Archon~

 

 

Again, dose it matter what OTHER artists do? OP?

 

Yes, it does. Because they're misrepresenting the franchise. And cultural ignorance is no excuse.

 

You guys would be mad if an artist/writer had a poor representation of women, right? So why let whitewashing slide? They're both bad.

 

BZP tears apart any artist who dares to draw "pinup" style Bionicle art. But yet you guy say nothing when it comes to this kind of stuff. That's a big double standard.

 

You're basically saying "I care about equal rights of all people...as long as you're white".

 

A franchise that was produced by the Danes, with some names based off of the Maori language, built into a sci-fi world filled with powerful masks and disks, shapeshifting monsters, and a planet-sized robot containing it all; a franchise which was then sent out into the world for people of all cultures and nationalities to enjoy.

 

It's not just for you. 

 

 

Look at it like this, as the same concept does apply:

 

BIONICLE is based off of more than just Polynesian culture.

 

Sailor, I'm still surprised that you are still talking about this when multiple members bave pointed out multiple times how much Bionicle actually varies, and that the whole Maori thing is only a small part of it that was all but forgotten later on, unsurprising really when your story takes place insde a mechanoid that is as tall as the Earth's Diameter.

I honestly find your arguments somewhat racist, and as much as I try to avoid using this word, whinny. It seems that you're trying to shove your point of view down someone's throat. I hate that, especially when art is the topic as it's a personal part of the artist and what you're asking is for artists to do is to represent a part of you, as you're the only one that feels this way, in their art.

Also, regarding the pinup thing, remember that BZP is PG13, much to my personal discontent, and pinup art is not considered appropriate at that age level.

Realistically, if they got possesed by Krana, eventually the rest of the island would be as well.

Then Makuta would have to save all of them, since after all he did need the Mata to awake Mata Nui and Inika to get the Ignika.

So yeah. Makuta would make up some lie, the Toa would eventually buy it maybe, and then they would rebel, etc, etc.

 

 

"What happened to the Vahi" isn't a plot hole. Voporak has it from 2008 and still does.

Well, what did Greg intend to happen to it? Or did Greg even have a plan, and just figured he'd get to it later?

The other day, I asked him what happened to all the beings in the GB's fortress and he just said he didn't plan to kill then off.

So the story is literally a frozen cliffhanger.

That's why new miniscule information is being added about past unknown facts.

@Banana Gunz: Yes, I do agree that it could be messy if that happens, however if we try tonspread the polls hopefully it won't. When we run into an issue like that, we'll figure out what to do from there, but I think for now, what we have (after I make some corrections people mentioned ), will suffice as most of community seems to be split 30:70 or something around there.

Well, Vakama once

into Molten Protodermis and emerged just fine, and Jaller once considered entering the lava to recover the Ignika. I'd say they have a temporary resistance to lava/molten Protodermis. Of course, We don't know if there are actual differences between Matoran and Toa armor.

 

Could Akamai control Lava fully?

 

We know he could create it using a combination of his powers, so, given how Elemental Powers generally work, I'd say yes.

Anything useful to contribute Ballom?

I believe that the mask controls the spiders, and whoever controls it, controls the spiders. Similarly to The Heart of Visorak!

Also, Webs? Wat.

When'd that happen?

I would assume that the original Boxor would be a little bit meshed up in colors, simply due to the materials available and emergency of the situation?

That makes me wonder, were all the Boxor actually black, or were they just a mix of colors from whatever Bohrok were used? Maybe they were a little more rainbow at first, them painted black?? Hmm

I'm thinking about going to Greg and asking him this, however I wanna see what you guys think about it first.

As we know, Helryx studied Ce-Matoran to find out how to protect her agents' minds from mental assaults. She did this successfully as we know.

This makes me wonder, would it possible for her/someone to study other Matoran types and learn how their inactive powers work and utilize them? I feel it would be possible, especially since it was done with Ce-Matoran. The only problem I would see is Av-Matoran, but then again Roodaka managed to tap into a "polarized" element that she ws not naturally affiliated with?

Thoughts???

I believe when the Inika encountered Vezon, and sunk him into the lava, Jaller volunteered to seim into the lava and get the mask. He said something along the lines of I'll be able to last down there a little bit longer than you, but I will die eventually. So I'm guessing while normal Matoran have a heat resistence of 1, Ta-Matoran would have a resistance of 2.5-3, maybe? That's how I see it at least.

My LMB username is PointlessQuestions, which, now that I think about it, doesn't accurately reflect my views towards canonization. :/

 

I'd feel frustrated if I had to post a new topic every time I wanted to ask a question on the LMB thread. Could we set up a pinned thread where people can propose and discuss new questions?

Well, the posting of a new topic only applies if you want to attempt to make something canon. Not other LMB questions.

Although, having a topic where we could suggestions and clarify simpler things would be much better. I'm just afraid that it would get very cluttered and messy. Maybe post it in the general topic first and then make new discussion topic if the issue isn't settled and requires further discussion? 

 

Fair enough. To be clear, they bring us the case, we make a decision, and then they take that out and apply it? Our involvement as a community ends there? Just to clarify that. 

Probably. If they ignore our decision and go do their own thing, then we reserve the right not to put it on BS01 and/or discuss it as canon here, as applicable - especially if it contradicts existing canon. 

 

But other than that, our community involvement would end there, yes. 

 

I don't think I'll be making too many suggestions, but my LMB handle is fishers64.

 

Mine is Calen872. I probably won't be asking much, but that's not to say I never will.

And the point of having many members give their LMB usernames is to avoid bias, so that the member who initially suggests the potential canon idea doesn't present the idea to Greg, but rather have a neutral party do it, submitting all the cumulated facts here instead of (potenitally) manipulating their wording to make the idea seem more reasonable than it actually would be. Tis all about fairness.     

It just means that it coincides with the Principles. Nothing else. The ones that are Unapproved simply mean that they didn't fulfill all the requirements.

I was going to use Verified and Unverified originally, but yeah.

So what this is saying is that since I am a member of BZP, I am not allowed to go on the LMB because I never made a discussion topic about it?

 

Otherwise I agree on most of the stuff presented here.

No one's saying that you can't go on there and talk about existing stuff and all, but it rather affects the canonizing aspect of those talks, since after all, if something were easily to be made canon other fans should input whether they want that as a part of the story or no.

Besidea, since you're one of the members who has an LMB account, you could potentially present the info to the topic.

That reminds me, all members that would like to present an idea now and then (rotations will be included to discourage "fame seeking"), please put your LMB names in the topic so I can add you to the first post!

Also, if anyone wants to make banners or whatever to encourage voting next time we have a poll, post it here too so I can add that to the main post. However, please no overly biased ones (aka, stay away from political advertising for the sake of being civil).

When I first got into Bionicle i thought Lewa had Jungle powers. I thought this up until 2003.

When I flund out he was Air, I was very disappointed.

Ironically, my inner child is reliving those feelings.

I will look over it once again once finals are done at my school and make sure it looks all nice and stuff and correct some mishaps like that.

Thanks for pointing it out. It'd be cool if I get some more feedback on anything y'all would like to add/edit.

I think Takanuva would figure that out along with the Ussanui plans and other stuff that he just had locked up in his noggin you know?

Interesting thing about him and Inika is that all 7 Toa were created into being with some prior knowledge of the universe, be it that it was locked away in their head, or uncovered by organic masks.

Just an observation that last part haha

I want to say that it would only work as masks. Perhaps the magnetic connection that exists between Matoran faces and masks triggers the power? Maybe the blade only works when a Toa/Matoran would use the blade or Kanoka due to the (apparent) magnetization in Mu Being hands? There's another topic on here addressing that.

Introduction

Let's face something: Greg Farshtey is allowing fans to, to some extent, contribute to the Gen1 Bionicle Universe by canonizing minor details that were left untold in the story (ex. Kanohi of various characters such as the Toa Cordak, Makuta of Stelt, Tridax, landscapes, creators of certain Rahi, etc.).

I would also like to point out for those who don't know that fan canonizations are the only way to continue the Gen1 Bionicle worldbuilding and story as Lego has no interest in opening that file again and have given Greg authorization to varify some minor issues.

I doubt that will change anytime soon, and with the amount of minor details that are left unsaid in the story, but can be filled up, I came to the conclusion that some general guidelines for fan canonization are needed, especially on BZP where the members are allowed to vote on these issues.

That being fact, I have taken into account what everyone in the S&T Forum has said regarding the issue, and I have attempted to create the GAFCP, in order to better the overall structure, quality, and fairness of the inevitable fan canonization polls, as well as BZP member action on LMB. While I have tried to consider everyone's input on the issue and make this fair for everyone, I encourage suggestions and questions regarding the GAFCP, and please feel free to post and discuss the Principles in this topic.

In order to prevent rampant canonization, I believe that certain are to be set in order, and I hope that the community will accept this as common practice and join me in building these statures.

With that, I am pleased to present to you...

~  Generally Accepted Fan Canonization Principles  ~

Greg Farshtey Disclaimers

Although I cannot speak in the name of Mr. Farshtey, I will offer disclosures he has added regarding the more lenient fan canonization era:

·         Information that came first, overrides any present information stated by Mr. Farshtey, if present information is contrary to what has been stated in the past.​

Ratification: Due to large amounts of "retcon", Greg stated the above in his LMB topic (link will be provided soon). Since the Bionicle story is vast and complex and has ended several years ago, it is reasonable to understand that a man with a job, other projects, and a child to take care of will forget minor details of the story that he has confirmed a while back. Luckily, BS01 offers an extensive database for reference.

·         Greg Farshtey finds it offensive when fans consider him to "not care about the story", and in fact cares deeply

Ratification: In a recent quote (link will be provided soon), Mr. Farshtey has stated that he finds it offensive when fans accuse him of not caring for the Gen1 Bionicle story, and assures fans that he in fact does due to the fact that he spent a decade writhing for Bionicle

·         The reason Greg answers questions on LMB instead of coming up with stuff on his own is simply due to lack of time

Ratification: Coming up with new material takes time, and due to prior more important obligations, Mr. Farshtey cannot take time to do this, but can answer questions posed by fans once in a while. This was also stated on LMB (link will be provided soon).

Mediums By Which Canonization is Achieved (Currently)

There are two primary ways in which canonization is achieved as of 2014. Both are done through the "Ask Me Anything" topic on the Lego Message Boards with authorization from Greg Farshtey, the writer behind most of Gen1 Bionicle's story.

·         Lego Message Board with BZP Discussion

·         Lego Message Board with BZP Intensive Polling and Discussion

In this document, I will address some principles for both of these mediums, and they are both related to BZPower discussion, or at least should be since some of the most involved and knowledgeable fans are located on this forum.

Principles Regarding Achieving Canonization Through the Lego Message Boards and BZP Discussion

• Research Your Issue Before Asking Greg Anything to Potentially Canonize Anything

This should be fairly self-explanatory. Pursue valid 2^nd hand sources and refer to the books/ comics/ movies if you need a reminder on an issue.

• ​​​Carefully Develop Your Idea

Consider how your idea might affect other canon events in the storyline. Does it make sense? Does it conflict with anything? Give it some overall thought.

• Present Your Idea to BZP’s S&T Forum as a Topic

Do this to get member input. Provide Info you found in your argument. You might have missed something that they know about! Let the community decide what the final passage for presentation will be as this is a community project. Some members might like what you have, others might not.

• Hold a Poll to See if People Would Like to See Your Idea Canon

Again, since this is a community project and members may or may not like what you have to present, make sure to get the input of as much of the community as possible. Don’t forget to advertise the poll in your signatures in order to get more votes! Invite members from other websites to join BZP and vote on the issue as well. The option that has a higher number will be the one we should act on. The polls will be open for 12 days.

• Present The Idea to Greg Farshtey on LMB

If YES is what the community voted on, in majority, even a slim one, a representative from BZP should forward the summarized argument to Greg and await his results. This member will also report back any problems Greg might have found to see if we can ratify them.

• Accepting Into Canon

If all of the above are done, and Greg decides that it’s okay to include said argument/idea into canon, then so will be done.

Principles Regarding Achieving Canonization Through the Lego Message Boads & BZP Polling & Discussion

• Research Unknown Issue Before Asking Greg Anything to Potentially Canonize Anything

This should be fairly self-explanatory. Pursue valid 2^nd hand sources and refer to the books/ comics/ movies if you need a reminder on an issue.

• Carefully Develop Your Idea

Consider how your idea might affect other canon events in the storyline. Does it make sense? Does it conflict with anything? Give it some overall thought, especially if the poll applies to issues where elements, masks, geography, tools/weapons are at stake.

• Present Your Idea to BZP’s S&T Forum as a Topic

Do this to get member input. Provide info you found in your argument. You might have missed something that they know about! Let the community decide what the final passage for presentation will be as this is a community project. Some members might like what you have, others might not.

• Hold a Poll to See if People Would Like to See Your Idea Canon

Again, since this is a community project and members may or may not like what you have to present, make sure to get the input of as much of the community as possible. Don’t forget to advertise the poll in your signatures in order to get more votes! Invite members from other websites to join BZP and vote on the issue as well. The option that has a higher number will be the one we should act on. The polls will be open for 12 days.

The difference between the poll in the previous section and this one lies in the fact that polls of this nature will have one extra question other than the “Yes or No” question. The extra question will list options that members can pick and choose from. These options will be carefully looked over by other members and any potential disagreements should be presented to Greg as if they were a separate issue. AKA Consult fellow members before submitting a question to Greg right away.

• Present The Idea to Greg Farshtey on LMB

If YES is what the community voted on, in majority, even a slim one, a representative from BZP should forward the decided choice to Greg and await his results. This member will also report back any problems Greg might have found to see if we can ratify them, and perhaps recall and restart the poll.

• Accepting Into Canon

If all of the above are done, and Greg decides that it’s okay to include said argument/idea into canon, then so will be done.

Final Disclaimer

This is a community project. This is but a first draft. The goal of these suggested guidelines is to respect everyone’s (or as many people that we can reach) voices and ensure fair future canonization of the Story and Toyline we all know and love.

If you notice spelling grammars, phrasing errors, have ideas to add, feel free to PM me or post in this topic.

Personal Disclaimer:

I hope this truly becomes a community project and document we strive to adhere to. This is a draft I created and that I think we can build on.

Canonization shouldn’t be a pursuit for glory, nor a pursuit to leave one’s mark, but rather a pursuit to better the story we all love, and grew up with.

As a minority of “Bionicle Experts”, so to say, we are quite knowledgeable regarding the subject, and if we attempt to control the unstoppable canonization that will take place, we may yield better results to be added to the story we all love.

Big thanks to bonesiii for approving this.

Another thing I noticed. If Takanuva and Makuta are playing Kohlii with Energized Protodermis, then why is it that when Makuta was hit nothing happened to him.

I thought all Matoran had a minor magnetic hand power. 

 

As for Makuta, I want to say that such a small amount of the stuff wouldn't be enough to transform the entire armored beast. Or maybe he was destined to transform into that white-black blur thing and back into himself.

Remember that both Takanuva's and Makuta's staves turned EPE (along with the opposite element) into their respective element when flung at the opponent.

 

It rather foreshadowed the Mata Nui Makuta relationship, no?

I don't think it really foreshadowed it, since we already knew what happened between them but it definitely did help to reinforce it (which any good side-plot should do). Honestly, I was pretty disappointed we never got to see Karzahni have a showdown with Artakha. 

 

-NotS

 

I meant more along of lines that it was a foreshadowing to the Matoran Universe and what would eventually happen to it, you know with Teridax rebeling and all that.

Artistic license nothing more.

No you won't. YOU won't have it anything. However the COMMUNITY will agree when the poll should be locked down. I personaly say 3 weeks or a month.

Remember, just because you started this movement of canonization along with this topic, it doesn't give you the right to run rampant through it and be the voice of people who actually might agree and are ok with things that you, and I and many others, are lobbying for.

 

I would say the parallels are somewhat accurate. The idea is that "bad" Matoran (broken or poor workers) get sent to the netherworld, Karzahni, and the "good" Matoran (excellent workers) are permitted to enter the exclusive location of Artakha. Certainly when we first learned about them, that was the impression we were supposed to draw.

However, it ended up being a lot more nuanced, which is much appreciated. Karzahni turned out to be "broken" himself (mentally), and Karzahni the location was revealed to have initially been a place for repair, so that everybody could be more productive to society. Artakha, meanwhile, turned out to be enigmatic and aloof, rather than benevolent and helpful (although his is ultimately helpful, so that's something) and the "good" Matoran end up building and building and then tearing down and building again with no other point to their lives. It's all shades of grey.

 

Yeah, I actually really liked that. 

 

I also did like how Karzahni and Artakha also reflected Mata Nui and Makuta's relationship as well, in a sense. 

 

-NotS

Boidoh grow up and stop trying to flame up every topic you see with your complaints.

And no it won't since it's a contest between fan stories.

The Bionicle story draws its core mainly from different cultures of the world, including Maori, Roman, "urban", etc. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are some Abrahamic Religions parallels in the story. The comparisson you're making can be applied to several characters, for example: is Mata Nui/ Artakha God, is Makuta the Devil, is Matoro Jesus, is Nidhiki Judas, are the Makuta fallen angels, is Vakama moses (since he led Matoran to a new land), is alt Takanuva moses (since he led MU pop to new land in the Kingdom), are the Toa Mata Templars, and so on and so on.

You can draw multiple parallels, but these simply have similar themes, as do many other works, but it doesn't mean the story was necessarily inspired by them.