What do they do with the old Heroes?

[The 1st Shadow]

Title says it all. What do you think the Hero Factory does with some of the older heroes from when Mr. Makuro first created the Factory?On a side note, what do you think they do with the bodies of Heroes that were destroyed while on missions and such? Are they thrown into the junkyard, given a proper burial service, or are they melted down and used to make new Heroes? That last one is kinda disturbing, I will admit...Thoughts?

[Klak]

I...haven't really thought of this. Then again, I only know so much about Hero Factory.The last one seems like Fridge horror though O.o

[Dralcax]

I think they might recycle them.

[Aanchir]

I'm not sure what is done with old Heroes, but I would assume they stay in commission and get repaired regularly, or possibly if they're too jaded to go on missions any longer they can receive desk jobs at the factory.As for "killed" heroes, no idea how they're disposed of. It's not something we'll likely ever see in the series given how dark it could be and how difficult it would be to treat the issue with the appropriate dignity.

[Lyichir]

I'm not sure what is done with old Heroes, but I would assume they stay in commission and get repaired regularly, or possibly if they're too jaded to go on missions any longer they can receive desk jobs at the factory.As for "killed" heroes, no idea how they're disposed of. It's not something we'll likely ever see in the series given how dark it could be and how difficult it would be to treat the issue with the appropriate dignity.

There's also upgrades. It's been pretty much established that a hero can be completely reassembled so long as their core is still intact and has a charge.It was also stated that heroes whose cores lose power can receive a new core. Even though the original hero is technically "dead", their hero body can be reused. I'm not sure what that would mean for heroes whose bodies and cores have been damaged beyond repair, though.

[Toa Zaz]

I'd imagine they'd upgrade old heroes to keep them up-to-date and functioning, so being obsolete wouldn't likely be an issue. The death thing is kind of irrelevant, though, as Lego would never depict a Hero actually being killed.

[Meiko]

They eat their souls out and live off of the others' scrap metal. No.But seriously, I assume they either upgrade the heroes, or let the heroes retire from the factory. I'm sure it's partially the hero's choice on what they do.

[The 1st Shadow]

I'd assume you're right on the concept of "showing heroes get killed being too dark." Makes sense. But it still interests me.But what about the possibility of their "brains" being too old to be upgraded? Think about some really old computers that new software just doesn't work on because it's too old to recognize it? Isn't it possible that some of the oldest heroes just weren't "compatible" with the more recent upgrades? What about them? Just given desk jobs at the Factory? Kept around as consultants? Hard to say...

[Toa Zaz]

Huh. Turns out, in the preview for one of the Hero Factory books, it mentions heroes being "decommisioned." Not sure whether or not these books are totally canon, though...

[The 1st Shadow]

Huh. Turns out, in the preview for one of the Hero Factory books, it mentions heroes being "decommisioned." Not sure whether or not these books are totally canon, though...

I'm starting to question the canonicity of the new books, since the information on Alpha 1's past doesn't add up to the confirmed source material we've had over the last 2 years. But I assume it means they are just shut down or retired from Hero work.

[fishers64]

The metal parts I imagine are melted down and can be used again, but the quaza is a one-use deal. Probably, however, if the body is damaged, the core can just be transferred.Besides, if Stormer really was part of the first batch of Heroes, I don't think the factory has ran into that problem yet. Maybe Mr. Makuro has thought up a solution that we don't know about.

Edited August 10, 2012 by fishers64

[Lyichir]

I'd assume you're right on the concept of "showing heroes get killed being too dark." Makes sense. But it still interests me.But what about the possibility of their "brains" being too old to be upgraded? Think about some really old computers that new software just doesn't work on because it's too old to recognize it? Isn't it possible that some of the oldest heroes just weren't "compatible" with the more recent upgrades? What about them? Just given desk jobs at the Factory? Kept around as consultants? Hard to say...

The "brains" issue is almost irrelevant. It's suggested that Heroes and their personalities are imbued solely by their quaza core, which essentially houses their "soul". Even though they're robots, there's more than just a computerized brain controlling them, and therefore their mental capacities are never really in need of upgrades. Most upgrades have been focused on giving greater capability and responsivity to heroes, so that these robot "souls" can better react to any issues placed in their way..

[fishers64]

I'd assume you're right on the concept of "showing heroes get killed being too dark." Makes sense. But it still interests me.But what about the possibility of their "brains" being too old to be upgraded? Think about some really old computers that new software just doesn't work on because it's too old to recognize it? Isn't it possible that some of the oldest heroes just weren't "compatible" with the more recent upgrades? What about them? Just given desk jobs at the Factory? Kept around as consultants? Hard to say...

The "brains" issue is almost irrelevant. It's suggested that Heroes and their personalities are imbued solely by their quaza core, which essentially houses their "soul". Even though they're robots, there's more than just a computerized brain controlling them, and therefore their mental capacities are never really in need of upgrades. Most upgrades have been focused on giving greater capability and responsivity to heroes, so that these robot "souls" can better react to any issues placed in their way..

Meaning that the heroes could be upgraded indefinitely unless the quaza degenerated or was damaged? Edited August 15, 2012 by fishers64

[bonesiii]

Old ("living") heroes probably just become citizens, instructors, etc.

[fishers64]

Old ("living") heroes probably just become citizens, instructors, etc.

But that doesn't make any sense, though. The "citizens" of Hero Factory don't have quaza cores, and who would the older heroes instruct? I got the impression that most Hero instruction took place by machine in the training sphere or by the Heroes currently in operation (Stormer teaching Furno, for example).

[bonesiii]

Wasn't that one villain said to be an instructor?And isn't it rather harsh to basically kill heroes because they are, to quote a Twilight Zone episode, "Obsolete"?I don't recall hearing that about the cores, but the citizens have to be powered by something, right? They could just rebuild them enough to give them whatever the citizens use.

[avak3]

I am going to have to say they retire them, like a hero retimerent home.

[Lyichir]

Wasn't that one villain said to be an instructor?And isn't it rather harsh to basically kill heroes because they are, to quote a Twilight Zone episode, "Obsolete"?I don't recall hearing that about the cores, but the citizens have to be powered by something, right? They could just rebuild them enough to give them whatever the citizens use.

They don't even need to do that. There's no reason a retired Hero couldn't keep their core even though they're no longer active duty. It'd probably be simple enough for a home core charger to be installed for these veterans. I'd reckon the U.S. saying "Once a Marine, always a Marine" could probably apply to Heroes, too.

[fishers64]

Wasn't that one villain said to be an instructor?And isn't it rather harsh to basically kill heroes because they are, to quote a Twilight Zone episode, "Obsolete"?I don't recall hearing that about the cores, but the citizens have to be powered by something, right? They could just rebuild them enough to give them whatever the citizens use.

Yes, but I think the Witch Doctor wasn't a Hero to begin with - don't recall anywhere that he actually was one. Yes, but I don't think the Hero Factory has had to deal with this problem yet. There is evidence to suggest that the Factory hasn't been around for very long - no traditions, no walls of history - and that previous Heroes before Stormer had been killed by villains (or turned evil).Mr. Makuro was still "selling" his new models to the general population (the Evo/Nex scene) and took some time out to explain how Stormer was special to Zib at the begining of the first HF episode, as if his previous models hadn't done so great. I don't think the Hero Factory has "killing obsolete Heroes" as a long term plan either (if they have one?), just keep on upgrading. It's also possible that a quaza core can only be charged with energy so many times before it wears out and fails. I remember from Furno's bio a line about a "final core charge" which is supposed to be really powerful. But maybe after that they can't be charged again and eventually they run out of energy and "die".It has been said that the Hero Core contains the essence of the Hero - his or her personality, so to speak. Remove that to try to rebuild them into citizens and they won't be quite the same being anymore. It's debateable whether the "personality" component could be transmitted from the core to the citizens' power source. There's likely a reason why the Heroes have the core and not what the citizens are powered by - more efficient or something - which would likely preclude an easy transition/rebuild.

[bonesiii]

I see. So in other words, they may simply have "natural lifespans", in terms of the maximum limits of their designs?And yeah, I didn't think the Witch Doctor was a hero, I just meant that it shows that sort of job is possible, and implies heroes attend some kind of instruction, and it would make sense for old heroes to teach them.

[fishers64]

I see. So in other words, they may simply have "natural lifespans", in terms of the maximum limits of their designs?And yeah, I didn't think the Witch Doctor was a hero, I just meant that it shows that sort of job is possible, and implies heroes attend some kind of instruction, and it would make sense for old heroes to teach them.

Yes, that's what I meant. That is, if there is a time span between "no longer useful for fighting villains" and "death." If they die (end functioning...).

[Aanchir]

Wasn't that one villain said to be an instructor?And isn't it rather harsh to basically kill heroes because they are, to quote a Twilight Zone episode, "Obsolete"?I don't recall hearing that about the cores, but the citizens have to be powered by something, right? They could just rebuild them enough to give them whatever the citizens use.

Yes, but I think the Witch Doctor wasn't a Hero to begin with - don't recall anywhere that he actually was one.

Yeah, he was never a Hero. If he were, then he would have had a Quaza core, and it was his reckless desire for a Quaza core of his own that got him fired from the Hero Factory in the first place.

Yes, but I don't think the Hero Factory has had to deal with this problem yet. There is evidence to suggest that the Factory hasn't been around for very long - no traditions, no walls of history - and that previous Heroes before Stormer had been killed by villains (or turned evil). Mr. Makuro was still "selling" his new models to the general population (the Evo/Nex scene) and took some time out to explain how Stormer was special to Zib at the begining of the first HF episode, as if his previous models hadn't done so great. I don't think the Hero Factory has "killing obsolete Heroes" as a long term plan either (if they have one?), just keep on upgrading.

Well, the Hero Factory has been around for 100 years according to the Hero Factory promotional magazine, but the early history of the Hero Factory hasn't been very thoroughly explored. Also, given that Akiyama Makuro-- a civilian robot who has no Quaza core of his own-- has been active since he founded the factory, I see no reason to think that the longevity of the Heroes produced by the factory is any less. If a Hero is "killed" in the line of duty, then its lifespan might be cut short, but otherwise I imagine the factory is equipped to repair any non-fatal injuries as well as mission-related wear and tear.As for older Heroes becoming obsolete, I don't foresee that happening since the upgrade process seems compatible with all Heroes. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason it took 100 years for upgrades to be introduced was a desire to ensure that all Heroes built with the older model were able to be upgraded, so as not to become obsolete. The parallels to the LEGO system shouldn't be ignored-- no decision that makes older products obsolete is made lightly, and the intent is for the products to have permanent usefulness and value.

It's also possible that a quaza core can only be charged with energy so many times before it wears out and fails. I remember from Furno's bio a line about a "final core charge" which is supposed to be really powerful. But maybe after that they can't be charged again and eventually they run out of energy and "die".

The "Final core charge" referenced in Furno's bio is just the last core charge a rookie Hero receives before becoming a full-fledged Hero. And as I understand it, it's not "final" in that the hero will never get another core charge, but rather in that rookie Heroes get increasingly-powerful core charges as they make their way to becoming full-fledged Heroes. After the final, largest charge, I imagine that as their cores run down they are simply recharged to maximum capacity with whatever size charge is necessary.

It has been said that the Hero Core contains the essence of the Hero - his or her personality, so to speak. Remove that to try to rebuild them into citizens and they won't be quite the same being anymore. It's debateable whether the "personality" component could be transmitted from the core to the citizens' power source. There's likely a reason why the Heroes have the core and not what the citizens are powered by - more efficient or something - which would likely preclude an easy transition/rebuild.

Well, it's hard to say for sure, but I'm pretty certain you're correct in that any Hero who is decommissioned by the Hero Factory would need to keep his or her Quaza core, or have their consciousness somehow transferred to some kind of civilian personality processor.The point of a Quaza core seems to be to allow for a Hero to be repaired and upgraded indefinitely without changing his or her personality. Thus even if the Hero's hardware has to be upgraded or even completely replaced, the Hero Core keeps that Hero's identity intact. By tying the identity to the Hero Core, Hero Factory heroes can presumably be placed in high-risk situations more safely than a civilian 'bot, but the apparent consequence of this would be that a Hero would have to keep their Hero Core permanently charged. Then again, who's to say the civilian life would require the core to be charged as regularly as the fast-paced life of a Hero? Perhaps an annual core recharge is all that would be necessary, which shouldn't be any more of a burden to decommissioned Heroes than an annual medical checkup is to us humans.On a side note, a feature in a 2011 LEGO Club Magazine mentioned that the upgrade included "New compact Hero Cores unaffected by extreme temperature change and delivering 40% more power!" It's hard to say whether this is actual story information (it certainly doesn't contradict anything we know) or just a way of promoting the new Hero Cores in the sets. Most likely it's either both options or the first option only.If it is a story detail, then my guess is either that core-to-core personality transfer is possible, or the actual Quaza core (a Quaza-stone cylinder as shown in the TV series) stays unchanged during an upgrade and it's the "cover" shown in the series which is changed, and newer styles of cover can interface better with the Quaza-stone inside to deliver power to the Hero. If core-to-core personality transfers are possible then that greatly increases the likelihood that a civilian personality processor could carry a Hero's consciousness.On a side note, one thing that mustn't be forgotten is that Von Ness had a Hero Core, while Von Nebula, by all appearances, did not. Since Von Nebula seemed to carry Von Ness's personality and desire for revenge, it seems apparent that somehow a Hero can have their core removed (or at least, let it run dry) without losing their personality entirely. However, it's also possible that a Hero's powerful sense of justice is somehow tied to their Hero Core, in which case the loss of his Hero Core could have been tied to how easily Von Ness turned to villainy... in any event, I've always thought Von Ness's transformation from a cowardly Hero into an ambitious villain would be a great fan-fiction to write, since it was explored in so little detail in the official story.

[Makuta DUSt]

Well, Thresher retired and I believe he appeared at the 2.0 conference.Unless the animators just got lazy and reuses an old model.

[The 1st Shadow]

If it is a story detail, then my guess is either that core-to-core personality transfer is possible, or the actual Quaza core (a Quaza-stone cylinder as shown in the TV series) stays unchanged during an upgrade and it's the "cover" shown in the series which is changed, and newer styles of cover can interface better with the Quaza-stone inside to deliver power to the Hero. If core-to-core personality transfers are possible then that greatly increases the likelihood that a civilian personality processor could carry a Hero's consciousness.On a side note, one thing that mustn't be forgotten is that Von Ness had a Hero Core, while Von Nebula, by all appearances, did not. Since Von Nebula seemed to carry Von Ness's personality and desire for revenge, it seems apparent that somehow a Hero can have their core removed (or at least, let it run dry) without losing their personality entirely. However, it's also possible that a Hero's powerful sense of justice is somehow tied to their Hero Core, in which case the loss of his Hero Core could have been tied to how easily Von Ness turned to villainy... in any event, I've always thought Von Ness's transformation from a cowardly Hero into an ambitious villain would be a great fan-fiction to write, since it was explored in so little detail in the official story.

I'd always wondered about core-to-core transfers, as well. But I remember something about the purity of the individual cores determines the personality of the Hero. That's why Stormer and later Furno were "destined for greatness"--because their cores were more pure than others. Or something like that. So to transfer a Hero's personality to another core, the second core would have to have an equal purity to the original. It's never really been officially discussed how the cores work, I don't think, so I'm just guessing that's how it would work, if it can be done.As for Nebula, I've also wondered that. A lot. Initially, I'd theorized that he might have found a way to remove his core, yet keep his memories and personality intact. But after reading that part about the core purity, I now think it may be that when he rebuilt himself, he installed some sort of internal generator that constantly charges his core and keeps him going. It would be cool to know how he really did it, though.

[Athmos]

Well, seeing how they are robots...... Melted down and reused. After a small burial service, of course.

[Aanchir]

Well, Thresher retired and I believe he appeared at the 2.0 conference.Unless the animators just got lazy and reuses an old model.

Since Von Ness also appeared at that conference, I think it's a certainty that the animators were just re-using character models. I wouldn't necessarily call it laziness, since reusing character models is normal in CGI cartoons and even in some non-CGI cartoons (just watch several episodes of Spongebob and see how many generic fish get repeated between various crowd scenes), but since Von Ness and Thresher were both major characters in the 2010 episodes rather than background characters I wish they had at least recolored them to prevent that kind of confusion.

[The 1st Shadow]

Actually, the Von Ness model appeared thrice during Ordeal of Fire. One time, it was the original, the second time, it was grey, and at the end (I think) it was red. A red Von Ness appeared at least once.As for Thresher, I don't think he's retired. But we can definitely say for sure that he's getting old.

Edited August 24, 2012 by ~The 1st Shadow~