshi.
• Antidermic (Rahi): Created from viruses (a substance chemically similar to antidermis) and liquid protodermis by the Makuta or other beings (e.g. Artakha, Great Beings, Hand of Artakha) to fill ecological roles in the Matoran Universe. Can be programmed with protodermic powers. Subject to Rahi Control and the Kanohi Faxon. Examples: First Rahi, Energy Hounds, Muaka, Krahka, etc.
• Elemental: Beings who are or have become one with the elemental forces of the universe. Examples: Element Lords, Avohkah, Vatuka, and the two elemental beings seen in Web of the Visorak.
• Other: ??? Examples: Annona, Energized Protodermis.

This grouping relies on a few headcanon details, and it may not be perfect, but it makes sense to me.

I'd say the poll results show that community opinion is pretty firmly on the No side of things. No word yet on whether we should try to de-canonize the existing differences in Melding Makuta powers (courage, peace, telekinesis, no darkness/anger/fear).

From what we've seen of her so far (which isn't much, I'll grant you), Gali is the most qualified Toa to lead. Although her attempted solution to the Tahu/Kopaka fight was perhaps not very effective, her call for a vote shows that she values consensus and a sense of respect/equality on the team. We also know from her bio that she's passionate about her cause and "has a fierce sense of justice". All of these values seem like prime leadership material to me.

There's also the fact that all of the other Toa are distinctly unqualified for the duty. Tahu and Kopaka are too passionate and prideful, and Onua, Lewa, and Pohatu are too apathetic or lazy. Each of them would require some character development before they could handle leading the team. Gali's flaws aren't nearly as overpowering.

Interesting. Dorek failed to convince me on BS01, but after seeing various other arguments and perspectives, I am willing to admit that the "Masters" term has some more advantages than I thought. I still would prefer to use "Toa", but, as others have said, I will reserve judgment until we get some more solid story sources (ie. books).

All right, let us be clear: There are no Greg answers on this subject for 2008. 

 

 

Listen to the Masterful words of Greg from times ancient and knowledgeable : 

 

8)I've prepared a list of Rahkshi powers commonly associated with evil, and the powers they might have in the Melding Alternate Universe. Are they plausible (I'm not asking you to canonize them, just to say if it's possible)? 

 

List: 

 

Fear  Courage (meaning it gives courage to people, for example to rebel against the EL) 

Poison  Purity (to heal the planet after the war) 

Fragmentation  Unity (it can remeld fragments and ruins or it can inspire unity to people) 

Disintegration  Creation (from mere dust and earth it can build simple objects and structures) 

Hunger  Energizing (gives energy to people) 

Anger  Peace (makes people wish for peace) 

 

8) Why do you assume the Rahkshi have different powers there? Any of those powers could be used by a hero -- for example, a plant menace threatens a major city, so the hero uses poison to stop it. A bunch of bank robbers are threatening people, so the hero uses their fear power to make them too scared to shoot anyone. Etc.

 

The quote in this post is from April of 2010. The (2008) refers to when the Official Greg Dialogue STARTED, not to the actual date on the quoted post. 

 

 

8)I've prepared a list of Rahkshi powers commonly associated with evil, and the powers they might have in the Melding Alternate Universe. Are they plausible (I'm not asking you to canonize them, just to say if it's possible)? 

 

List: 

 

Fear  Courage (meaning it gives courage to people, for example to rebel against the EL) 

Poison  Purity (to heal the planet after the war) 

Fragmentation  Unity (it can remeld fragments and ruins or it can inspire unity to people) 

Disintegration  Creation (from mere dust and earth it can build simple objects and structures) 

Hunger  Energizing (gives energy to people) 

Anger  Peace (makes people wish for peace) 

 

8) Why do you assume the Rahkshi have different powers there? Any of those powers could be used by a hero -- for example, a plant menace threatens a major city, so the hero uses poison to stop it. A bunch of bank robbers are threatening people, so the hero uses their fear power to make them too scared to shoot anyone. Etc.

 

The date in this post for the same quote is correct. 

 

Sorry for confusion.

 

Personally, since this quote is after the quotes maxim21 posted (April as opposed to January), I would consider it to be Greg's final word on the subject, in much the same manner as I would consider answers to the nature of Mata Nui to be more accurate in 2008 than 2003. I would not oppose a motion for clarification, however. 

Oops. That changes my stance considerably. I then propose that we disregard all answers that state Melding Makuta have different powers, and instead accept that Melding Makuta have the same powers as our Makuta.

The first question is actually meant to gauge which generation introduced fans to BIONICLE, ie. whether they are "genwunners" or G2 fans. "Both" is not an option, because one cannot have been introduced to BIONICLE by both G1 and G2. I will rephrase the question to make it more clear.

The reason for this question is an objection raised by Dorek, which suggested that proponents of the term Toa (Generation 2) might be influenced by a sense of nostalgia for Generation 1. I doubt his claim, but I was hoping to investigate some causality/correlation between the two questions.

As for my opinion...

I disagree. Sources refer to individual Toa as "the Master of [their element]", but these are individualized titles. All story material (episodes, booklets, etc.) refers to the group of heroes as "the Toa". I have not seen any source that refers to the group itself as "the Masters". This is why I favor the term Toa (Generation 2).

Perhaps we could make a new poll, asking whether people prefer any of the following courses of action:

• accepting Greg's earliest answers (2008) as canon
• accepting Greg's later answers (2010) and latest answers (2014) as canon
• accepting Greg's later answers (2010) as canon, but not his latest answers (2014)
• explaining the issue to Greg and asking him to clarify

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how the poll should be set up, or whether we should have the poll at all?

For some time now, editors on BS01 (myself included) have been waging an off-and-on argument about what to call the heroes of Generation 2. Some favor Masters; others favor Toa (Generation 2). Various arguments have been made in support of and against both terms. I do not in any way purport to have the authority to settle this dispute through a poll, but I am interested in gauging what the BZPower community at large thinks.

That's all I have to say right now. I will elaborate on my personal position later.

Based on these answers, it seems that when Greg came up with the concept of Melding Makuta in 2008, he didn't intend for them to have different powers. Over the next two years, he apparently got asked a lot of questions about whether they had different powers, and changed his mind. Now, which answer do we go with? Same powers, or different?

Complicating matters is this note from the Farshtey Feed. Apparently, Greg said that Darkness, Fear, and Anger would not be powers possessed by the Melding Makuta. It's possible that this is the reason somebody asked if Courage and Peace could replace Fear and Anger: they saw a note on BS01 that said "Melding Makuta don't have these powers" and tried to fill the gap.

Of course, that answer came two years after Greg's previous answer, which stated that the Melding Makuta would have all the same powers as our Makuta (which, if you ask me, is about 42 too many... but that's neither here nor there).

Personally, I thought the 2009 sets were the best in a long time, especially after 2008. Instead of being dominated by bland grey, black, and silver, 2009 sets saw the return of bold, bright colors. The weapons and helmets, especially those of the Fire and Ice tribes, excellently communicated elemental themes and vivid character. Indeed, the sets of 2009 were possibly my favorite, save those of 2015.

The story, I will readily admit, was subpar.

 

Listen to the Masterful words of Greg from times ancient and knowledgeable : 

 

8)I've prepared a list of Rahkshi powers commonly associated with evil, and the powers they might have in the Melding Alternate Universe. Are they plausible (I'm not asking you to canonize them, just to say if it's possible)? 

 

List: 

 

Fear  Courage (meaning it gives courage to people, for example to rebel against the EL) 

Poison  Purity (to heal the planet after the war) 

Fragmentation  Unity (it can remeld fragments and ruins or it can inspire unity to people) 

Disintegration  Creation (from mere dust and earth it can build simple objects and structures) 

Hunger  Energizing (gives energy to people) 

Anger  Peace (makes people wish for peace) 

 

8) Why do you assume the Rahkshi have different powers there? Any of those powers could be used by a hero -- for example, a plant menace threatens a major city, so the hero uses poison to stop it. A bunch of bank robbers are threatening people, so the hero uses their fear power to make them too scared to shoot anyone. Etc.

 

Wait, this isn't even a new idea? Man, we are some collective dummies.

 

If that's so, perhaps BS01 should disregard the Courage/Peace canonization entirely, as per our "preference to earlier answers" policy.

Can we just give this a rest now, guys?

Well, that's what I was trying to do with this topic: provide an occasion for us to settle this, once and for all. From the responses so far, I think it's safe to say that ​no further canonization along these lines will be conducted (at least by members of BZP S&T who respect the community's wishes).

Of course, the point that constable-frozen brings up in their post above is really something else entirely, and questions the validity of the canonization that set off this argument. Greg often uses technically ambiguous language to confirm or deny canonizations. Perhaps we could set up some sort of Sliding Scale of Definitive Language with which to judge his responses.

Greg elaborates on his interpretation of Velika's character.

 

 

So I've been wondering about Velika...

 

1) Did Velika come to regard the Matoran Universe inhabitants as truly living beings with free will, since he gave them sapience, or did he always see them as nanotech?

2) Did Velika like/care for the Matoran Resistance team he spent so much time with? He seemed fond of them in the novels.

3) Velika very actively helped the Toa Inika fight against the Piraka, even crafting zamor launchers for them. Why?

4) So Velika wants to rule Spherus Magna because he believes that poor leadership is what lead to disaster in the first place. Why is he so convinced that HE has to be the one ruling?

1) Somewhere in the middle

2) I think he cared for them as a creator cares for the things he makes, probably.

 

3) Because the Piraka were a threat. They were chaotic. Velika wants to impose order.

 

4) For the same reason that anyone wants to be a ruler -- he's basically a narcissist. He thinks he is smarter and better than anyone around him, and so of course he should be the one in charge.

Will he? No. Do we all want him to? Yes.

 

I do think that there is a small change that one day, faaaar into the future, that he finally gives us a bullet pointed list of the final arc, answering bits and pieces like: what happens to the GBs, Takanuva's destiny, which of the Toa Mata die (possible), What is the GSB? etc...

Greg actually has revealed Takanuva's destiny: he was going to play a major role in a "civil war" between the Great Beings. (source)

 

 

My plan was to have him play a major role in a Great Beings' civil war, between Velika and like-minded followers who felt the GBs should dominate Spherus Magna directly, and other GBs that wanted no interference with the society at all. That assumed that the story team did not have other plans for the character, but if they did not, that was my intention for him.

Before I incur too much vitriol from those who are opposed to the concept, I want to stress that this isn't my idea. I made this topic because I am sick of reversing edits to the BS01 pages related to this idea, and I just want it settled, one way or another.

Just as long as we're all on the same page here.

Ever since Greg Farshtey approved the idea that Melding Makuta have Courage and Peace instead of Anger and Fear, I've seen people claiming that they should also have Creation, Purity, Prosperity, and Faith.  ArcticFreeze17 has a topic about the various powers he thinks Melding Makuta should have, and he's hardly the first. There have even been edits made to BS01 to that effect (which I have had to reverse). Thus, I'm asking the community to decide if we want to ask Greg to canonize the idea.

Do you want to ask Greg to canonize any or all of the following?

• The Melding Makuta possess the power of Faith instead of Fragmentation.
• The Melding Makuta possess the power of Creation instead of Disintegration.
• The Melding Makuta possess the power of Purity instead of Poison.
• The Melding Makuta possess the power of Prosperity instead of Hunger.

Keep in mind that Greg has the final say over this. Even if a majority say that we should ask Greg, he has the power to say no.

One additional note: In Reign of Shadows, Alternate Teridax fights a Shadow Takanuva and shatters him into pieces. This would imply that the Melding Makuta do, at least, possess the power of Fragmentation -- or that they have a power with a similar effect. Please keep this in mind during the discussion.

I accept the post-2010 material as legitimate story, and I utilize it in my headcanon and fanfiction. I didn't like some of the retcons at first, but they've grown on me, and I've developed a few theories that smoothly integrate Velika and the Red Star into my interpretation of BIONICLE.

However, if I had the chance to go back and do it over again, I think it would have been wiser for BIONICLE to end with 2010. Even though the ending wasn't very satisfying in some regards, it was still an ending, and a moderately happy one at that. The post-2010 stories had the unfortunate effect of making BIONICLE seem unfinished, which it really didn't have to be. If we had ended BIONICLE without ever knowing what the Red Star was, or why Velika was such a strange character, that would have been acceptable.

In other words, I voted Option 1 for the first question and Option 5 for the second.

Hello, you've found me -- this is nicrophorus-americanus. I'm glad and slightly flattered that people like the headcanons I posted. I don't consider my idea about seasons to be really that groundbreaking, but I think it provides a nice bit of color to the MU. And it doesn't seem to go against anything explicitly stated, so that's nice.

With regards to the other discussion that's popped up in the posts above: I do have a "patch" for the trouble of years, which is the idea that 1 BIONICLE year = 1 human month. That reduces the gigantic span of 100,000 years to 8,333 years, which, while still large, is a little easier for me take seriously. Of course, this idea is strictly against Greg's answers, and it raises some interesting questions about SM's orbit, so I wouldn't expect everyone to appreciate it.

I also seem to recall the BIONICLE Story Squad trying to canonize a 36-hour day for the MU, based on the Great Sundial from MNOG. I don't have strong opinions about that, however.

Thanks for your interest! I always enjoy knowing when people like my ideas. 

At this point, we should all accept that we will finish the Mata Nui saga -- all of us, individually, with our own interpretations of the mythos. Some fans think the Great Beings arrive on Spherus Magna; others think they're long gone. Some fans think Teridax must have survived, and will be back to menace the Matoran; others focus on Velika, or the Barraki, or the Shadowed One. And all of those interpretations are valid.

Greg Farshtey is no longer writing the stories. We are. And I think it's high time we recognize and celebrate that privilege.