feminist here. the backlash to that scene is absolutely ridiculous and those partaking in it have no regard for the concept of "context".

feminist here. the backlash to that scene is absolutely ridiculous and those partaking in it have no regard for the concept of "context".

Agreed. I should also point out that I have no problem with the feminist movement as a whole. It's when stuff like this happens that makes me want to throw up though.

I lack context... what movie is this?

Avengers: Age of Ultron.

Hmm? Okay, so no real context here, but from my understanding feminism is about choice. Anyone should be free to choose to want kids or a more traditional family setting if that's what they want. If they don't want those things, that's fine too. What you are describing (if I'm taking this correctly; backlash for a woman mourning that she can't have children) isn't feminism. Feminism, from my understanding, is about equality between genders and freedom of a lifestyle choice, hopefully without any sociological pressures. What you appear to be describing sounds like a sociological pressure dressed as feminism.

Sorry if I'm off the mark, limited context and all.

Sometimes it's pointless to try and please people. These people are just using feminism as an excuse to complain about something that has no impact on life as we know it. Sadly some uninformed people took this stuff seriously and made an issue about it. It's fun to watch people have the irony completely fly over their heads.

Hmm? Okay, so no real context here, but from my understanding feminism is about choice. Anyone should be free to choose to want kids or a more traditional family setting if that's what they want. If they don't want those things, that's fine too. What you are describing (if I'm taking this correctly; backlash for a woman mourning that she can't have children) isn't feminism. Feminism, from my understanding, is about equality between genders and freedom of a lifestyle choice, hopefully without any sociological pressures. What you appear to be describing sounds like a sociological pressure dressed as feminism.

 

Sorry if I'm off the mark, limited context and all.

you're pretty much spot-on with your definition of feminism.

unfortunately, the particular feminists reacting poorly to this didn't seem to get the memo. either that or they go by the tumblr definition of the term.

Ah, tumblr definitions. Fun.

Some of the reactions to this particular debacle were incredibly immature and hateful, and would not be appropriate in any context, let alone this one. Really disappointed.

I think it was because after explaining that she can't have kids she said something like "still think you're the only monster here?" and that makes it sound like it's the worst thing in the world regardless of her own personal situation. Although I'm pretty sure she was referring to the fact that she's a unfeeling assassin?

I think the reaction is out of proportion too, but there are definitely issues with how she was written, yeah. Just not completely awful. I'm also on the side of "it was just that big a deal to her, it's not implied that this is what Joss thinks all women are like." The whole backlash is just a front for people who don't like Joss Whedon and are really passionate about Black Widow and how poorly she's treated in the franchise. When you're writing a (basically) token character, you really need to be careful about what your writing can imply and how you ease them into new arcs. I thought everything about the film was perfect, but you can see how it can look to a loooot of people like they just shoved Natasha and Bruce into a thing for the sake of drama and then just started pumping cliches in.

Then again, there are people complaining that there were too many quips. In a comicbook movie. About superheros. With a child audience in mind. With a notoriously witty cast of characters. Some people just really hate fun.

I've not seen Age of Ultron but from what I've seen of the backlash ... I don't know what to think.
 
There's a lot of awareness and sensitivity when it comes to media consumption, and looking as media with a critical eye is one of the most important things that a society can do in the developed world.
 
At the same time there's no nuance or respect when debates such as these arise—especially online—and when you've not actually seen the controversy firsthand and all you hear about it ends up being two wildly different viewpoints ... I have a hard time believing the 100% truth of either one.
 
From what I understand, despite his strengths as a writer, Joss Whedon doesn't have a very strong track record on other feminist issues, and that track record seems to be influencing opinions here as well.

Even for someone who doesn't really care too much for kids and would just as soon not, having the biological capability to do so allows for an open possibility if someone else wants them or my desires change. 

Not having it is a loss - the same way losing a limb or an eye is a loss. It also can get to people emotionally more, because not only do they have a missing function, but they are also letting someone else down (or potentially), leading to a life of loneliness in addition to the functional heartache. 

And that's all I've got.

Just to clarify: I am not a huge comic person, nor do I really follow these movies because I'm just not into the superhero craze. My knowledge on these subjects is limited, so I could be way off the mark.

Looked into this a bit more. While I couldn't find the exact scene, I found a synopsis and the overall issue with (as Pomegranate said) Black Widow being a token female character whose representation is already lack-luster in the Marvel franchise.

From my understanding, female superheroes tend to be treated differently in general. It sounds like they were trying to put a new spin on one of those panels, with Black Widow being unable to have children. It sounds like the issue was something like, "finally we have a strong female protagonist, so let's break away from the cliches". And then, boom, they tailored her character development around a concept that has already been done to death in the superhero realm.

That, combined with Black Widow's treatment in general (I heard she has the fewest number of action figures made out of all of the Avengers, including characters that didn't even appear in the movie. Also, apparently when she was first introduced, Tony Stark apparently says "I want one" which is demeaning itself because he can't be bothered to use a pronoun that describes a human and not an object, among probably loads of other issues with her representation that I'm missing), I kinda see where an overreaction is coming from. Not to say the fans are handling it well. I've browsed the comments, and believe me, they are not pretty.

This isn't the first time I've heard about poor representation for female characters in the world of comics. I can't really say one way or the other, though. I'm not female, so ultimately it's not my place to say what is and what isn't offensive to women.

 

 

 Also, apparently when she was first introduced, Tony Stark apparently says "I want one" which is demeaning itself because he can't be bothered to use a pronoun that describes a human and not an object, 

That's really more of Tony's personality (being a spoiled playboy) than anything else. Not to mention Pepper scoffs at him for saying that and he trusts her enough to help him. We aren't supposed to take that as anything other than a stupid joke Tony told. I'm sorry but I really feel like this a tiny nitpick to find something offensive in a movie where Black widow takes down half of the bad guy's henchmen without breaking a sweat while the other guy is bumbling around. So in short this is a really really tiny thing and really negated by the fact that Black Widow has proven herself capable in the movie.

That's a fair point. And it's not unnatural for a bunch of enthusiasts to nitpick and take it too far. Still, no story is perfect, and representation is important.

Though, gotta admit, Tony's character doesn't sound like a great rolemodel for the kids just going off of that. Remember that equal treatment of genders thing I mentioned earlier? Kinda disheartening to see that ignored by a hero character in media marketed to kids. Even if that's not a gender issue, that's just not how you're supposed to treat people after you've literally just met them, imo.

Though I could be reading too far into this, but that's just a personal pet peeve of mine. It's fine to goof around with friends, but treating someone like that right off the bat kinda bugs me.

I can say yes you are reading too much into this. Tony ISN'T supposed to be a role model to kids. His arrogance got him into trouble and cost him his heart. His entire personality is that of someone who is the loveable jerk. His jerkhood is never presented as good and he always gets into trouble because of it. He ruins his friendship with Pepper because of it and his friendship with Rhodes because of it. These two people are pretty much his only friends and his thickheadness causes him to lose them. Unless any of his pigheadedness was portrayed positively then we have an issue. I'm sorry if that came off as harsh but I hate seeing nitpicking getting turned into some huge society problem. Understand?

If he is portrayed as being problematic and I just considered his personal quirks problematic... then aren't we actually agreeing on that point?

If I said he's not a great role model, and you just said he's not meant to be one... then how are we disagreeing?

I'll be more inclined to believe it's not a problem when kids stop dressing as Iron Man and calling him their favorite super hero. I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but I hate seeing people acknowledging a glorified character is problematic and then turning around to say there is no issue. Understand?

Edit: putting that aside, I've asked a friend about Tony Stark's character. Apparently he was modeled around an anxiety disorder and he acts out of angst. Honestly, his demeanor still rubs me the wrong way, but yes, there is more to his character than that. His character overall does not appear to be a problem with society on the whole to me. Now that I have some proper information, I do concede that you are right; I was looking too far into it, but not for any reasons you listed.