N.S.M.8

IC Pounamu

Looking around, Pounamu noticed that the other Rahkshi at the table was making an attempt to ignore him.  That might have to do with the fact that, while searching for his bag for some seasoning he had pulled out various strange objects in addition to his other plants, including bits of white protosteel (which looked suspicioulsly like claws) and half of a Kanoka Disk, all of which were currently placed on the table.  Either that or he just didn't want to talk to anyone.

Ah! Finally, he thought. I found it.

Pulling the plant out of the bag, he used his power to make it grow, then pulled of the piece he created.  He ground the strange flower and sprinkled it over his food.

Well, it's edible now, he thought as he ate his new meal.

Suddenly he stopped as an idea came to him.  People always put on an act when they know that they are being scrutinized.  You can only truly learn about others when their guard is down...
With that thought in mind he turned to his new, quiet companion.

"Hey" he began, only to remember that he was one of the most socially awkward people in the world, "I uh, have something that can ALMOST make this slop taste like food, if you want it"
 

IC: Pounamu

With most of the student body "redecorating" the Nynrah village, the lines at the cafeteria were nearly non-existent.  Sitting down at a table with one other student, he finally got a good look at the strange substance that the school was trying to pass off as "food" 

Hesitantly, he took a bite.  Disgusting, he thought. No wonder this other fellow seems more interested in that book of his.

As a Level 2 Rahkshi of plant control he could cause other plants to grow or wither at the slightest touch, so he had a habit of carrying around lots of small plants with various functions, on which he could use his power.  Now though, he was only looking for something with taste.

OOC: open for interaction, sitting at the same table as "Revenge"

IC Pounamu

Pounamu entered the campus for the first time, his weapon clipped to his back and his few meager possessions in the pouch slung over his shoulder.  On the way in, he passes through a Nynrah village and saw many Rahkshi tearing down naming day celebrations a few weeks early. 

"Probably other students on an 'assignment'" he thought to himself.

Deciding to worry about them later, he headed for the cafeteria.

OOC: open for interaction

First attempt at RPing...

Name: Pounamu (Maori for greenstone)

Variation: Plant Control

Level: 2 

Gender: Rahkshi are gender-less but Poumanu usually identifies as male (unless it is useful not to)

Gear: Taiaha (google it) with bits of vine attached to the upoko as main weapon, along with a bag with miscellaneous possessions and bits of junk.  

Appearance: Standard Rahkshi of plant control

Personality: Poumanu is very quiet and withdrawn. Although he will never seek out the company of others, he secretly enjoys it.  He is a very sneaky individual, seeing everything in terms of how it could be used to his benefit later. While intelligent, Poumanu is considered a failure by his Creator-Makuta (whose name Poumanu does not know) because he does not show much ambition, preferring to take orders rather than give them.  At least that's what he wants you to think...

Bio: Poumanu was created by a Makuta who did not initially like the idea of letting a Hyper-intelligent Rahkshi out of his sight, although when he didn't show any sign of ambition he was sent to the school to be "fixed"  Poumanu seeks the substance used to transform Krana into Krana-Kal, in hopes of duplicating Teridax's "Kraana-Kal" experiment, but he has know idea where to start looking.

In Chinese mythology, the element of Wood would consist of both plants and air.  This is the element that they have given Lewa, under the name of Jungle (Because "Toa Lewa, Master of Wood" is just strange).

 

 

The problem is that Greg doesn't care. Greg has better things to do. But if we, as a fandom, keep pestering the man to canonize every detail that sounds valid, he will continue to canonize things because it's easier than remembering the minutiae of a decade-long line that ended five years ago.

From LMB:

 

 

 

There's been a debate going on about the canonization of things for old BIONICLE story, and I thought I would share my thoughts on this.

1) First of all, the notion held in some quarters that I no longer care about old BIONICLE and will just canonize anything is wrong and a little insulting. If I did not care about old BIONICLE (or Gen1 as some people call it), I would not be spending my time answering questions on this board. I invested 10 years of my life in Gen1 and wrote over 800,000 words on it. So yes, I care.

2) That said, one of the reasons NOT to add much to canon in the past was the possibility that Gen1 might come back in some form someday. With new BIONICLE officially a reboot, that option is extremely unlikely to happen. So allowing bits into the story here or there is not going to ruin any official plans for the future. Also, since it is also extremely  unlikely that authorization will ever come to write new chapters of old story, the only additions there can be to  old story are these minor canonizations.

3) There are things I do  not want to do. I am not going to add new Toa elements, and I do not want to start doing a lot of retcons which is why I made the rule that if one of my answers is contradicted by pre-established canon, canon takes precedence. The kind of things I have been canonizing -- an extra Rahi for Mata Nui, a name for a Toa team -- are minor and do not ruin or retcon anything from past story. I think the hue and cry over them is a little overblown.

4) Please keep in mind that I do  not own the story -- LEGO Company does, as they own everything to do with BIONICLE. Anything I do is done with their sufferance, and they can, at any point, declare that nothing else can be canonized if they choose to do so. They are the  only ones with the authority to do that. Any segment of the fanbase can choose to  ignore whatever they like, but they do not have the authority to shut the story down

I was indifferent to it back in the day, but now that they are the only way of adding to the story, I like them a bit more.

I went with the Mask of Healing, because it fits a Toa of The Green.

In 2001, all of the masks complemented the element: The Hau protected Tahu from his own dangerous element and allowed him to survive his more reckless maneuvers, the Pakari helped Onua dig through the dirt, the Kakama made up for Pohatu's lack of natural speed (stone doesn't move easily), the Miru combined with his air powers allowed Lewa to fly, the Kaukau allowed Gali to survive in her own element, and the Akaku helped Kopaka see during snowstorms.

Remember, the Toa Mangai were all Toa before being called to Metru-Nui.  If these 11 Toa were called, I would assume that they are among the best at what they do.  If the Toa of The Green was called to fight a fire-breathing dragon (something with a HUGE advantage over him) and Toa of his element are known as healers, then it is reasonable that they would have called the best healer they could (who probably has a Mask of Healing).

This one pops up a lot on other sites not dedicated to Bionicle (such as sites for general Lego discussion), but I think it should still be addressed here (if only so I have something to link them to): Greg was somehow the "real writer" for (or, more humorously "the creator of") Bionicle (if they acknowledge the story team, they assume he was it's head).

Greg has denied this many times, but most people who read the Greg discussions already knew this so the message does not reach it's intended audience.

Well, to beat a Sith, a Toa needs to overcome his lightsaber and his force powers.

In Star Wars, there are several materials that are resistant to lightsabers (Beskar, Cortosis, and Phink are the most well known).  If protosteel is lightsaber resistant, than anyone wearing protosteel armor (such as Adaptive Armor) is going to have a huge advantage.  

Also, unless the specifically designed not to, most lightsabers will short out in water.  A toa of water would be able to short out the lightsaber easily. (A toa of iron could also do this if he knows how to create Cortosis, as this material also temporarily disables lightsabers on concact with the blades)

Hmm... Toa of water + Adaptive Armour = Gali Nuva 
She also has the Kaukau Nuva, which can REPLACES someones ability to breath air with the ability to breath water. It will quickly kill her opponent if he or she cannot break her concentration with force powers (The Toa Code does allow a Toa to kill in certain scenarios)

The force allows a Sith to perform physical feats considered impossible, as well as a variety of powers (such as telekinesis and Sith Lightning).  A Toa of psionics with a Calix (such as Varian) would be a be able to match most of these abilities.  If we assume that prototsteel can deflect lightsaber blades, then a Toa of psionics armed with a Calix and a protosteel weaponn would be able to match a force user pretty evenly (unless, we start to factor in things like Sith Sorcery...).

My money is still on Gali Nuva.  The Adaptive Armor (if protosteel is lightsaber resistant), in conjunction with her water powers, will easily render her opponent's lightsaber useless.  When compared to Star Wars species capable of becoming force sensitive, a Toa is on the stronger end of the scale physically.  Her Kaukau Nuva will insta-kill any opponent (and possibly knock them out with a non-leathal attack), but requires concentration to use.  A Sith would attempt to fight with his force powers while he is choking, but force powers also require concentration.  It seems that it simply comes down to who can activate their powers first, but Gali has one more advantage.  Her Adaptive Launcher, unlike the rest of her armor, adapts TO THE OPPONENT, not the environment.  This will give her the edge until she can subdue them or activate her Kaukau Nuva.

This is not to say that she will always win, only that she would be a very tough opponent for a Sith to face in battle.

Step one: have them play MNOG.

Step one and a half: Have them read the comics in between chapters of MNOG.

Step two: Have them read Tale of the Toa.

If they are still not interested, don't force it.

Where was it stated that they were made in the shape of the champion's mask? I'm curious... The only time I can recall copper masks being mentioned AT ALL in canon, is in the MoL movie when the announcer said something like "four time copper mask winners" or something like that.

 

Kanoka were not produced on Mata Nui. I don't even think there were Kanoka on Mata Nui. So no masks... If they were made of plain regular metallic protodermis, sure they could melt something up. Makes sense that the masks have no power. As in, zero, none. Not even functionality assistance as a power. None.

Let's tackle these in reverse order.

BS01 says:

 

 

On Metru Nui, masks were made from Kanoka.

This implies that Kanohi made elsewhere did not come from Kanoka.  BS01 also states:

 

 

The technology to develop Kanoka was first invented in the Ko-Metru Knowledge Towers around 4,000 years ago

Kanohi were in existence for FAR longer than that, further implying that Kanoka are not required.

Kanoka ARE just chunks of purified metallic protodermis, so I'm pretty sure any piece of (protodermic) metal magnetically attachached to a Moatoran's face would prevent them from falling into a coma.

And there WERE a few Kanoka on Mata Nui, but they lost their powers.  BS01 says:

 

 

Some Kanoka were originally brought to Mata Nui with the Matoran, but, as Kanoka wear out with repeated use, they became powerless over the years. Later, the Matoran made replicas of Kanoka out of Bamboo, but they were powerless and could only be used to strike things.

For the last (first?) point, about them not being mentioned outside of "Mask of Light"

I believe they were in the GBA game from 2001.

 

They are powerless Matoran Masks.  They could be worn, but they provide no more benefit than any other powerless mask.  

 

Do you really want to wear it and risk it breaking?

 

Where are you getting that from? I remember asking Greg some 20 questions about copper masks...

Copper masks are NOT powerless Matoran Masks. They are not even Kanohi. They are just some ceremonial thingy shaped like a mask. Just a trophy shaped like a mask. If a Matoran was in a coma and then they found a copper mask it would provide NO effect, because they are just, in power sense, junk.

 

I got it from BS01

 

 

Copper Masks of Victory are powerless Kanohi with ceremonial value.

If Greg changed this (it's possible), then we should change the BS01 page.

They are powerless Matoran Masks.  They could be worn, but they provide no more benefit than any other powerless mask.  

Do you really want to wear it and risk it breaking?

I think a better question would be "Can regular Krana use Bohrok-Kal?"

I don't think they can, otherwise the Bahrag wouldn't have created Krana-Kal.

Alright, thanks! That's really cool about Matoro. I suppose Macku's line is just non-canon due to it being an error. Thanks again! Thread can now be closed.

Turaga Nokama was telling this story after Hahli was appointed, and that line is in the narration.  Maybe she was just making it easier for the other Turaga.

I think the memories and personalities are stored in the Bohrok-Kal themselves, but simply need the Krana-Kal to "turn on".

new headcanon: Takanuva wears a great Pakari underneath the Avohkii. he has no idea that it's there.

It's hard to not notice that kind of thing.  Even if he couldn't feel the weight of an extra metal plate attached to his face (granted, if anyone would miss something like that, it would be him), someone else would have told him (it would be visible near his chin and in between the spikes on the top of the Avohkii). 

Any two of them as long as they have six elements between them can do it.

Provided, of course, that these six powers don not include both Light and Shadow.

I am immediately going to say no to the six element lords that fought in the cold war, as Velika blames them for all of Spherus Magna's problems.
I will also hesitate to believe that Raanu and Gresh are among his agents as they seemed to fear the idea of letting Mata Nui control the prototype robot.

Beyond that, I will need more time to think.

The biggest thing to consider with the Olmak from Tuyetverse is, when we asked Greg about it we only asked if he had ever planned to use it again. I don't believe we ever explained further what its purpose would be for.

 

Also I should clarify that "spoiler" was actually HIGHLY exaggerated in that it is certainly one of the biggest mysteries in-universe. Outside of it, there is FAR MORE mysteries that Bones and I came up with that greatly exceeds that particular one.

I see no reason to try to get Greg to canonize the other details. For one thing, even if he would go for that (I don't see why he would), that would probably draw more attention to it out of story which, even once it's revealed, could spoil it for a lot of people, as we can't expect everybody to read the in-story reveal right away before reading other posts. And I'm not aware of a precedent of such a thing. The Olmak itself was already canon, so that isn't one.

 

There's more to my thinking here but I can't comment further without risking spoiling it even a little.

Thank you

I only asked because I was wondering if the destruction of the Olmak at the hands of "thing" was canon.

This may be revealed to be an unfounded worry, but since I assume that what ever destroyed the Olmak originated from the void in between dimensions, not in the EM (based on what little has been revealed), that you may have accidentally introduce something into the canon universe without getting it approved.

Again, this may be unfounded, but it was why I asked.

After Greg's latest post, I don't think this argument really needs to be continued. Whether or not they were moons or planets didn't matter to the story team or to Greg. In effect, I think he's admitting he doesn't know what he's doing, and deferring this matter to fans who know orbital physics better than he does (e.g. bonesiii).

 

Keeping that in mind, I really don't care what we end up saying on BS01, but I think bonesiii's case makes the most sense. If we all agree with that, perhaps we can make the requisite edits, apologize to Boidoh, and bring this whole silly snaffu to rest.

I agree with every word you said.  I think one day we will look back on this with the same embarrassment we feel when looking back at the controversy surrounding Teridax's name.  

And in reference to BS01, this situation is the same as when he said that the masks of fused beings ARE NOT a combination of the individual mask powers of the beings fused.  Because that directly contradicted earlier in story events, we (and presumably the BS01 people) chalked that up to Greg forgeting old stuff.  It is the same here, so I would recommend BS01 continue to refer to them as moons.

Quick question about the canon Olmak.

The Cipher Chronicles say that the Olmak was destroyed by a mysterious force in the void between dimensions after it was used to send Takanuve home.  My question is: Was Greg told what destroyed the Olmak when he canonized it's destruction?  Did he also canonize whatever destroyed it?

If not, will you try to get it canonized when you finish Cipher Chronicles?

 

These two are wasting time nitpicking something that doesn't affect our enjoyment of Bionicle.

This is tangential to this topic, and we might want to start another, however, it can affect enjoyment to insert random nonsensical, apparently pointless misunderstandings of physics into a story!

 

Anyways... character mistakes. Tahu too tempermental. There.

 

 

I know this was said as a bit of a joke and that Tahu WAS too temperamental, but I always feel the need to defend Tahu, as he isn't very well liked.  I think this is due to C. A. Hapka's poor treatment of the character.

Question: Did his temper really cause any problems?  

Answer: Let's think about this...

1. Tahu gets mad when he wakes up and can't swing his sword.  EFFECT:  Tahu put's on the mask, and can now use his sword and his fire.
2. Tahu almost attacks the Ta-Koro guard.  Can you really blame him?  EFFECT:  Vakama saves everyone.
3. Tahu gets mad because Kopaka and Lewa want to seach for the masks alone.  EFFECT:  Tahu broods in Ta-Koro, and the other Toa eventually follow his plan anyway.
4. Tahu broods in Ta-Koro because he is mad at Kopaka.  EFFECT:  Jala tells him about the mask in Onu-Koro.
5. Out of anger, Tahu attacks Kofu-Jaga with fire (if you don't remember, fire mkes them stronger).  EFFECT:  He comes up with a better plan, and emerges victorious.  
6. Tahu is upset that the Toa are going to get HIS Miru without him.  EFFECT:  He get's over it.
7. Tahu burns down a tree and the fire spreads.  EFFECT:  Gali puts out the fire and gets mad at him, but they make up off screen.
8. Tahu get's mad at Kopaka for not telling the others about the Toa Kaita.  EFFECT:  Gali calms him down.

That's just year one, but the pattern continues:  Tahu does something rash, nothing really goes wrong.  For example:  
Tahu tries to fight Zaktan without his powers after the other Toa have fallen.  EFFECT: The Toa are captured, stripped of their masks and tools, and sent to be killed. They escape.

There ARE two exceptions that I can think of, but neither were his fault:

1. His mind is poisoned by two Rahkshi, and he attacks his team.  Gali, Lewa, and Kopaka save him.
2. Tahu leads his team and the Voya Nui resistance into a trap where they are all defeated by Brutaka.  Let's be honest, their was NO WAY to see that coming.

So yes, he was too temperamental, but it didn't really cause any problems.  Besides, most of the time he was angry because he was making the right decision, but the others wouldn't follow it.  

 

Everyone said I was crazy, they said I was mad, INSANE; just like my idol Vezon.

 

BUT I KNEW!

 

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/10897535/highlight/true#M248601

Greg is officially as insane as Vezon...

 

Every visual depiction shows them as moons.

Every line of dialogue AND NARRATION refers to them as moons.

Basic physics (although Greg doesn't care bout this one) demands that they be moons.

Greg's explanation about us only seeing one side of each fragment (while not making much sense) only works if they are moons.

 

This is as big a retcon as him saying "Mata Nui never left the planet" 

It just makes no sense.

 

To get back on topic, we missed the biggest character mistake of all.

Two "cool dudes" (take that censor, I'm censoring myself!) N.S.M.8 and Biodoh, are wasting their time holding an off topic argument and getting defensive about something that, let's face it, isn't remotely important.  These two are wasting time nitpicking something that doesn't affect our enjoyment of Bionicle.