I think it's time for a practice argument, what's your topic of choice?

Do I disagree well, bones?

- Tilius

I'm afraid my problem is I do the last one too much. I end up insulting people because usually I express my thoughts in a way that seems like I'm explaining a complex topic like it was rather simple.

The problem is, to me, it usually is simple. Things that makes sense to me often end up being what confuses others.

I don't agree with this.

Haha, J/k. Someone just had to say that. This is an excellent list, Bones. It's clear, quick, and hopefully it works (not that I mean to doubt you, lol). It seems so easy to do, yet there are few who take the time to go about methods such as these. :|

Perhaps more importantly, I've collected scientific research, psychological principles, and sound logic to back these things up.

I disagree.

How'd I do?

:]

Although I could pretend to be totally serious... after all, with you talking about effective arguments, you may want to review the the logical fallacy of suppressed evidence.

</dork>

I think it's time for a practice argument, what's your topic of choice?

I dunno. Stone sets changing from brown to yellow and orange is a favorite subject of mine.

Do I disagree well, bones?

 

- Tilius

I'd say you're one of the best on BZP right now. Sometimes you do the negative label thing more than I'm comfortable with, but yeah. You speak your mind, you listen well, you're concise, and not usually overly negative. Actually, T, you're one of the main examples that helped me to learn these rules, to be honest.

I'm afraid my problem is I do the last one too much. I end up insulting people because usually I express my thoughts in a way that seems like I'm explaining a complex topic like it was rather simple.

 

The problem is, to me, it usually is simple. Things that makes sense to me often end up being what confuses others.

By the last one did you mean "be concise"? But regardless, yeah, that's a big hurdle. I run into that problem a lot too. I'll try to remember to work in something about it in the more in-depth entries.

I don't agree with this.

 

 

Haha, J/k. Someone just had to say that. This is an excellent list, Bones. It's clear, quick, and hopefully it works (not that I mean to doubt you, lol). It seems so easy to do, yet there are few who take the time to go about methods such as these. :|

Hey, I'm in the same boat, like I said, of hoping it works. So far it usually has, or at least better than the alternatives, but it might not always.

Perhaps more importantly, I've collected scientific research, psychological principles, and sound logic to back these things up.

I disagree.

 

 

 

How'd I do?

:]

 

 

Although I could pretend to be totally serious... after all, with you talking about effective arguments, you may want to review the the logical fallacy of suppressed evidence.

</dork>

 

Well, it's concise.

One thing I've always found pleasing when having a civil debate, is when the person views multiple angles. Nothing bothers me more than when people are close-minded and won't see all the different, or amazing points of view (is this sentence hypocritical...?).

I dunno. Stone sets changing from brown to yellow and orange is a favorite subject of mine.

rocks aren't really...orange or yellow by normal standards. '-'

One thing I've always found pleasing when having a civil debate, is when the person views multiple angles. Nothing bothers me more than when people are close-minded and won't see all the different, or amazing points of view (is this sentence hypocritical...?).

I agree. I've blogged about that before (I like to call it "possibilities attitude").

I dunno. Stone sets changing from brown to yellow and orange is a favorite subject of mine.

rocks aren't really...orange or yellow by normal standards. '-'

Right, and neither is Air green or Water blue (though Water's is a stronger connection). Also, most rock isn't brown but gray. The principle used with Air was to use an association to get a more vivid color, and it sold well. Brown didn't sell well, so they applied that principle. It's a looser association, granted, but it does make some sense. Sandstone is a "dark yellow" color, for example, and most brown is "dark orange."

That said, I personally love brown, fave color behind blue... and third favorite is orange, heh.

Concise?

You?

You answered Tils, so I don't feel so bad about asking. What about me?

~EW~

Bones, do what I do...when someone disagrees, kindly state your point-of-view, why you feel that way, and that everyone has their own opinions...if they continue to harp on you, kindly tell them they're beating a dead horse and restate, obviously in different words, your previous points that they disagree with, and why you have them. If they continue to bug you...PM them with a image filled with the foulest, most degrading, most evil, most self-respect crumbling, most suicidal-thought inducing words you could ever hope to think up...and tell them to rhymes-with-a-certain-water-bird-whose-name-is-four-letters-and-ends-in-a-yuck-like-sound off.

Though, I wouldn't try it around moderators....

Bones should definitely write a book regarding this sort of topics. B)

or Water blue (though Water's is a stronger connection)

Actually, water is blue. Water being blue is why the sky is blue (at least I'm fairly certain it is) and why, no matter how deep in the ocean you go, it will be blue.

or Water blue (though Water's is a stronger connection)

Actually, water is blue. Water being blue is why the sky is blue (at least I'm fairly certain it is) and why, no matter how deep in the ocean you go, it will be blue.

Uh, I hope you weren't being serious here, because it's precisely the opposite AFAIK. =P

Do I disagree well, bones?

 

- Tilius

I'd say you're one of the best on BZP right now. Sometimes you do the negative label thing more than I'm comfortable with, but yeah. You speak your mind, you listen well, you're concise, and not usually overly negative. Actually, T, you're one of the main examples that helped me to learn these rules, to be honest.

Aw. Thanks bro.

And tbh I've learnt from you, too. All this logic and stuff. I think before I talk a bit more, but not so much that I don't say what I actually think. I've achieved a balance, really.

- Tilius

So, let me reply to and partially disagree with bonesiii's blog entry in a fair and concise way, for I have spotted some errors in logic:

RE: 1) Listen fairly

While I have no idea what kind of system you use, but unfortunately, my notebook isn't able to read BZPower posts out to me, so I can't listen to them. I am, however, able to read the posts carefully myself, which is what I recommend my fellow members to do as well.

RE: 2) Avoid negative labels

I can't disagree with that.

RE: 3) Be concise

No objections, though I can't help but laugh, seeing as you, bones, of all people ask others to be concise.

RE: 4) Speak your mind

Feel free to speak your mind, but unless your PC is able to take notes while you speak, it may be recommendable to actually type what you want to express so the other members will be able to process your post as detailed in 1).

And with that, I conclude this over-pedantic test argumentation. I hope I was able to put all of your recommendations to good use, bones.

NtM:

P.S.: As a BSS member and occasional BZP visitor, I strongly approve of this blog entry.

Concise?

 

 

You?

I can try. Notice, BTW, that rules 3 and 4 sorta contradict themselves (on purpose ) -- I think it's good to say everything you think needs to be said, it's just that often we use way too many words to say them, etc. Concise doesn't necessarily mean every post is super-short (although that's usually best).

You answered Tils, so I don't feel so bad about asking. What about me?

 

~EW~

You're good too. I think I'll stop answering that question though.

So, let me reply to and partially disagree with bonesiii's blog entry in a fair and concise way, for I have spotted some errors in logic:

 

RE: 1) Listen fairly

While I have no idea what kind of system you use, but unfortunately, my notebook isn't able to read BZPower posts out to me, so I can't listen to them. I am, however, able to read the posts carefully myself, which is what I recommend my fellow members to do as well.

 

RE: 2) Avoid negative labels

I can't disagree with that.

 

RE: 3) Be concise

No objections, though I can't help but laugh, seeing as you, bones, of all people ask others to be concise.

 

RE: 4) Speak your mind

Feel free to speak your mind, but unless your PC is able to take notes while you speak, it may be recommendable to actually type what you want to express so the other members will be able to process your post as detailed in 1).

 

And with that, I conclude this over-pedantic test argumentation. I hope I was able to put all of your recommendations to good use, bones.

 

NtM:

 

P.S.: As a BSS member and occasional BZP visitor, I strongly approve of this blog entry.

That's a good example. My response:

I did mention these seem to work well in most or all walks of life, so it would include literal speaking and listening. And where it wouldn't, those are common "figures of speech."

or Water blue (though Water's is a stronger connection)

Actually, water is blue. Water being blue is why the sky is blue (at least I'm fairly certain it is) and why, no matter how deep in the ocean you go, it will be blue.

Uh, I hope you weren't being serious here, because it's precisely the opposite AFAIK. =P

Actually, I'm fairly certain the sky is blue because the water particles in it reflect blue.

As I said, I'm not certain about this.

The sky refracts sunlight with a blueing effect. Water only reflects that blue light. Water by itself does not cause blueing effects at all. Put it under a grayscale sky (or ceiling, etc.) and you see no blue (or put it under red and it appears red, etc.) In other words, water is totally clear.

(At least in the real world. )

The sky refracts sunlight with a blueing effect. Water only reflects that blue light. Water by itself does not cause blueing effects at all. Put it under a grayscale sky (or ceiling, etc.) and you see no blue (or put it under red and it appears red, etc.) In other words, water is totally clear.

 

(At least in the real world. )

Then why do large amounts of water, such as deep in the ocean, still give a bluing effect?

EDIT: From Wikipedia(and with a source cited, too):

Water is a tasteless, odorless liquid at standard temperature and pressure. The color of water and ice is, intrinsically, a very slight blue hue, although water appears colorless in small quantities. Ice also appears colorless, and water vapor is essentially invisible as a gas.[10]

Proving that the list of rules is incomplete, lol -- citing sources sure helps. I hadn't heard that one. Yayz. And yeah, that makes sense, especially about the blue hues of glaciers. (But I'm keeping the list this short anyways. )

Actually, it's a bit of something that normally doesn't work in a good disagreement, and only happened by chance here- I was actually grasping at straws, and happened to find one that would help me.

Normally, grasping at straws works you into a terrible corner.

This is true.

Or we can all just go read Jay Heinrichs' Thank You for Arguing.

Very good information, bonesiii. But I don't agree with it 100%.

If you want to disagree, these are the (possibly) best instructions:

1) Listen for the duration.

2) State your mind.

Much more simple to remember, and it's been tested (by myself.).