N.S.M.8

 

And about the 1000 years living in danger, The Turaga actually protected the Matoran during this time, using their masks and elemental powers.

Just in case there's a misconception here, the Turaga played only a small role in Koro defense. They went for most of the time with only one Noble mask each (and some like Translation weren't often ideal for defense), and their elemental power is like candle-level, barely enough to be of much use compared to a Matoran's throwing disk or a Madu Cabolo. The masks were much more useful than the elemental powers, to the point that the elements were barely worth mentioning.

 

Also, one elder cannot protect a whole village from all directions. More often it would be the Matoran protecting the Turaga. The elders certainly helped out, but their role was more of leadership than active protection, and they would use their masks in emergencies or for self-defense. It was a matter of cooperation in terms of level of ability in defense (and in other terms, a matter of chain of command).

 

I think that they had the noble masks for the majority of the Dark Time.

I always thought that when Makuta stole the Toa Stones, he also stole the Turagas' masks.  Takua returned the Toa Stones and their primary masks, while the Toa found the rest.  

That being said, 6 noble masks each and weakened elemental powers would still not be enough to protect the villages, which is why the Matoran needed to form militias.  

The only thing that I can say to respond to this is the fact that in MNOG there is the statement made by, I believe, several Matoran speaking of "ancient" carvers who made certain statues and such throughout Mata Nui. This is a laughable plot hole seeing as there was no original inhabitants before the Matoran, they being originated from Metru Nui. That could incite some sort of plan to do something else with the story, or that the makers of the game had not gotten in on what LEGO was going to do with Bionicle after the Mata Nui portion of the story. 

Perhaps they were referring to the Toa Metru.  We know that they left carvings and warnings in between 2004 and 2005.

So, I don't quite want to start another topic for another question that I think fishers will answer by the morning, so I'll just ask away.

 

Bs01 states that Takanuva's "primary destiny" is playing some kind of role in a GB civil war? What war? Also, if he were to play this role and go against the GBs, why would they program that into him, or is destiny not quite written by the Great Beings?

Destiny was not written by the Great Beings.  Spherus Magna inhabitants (including the Great Beings) are subject to it just as the Matoran are.

"It is as Vakama said. I practiced and became skilled. I now know the secret art of traveling great distances by moving very slowly. It is only a small matter for me to be wherever I am not. It is a useful skill."

— Kapura, Mata Nui Online Game http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Kapura

What none of the theories address is the "moving very slowly" bit. What does time travel got to do with moving very slowly? Personally I don't think that Kapura has teleportation powers, but rather the ability to move very very fast. I remember somebody saying something to me about a combat art that trains you how to fight by moving slowly I'm probably wrong and am open to everybodys theories. (Something I would like to hear is a definite quote that says Kapura has teleportaion powers.)

In the rpg battle at the end of MNOG, Kapura is shown fading out of existence when he dodges, and fading back in when the attack is finished.  It is assumed that he is teleporting away and teleporting back.  

That being said, he also says that he cannot use his skills to cross the gorge on the way to Kini-Nui, implying that he does not teleport.

When asked, Greg refused to give an answer because he was not involved in the MNOG.

I always assumed that he was it was a combination of an innate ability in all Matoran () and a glitch in Kapura that Vakama figured out how to exploit.  If all of it was unique to Kapura, it is unlikely that Vakama could train him, but if their was nothing unique about him then every Matoran (that knew Turaga Vakama) would have this ability.

In resonse to the comments about the Mask of Time, Kapura has the potential to become a toa (The Kingdom), It is entierly possible that Vakama saw this in his visions and is training him now, so that he can use the Vahi when he is transformed. (If this ability is somehow related to time)

 

 

Makuta suddenly feels like playing fair and decides to let his faith hang on a kohlii match, instead of crushing Takanuva then and there.

Most people generally agree with this, but FTR, it isn't really sudden, and it was at least psychologically reasonable; it was a way to mock Takanuva. Of course, it was really done because the moviemakers wanted to do the typical callback to the sports move he failed to pull off earlier, which I guess works for kiddies. 

I always assumed that this was unplanned on Makuta's part.  In my interpretation, even though most of his defeats were planned, he truly intended to stop the coming of the Toa of Light and to fake his defeat at the hands of the Toa Nuva. (I think Greg confirmed that part)  I think that when Takua became a toa, Makuta felt legitimately threatened by a toa of light (Mutran confirms that such a toa is the one thing a Makuta fears), and challenged him to a kohlii match so that he could lose without being harmed.  

 

i'm sure you'd all expect me to say something here about tamaru being transgender female but i'm afraid that's actually canon and doesn't belong here

Really? Where is that from? 

On the topic, I noticed that while the Matoran of Voya Nui were suspicious from the start of the Piraka's appearances, actions and motives, they never questioned Vezok being a male "Toa" of water, implying that Matoran who identify as the opposite gender from the norm for their element are generally known and accepted, at least on Voya Nui. 

 

I always thought that Vezok was pretending to be female...

 

 

 When Artahka made the adaptive armor, he replaced the all of the Toa's Kanohi with adaptive masks, restoring Tahu's (and possiblt Vakama's) lost masks.  While this was useless in Karda Nui due to the fact they couldn't access the suvas, it helped them during their rebellion ogainst their new great spirit, Teridax.

I hate to pick on somebody's headcanon, but for the sake of discussion, wouldn't Makuta just destroy their Suva? (I like the idea in general though. Artakha wouldn't know about the coming takeover so yeah.)

 

Wouldn't Makuta have more important things to worry about than a few Toa's Suva?

 

Y'know, like killing the actual Toa who were using the Suva? Plus he could have sent his Shadow Toa to steal the masks off the Suva, though, if he wanted to, although I suppose that's a neutral arguement that go either way...

 

Bonesiii:

By all means pick my ideas apart (respectfully, of course); it forces me to use logic to defend them, which is something I enjoy doing.  Also, as you said, it encourages discussion.  (which is why we are here)

We know that the other Toa Nuva still have all six masks, so either they survived the destruction of their suvas (entirely possible as they have survived a moon fragment through the city), or Makuta didn't bother (see fishers64's post).  Remember that because his mind was not designed to control the Great Spirit Robot, he had trouble at first.  Perhaps by the time he was able to do it himself, he decided that going after the Mask of Life was more important.

1.  When Artahka made the adaptive armor, he replaced the all of the Toa's Kanohi with adaptive masks, restoring Tahu's (and possiblt Vakama's) lost masks.  While this was useless in Karda Nui due to the fact they couldn't access the suvas, it helped them during their rebellion ogainst their new great spirit, Teridax.

When he was devolved, he lost the ability to use Kanohi Nuva, thus losing these powers AGAIN.    
These Kanohi would probably be used as spares by the other Toa Nuva.

2.  The Golden Armor Hau functioned as a Golden Kanohi from 2001, allowing him access to the weakened, non-Nuva versions of these powers.

2b.  Assuming that the Golden Masks made by Artahka were made by fusing the Kanohi collected by the Tao Mata and that Headcanon 2 is false:  Artahka (or another mask maker) uses the Golden Armor Hau as the Hau component in a new Golden Kanohi for Tahu.

If they used Noble Masks while normally wearing the Golden masks, though, it was definitely swapping with the Turaga's on the Suva. The part where the Komau keeps the golden color from the previous mask on his face is definitely non-canon. The problem there is that there shouldn't be a Komau on his face at all, or if there was, Onewa's mask should have switched to a different Noble. Make sense?

Unless they had 7 of each noble mask.

The masks on Mata Nui were originally kept in the great temple on Metru Nui.   Unless Greg confirmed otherwise, it is entirely possible that the Toa Metru found 6 of each Noble Kanohi in the temple so that when they transformed into turaga, there were 7 of each.

I assume this because Greg said that they took ALL of the masks in the temple and confirmed that their were only 5 of each great mask, with the ones the Toa Mata wore bringing the number up to 6.  Because the Toa were supposed to immediately enter Metru Nui after being launched, I assumed that these 30 masks were left specifically for them.  If that is the case, it makes sense that they would leave 6 of each noble mask, not 5, as they had no way of knowing that there would be six Turaga with those same masks for them to share with.

All of that being said, Pohatu's Noble Koumau should not be gold.

I liked the Maori names (the ones that didn't offend the Maori), because it had a consistent feel.  I really believed that they all came from the same place (because they did).

The other names were good on their own, but with the exception of groups of clone sets (visorak, vahki, and bohrok), they didn't fit together as well.   I have a hard time accepting that someone named Takua and someone named Solek were from the same place.

 

 

 

 

 

Matatu, Jedi Powers for me! I'd be the best Football, Soccer, Baseball Player ever, not to mention not having to get out of bed to turn off the light switch.

A golden Kanohi fusion of the Matatu, the Komau, the Elda, the Suletu, the Rode and the Kanohi of Psychometry would come closer to true and proper force powers.

 

 

 

An elemental mask of psionics would probably work.

 

If only there was such a thing...

 

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Toa_Disk

Important part below

From BS01:

 

"Imprinted with the image of their primary mask, the disks are imbued with the said Toa's element."

 

"Should a Toa Disk be made into a Kanohi, the resulting mask will possess the disk's power."

 

To me, this implies that every elemental power has a corresponding elemental Kanohi.

 

 

 

Matatu, Jedi Powers for me! I'd be the best Football, Soccer, Baseball Player ever, not to mention not having to get out of bed to turn off the light switch.

A golden Kanohi fusion of the Matatu, the Komau, the Elda, the Suletu, the Rode and the Kanohi of Psychometry would come closer to true and proper force powers.

 

Assuming that I have full control over the mask, I would take the Vahi.

Otherwise, anything but the Rode would be useful.  The Rode scares me.

Also remember that Makuta knew about the Ignika when he crafted his plan; if it didn't exist, he wouldn't have planned for Mata Nui to die and be revived.  

Although I don't know what would have happened with the Matoran Civil War, as the Ignika was used then as well.

I don't know if this was retconned, but Chronicles 1 states that the Golden Masks not only have all six powers, but each power is slightly stronger than it would be in a regular great mask (but still weaker then the Nuva masks). Also, the great masks were destined to transform into the Nuva masks after exposure to energized protodermis, making them far more valuable than their non-golden counter parts.

This is only specific to the Toa who entered Karda Nui, but if the Toa Mata (the only beings to actually wear golden masks) did not transform before entering, the Golden Masks would have negated the disadvantage of losing connection to a suva.

 

It is confirmed that Takua was the only Av-Matoran on Metru-Nui. The Midak Skyblaster was not named by Artakha, but by Pohatu and Lewa, who would not know whether it was a disguise or not.

 

That being said, many matoran destined to become toa exibit traits unusual for matoran of their respective element...

How? The Inika matoran were pretty straightforward to their elements, if you ask me. Same goes for the Turaga when they were still matoran. Takua wasn't very much out of his element either.

 

It came from BS01... I think it was based off of Toa Krakua (De-Matoran who hums) and the fact that Kapura becomes a toa in The Kingdom.

Their is probably an old Greg quote for this.

I liked the Matoran arms and the exo-toa rocket. With the exeption of Takadox and Nocturn, I didn't have any sets after 2004, so I can't comment on their launchers.

I still don't know how to make the squid launcher work properly.

It is confirmed that Takua was the only Av-Matoran on Metru-Nui. The Midak Skyblaster was not named by Artakha, but by Pohatu and Lewa, who would not know whether it was a disguise or not.

That being said, many matoran destined to become toa exibit traits unusual for matoran of their respective element...

The biggest problem with the Bionicle story is the repetition.

2001: collect six toa stones, 30 great kanohi (the toa start with one each), 36 noble kanohi (for a total of 7 of each, as the turaga start with one each. The number of noble knohi was discussed in other topics), the various items of Quest for the Toa (including 6 badges of office and six toa stones), and 6 Makoki stone fragments. MNOG is itself a giant fetch quest.
2002: collect 96 krana.
2003: collect 30 Kanohi Nuva, 1 great Kanohi, and attempt to capture the krana-kal and the kraata. MNOG2 is an even bigger fetch quest, including 15 charm and 6 crystals among it's items.

from 2004 onward, it gets a little bit better.

2004: collect 6 great disks.
2005: collect 6 Makoki stone fragments, 1 great kanohi, and various airship parts.

2006 and 2007: collect 1 great kanohi.

2008: collect 6 keystones, find and destroy Energized Protodermis pools.

2009: collect 1 Book of Certavus. There was also the Lego Network fetch quest.
2010: collect 6 pieces of Golden Armor.

I'm sick of collecting things!

If you asked me two years ago, I would have said that it was a tie between 2003 and 2008.

Now it is a tie between 2001 and 2004.

Tren Krom was by far the character mot abused by the story.

Created by the Great Beings to serve the Matoran universe by maintaining the laws of physics, later betrayed and imprisoned by those same great beings for the crime of being a possible threat to Mata Nui (because of the powers that THEY gave him).

He was so hideous that he caused insanity in all who saw him, leaving him with no friends or confidants except possibly Velika, a Great Being. Even so, Velika didn't tell him much, as he was forced to invade the minds of his visitors for current events (as he did to Mutran and Brutaka's team).

Artakha later recruited him to the war against Teridax, but re-imprisoned him after his work was done, telling him to "have faith" that Mata Nui would free him (he could just have easily teleported back to his island and crafted a body for him).

He was later freed by his "friend," only for Velika to stab him in the back in full view of the Red Star, something that could revive anyone from the Matoran Universe besides him, and to Tren Krom, was the symbol of those who originally betrayed him.

I was thinking about the Toa Code and how it prevented them from joining the Order of Mata Nui. Toa cannot kill their enemies, while the Order of Mata Nui frequently kills; even their own members are not safe as seen when the Order killed anyone who knew the location of Artakha. The Toa have a moral code to ensure that they don't let their power corrupt (as Tuyet did). This all makes sense until you consider The Pit, the Order of Mata Nui's ultimate punishment. The Pit is not an execution chamber, but a prison meant to hold beings for life.

Why would an organization who would willingly to permanently silence their own members and refuses to allow Code-Bound Toa to join not be willing to execute their own prisoners? In fact, they go even further by sending Botar to stop them from being executed by others (Tuyet and the Barraki are prime examples) and instead imprison them in a supposedly inescapable prison. Even after the destruction of The Pit, they build a new prison on Daxia instead of changing policy. The Order is nothing if not efficient and secretive, yet this seems like the most inefficient practice of all time and has a high probability of allowing secrets (about The Pit and the Order's existence) to leak.

 

Greg :
Mata Nui was supposed to be a self-sustaining system, and obviously, certain individuals played very important roles in maintaining it. In addition, it necessarily had finite resources for producing new beings to replace any lost in accidents, etc. Hence the red star -- a being who died inside Mata Nui would be teleported to the red star where their essence would be transplanted into another body and they would be sent back. Unfortunately, as with so many things related to Mata Nui's construction, it didn't work very well. The teleporting "to" worked but the teleporting "from" didn't, so a lot of newly revived dead folk were stuck on the satellite with no way to get back home.

from the Eberus topic

I think this brings up an interesting point. Anyone who has played an MMOG knows about the idea of someone killing your character, then staying where the battle happened until you respawn and killing you again, on and on. To avoid something like that, the red star does not send you back to where you started from. They might send you back a long way from where you started from, and who knows what you might encounter there that would prevent you from getting back to where you started from.

 

from Lego Message Boards Link Here

The Red Star explains the necessity of The Pit, beings killed in the Matoran Universe would (if the Red Star worked) reappear late . This explains the actions of the Order perfectly: the only way to permanently stop someone is to imprison them, if they are killed they can simply cause havoc elsewhere. Not even Helryx needs to know the true reason, if she knows (from Mata Nui or the Great Beings) that imprisonment is the only permanent solution no one in the Order would question it. Teridax clearly did not know about this when he tried to have the Barraki executed. Mutran would later tell him after learning from Tren Krom, the only being in the Matoran Universe besides Mata Nui who seemed to know.

This brings us back to the Toa Code. For so long we were told that the Code was a matter of morals, that the Toa didn't kill their opponents because they were "above" doing so. This is the view taken by the Toa themselves. But the existence of the Red Star brings up another theory: The Toa Code was a matter of ruthless efficiency. If Toa killed their opponents, they would (in theory) simply reappear elsewhere. I see this as a possible story direction, can you imagine Tahu learning that the law he believed made him not a monster was nothing more than another Great Being contingency. Some Toa would not be very affected (Zaria would probably feel better) but Toa like Tahu would be devastated.

There seems to be a misconception on BZP that the Great Beings gave each Matoran (or other MU being) a destiny.

Destiny is not written by the Great Beings

Important part below:

 

 

 

During creation of a destined matoran, how could the great beings/mata nui ensure/know the series of an events that would ensure they would do what they intended? (the inika as an example again: when matoro was created, how could they insure that he would one day travel to voya nui to use the mask of life?)

3) It's a good question. I don't think you can lay this at the feet of the GBs, since they did not know when they created these beings that they would end up self-aware, Makuta would rebel, etc. Destiny, it would seem, might have to be writ by someone other than them.

This explains how Energized Protodermis could function on Shperus Magna and how one of the Great Beings was cursed by the Ignika. (both of these events rely on Destiny).

It should be noted that in Reign of Shadows, Teridax uses the Great Spirit Robot's consciousness to determine the destiny of the beings who would become the Gold-Skinned Fusion, suggesting that the Great Beings had some understanding of Destiny when they built Mata Nui.

 

They never finished the third robot.

Now they'll never form Great Spirit Kaita.

 

Imagine a Matoran working in Metru-Nui as the robots fuse.

They never finished the third robot.