N.S.M.8

That's my big problem with shrinking down the robot to 10 million feet : the only problem it adresses is the Mata Nui Rising video, it keeps all the problems people give for getting ride of the 40 millions feet size.

... Solving the Mata Nui Rising issue isn't reason enough to change the size?

Why not?

Greg himself brought up an interesting question about Matoran romance. He still denies that it exists though.

In this first post he was asked to re-canonize Matoran romance, which he naturally does not do. (source)
 

 

 

 

I know the topic of romance in Bionicle has been one which you have probably been beaten over the head with countless times, but i recently decided to share my two cents on the topic.   Romance in living animals exists for the rather singlular purpose of reproduction, and that is not something that exists within the Matoran species.  Plus this is a childrens toy and its probably best to stay as far from a topic like that as possible.  However, i feel that the relationships included in some of the older books offer a good reason to include the EMOTION of love at least.  Take the relationship between Nokama and Matau (or rather how Matau acts towards Nokama) for example. Normally he is a very confident character, sort of full of himself, but in the older books he has a major soft-spot for Nokama specifically. He is very protective of her, and is shy of his feelings. I know that these scenes are now non-canon, but i feel that choice threw away some really unique character building. Without those scenes, Matau is sort of a one-dimensional over-confident dude (no offense), but with them he gets that crutial extra bit of depth that makes his character that little bit more interesting.

You could argue that Matau/Nokama relationship is just one of very close friendship, but i think that at least leaving it open to enterpretation would make it a little more interesting. It is more fun and engaging for the reader to have two characters that you can't quite tell whether or not they are more than friends, than to have two characters that you know exactly what sort of relationship they have.  That unknown factor can spawn discussion, and ultimately that is a good thing (most of the time). 

 

So i guess my real question is this; 

 

Would you ever consider reinstating love (outwith what a sort of brother/sister love) as a thing that the Matoran kind can experience? 

Not romantic love, no.

This is the standard answer to this type of question, but he then follows it up with this:
 

 

That said, though -- you are now going to have MU inhabitants exposed to the concept on SM. So there is no telling what effect that might have.

Now, let's not take this out of context or assume that it means anything about them possibly developing the ability to feel romantic love (it probably doesn't).  It is just interesting to think about how fully sapient nano-tech would react to not only romance but the existence of multi-gender tribes.  

Well, this is just confusing. Not only has the LoSS been defeated, but the Toa and protectors don't even HAVE fusions. The combo models are just the protectors giving the Toa some of their equipment.

I think that the Lord of Skull Spiders probably survived and will return later.

As for the combo models (or "Super-Toa"), the Lego Club website posted the instructions for Tahu and Kopaka (and will probably post the rest at some point), and the Onua model can be found in the iOS version of the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we still have a double canon about which celestial object hit the Great Spirit Robot on the head.

From BS01:

 

Teridax's death differs in several sources; both Journey's End and the Mata Nui Saga describe it as the entire Bota Magna planet which crashes into his head, while the canon death is from a moon fragment, described in the later sources Sahmad's Tale and Glatorian Comic 7: Rebirth.

(Emphasis mine)

...When was the last time that you read Reign of Shadows?  
Chapeter 1:

 

Here, a group named the Great Beings had built a 40 million foot tall mechanical being they namedMakuta. Unfortunately, his brother, Mata Nui, was plotting a rebellion against him.

Chapter 4:

 

Makuta Teridax, in the huge robotic body that once belonged to Mata Nui, surveyed the world he stood upon. There was nothing but water for as far as the eye could see – and when one is 40 million feet tall, reflected Makuta, one can see quite far.

(Both quotes copied from BS01's copy of Reign of Shadows)
 

 

When I first saw this 36 hour theory, I assumed that Spherus Magna days were the same length as Earth days but that Spherus Magna hours were shorter than Earth hours.

 

 

Something pertaining to this question was pivotal to a project of mine, and by asking our fellow scholar fishers64, she mathematically came up with their being 244 days in a year for Spherus Magna (I rounded up). Here is an excerpt from the personal message to show her work:

 

If you want a SM year that is the exact same length (in time) as ours, the math is easy - 365.25 days x 24 hours = 8766 hours in a year. Divide that by 36 and you get 243.5 days in a year.

 

I hope that helped some folks who are interested.

 

Changing the length of the hour instead of the day would make this type of thing unnecessary. 

Please, don't hit the messenger!    I'm just sharing an answer I received from elsewhere...

 

I realize that; I was just using your post as an example.

I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was attacking you.

When I first saw this 36 hour theory, I assumed that Spherus Magna days were the same length as Earth days but that Spherus Magna hours were shorter than Earth hours.

 

Something pertaining to this question was pivotal to a project of mine, and by asking our fellow scholar fishers64, she mathematically came up with their being 244 days in a year for Spherus Magna (I rounded up). Here is an excerpt from the personal message to show her work:

 

If you want a SM year that is the exact same length (in time) as ours, the math is easy - 365.25 days x 24 hours = 8766 hours in a year. Divide that by 36 and you get 243.5 days in a year.

 

I hope that helped some folks who are interested.

 

Changing the length of the hour instead of the day would make this type of thing unnecessary. 

Both Faber's concept art and the 2008 Mata Nui Rising animation show the robot at about 3150 kilometers (about 10,334,645.68489583 ft.) if we assume that those videos show the island of Mata Nui at it's canon size (489.09 km x 243.86 km).

Faber's concept art is non canon (and has no further bearing in this discussion), but it is a bit harder to ignore the Mata Nui Rising video.  This isn't just a debate about trying to replace a canon number with one that the fans prefer; this is a confict between two canon sources.  We have a few options:

1. Leave this an unsolved mystery.  (resolved by headcanon)
2. Change Greg's number to about 10.3 million feet.  (with Greg's permission)
3. Change the canon size the island of Mata Nui to cover Greg's larger robot.  (with Greg's permission)
4. Declare the 2008 video non canon (by saying that the island DID NOT fully cover the robot's face).  (with Greg's permission)

As much as I don't like option number one, it does seem to be the most likely, as all of the others require input from Greg.  
Option number 2 seems to me to be the easiest, but will leave chapters one and four of Reign of Shadows in an ugly semi-canon state.
As was mentioned above, Changing the size of the island will bring up another batch of logic problems.
Option number 4 bothers me for two reasons.  Reason one is that it would be quite a poor camouflage if it didn't.  Reason two is that Metru Nui would be like a pea inside of Mata Nui's head.  

Another thing to consider in defense of the smaller size of 3150 km is that it is still ludicrously big, so the shock value isn't lost.  

I see a lot of people mentioning Krahka and Triglax as being members of the same species.  I seem to remember that Greg explicitly denied that, saying that Triglax is not a Rahi.  

Other than that, I think condensing the species list might be a good idea, not because there are too many, but because it feels more real when there are multiple named characters in each species.

I justify this one by saying that they are THE SAME FORM, but that it is just a really poor set.  

I don't know if that's official, but it is the easiest explanation. 

I voted yes to some, but no to others.

While I don't think any of the powers should be replaced, there is already precedent to do so.  I think that the Powers of Disintegration and Fragmentation (and any other war-like powers that fans may want to later replace) should stay as they are and that purity should replace hunger, but I don't really care about the other two.  Let's remember what the purpose of the Makuta was in the Melding Universe.
 

 

“So, your title is Makuta?” asked Mazeka. “What do you do?”

“Whatever is necessary,” Teridax replied. “My role is to aid the Toa in looking after the villagers; to create new life forms, as needed; and to teach the virtues of unity, duty and destiny to those I and my brothers bring into being.”

I think that because the Toa already posses elemental powers (and are trained to repair a planet), the Matoran posses great physical strength, and the Makuta posses Telekinesis (and presumably magnetism), there is no need to give them MORE powers for construction; the villages already posses enough powers for building.  The Makuta need some powers for defending the villages against external threats (and possibly to assist the Matoran and Agori in demolition projects).  

I would be okay with swapping Poison with Purity (Remove Poison), as poison does not seem useful to them in aiding the Toa, but another type of healing would be useful.  

Vakama's disk launcher.  Kanoka are second only to Zamor Spheres in terms of versatility, and it's the only launcher that still does things (channel fire and FLY) after it is out of ammo.  

Krahka does not copy Mask Powers ("to the best of [Greg's] knowledge")

 

 

 

 

keplers wrote:

If a Krahka copied the powers of a Mohtrek and one of the time duplicates were instantly destroyed – thus being terminated before it could be sent back to its original time – what would happen?

Krahka could duplicate a Toa wearing a Mohtrek and gain that Toa's elemental power. However, to the best of my knowledge, she does not gain the mask power too. So she would not be able to use a Mohtrek to do what you are suggesting.

Someone else just updated BS01 this morning, but I thought that I should put it here as well for people who don't check the wiki.

Do you guys think that you can do set review for the new combiner since you have both sets?

 

I would assume that the villager masks are powerless.  

 

The green skull spiders have developed x-ray vision, which enables them to find prey even in total darkness. A fact that that gives Lewa the creeps.

 

Is that really what it says? Since when do x-rays help you see in the dark?

 

By using X-Rays, they do not need to rely on visible light.  Of course this requires that they generate the X-rays and watch for the reflections (which isn't explicitly stated and may not be what Lego intended), but it is the best excuse I have for the power.

I really don't think the Skull Spiders' defeat at Tahu's hands was evidence of their being weak, only of them being overconfident.  Let me explain:

First, let's refresh our memory of the three breeds.

Blue Skull Spider:

The blue skull spiders are some tough critters. They have been known to survive incredible things. Such as a falling Onua.

These skull spiders sometimes have scorpion stingers.  They seem to be able to withstand a fight with a Toa.

Green Skull Spider:

The green skull spiders have developed x-ray vision, which enables them to find prey even in total darkness. A fact that that gives Lewa the creeps.

These skull spiders seem sneaky, preferring ambush to direct confrontation.  Their power does not help them in a direct confrontation. 

Silver Skull Spider:

The silver subspecies of the skull spiders is the fastest. They strike with a lightning speed that makes even Gali impressed.

These skull spiders seem to prefer hit-and-run tactics.  They will flee if they don't immediately secure victory, only to return later.  If they need to fight directly, I assume that they will try to tire out there opponent.  

Now in the video, Tahu is attacked by three green skull spiders while he is talking to the protector.  The Green Skull Spiders found Tahu immediately after he landed (probably with the help of there vision powers) and quickly realized that he was a threat,  They attacked attacked by ambush, as is in there nature, thinking to overpower him while he was distracted by the protector.  Unfortunately, Tahu was much stronger than they expected.  Their powers could not help them defeat him (as the Blue Skull Spiders' could), not could it help them escape (as the Silver Skull Spiders' could).  They were used to beings much weaker than Tahu and simply miscalculated the amount of troops that they would need to take him down.

I don't see how the movie version can be canon. Don't they have organic tissue pulsating from their bodies?

Matoran are 15% organic but the sets only show the mechanical parts.  A while ago (I think back in 2005), Greg clarified the movie appearance (including the organic tissue) is canon (he said that only the Rahaga's helicopter blades and headlights are non-canon). 

Hasn't Grag said that the movie versions (first three movies) of the characters is the canon appearance; with the sets being styalized versios of them. This is how I always interpreted the Nuva hands (that piece was actually also used as Kopaka Mata's left hand).

Besides, the Mata sets had explicit hands in arms that did not hold weapons; the Toa Nuva all dual weilded there weapons. 

 

Except Tahu & Takanuva, who, thanks to Bionicle Stars, now have hands. (Tahu's can be explained by Adaptive Armor, but Takanuva? No idea... )

 

Didn't he shed the Adaptive Armour entirely ^{(as well as deNuvafying him)} to be able to use the Golden Armour?

 

The Adaptive Armor transformed into a version of his original armor with gaps for the Golden armor. 

 

To quote Faber's comment below the post on his blog:

 

"This was done at a very early stage in the design process. We did not know what the creatures would look like so I drew my impression of the Bahrag. I saw them spider like with the ability to carry Bohrok folded on their back. The same with the different stages of Bohrok it was my guess. The Toa line is made up of the mask then the Matoran, then the Turaga and then the Toa."

 

So then that begs the question - was Turaga initially supposed to come before Toa and the evolutionary route was switched upon the direction they took in 04?

 

-NotS

 

The Turaga being former Toa was planned from the beginning; the picture just looked better with them switched.  (And since the picture was accidentally used in an advertisement, this chande ended up helping hide the reveal about the Turaga at the end of 2003)

I assumed that the nature of them is that they will only work in those two forms. The great beings would probably do this so that they cant create anything too powerful. And remember, you can only use masks of power if you are a toa or turaga, and it will only work if it is worn as a mask (except the mask of elemental energy, but that's an odd one).

The Great Beings did not create the Kanoka, the Matoran did.  Before that a different process was used to create Kanohi.

As somebody else already mentioned this is already canon with the Kanoka Blade, but there is also the Devastator.

If a 156 (Ta, Enlarges)  and a 578 (Le, Regenerates) where merged in Ga-Metru, by a Po-Matoran, to create a Kanoka of Shielding, what properties would it have? Would the disk have the flight properties of a Ta, Le, Ga, or Po disk, or would it be a mix, and a mix of which? What would its power level be? Would it be the lowest value (6), the highest (8), or the average of the powers (7)?

I believe that it would be a disk's power would be a mix of all three powers but would default to the lowest power level. The disk of Time shows us that the flight properties would depend on who merges the disk.

I went with the Kaukau, because a Kadin isn't the only way for a Toa to fly.  Lihkan (who was on the same team), could fly with his weapons.
 

Remember that the Ba-Matoran were rarer than even the other secondary elements because an out of control ("glitched") Toa (or even Turaga, if he is clever with his limited powers) of gravity could threaten the Great Spirit Robot.  Given that the power of a Toa of plasma would also be a threat, I think it is logical to extend this limit to the Su-Matoran.  

Based on the masks of Melding Teridax and 2008 Takanuva, I would assume that the Avohkii kept it's light powers.  But keep in mind that if this is true, Tridax must have believed that an Avohkii was better for the shadow toa than than a weaker version of Krahkaan.  So, Is the Avohkii better for a Toa of Shadow?  Yes, it is.

1. The Toa would be able to control both Light and Shadow.
2. The Toa could use the masks ability to inspire trust against enemies, making them let there guard down.  Shadow beings (such as Makuta) have used deception before. 
3. The masks ability to detect Moral Light in others would allow the Toa to find targets more easily.

Remember, Tridax only captured alternate Takanuvas, all of whom wore the Avohkii, as opposed to going into other alternate universes with other Toa of Light who can access there Av-Matoran ability.  I find it unlikely that he would have done this if the mask would have turned into a weaker Krahkaan, as that would have been less useful.