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The Official OTC TBRPG Planning and Organization Topic


Noxryn

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It'll probably end up more like an RTT; Real Time Tactics, as opposed to Real Time Strategy. While your overarcing strategy will still be important, it's the small things that count. Honest Joe might make a living, but the outerworlds are a haven of criminals and dissidents. Ruthless mining operations, constant pirate raids... really, the only reason the nations of the innerworlds haven't done anything is because, well, they don't honestly care. So long as the megacorps get their shipments of foxtrot ore and no one gets powerful enough to threaten them, it can all burn.Yeah, the plot runs off of a lot of handwaves, but thankfully it's not really important for these sorts of things. I think everyone will be too busy scheming to care.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Just don't expect to ever expand your influence into the innerworlds. Research rich they may be, but the innerworlds have had decades if not centuries (ambiguous time scale, activate!) to mine their worlds and build warfleets that have all but ensured peace by the simple fact that everyone's too scared to fight each other.Another one of the reasons why the outerworlds are so chaos ridden and yet so profitable. There's a lot of grievances that are best taken out there rather than in the innerworlds. Just no one try the nuclear option, ok? People in the future still hate that.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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So. We have no hope of ever challenging the big dogs and we're fighting over whatever bits they decide they don't want......Yeah. That doesn't exactly motivate me.

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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It's kinda the whole point of the RPG. You are a fish in an inlet, fighting for supremacy amongst that inlet while the sharks roam outside, wondering just which one of you they'll eat.I did kinda emphasize this in that convo of ours.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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I must have missed it. Even if we win. We lose.Yeah. Uh, I've got other RP's I can join. One where my plans might actually matter.

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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The whole 'you never get big because if you do they come and eat you' thing that I repeated a few times?The whole point of the RPG is to be smallfry. Otherwise we might as well play FoG or IL3; this was to be on a smallscope level, if it's just another conquer the universe then we should wait for IL3.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Well, I won't be joining. I have no problem with it being small scale-but there being no hope of ever expanding? No chance of ever really changing anything? No chance of clever plans and hard work changing the status quo?It's not my kind of RPG.

Edited by Basilisk

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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Eh, that's why I didn't abandon FoG for this. I doubted people would actually want to play it once they realized that, no, they can't conquer the universe.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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That and it's a hopeless setting. Nothing you do will ever matter. Even bloody 40k throws in some hope now and then.Can you really blame me? It's an awesome concept, but the way it's heading I won't be joining. I'll have to shelve the communist cyborgs for now. Perhaps another time.

Edited by Basilisk

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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*shrug*Well, back to FoG in that case. Still hoping it'll be out before 2013.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Suppose so.Though my voice isn't the only one that matters on this issue.

Edited by Basilisk

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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I think there needs to be a bit of a balance to it. 'It's completely hopeless you'll never be big so shelve that ambition right now mister' is terrible. You should make it so that, if someone plays their cards right, they can see some results.Otherwise I'm not going to bother with ambition, and we're back to the electric chair scenario, which, beyond being hilarious, doesn't do a whole lot. If you're going to make it so the player can never be important, then don't include resource management stuff, don't include any of the strategy/tactics-game stuff. Just make it a character-driven dystopia of death.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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I wasn't asking for him to shelve the RP. Balance is all that is needed.Personally, I want to play communist cybernetic insurgents a tad bit more then I want to play Mongols. But if the Mongols are the only one with a chance of winning....

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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In that case I see no real reason why it'd be any better than IL3, or why it should even be there instead of IL3.I'm just not seeing how it's special if you can go off and conquer the supposedly unstoppable innerworlds. It just becomes another conquer the universe romp, which is fine, but I believe IL3 will do that so much better.

Edited by Void Prophet Alex Humva

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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....The fact you'd need a very clever plan, a decade or so to build up and you won't be able to do it all at once? The fact you don't start on an even footing with the Inner Worlds and have to work bloody hard for it? The fact it'll still be unlikely? You don't have to hand us victory on a silver platter. All we're asking for is a chance. Or the setting in general come to think of it. Corporations and insurgents are a different monster then the normal nation states.

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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Well there's no sign that IL.3's map will ever be completed, and I think you're kind of forgetting about the scale of the thing. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding something, your thing takes place in one solar system, not one-hundred-and-sixty. The players will still be starting off controlling one person, or one group of people, not an entire species. There is a civilization already in place in this game, and everybody is more-or-less part of it.The fact that you don't see the difference between this and the giant ice cube says kind of worrying things.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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Which is what I was thinking, when was the last time you saw Microsoft or the IRA taking over the world?You're close Rover; it's not in one system, but there's only a few dozen planets.But I mean this RPG has pretty small groups as it is.

Edited by Void Prophet Alex Humva

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Irish Republican Army.Well, with Rover's support gone, and him basically being the godfather of RPGRTSs, I'mma calling it quits folks. Hopefully I'll get FoG out sometime soon, but I wouldn't count on it.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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But they can still change the world. If the rim corporations can never compete with the inner world corporations then why play one? If an insurgency has no chance of freeing a sector of space why play one? It's hugely unlikely we'll be going a conquering. But insurgencies do take down nations on occasion, corporations do come up from nothing. Many fail. But not all of them.Despite what 1984 would have you believe, the future is not a boot stomping on a human face.

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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It's actually a human face stomping on a boot. Very avant-garde.Anyway, my problem here is that you're taking a very 'my way or the highway' approach here - the only two options you see are our characters not mattering at all (Because if they do, they get slaughtered by people infinitely more powerful than them) or conquering the universe. It's ridiculous. McDonald's hasn't set up a one-world government under Herr Ronald, sure, but go see if you can find a map showing every country that has McDonald's. Global conquest isn't the only way in which corporations/insurgencies/wacky pickpockets can matter.And, again, you seem to think that either you crush all ambition or you hand us victory on a silver platter, which is not only ridiculous but suggests that, given the repeated comparisons to IL.3, you think I'm going to make the same mistakes as my predecessors and make the game entirely about military conquest. If you believe that, never play it.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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Yeah. It's a great idea. We're objecting to one aspect of it. That doesn't mean you have to throw out the whole book.Personally, I would have liked to have seen this more then FoG. I guess that isn't happening.

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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I guess, but the more I look at this the more it breaks apart in my mind. Scheming and plotting is good and all, but what happens when Vahki one day builds up strength and goes off to fight the innerworlds in a glorious communist revolution? He can't exactly win because, well, the innerworlds are bloody monsters. Generations of resources being sapped and machines of war so frightening they no longer serve a purpose beyond ensuring MAD.I'm going to need to completely go rethink the plot to get this to work out, as obviously the innerworlds being these great menaces is going to rather seriously interfere with common sense.

Edited by Void Prophet Alex Humva

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Bah. Everyone knows you send in spies before you launch a revolution.And anyone who fights an open and fair battle during a revolution is doing it wrong. :PA fair fight is a insurgents worst nightmare.

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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Yes. And it's hardly as though Vahki couldn't find something between sabotage and guerrilla warfare, and apply it liberally. Not every battle in space has to be fought with the ships lining up and shooting at each other - again, if that's what you expect/want, never play IL.3.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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I was honestly trying to go for a Star Citizen vibe to all of this, but apparently I failed horrifically and now it's Firefly and I don't even know what the **** I'm doing now. And apparently in the process of that I'm making myself look like an arrogant two-dimensional imbecile who can't think more than two steps ahead.A plot rework is definitely in order, at the very least. The current one was rather specifically designed not to let innerworld interference, and obviously that's not an option anymore.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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All of the sudden I have an urge to resurrect the plot of the Starship Thunderbird for this.Excuse me, I'm going discuss this with Vahki.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Well Vahki got me to stop moping and actually do something productive. I think I have a better base plot now from which to build off of.Right now I'm just figuring out how exactly powerful I want people to start off as. On a scale of "you have a ship and it's about to explode" to "god-ruler of the universe", what's your guy's opinions?

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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Give us some options. Pick a certain range - maybe a certain range regarding how much money you can start with - and let us mix and match from there.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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I just gave you the biggest scale of power known to man kind. :PActually no, it forgets mice...I'm thinking you need enough money to make a few downpayments on some stuff to get yourself going. I'm currently researching to see what companies make around a million dollars a year; that sounds like a good base point to me. You'll need to grow if you want to do much more than hire a few dozen goons and a few cargo haulers, but as starting ten million initial plus a million annually sounds about right. Your average mall-cop is going run you three or four thousand a year, a more seasoned merc will probably take larger payments on a case to case basis.And there's always pirating. Get a good load of foxtrot ore and suddenly your coffers expand a good deal. Pirating is somewhat more spotty than a business, but it can be just as if not more profitable.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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...No. You gave us a decision between two equally ridiculous extremes.You still seem to want all of the players to start off in exactly the same way.And nobody knows or cares what foxtrot is, we just want you to come up with something that isn't a nationally-syndicated comic strip.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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I'm so confused. It's... like a scale of one to ten. The 'to' part is important. When was the last time a scale of one to ten was just one and ten?Yeesh. I'm the one who's grandmother died in a long and not all that pleasant process and I'm not the one biting off people's heads. Though admittedly I probably shouldn't be doing this right now, because I have enough stuff on my plate.I quite understand that not everyone's going be cookiecutter parts. I'm asking for a model, something to work off of.Also foxtrot ore is a joke I started and me and Vahki's convo; I guess it doesn't really work in a vacuum.

Edited by Void Prophet Alex Humva

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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You know, it seems like that would be better suited to a PM. Not in a topic about RPGs.Anyhow, Humva does what you said to me still apply? Will we be seeing this RPG?

I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You are wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

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To properly answer the question, based on your original plan it seems like it would be best for players to start out spread over 1-4 on the scale (and that, to me, is like a scale from 1-1000 when I'm not, you know, looking at it through the eyes of a caffeinated badger) - anywhere from a petty crook if they want a bit of a more personalized experience to an entrepreneur/budding revolutionary who's just starting to build up resources.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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I'm hoping to do this RPG, but that really depends on how much time I'll have. Robotics season is over in about a week or two, so my free time should go up after that. Hmm. That sounds about right. I'll get some model concepts working; not strict guidelines so much as "this is what you could do, try to get the general gist of your position in the universe from it." Just a word of note though about this universe; digital money is pretty common in the Inner Worlds, but due to some unfortunate hacking instances eons ago and more modernly don't expect to be able to hack in and drain people's accounts without a fair amount of effort and a very large risk factor. In the Outer Worlds physical currency is more common not only because of economics out there but also because of FTL comm stuff. FTL comms in this universe are short ranged, incapable of interstellar communication, and very expensive, so out here in the less developed frontier having a brick of whatever valuable material (foxtrot ore maybe?) is worth a lot more than a pendrive with digital cash.Also another note about the setting; while I will be making some changes to the FTL (Vahki might know what I'm talking about), FTL equipped ships are still a bit uncommon due to the logistics. Cargo haulers must have them obviously to be practical (unless you're doing stuff in-system), but your standard star fighter or lesser equipped vehicles aren't going be able to make that jump. As such public transport ships are usually large and carry passengers and cargo in bulk to make it economical for those expensive jump drives.TL;DR, having FTL equipped ships is actually an important part of the game and does need to be thought about, because FTL isn't the cheapest of commodities. Public transportation is a few big ships, usually with a good sized escort to ward off lesser pirates.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong

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