blogs_blog_241

Excuse me? That's absolutely ridicolous. I've lived in a tall building in my entire life and I've never-- YAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaahg...

 

Stupidity aside, I'm not entirely sure what this is about, as I'm not that involved with the story forum at all.

Its choice of members is repulsive.

I know this is BZP and stuff, but really, ET, that's just... mean.

 

And Dorek... ú_ù

 

Guys, I don't see what's so wrong with it really, it's not like this was some conspiration. It was Greg's choice after all.

Dorek, get off of Smith Tower! It's not worth it!

 

It's only 462 feet tall. That won't do the trick! Go for the Columbia Center! It's 932 feet tall!

 

But seriously, calm down. It'll work out the bugs. Give 'em time.

Yeah dude. Even I don't mind the concept.

Its choice of members is repulsive.

Seconded.

Its choice of members is repulsive.

Seconded.

Thirded.

The whole idea is horrible horrible.

Also, why do The Chronicler and the KJ, fan-made e-magazines need to have to much influence.

Dorek, get off of Smith Tower! It's not worth it!

 

It's only 462 feet tall. That won't do the trick! Go for the Columbia Center! It's 932 feet tall!

 

But seriously, calm down. It'll work out the bugs. Give 'em time.

Forget that. Sears Willis (-__-") Tower all the way!

 

[Lol I don't even know what this entry is about.]

Laka

Fourthded!

Yeah dude. Even I don't mind the concept.

I suppose the concept could be good if worked right, but I feel like they failed entirely in the execution of it, and were waaaaay too hasty in revealing it.

 

Dorek, get off of Smith Tower! It's not worth it!

 

It's only 462 feet tall. That won't do the trick! Go for the Columbia Center! It's 932 feet tall!

 

But seriously, calm down. It'll work out the bugs. Give 'em time.

Forget that. Sears Willis (-__-") Tower all the way!

 

[Lol I don't even know what this entry is about.]

Laka

There there, Laka. I don't expect you to. *patpat*

 

Also be like Swert and gimme wikipedialink kthxbai >=(

See, when naughty nOObs start flamy, spammy, five-page-long arguments in the OGD over canonization, eventually a police force is required.

 

What has humanity become...

Its choice of members is repulsive.

Seconded.

Thirded.

The whole idea is horrible horrible.

Also, why do The Chronicler and the KJ, fan-made e-magazines need to have to much influence.

 

When you think of it, they're probably some of the few who are, in a way, dedicated enough to keep track of the actual story itself, and know the canon properly. Generally, knowledgeable people in a field you're looking to hire for, are those who you'd hire -- I wouldn't want a plumber working as an electrical engineer, nor would I want an electrical engineer with a short, un-detailed resume over someone who has worked on things in the field, and has shown themself to fall through with deadlines and putting forth a quality work.

 

I don't read the e-magazines, really, but it's actually fairly logical that K-J, T-C, BS01, RK's and such staff are associated in some way. They're qualified to be there, and have done work in the past, which shows that they can fall through if, say, a contest needs to be written up or such. Plus, they're rather story-oriented, such as this group. To me, it makes sense that they're involved -- some normal members who lack an affiliation with the magazines were also selected (Three on these e-zine teams, and three not affiliated with them, and two staff of the forum, along with a BS01 staff member).

 

Of course, personally, I never cared for the concept of canonizing everything, or a bucketload of ideas that just don't settle down well, creatively. However, it's an inevitability that members will go to Greg, or others who hold weight in terms of word with him, to try and get their own ideas into the story. This streamlines the suggestions down, allows community input, and allows a lot of ideas to not just be read, hit the scrapper and have wasted someone's time in the long run. Essentially, I see it as a system to try and save time and work for others; it makes sense to me, in that respect.

 

No one needs to love it, but if you don't like ideas they publish and make canon, then go make up your own. If a canonized instance in a fictional toyline makes one cringe in anger, and gives them a delusion that they are allowed to blow up, insult, or potentially hurt the feelings of others -- quite frankly, you'll need to re-prioritize things. People come before things, let's not throw derogatory terms around in respects to the members who have offered up free time to assist in a project they have interest in.

 

Sure, personally, I don't mind it -- it's going to happen, it'll probably stick around, and it has a positive effect on the inevitable. Of course, I'll probably disagree with things they choose to canonize here and there, but the simple fact that I can ignore it as being canon is an option, and to those creative writers and individuals who wish not to change and alter the canon in any way, well, stuff like this happens. Personally, on terms of the concept, I don't see a problem with people wanting to give up free time to volunteer on a website.

 

A bit wordy, possibly long-winded from me, but I felt that I should say something in regards to the whole-new system, given some of the comments I've read over, which really give me a frowny face. =/

 

Of course, everyone's free to an opinion, negative or otherwise, but when stating an opinion... it'd be the least anyone could do, to at least try and come off as not... well, rude. Being kind, respectful and thoughtful, even on the internet, are some traits that are fairly important in communication. Some people do take things said on the internet as downright serious, and if one says "You suck" instead of, say, being a bit supportive and at least putting in a thought of "Well, personally I don't find them all qualified right now... but, people do improve over time, and who knows? Maybe I'll end up incorrect," the person may actually feel... hurt, even if it's minor, it's still not a crutch one should apply to someone else.

 

 

And that's just all my opinion, and what I had to say. 'Cuz saying "These guys all suck" to a group of volunteers on a children's toysite is a bit... well, why say it, when all it'll do is offend? =|

'Cuz saying "These guys all suck" to a group of volunteers on a children's toysite is a bit... well, why say it, when all it'll do is offend? =|

This.

One point I would add to Spink's comment -- "they" won't be choosing to canonize anything. I will. BSS does not have the authority to do canonizations.

 

There seems to be this mistaken impression that the BSS is suddenly going to mean lots more canonization or lots more canonization suggestions. I can say a definite no to the former, and as for the latter, I was already buried in canonization suggestions. I see no reason there will be less or more as a result of this. If you have an issue with that, you need to take it up with your fellow BZPers who are desperate to get something in story as opposed to the BSS people ... they have no control over who makes suggestions or how many they receive.

 

And as I pointed out in another topic, this is what LEGO Company wants. They want fan involvement in story. That was mandated late last year, and this is one of the ways we are choosing to execute it, and probably the least intrusive way.

Its choice of members is repulsive.

Seconded.

Thirded.

Sadface...

 

I'm a cool guy, though.

 

I thought....

 

You're reacting in the same way I would have, though. It'd feel like I had no control over what would be canon and it'd all go down the drain. But I promise you, it won't. Anyone who's worried can just throw me a PM, tell me what they want happening and I can pass it along. I understand all the concerns here entirely. I've been with the story since 2001, a member since 2003 and I love the good old days of Bionicle, before 'Teridax' and The All American Rejects. I get you entirely with that. So I'm gonna be 'fighting your corner' if you like. I'm on your sideeeee. I always was one of those 'STOP CANONIZING STUFF' people. Which doesn't mean that I'm going to automatically be against a good idea, but I'm going to be speaking against additions which I, and probably the majority of 'veteran fans', see as silly.

 

- Tilius

I was amused by those who said "the sky is falling" when TLC announced the suspension of BIONICLE production, but now I see just how right they all were.

 

If they really wanted "fan involvement" in the storyline then they would have created some sort of "lottery-selected rotating-membership council for input" instead of anointing a bunch of insiders.

~

Åusår

Tilius, I'm overjoyed that you're part of it.

 

It's the lack of a balance of different people that I don't like.

One point I would add to Spink's comment -- "they" won't be choosing to canonize anything. I will. BSS does not have the authority to do canonizations.

 

Well, I more meant having a hand in filtering out the suggestions and such, not that the individuals involved will canonize things, but that they'd be the people who would look at a suggestion, and think of whether or not to send it along to potentially become something in the official line. Of course, there's always the chance that I may have misinterpreted what the group actually does, but that's basically what I drew from it. If I did misinterpret, then whoops on my end, I kinda did skim over the bulleted points of what they'd be doing... given, studying aerospace from an online text does turn one into a bit of a lazy-potato when it comes to reading other things right after. ^^;;

 

Guess I could've worded it a bit more clearly, in my green text-wall, but I didn't really want to drag on that particular comment for too long.

ET -- If you have an issue with the membership, then you should take it up with Nuhrii or Bonesiii. If there are legitimate reasons people should not be on the team, bring them up.

 

Each segment of the team had one person who made recommendations for who they thought should be on it from their area, with the exception of the basic BZP segment, which came in part from my recommendations to Nuhrii and his back to me. There were names I did a little bit of a double-take on, but let go through because I don't want it to be a team of yes-men.

 

Again, if you know some substantial reason someone cannot or should not serve, you should address it with the team leaders. If it's not based on anything but personal dislike, then that is different and probably not worth mentioning.

Tilius, I'm overjoyed that you're part of it.

That's alright then.

 

There were names I did a little bit of a double-take on, but let go through because I don't want it to be a team of yes-men.

 

- Tilius

Well with the exception of one person, it does look like a team of yes-men. And people who are full of ulterior, hidden motives - they agreed just to get their own initiatives pushed through.

Wow. I totally didn't expect this to turn into a debate, it was just a spur of the moment "hey I don't like this" kind thing >>. Anyhoo, might as well address some stuff.

I was amused by those who said "the sky is falling" when TLC announced the suspension of BIONICLE production, but now I see just how right they all were.

 

If they really wanted "fan involvement" in the storyline then they would have created some sort of "lottery-selected rotating-membership council for input" instead of anointing a bunch of insiders.

~

Åusår

 

Well with the exception of one person, it does look like a team of yes-men. And people who are full of ulterior, hidden motives - they agreed just to get their own initiatives pushed through.

These are basically what I agree with.

 

Cutting down on the fan suggestions is FANTASTIC; that's pretty much the only aspect of the team I like. A filter, in essence, for some of the more outlandish and ridiculous ideas that pop up from time to time. That's genius, and quite frankly, about time.

 

One of the issues I have, though, is the nature of the "filter" that this is going to be. I understand that a lot of these guys are smart, and know a stupid suggestion from one with merit. My worry is that they will be a little too hesitant to accept and too quick to reject. There have been some silly suggestions thrown out, and with this team, that suggestion rate is probably going to increase exponentially. With a lot of stupid suggestions coming their way, they're going to have to reject a lot of them. I'm afraid that, in the end, they're going to mechanically reject something that has potential, but isn't worked just right, discouraging people from sending in suggestions. This is something I don't have a problem with at all; I'm not a fan of all the random trivia that pops up as a result of canonizing. However, if (an if, but a plausible one) this happens, that defeats the entire purpose of the team. It's supposed to work with the members, rather than being an inflexible barrier.

 

Which brings me to my complaint about the team choice itself. ET and Ausar have hit it right on the money. I'm not going to name names, but a common theme I'm noticing are self aggrandizing tendencies. I personally don't feel that these people are right for the job, and Ausars idea of a rotating council is a pretty good one.

Perhaps some sort of 'election' could happen, then. A random lottery selection of people doing this wouldn't quite work, because then we might end up with people who aren't going to do the work. But an election to appoint new members, or replace old ones, could be beneficial to the community - there's no denying that.

 

I really think we should just see how it goes for now, but I've felt the same as you feel about these sorts of things in the past - the EM, for example. Anyone who's worried about this new team or feels their voice isn't going to be heard can PM me (or any other member of the squad, for that matter) at any time, and I can pass on these concerns, as long as they're constructive and with an aim to improve rather than destroy. But the folk commenting here are an intelligent bunch, so there's no worries about that.

 

And we're really going to give suggestions a fair chance, as ridiculous as they are. As you say, they might just be ideas which are good, but haven't quite been developed enough yet. Heck, if we present an idea to Greg and he says no, I'm sure if at least one of us feels it's a good idea we'll try and convince him to accept it, or change it to fit in with the story. We're working for the fans and with the fans - the moment this becomes a tier system where members of the Story Squad behave as if 'above' the fan base and have a right to craft a story to suit their own tastes is the moment I get out of there. Or do my best to fix it. Being part of this squad is a privilege, not a right, and this is the involvement of the entire fanbase, not just selected 9 members.

 

I'm not a yes man, I want to get things done and do things that are gonna please the fanbase. Not everybody is going to be happy with every decision made, naturally, but we're definitely not going to be dismissive and ignore ideas that could be great with a bit of development, or label critics 'haters' and ignore everything they have to say. Its the haters that often are the most constructive.

 

I've been here almost 7 years. I enjoyed the good old days, I understand what many people must be feeling, but I want these people to talk to us and be constructive so we can get them involved as much as possible. As I say, this is the involvement of the entire fanbase, not just the majority, not just the 9 selected members - everybody. It has to be like that and stay like that.

 

I'd also like to add that the acronym of 'SS' is perhaps one of the worst possible acronyms and doesn't particularly help the reputation of the squad.

 

But I love allllll you guys who do big long posts and have nice strong opinions and care lots about what happens. I've always said that the proper fans aren't the ones who've bought all the sets, read all the books, or mindlessly lapped up every aspect of the Bionicle brand, but one who cares enough to criticize constructively. And look at you all now, quite constructively and (to some extent) justifiably criticizing the Story Squad. You all care so much. I love that. Really, I do.

 

Ignore our reputations - including mine (please!) - because personal opinion is, hopefully, not going to come into our work too much. Logic, reason, and knowledge of the Bionicle storyline are the key factors - we're making educated decisions, not really fulfilling our own agendas. If, in a few weeks time, you haven't been swayed then come have a good old rant at us and we'll buck our ideas up. Really, Greg still gets the final say, so we're not going to be making it radically different, just helping out Greg and improving the level of fan involvement - not in that we have 9 members being involved in building the story, but in that we have 9 'vessels' to send up popular and unpopular opinion. Minorities included.

 

Just don't worry about it. I care what you guys think about the story, and I'm sure the rest of the team do too. Give us a while to get going, then come tell us what we should be doing and why and we can all have a nice big chat and a cup of tea.

 

- Tilius

Wow. I totally didn't expect this to turn into a debate, it was just a spur of the moment "hey I don't like this" kind thing >>. Anyhoo, might as well address some stuff.

I was amused by those who said "the sky is falling" when TLC announced the suspension of BIONICLE production, but now I see just how right they all were.

 

If they really wanted "fan involvement" in the storyline then they would have created some sort of "lottery-selected rotating-membership council for input" instead of anointing a bunch of insiders.

~

Åusår

 

Well with the exception of one person, it does look like a team of yes-men. And people who are full of ulterior, hidden motives - they agreed just to get their own initiatives pushed through.

These are basically what I agree with.

The only way you could know what ET said (I bolded it) is if you were telepathic and prophetic. As far as insiders goes, this is why I gave the BZPower staff in general, who are not as active in S&T, a chance to be a part of the team. I only got two volunteers by the proposal, both of whom were okay with either being chosen, so I flipped a coin, and Sisen was chosen. In addition, we purposefully chose several non-staff members, just BZPers in general, so that this claim could especially not be said (so it's kind of strange that it's being said anyways ).

 

As for yes-men, it sounds a little, Dorek -- just being frank from what I have seen of your reactions to proposals in general -- as if what you're really saying is that we're not all no-men. I am not a yes-man, and I don't see that from anyone else on the team either. We are not as quick to make snap "no" judgements as some, but isn't that, objectively, a good thing? We need to be impartial; that's the whole point.

 

This is not meant as an insult towards you. I respect your opinions and frankly, if BS01 had chosen to majorly participate, I would have requested you be on the team. But that did not happen, so that is out of my hands. (This is why I am very glad Tilius is on the team; though I often disagree with him, I strongly respect his opinions and feel we do need people who are willing to focus on the possible cons of an idea perhaps more than others.)

 

Also, you guys need to keep in mind that this team would fail if we did not have people willing to do the work; thus a big reason for who was chosen was those that have demonstrated experience (for the reps of the major story groups, that is). So that, fact makes the "insider" charge difficult to get around anyways.

 

In short, I think it's unfair to lob paranoid accusations at us before you have even given us a chance. Is it not? (Speaking more to Ausar and a few others here; I have discussed this with ET mostly to my satisfaction already.)

 

 

Cutting down on the fan suggestions is FANTASTIC; that's pretty much the only aspect of the team I like.

What about the poll part? Making sure that fan suggestions actually do represent "fans" not just one fan? Not to mention the attractiveness of making Greg's job easier, since he has been so flooded lately.

 

A filter, in essence, for some of the more outlandish and ridiculous ideas that pop up from time to time. That's genius, and quite frankly, about time.

 

One of the issues I have, though, is the nature of the "filter" that this is going to be. I understand that a lot of these guys are smart, and know a stupid suggestion from one with merit. My worry is that they will be a little too hesitant to accept and too quick to reject.

Well, of course that is a valid concern, but that is why all decisions will be announced publicly, and all things we (and Greg) agree are worth considering will be polled. Any mistakes we make will have fair chance to be pointed out by anybody, whether on or off the team.

 

There have been some silly suggestions thrown out, and with this team, that suggestion rate is probably going to increase exponentially. With a lot of stupid suggestions coming their way, they're going to have to reject a lot of them. I'm afraid that, in the end, they're going to mechanically reject something that has potential, but isn't worked just right, discouraging people from sending in suggestions.

If that ever becomes an issue, I would label that burnout, and then the possibility of cycling members would be looked at. It's way too early to think about that at this point, and besides, the concern would be multiplicitously more true if it was all on Greg's shoulders.

 

This is something I don't have a problem with at all; I'm not a fan of all the random trivia that pops up as a result of canonizing.

Just to be clear, although I doubt for you I truly need to say this but for the sake of anybody reading, that is the sort of preferential bias this team will need to avoid.

 

However, if (an if, but a plausible one) this happens, that defeats the entire purpose of the team. It's supposed to work with the members, rather than being an inflexible barrier.

 

Which brings me to my complaint about the team choice itself. ET and Ausar have hit it right on the money. I'm not going to name names, but a common theme I'm noticing are self aggrandizing tendencies. I personally don't feel that these people are right for the job, and Ausars idea of a rotating council is a pretty good one.

Well, that is your character judgement of other people. I believe in seeing through people, but also giving everybody the benefit of the doubt, and like I've been saying, keeping Unity in mind. We have all made mistakes, you, ET, Ausar, and others criticizing the team all included, because we are all fallible humans. And that would be just as much an issue no matter who is on the team -- we ALL have good reasons not to do it, just as Greg himself makes mistakes. So if you're looking for perfection from an author, a team of "secretaries" (heh), or from fans in general, sorry, you're going to be disappointed every time.

 

The key is that we all can (and SHOULD) rise above our personal flaws and try at all times to do the right thing. I believe all of those who are on the team are capable of it and showcase it often. I'm not saying we won't make mistakes, but that is why there are systems of accountability built into how we are doing this.

 

I hope this has made my view on this clear.

Polls are good too, but I haven't been told much about them. Are we going to have a poll for EVERYTHING? Cuz there's certain problems with that. Take the Naho mask issue; if one such suggestion like that is accepted, but put to a poll to make fair, we'd end up with a looooot of polls, because there are tons and tons of Kanohi.

 

And in the end, you don't believe that they're "yes-men", and I do XP. Not really an opinion of mine that's going to change.

I'd also like to add that the acronym of 'SS' is perhaps one of the worst possible acronyms and doesn't particularly help the reputation of the squad.

Might I generously suggest 'BSSquad' as a viable acronym alternative.

 

Ausar's idea of a rotating council is a pretty good one.

If it worked for Mahri Nui, then it can work anywhere, even for the BIONICLE Story Squad.

 

In short, I think it's unfair to lob paranoid accusations at us before you have even given us a chance. Is it not? (Speaking more to Ausar and a few others here; I have discussed this with ET mostly to my satisfaction already.)

I'm not lobbing anything, I simply made a valid observation based upon the information given, and it seems I'm not the only one who saw this as just another moment for a small group of well-connected individuals to grandstand. I will however admit that I may have painted the entire group with the broad stroke of a brush better suited to specific members than others.

~

Åusår