Lord Nektann

This quite funny, I'm enjoying this

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaano. While a lot of us might like it back. this is not the goal. the goal here is to discuss a toyline that was (and still is) a part of our lives. And personally, I think that, for the time being, I'ts best to stay the way it currently is. I cannot imagine where you got that idea. He's new. Maybe hasn't looked around as much as you have. I'm well aware of that. But nowhere does it say that that is our mission. And, from what I've seen only a few members partitioning for that nowadays. So I can't see where that idea came from. It's not 'our mission' so much as that most people here would love it to come back. There are some who want it to end and were glad it ended, but they're the minority. Most would like it to return. Another thought for Bionicle's return would be a post-apocolyptic Spherus Magna where a group of maybe a mix of Glatorian/Toa etc is on a quest to find the Ignika and revive Mata Nui and save them from the tyrannical rule of a new race.

It is a little cliche, but Matoro's death is truly the saddest moment. It was such a powerful comic, and took what was just one of six Toa and elevated him to great status.

I think there are a couple options for Lego here. 1. Continue with present story, having maybe Velika as the main antagonist, replacing Teridax. Spherus Magna is so huge, you can come up with anything. You can make a new species, new armies, new things. It's a WHOLE planet and there are tons of locations you can explore with new characters. 2. Do something on Spherus Magna, but with new characters and continue with classic ones through serials. It can be set on Spherus Magna, but with entirely new people elsewhere on the planet. Possibly this could be Bota Magna Agori, with maybe Lewa being a returning classic character. 3. Go to Core War era. They could do a thing in the past with the Great Beings, Glatorian, and lots of plot devices in the past. There's a lot of ground to cover in the past and could be very intriguing. 4. Explore the universe. Mata Nui visited countless inhabited planets. You could visit one and establish it as in the Bionicle universe, and use serials to keep up with classic characters. An interesting thought is a group of people who have developed a spiritual belief based on Mata Nui from when he visited them. 5. Alternate universe. Keep with the prime ones through serials, but essentially reboot the Bionicle story. You could have the point of divergence be when GBs designed interior islands, and designed a much different internal society in Mata Nui to keep the locations fresh. This would be an interesting new look at the Bionicle story. Those are what I think Bionicle's options are.

I liked the 2008 Toa Nuva, and I think for the most part they did a good job representing the Mata characters better than the 2002 sets did. There, I said it.

I think while Whenua's line is bad, but let's look at a better one, "because that's what Toa do." Other than Whenua's childish weird line, this line was almost triumphant and was delivered much better by Vakama. All it takes is a word and delivery.

I still like Bionicle. It was a really well done, ingenious, and creative story. It started with mystical robots on a tropical island to a 100,000 year old quest to save a planet with giant robots. That's really amazing, and Bionicle was incredible through its run. Sure there was the occasional misstep, but we're all still here aren't we? From when I joined in the MoL saga, Bionicle has kept my interest for a decade soon. That's quite an impressive hold a franchise has had. I think Lego would benefit most from Bionicle by almost doing graphic novels and books and serials without any sets. Without being tied to sets, Bionicle could flourish. Imagine the story team thinking with no restrictions. Bionicle's downfall was it got too big for the sets, but that's exactly why got more involved with it. Some will argue differently, but I think, one day, Bionicle will come back. In what form I don't know, but I can tell you one thing. We'll still be here.

That seems reasonable. So, maybe he was just so used to conventional conquering, as he was skilled at it, that while he was free he spent all his time working hard on it, experimenting, manipulating, etc. -- and when he was protocaged, he was forced to stop being actively engaged in that process, and that opened up a unique time for him to think beyond conventional armies and powers and conquering. Alright, I can see that.The sticking point is we don't know exactly what Mutran learned from Tren Krom. Here's what the Mutran Chronicles says: "For I understood now... I knew how the universe worked, and as much as my mind could stand, why the universe worked. And I knew one thing more that Makuta Teridaxs mad dreams of overthrowing the Great Spirit Mata Nui were not just fantasies. It was possible. It could work. The knowledge I held was the ammunition for the weapon Teridax would one day wield, a weapon that would win us a universe." Now, this would indicate that they knew Mata Nui was a robot. But they may not have known that Mata Nui was a spirit IN a robot. The difference is, if the robot wasn't run by a spirit, then you can't take control over it and replace it with your own. Now, also important is this: the Makuta's evolution to Antidermis was AFTER Teridax revealed the Plan. By that point, Teridax already had the Metru Nui plan formulating. Now he still may not have known that Mata Nui would die or that he now was a spirit like Mata Nui. He might have realized this, and found the Core Processor, as Dume. Then he could have realized that he could BE the universe, and noticed Mata Nui start to die, and anticipate that Toa would come after the Ignika. Now during the 999 years he spent on Mata Nui, he could've left as Antidermis and maybe visited areas need for the Plan. No one would really know as the Rahi were preoccupying them. A further wrinkle was Zaktan discovering the Plan 250 Years before the Mata written in a fortress that was the Brotherhoods. Even if Teridax didn't write it personally, he must have told the other Makuta around 500 years ago. Now, he could easily have mentally told Antroz who was basically in charge while he was toying with Matoran. So Teridax couldn't have had the finalized Plan at the start, but around LoMN and the Dark Time he came up with it. Which we can take as explanation the "Absolute Power" corrupted the Makuta(At least Mr Terry) because in the Melding White Teridax didn't get a chance to take over the Universe.Interesting take. But wouldn't that rob his statement of its meaning? He would not actually be stronger for having resisted the same temptation. He'd merely be the same, but lucky in that he didn't have to face that temptation. The fact that he does see himself as stronger seems to counter that argument. Also, even in the Melding, he probably could have come up with some kind of scheme to conquer the known world if he'd fallen to that temptation. And IMO Teridax Core went evil long before the idea of the takeover had occured to him (after the Barraki), so he fell to temptation before he realized he would have such a chance (or so I think).An interesting thought is that (to my understanding) Teridax's destiny was to take over the Mata Nui robot while Mata Nui got in robot two (which was never made) and then reform Spherus Magna, which he fulfilled on both accounts. Now we don't know what destiny does to personality. It's possible a side-effect left Teridax naturally ambitious. Now as the Barraki tried to take Metru Nui and failed, Teridax could have gotten taken over by ambition. (An interesting note is Teridax's original Metru Nui plan, conquer the city, was basically a really more developed of the Barraki's) So possibly Teridax could have been programmed to be ambitious.EDIT: Last second thought, Teridax could have planned to use the Vahi to speed up Mata Nui's death. Then exploit the destiny of some Toa to then save him. All along the Vahi would have served to eliminate the millennia of toying with Matoran. This would match him saying: "Now it will take a lifetime to achieve what destiny demands!" Quite possibly, the takeover could have been then and there.

Foggy mem, but I presume you're talking about her final "muahahahaha--*fail*" speech. She'd been outed as evil, and the murderer of several Matoran, just prior to that speech. So we wouldn't expect her statements from then on to come from good motives that would be shared by the people of Metru Nui. She is their enemy, and as far as they know, the Brotherhood is their ally, therefore it's perfectly natural that she'd also be the Brotherhood's enemy.And if she wants to go evil, knowing there are such superpowerful good guys helping protect the people, naturally she would be focused on them and not make a move until she found a way to become powerful enough to overthrow or at least defend herself against even them. In Dark Mirror, the alt universe where Tuyet wins, she persecutes the Makuta. The Makuta are hiding in the Archives. So, you're right, she treated the BoM just like other villains and non-compliant Toa. l was using it just for fun, but generally I think the Barraki got so big they didn't think they needed Mata Nui. Obviously Mata Nui isn't doing anything, so they might have been trying to take him out. This was by taking Metru Nui, as in BL 6, the Barraki are reviewing plans to take Metru Nui. Same as Teridax, they thought that Metru Nui was really 'the universe'. We haven't seen Miserix do anything necessarily evil or against the general 'good' inn story. Krika references in BL 11 that the BoM meant something when Miserix led it, so I can see him at first as maybe a good ruler. Now he's just out for revenge, and hasn't really done anything bad It seems a little hard to believe that if Teridax's plan in 2004 succeeded, the Inika would've saved Mata Nui. BS01's Mata Nui's Reawakening Page (which right now is really just Teridax's Plan) states: "Teridax realized he could widen the scope of his ambition to taking control of the entire universe, by replacing Mata Nui's spirit." In Makuta's Guide it reads: "I sought only to disable Mata Nui and show the Matoran who they should truly be worshipping." This is quite telling as it shows that Teridax never thought of actually slipping into Mata Nui's body. In fact, we don't know for sure when he actually realized that Mata Nui was a gigantic robot. It could very well have been while making his way up to the island Mata Nui where he realized Mata Nui was a robot. (Even during the Dark Time he could have, as he realized that Mata Nui was dying. Or even the year he gave Vakama in Time Trap) But yes, the Makuta's Guide states his 'small' ambitions at first involved only felling Mata Nui.

My understanding is the Mahri Nui Matoran form is pretty close to their form before Karzahni 'fixed' them. The mutagen mutated them and reversed Karzahni's tampering. And Mahri Nui follows the general pattern of Metru Nui form anyway. So I'd say that Metru Nui/Mahri Nui is basically the template with regional differences.

That is a good question though. Clearly they weren't unpopular enough for the good guys to see them as bad, but we know that the Archives Massacre left them feared and distrusted in Metru Nui. Spiriah and the Raid of Arthaka mosk likely made it whorse. Referring to BS01's MU History Timeline, Spiriah's incident was after Teridax took over. (Which makes sense, as he imprisoned Miserix afterwords so was still in the BoM). Kojol's Artakha raid was much much later and likely wasn't well know due to the isolation of the island.

So in the Kingdom, that alt universe diverged in late 2007. All stuff before that happened exactly as it did in the main universe. Now, Velika's mind is in a Po-Matoran form, he's not a shapeshifting GB. Interestingly, it's not confirmed if Velika has a real Matoran personality the GB's suppressing, or Velika was made just for the GB, and thus has no personality. Either way, Velika in the main universe does have latent Toa Power and can become a Toa. This is likely by design on the GB's part to see if he'll end up a Toa. All the Kingdom Toa, in the main universe all have latent Toa power. Kapura, Balta, Dalu, Defilak, Velika, and Tanma all have the Toa potential there in the main universe. So we could (if story happens ever) see those six becoming Toa.

So basically here's how this whole thing went down with the Makuta. 1. Mata Nui makes League of Six Kingdoms run by the six Barraki to conquer everybody. They end up getting corrupt. It's never stated why, but absolute power corrupts...absolutely 2. Teridax defeats the Barraki as they try and overthrow Mata Nui, but as BL 6 says, he starts getting thoughts that he could pull it off. Because he's power-hungry, but due to his personality he makes grandiose schemes. He starts to do more evil stuff like Archives Massacre, annoyed that everybody worships Mata Nui for doing nothing, and not the Makuta for guarding and populating the universe with Rahi 3. Mutran visits Tren Krom and they link minds, Mutran learning the secrets of the universe. Mutran tells Teridax about this, Teridax realizing he can take down Mata Nui 4. Teridax tells Miserix who is a good guy, causing Teridax to beat him and kill any 'good' Makuta 5. The Plan part 1: Take Metru Nui. At first, Teridax is concerned only with Metru Nui. He infects Mata Nui, impersonates Dume. The plan is to put the Matoran in spheres, use the Vahi to speed up time, release Matoran. Matoran will think Teridax saved them, bow down to him. The rest of the universe will follow 6. Toa Metru interfere, and Teridax comes up with the plot to take over the robot and BE the universe. The rest is history. So pretty much Makuta were jealous of Mata Nui and were ambitious, and got the idea from the Barraki.

My question for Greg would to be try and get a definitive yes or no on the status of the ATYU 2 stories. The ATYU 2 stories Generally it would be nice to get a firm yes from Greg that we haven't had.

You don't ask to guest star. Generally if you're a well known and trusted community member of BS01 you are asked. I'm not entirely sure as I've never been a guest star. But I assume if you are trusted and a big part of Wiki life you will get an invite.