N.S.M.8

Everyone said I was crazy, they said I was mad, INSANE; just like my idol Vezon.

 

BUT I KNEW!

 

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/10897535/highlight/true#M248601

Greg is officially as insane as Vezon...

Every visual depiction shows them as moons.

Every line of dialogue AND NARRATION refers to them as moons.

Basic physics (although Greg doesn't care bout this one) demands that they be moons.

Greg's explanation about us only seeing one side of each fragment (while not making much sense) only works if they are moons.

This is as big a retcon as him saying "Mata Nui never left the planet" 

It just makes no sense.

 

 

Here is my interpretation...

In 2003, Takanuva had awoken Mata Nui from his slumber.

2006, the Turaga found out that Mata Nui is dying, and it is up to the Toa Inika to find the Mask of Life to save Mata Nui.

2007, Matoro revived Mata Nui, then hooray. Mata Nui is not only awoken, but alive. 

 

(This is the part I am having trouble grasping...)

In 2008, Mata Nui needs to be awaken from this slumber (again???) from the Toa Nuva...WAIT WHAT?!?!? I'm confused! Did I miss something, or misinterpret something??? 

Can someone explain to me why there had to be an "excuse" for the Bionicle (Mata Nui involved) storyline to be continued in 2008+?

 

Because he WASN'T awoken in 2003.  In the second epilogue to Time Trap (which takes place after Takanuva defeats the Makuta) the narrator says:

 

The first step had been taken toward awakening the Great Spirit Mata Nui and restoring balance to the universe.

In Journey's End, Greg explained (not very well) that the planet could be reformed for 100,000 years, and that they launched the robot early so that it could collect data on other cultures as a secondary goal.

What bothers me is that the Makuta (especially Teridax) were created with great ambition so that they would take over that Matoran Universe and ally with Mata Nui (now in a second body) to fix the planet.  It was this ambition that caused him to NOT want to help Mata Nui repair Spherus Magna in the first place.  Why not just tell them their purpose?  

Now, their IS an explanation for this: the Makuta essence that possessed Brutaka implied that they did know, but merely forgot.  This could be attributed to Velika, saying that he "removed" this knowledge when he made everyone sapient.  


But if all you needed was someone to control the robot when Mata Nui leaves, why not just reuse Tren Krom? 

 

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-General/Chat-with-Greg-Farshtey/m-p/10850973/highlight/true#M248138

 

Hero Agori... is male. 

 

boo.

 

See, this is why I told you not to ask Greg!!  >   >   >

 

To be fair, Greg did proceed to say he knew next to nothing about the MLN campaign, so we can and should take his word with a grain of salt.

 

(But if we're going to be all "word of God" about this, I will admit that in Raid on Vulcanus, Gresh describes the Hero Agori with male pronouns. But again, I must implore readers to consider that Greg doesn't know what he's talking about.)

 

...

But if we're going to be all "word of God" about this, I will admit that in Raid on Vulcanus, Gresh describes the Hero Agori with male pronouns.  

Well, that's that.  Straight from Raid on Vulcanus, the Hero Agori is indisputably male.  

Why does everyone have a problem with a male character who is compassionate and humble?  I know we need more female characters, but I like this one as a male.  We don't get many male characters who talk their way through problems in an action story.  Bionicle in particular seems to have many male characters attack potential allies (Tahu, Kopaka and Takanuva come to mind) or make otherwise arrogant decisions. 

I feel like I am the only one NOT upset by this.

In regard to your question #2, he basically confirms that Matoran/MU inhabitants can drain power from organic Spherus Magna creatures like the fish we saw on Aqua Magna.

 

Wait well, if we look at it, the sapient species of SM are made out of the same stuff as the creatures, correct? Kind of like how humans and antilopes are made out of the relatively same mushy stuff inside?

 

So does that mean that MU inhabitants could possibly drain energy and eat other sapient species of SM?

 

Could this be why the GBs were so freaked out if Matoran Inhabitants developed sapience and came onto SM?

 

Oh dear...

Well humans posses the biological ability to digest other humans...

It's really the same idea, one sapient creature eating another.

 

 

This brings the question... Was the Avohkii even created in Dark Mirror ? We can't know for sure, and even if Takua was destined to be a Toa, he dies in DM, proving my point that Matoran destined to become Toa CAN die without completing their destinies

But he wasn't destined.

 

The great beings created Takua with the potential to become a toa in every universe, but only in some of them was he destined to transform. In the rest, his toa potential was unused.

As far as I am aware, in the Dark Mirror, Kojol never attacked Artakha, so the Avohkii was never removed. Takua was not needed as a Toa of Light, so destiny ensured that he only came in contact with an Avohkii that was already drained of its toa power, and didn't transform.

Quote right. Greg confirmed that destinies change in different universes, sonI assume "destiny" would be a subtle programming to ensure that every Matoran gets to do what is most beneficial to his or her universe.

 

Greg also said that the Great Beings did NOT create destiny and that they themselves are subject to it.  Remember, Energized Protodermis (which relies on destiny) functions on Spherus Manga, which was not created by the Great Beings.

This brings the question... Was the Avohkii even created in Dark Mirror ? We can't know for sure, and even if Takua was destined to be a Toa, he dies in DM, proving my point that Matoran destined to become Toa CAN die without completing their destinies 

But he wasn't destined.

The great beings created Takua with the potential to become a toa in every universe, but only in some of them was he destined to transform.  In the rest, his toa potential was unused.  

As far as I am aware, in the Dark Mirror, Kojol never attacked Artakha, so the Avohkii was never removed.  Takua was not needed as a Toa of Light, so destiny ensured that he only came in contact with an Avohkii that was already drained of its toa power, and didn't transform.

Nonsense. Marendar is the reason for destined Matoran not to become Toa, because Toa are what it was built to kill.

 

I don't think Marendar is any threat to the Agori whatsoever, or anyone who's not a Toa. After all, it was built with the intent of saving the Agori from tyrannical Toa. It would be counter-intuitive for it to go after Agori.

I was referring to to the possible Nui Stone powered Toa Velika.

 

Short answer: Apparently.

 

The destiny of a character can apparently differ from universe to universe.

It seems unlikely this is that kind of destiny, since as HTW said, those destined have some Toa Energy already inside them. Destiny about how, when, and maybe even why they become Toa could change, but it still seems like they would always be destined to be Toa, unless the timeline diverged at some point prior to their creation and for whatever reason they didn't get some Toa Energy.

 

But hey... maybe there are tons of Matoran out there who actually have Toa Power inside them, but they don't actually need to be Toa at the moment ?   Maybe there are even Matoran who had toa power inside them but were killed or something.

 

And now that everyone's gone to SM, is there still a reason for them to become Toa ? 

 

With Marendar running around, I think we need them more than ever.

And Velika is trying to kill Tuyet... who has the Nui Stone... and his Po-Matoran body has the potential to become a toa...

Agori, be very afraid.

According to the most recent Greg info on the subject, he can take it off, but he'd lose the powers.

Which contradicts earlier quotes...

Is it a retcon, or simple forgetfulness?

The Brotherhood of Makuta did not practice execution by disintegration.

 

 

 

2. This is a record-keeping question for BS01. Our lists have a lot of miscellaneous Toa, Matoran, etc. who were killed by the Brotherhood of Makuta (for example, the Nynrah Ghosts who sabotaged the Fohrok, and various Toa they’ve killed). The Red Star reveal causes me to wonder: did the Brotherhood usually carry out execution by disintegration, thus meaning the characters killed by them are deceased and not revived? Or were they less thorough?

2) Less thorough. Once you have been killed by a Makuta, it is not an experience you want to repeat, so you tend to be more circumspect

 

I read this as saying that the brotherhood didn't know about the red star, and that anyone revived was to scared to reveal their survival to the brotherhood.

 

 

How would Tuyet have gotten into the Codrex if the Energy Storms in Karda-Nui would have still been raging due to Mata-Nui still being awake and running?

Olmak? She had one, after all.

 

 

The Codrex doesn't protect the beings inside, only the equipment.  The Canisters protected the Toa (perhaps using the intangibility function).  

If she used an Olmak, she would have been incinerated.  

 

Transparent Kaukau and Rau exist, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for a character to have a transparent Miru... just a little impractical, since it already has eyeholes.

Technically the transparent Rau was supposed to portray the bug like eyes of the Nui-Rama. Same with the Tarakava and the Nui-Jaga, they incorporated the masks into their design to make it fun to knock them off, but canon-wise I'm quite sure that they weren't real masks. The only real ones were the masks the Muaka and Kane-Ra sets had (and maybe the Manas, but that's debatable...

 

In the Mata Nui Online Game, the Tarakava's mask is removed by Gali.

In Chronicles 4, Tahu is suprised that the Rahi Nui serves Makuta but wears no mask.  This implies that every rahi that they fought in 2001 (including the Nui-Rama and the Nui-Jaga) wore an infected mask.

That being said, as far as I know, you are correct in saying that the Kanohi represented parts of the rahis' design, not masks that cover their faces.

If I couldn't see him, I would like to ask Tren Krom a few questions.  He is one of the most interesting characters.  

If I had to look at the character, then I would not want to meet someone who can destroy your sanity just by making you look at him.  In that case, I would like to speak to Turaga Nuju, providing that there is someone to translate his speech.

If THAT isn't the case, then I would want to speak to Velika.

I'm fairly sure it was ment to be an 'active' Kanohi Miru. All glowy and stuff like Takanuvas trans-glitter mask.

I was going to say exactly this. 

 

I think perhaps if the Mata canisters were launched while in space, they would simply fly through space to Kini Nui (or its equivalent beneath the camoflauge island), dock there, and drop the Toa into Mangaia so they could continue to Metru Nui.

Why? Wouldn't it be more efficient to go right to Metru Nui? (If in space.) There's nothing they would need to be doing at the Mangaia so far as I recall.

 

If they went into space, Mangaia would be the most efficient way back into the robot.  (unless there is another path besides Mangaia or the Maze of Shadows that I am forgetting)

Although I still am not sure why they need to leave the robot at all.  My only theory is that sending the canisters through space is more efficient than sending them through passageways inside the robot (we know that the canisters can protect the toa from the energy storms).  

 

Destiny of every living being thing set in stone. Immutable and eternal.

Actually BS01 states that a being's destiny can alter over the course of their life.

 

BS01 is wrong, then.

Spherus Magna, by real-life standards, is an impossibly large planet.  The planet would collapse under it's own weight.

Energized Protodermis does not follow real life physics, and has strange, destiny-based transforming powers.  (it does whatever Greg wants it to do)  It has been shown stabilizing the Mata Nui robot's power source by "continuously transforming it".

I always assumed that the Agori and Glatorian were simply mining the stuff in a processes similar to how we drill for oil and that when they removed enough of it, it stopped "transforming" the planet's core, causing the planet to explode.

Does it make any scientific sense? No.
Does it make sense in Bionicle Physics? Yes.

 

Real life physics don't apply in BIONICLE, unless scientists discovered Protodermis yesterday and I wasn't told about it. - Greg Farshtey

The key word in science fiction is fiction, not science.  That being said, let's give Bionicle one exception to science and see if everything else makes sense. Let's consider protodermis to be this "miracle exception."

It seems that protodermis is different from normal matter on a subatomic level.  Protons and neutrons are hadrons, particles composed of quarks held together by the strong force.  If the atoms in protodermic matter was composed of hadrons other than protons and neutrons (in the same way that antimatter atoms replace protons with anti-protons and electrons with positrons), then we could have protodermic versions of every element on the periodic table, and thus every molecule that can be made of ordinary matter.  Given that we have seen protodermic versions of many common substances (such as water), this seems to me to be the most likely scenario.

This Protodermic matter (protodermis), can have as many differences from regular matter as the author wants as long as it kept consistent.  

I'm sorry; BioSector01 lists him as a servant of the brotherhood.

BS01 is referring to a plant named after Karzahni.

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Karzahni_(Plant)

Karzahni did not serve the Brotherhood of Makuta.  He should be moved to a category (along with Artakha).
Umbra did truly not serve the Order, he simply had similar goals.  The Order labeled him as a servant of the organization in their arrogance.  (Mata Nui help the Order member who tries to take the Ignika)

Will other names be added later?

 

Okay, thanks for saying so. I don't have time to look into it further though, but I'd like to see the quote. I did look everywhere on BS01 I could think of and found no confirmation. I did find a denial of it on the timeline page though:

 

The Toa Metru hide Great and Noble Kanohi all over Mata Nui.

 

I found this: 

 

Interesting. So, on Mata Nui, how did they know? This is another thing I wondered in the MOL, that I forgot to say. When the Avhokii was revealed, Takua (or Jaller, don't remember which), said "A Great Kanohi Mask:" How did he know it was a Great one?

 

4) Simple. No masks were being made on Mata Nui. The only masks they had were the Great Masks that had been hidden, the Noble Masks that Makuta had spirited away, and the Matoran masks. So it was reasonable to assume any mask you found was not a Matoran mask.

 

6: The Turaga brought the kanohi to Mata Nui, correct? Now great and noble masks were scattered and hidden, but when the noble masks were found the toa gave them to the turaga. Now why in the name of mata nui would the Turaga want to hide them if they were only gonna get them back? Surely finding the great masks would have been challenge enough for the toa, and would have proven their worth?

 

6) The Turaga didn't hide the Noble Masks. Those were stolen and hidden by Rahi.

 

I'm not finding any denials of this later...

Would someone with the desire and the ability to update BS01 please do so?

http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Timeline/The_Great_Rescue

 

 

 

The only thing that I can say to respond to this is the fact that in MNOG there is the statement made by, I believe, several Matoran speaking of "ancient" carvers who made certain statues and such throughout Mata Nui. This is a laughable plot hole seeing as there was no original inhabitants before the Matoran, they being originated from Metru Nui. That could incite some sort of plan to do something else with the story, or that the makers of the game had not gotten in on what LEGO was going to do with Bionicle after the Mata Nui portion of the story. 

 

It would help if you could specify the words of these statements and/or who they are spoken by. I know the game pretty well and I can't think of anything like them.

 

And the makers did know or at least have some idea about Bionicle stuff beyond the Mata Nui arc. Among the telescope imagery both the face of the giant robot and the Ignika design can be found, the first of which is also hinted at with the 'impenetrable rock layer' in Onu-Koro.

 

Don't quote me on this, I was literally just editing some files in MNOG, but I believe the tradesman at the edge of po-wahi says it when you ask him about the quarry.

 

 

He does indeed mention "the Path of Prophecies, which the ancient carvers made." I'm fairly sure that's the head statues in front of Po-Koro's entrance. In the first Bohrok episode they're credited as Hafu's work.

 

BS01 confirms this.  

 

 

The Path of Prophecies was a road flanked by carvings, leading to the village of Po-Koro on the island of Mata Nui.

 

The Path of Prophecies was created by the Po-Matoran Carver Hafu soon after the Matoran established the village of Po-Koro. 

They were carved very early on, so they would be considered ancient.

As far as I know that is only unfounded speculation. What we know is that the Toa Metru "hid the masks", and the Toa Mata "collected the masks." And they were not stated to be stolen at the same time as the Toa Stones (I could be wrong... but I haven't found such a statement yet). It's possible they were stolen at any point during the thousand years, but we don't have direct evidence for it as far as I know.

 

So, in the absence of confirmation, it's best to go with the presumption that they only had one mask per Turaga until the Mata collected others. You're right though that it doesn't really change things much either way.

I may be remembering this wrong, but I thought that Greg confirmed that the Toa Metru hid the Great Masks and kept the noble ones to use as Turaga.

 

 

What is the actual quote for the "summons" itself?

 

"I am DONE running. Hahli, summon the Matoran."

 

"It's done."